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Politics: Left, Right, and Center National, state, regional, and local politics. Who's doing what to whom, and what you can do about it. How-to-get-action messages are encouraged. "How the government fucked up my life" stories are encouraged. Sharing new methods for cheating on taxes is encouraged. Sample "letters to congresscritters" are encouraged. Apathy and "I can't do anything" posts are discouraged. Left, right, centrist, or any other form of political-economic systems are all up for discussion. Be prepared to defend yourself, or at least have a good line of bullshit ready. Extensive quoting of economists and philosophers is frowned upon. We want to hear what YOU have to say, not what some constipated, impotent, dead guy dreamt up while suffering from the DT's over a hundred years ago thought.

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  #1   Add DarkMage35 to your ignore list  
Old 2008-02-06, 05:56
DarkMage35 DarkMage35 is offline
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Default Why do we vote on candidates?

If you mention a new candidate to a sane person, they will immediately ask "Whats his/her's stance of <issue>?". People dont really vote for candidates, they vote for their stances on issues that concern them.

So why do we have reps intertwined with issues like we do? Why not vote on the decisions themselves and then elect someone to carry them out? Seems like it would have far less leeway for corruption and far less lesser-of-two-evils going on to me.
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  #2   Add illuminatikiller to your ignore list  
Old 2008-02-06, 06:35
illuminatikiller illuminatikiller is offline
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North Dakota
Default Re: Why do we vote on candidates?

That would be cool. You should write up an amendment to the Constitution and get a petition going.
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  #3   Add DarkMage35 to your ignore list  
Old 2008-02-06, 06:38
DarkMage35 DarkMage35 is offline
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Default Re: Why do we vote on candidates?

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Originally Posted by illuminatikiller View Post
That would be cool. You should write up an amendment to the Constitution and get a petition going.
Maybe I should, but theres this whole being-nowhere-near-to-america-and-being-grateful-about-that thing I have going on that I might have to get past first.
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  #4   Add illuminatikiller to your ignore list  
Old 2008-02-06, 07:20
illuminatikiller illuminatikiller is offline
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Thumbs up Re: Why do we vote on candidates?

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Originally Posted by DarkMage35 View Post
Maybe I should, but theres this whole being-nowhere-near-to-america-and-being-grateful-about-that thing I have going on that I might have to get past first.
We can't solve our own problems, so maybe we need an outisder to do it for us. You seem like the right person. If you read the Constitution once you should have a better understanding of it than most of our government employees, so you'll be qualified to write an amendment.
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  #5   Add TheMessiahComplex to your ignore list  
Old 2008-02-06, 18:55
TheMessiahComplex TheMessiahComplex is online now
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Some bar in Jersey
Default Re: Why do we vote on candidates?

Well the problem is they handle way more stuff than the major issues everyone likes to talk about and trying to allow everyone to vote on everything would be cumbersome at best. I'd like to see more stuff done by referendum but I think at this point it's best reserved to a local level.
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  #6   Add DarkMage35 to your ignore list  
Old 2008-02-07, 01:37
DarkMage35 DarkMage35 is offline
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Default Re: Why do we vote on candidates?

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Originally Posted by TheMessiahComplex View Post
Well the problem is they handle way more stuff than the major issues everyone likes to talk about and trying to allow everyone to vote on everything would be cumbersome at best. I'd like to see more stuff done by referendum but I think at this point it's best reserved to a local level.
Everyone says thats a problem, yet Ive never seen any proof of it.
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  #7   Add MR.Kitty55 to your ignore list  
Old 2008-02-07, 02:58
MR.Kitty55 MR.Kitty55 is offline
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Lightbulb Re: Why do we vote on candidates?

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Originally Posted by DarkMage35 View Post
So why do we have reps intertwined with issues like we do? Why not vote on the decisions themselves and then elect someone to carry them out? Seems like it would have far less leeway for corruption and far less lesser-of-two-evils going on to me.
1.) That would be an impossible guarantee, when certain events happen (9/11) you can't always rely on the ideas you chose to support (like maybe being anti-war).

2.) What would happen if that person failed to carry out those "decisions", impeachment? That would create massive upheval if we had to put every President on trial. I mean, how else would you prevent Presidents from upholding the ideas they voted on? Thats not a rhetorical question, I'm sure there is an answer but I can't think of it lol, maybe congressional oversight? But that would fuck up the balance of power...
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Old 2008-02-07, 03:21
DarkMage35 DarkMage35 is offline
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Default Re: Why do we vote on candidates?

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Originally Posted by MR.Kitty55 View Post
1.) That would be an impossible guarantee, when certain events happen (9/11) you can't always rely on the ideas you chose to support (like maybe being anti-war).

2.) What would happen if that person failed to carry out those "decisions", impeachment? That would create massive upheval if we had to put every President on trial. I mean, how else would you prevent Presidents from upholding the ideas they voted on? Thats not a rhetorical question, I'm sure there is an answer but I can't think of it lol, maybe congressional oversight? But that would fuck up the balance of power...
1.) You do of course realise that the REASONABLE response to 9/11 wouldve been to change planes so that you cant get from the passenger part to the pilot part while in flight? And perhaps to reign in imperialism somewhat? If you really insist, a referendum sounds perfectly reasonable before declaring war.

2.) If the person fails to do their job, there is clear evidence that they should be "fired".
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  #9   Add moonmeister to your ignore list  
Old 2008-02-07, 03:30
moonmeister moonmeister is offline
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Tycho City, Luna
Default Re: Why do we vote on candidates?

Since when do the rich & powerful care for more than the appearance of the People's power to vote on policies? Since when do most people have much interest learning about the actual issues?

When there are 30 or 40 competing issues going on: should people vote for each issue separately or 3 & 4 at a time?

Last edited by moonmeister : 2008-02-07 at 03:37.
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  #10   Add MR.Kitty55 to your ignore list  
Old 2008-02-07, 03:35
MR.Kitty55 MR.Kitty55 is offline
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Unhappy Re: Why do we vote on candidates?

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Originally Posted by DarkMage35 View Post
1.) You do of course realise that the REASONABLE response to 9/11 wouldve been to change planes so that you cant get from the passenger part to the pilot part while in flight? And perhaps to reign in imperialism somewhat? If you really insist, a referendum sounds perfectly reasonable before declaring war.
Whatever, my point was simply that certain events arise that require Presidents to change their policies (i.e. the Great Depression, WW II, 9/11 and so on). So it is unreasonable to have a guarentee he won't change the agenda, which is why we vote on people with ideas and not ideas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkMage35 View Post
2.) If the person fails to do their job, there is clear evidence that they should be "fired".
Yeah...But firing the President causes ALOT of problems, this is why Nixon was never indicted, it just brings alot of unnecessary social upheaval that isn't good for the country. So unless you come up with a better solution then this won't work. We can't go around "firing" a President when he raises taxes after promising not to 8 months ago...
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This thread continued for 2 pages in the real archive, 15 posts total - only page 1 survived here.
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