An old and possibly tired subject for most of you, I bet, I still would like to discuss the side of marijuana for self-development/improvement, and question weather it is useful in this area.

Joan Bello, author of The Benefits of Marijuana, says that the "regular" (daily) use of marijuana leads to the individual to realize and develop their true values, in other words, cut the crap of what you think you'd like to do, or what others are telling to do, and pick what you truly want to do and systematically work towards it.

Based on your experience, would you say this is true?

She also discusses the possibilities of a higher consciousness, centered on the "now". I agree, there may be a possibility of this, however, I only experience this "higher consciousness" when I'm high and it goes away when I'm not, which creates two separate modes of thinking conflicting with each other, being less productive than if I were either high all the time or not high at all.

From what I've experienced I can draw two conclusions,

1) A regular use of marijuana is only positive in helping one figure out their values but not in helping them realize them.

2) It can be interesting on what knowledge can be learned from a separate perspective of being high but the only way to get the true value out of it would be to record ones thoughts in the state and realize them when sober.

Your thoughts?

Good points. Whenever I got high I would start feeling like a child again and feel all these emotions that I hadn't felt since childhood. I used to smoke all the time for about a year. Your first point is really valid because though I learned a lot about myself and my relationship to the reality around me I was never able to realise those insights into anything practical. I was basically stoned all the time, reading science fiction books and daydreaming all the time. Academically I went from an A grade student to a failure over the year. That's why since last week I quit smoking pot till I get my life back in order. Pot showed me a lot of things but it was also making it hard to implement the decisions I made based on insights I got while high.

I used to think as long as I used weed 'responsibly' I would be okay but it didn't turn out that way and I wasted a whole year of my life which I'm now trying to make right by studying day and night without being stoned all the time.

... the "regular" (daily) use of marijuana leads to the individual to realize and develop their true values, in other words, cut the crap of what you think you'd like to do, or what others are telling to do, and pick what you truly want to do and systematically work towards it.

Based on your experience, would you say this is true?

In ways. I mean, I only really have a general idea of what I want to do career-wise. But that general idea is based on what I find important and how I want to live life.

How helpful is it for figuring out how I want to live my life? Figuring out what I really enjoy, what really matters in life and has true value? I think its great, but with all things relating to drugs/entheogens, depends on the user to. You need to think about things, mull them over and actually use the high as a tool. People can also just get high to avoid thinking about those matters, and that can have a great negative impact on their life's.

Your thoughts?

I think anything else I would add was already covered in what I said above, but go ahead and mention anything you want to talk about.

What the fuck is up w/ people needing to justify their drug use?

If you really were not insecure about using drugs, you would not need to find bullshit reasons to justify getting high.

We all like drugs because we like getting high, simple as that.

I didn't read what you had to say but I'm sure it had something to do w/ increased creativity or w/e.

All that is already known and goes along w/ the effects of marijuana.

Don't justify your drug use for society, dude.

Don't justify your drug use for society, dude.

This is very true.

We all like drugs because we like getting high, simple as that.

Yes. But recreation is not at all the only reason people use drugs. Opiates also kill pain, amps focus your attention, psychedelics teach people about life and reality, etc, etc.

Some people are not so dedicated to material hedonism, and are actually interested in aspects of these drugs which go beyond the expereince of physical and mental bliss.

I didn't read what you had to say

And predictably so.

Pleasure is not the only purpose of drug use, or life, dude.

This is very true.



Yes. But recreation is not at all the only reason people use drugs. Opiates also kill pain, amps focus your attention, psychedelics teach people about life and reality, etc, etc.

Some people are not so dedicated to material hedonism, and are actually interested in aspects of these drugs which go beyond the expereince of physical and mental bliss.


Ok, that makes sence, and I agree because I do not necessarily take drugs just to get "fucked up" but for the reasons you listed also. I just think OP is trying to justify his use instead of accepting himself for who he is (a drug user).

I just think OP is trying to justify his use instead of accepting himself for who he is (a drug user).

Perhaps he is. But even if thats true, its not a matter for us to waste too much of our concern on. If all he is doing right now is trying to justify a desire for pleasure, he is still looking into other benefits which go beyond that, and may eventually decide that while in the past he only used them as hollow justifications, he can change those ways and actually benefit from them. And if not, then there is nothing that we can do, except say that theres more to life.

The only benefit of marijuana is getting high.

Read Below.

What the fuck is up w/ people needing to justify their drug use?

If you really were not insecure about using drugs, you would not need to find bullshit reasons to justify getting high.

We all like drugs because we like getting high, simple as that.



What are you fucking ESP or something? I didn't know some random person over the internet could read my mind, thats for revealing that important fact about myself, which was just buried deep inside me. I feel so much guilt over smoking pot and I have NO way of justifying it or rationalizing it other than posting on an internet site that my primary reason for smoking is for not getting fucked up but to explore and develop myself.

Thanks for that, I guess I am justifying myself getting fucked up and by "fucked up" I mean absolutely doing the opposite of getting fucked up.

Thanks, your the expert, you showed me. I guess for the previous two years I've been smoking I've just been doing it insecurely, thats why I kept with it.

Yeah, medical marijuana doesn't exist, its just a hoax thats going to be used as a platform by the hippies to legalize that dreadful devils weed.

I don't even use pot for personal introspection anymore. There are much better things for that. To me, it is a way to relax, and it helps chronic pain more than all the pretty little mu agonists in the world.

I've smoked pretty much every day for the last 14 years. Before it was for personal introspection, social interaction, escapism, what have you, but my life has changed quite a bit in those 14 years, and I view, and use the drug very differently now. It is my little ray of hope, it's that little bit of feel good that can get me going. I hurt so fucking bad most of the time, and opiates just plain suck for pain.


You have to take enough so you are fucking trashed, then comes addiction, withdrawal, the cost of a habit like that, as well as potential dangers scoring on the street, what with niggers, and of course cut dope, bacteria, god knows what the fuck else.

I can smoke a doobie, know that shit is nice and clean and fresh, and get more pain relief REAL pain relief than ANY fucking opiate.


But, opiates are fun too, don't get me wrong, but that's a different kind of pain relief, not something for every day usage, if you want to stay sane and healthy that is.

What are you fucking ESP or something? I didn't know some random person over the internet could read my mind, thats for revealing that important fact about myself, which was just buried deep inside me. I feel so much guilt over smoking pot and I have NO way of justifying it or rationalizing it other than posting on an internet site that my primary reason for smoking is for not getting fucked up but to explore and develop myself.

Thanks for that, I guess I am justifying myself getting fucked up and by "fucked up" I mean absolutely doing the opposite of getting fucked up.

Thanks, your the expert, you showed me. I guess for the previous two years I've been smoking I've just been doing it insecurely, thats why I kept with it.

It's obvious you are insecure about it, faggot.

It's obvious you are insecure about it, faggot.

I read through your previous posts and by the looks of it you just attack people. In the first two pages I counted the word "asshole" 16 times, not even in a joking manner. If you're going to bitch at people you should not be a coward and you should do it in real life, in person, instead of hiding behind your computer screen.

Anyways, also from your posts its obvious that you just love to argue so I won't give you the pleasure of doing what you love.

My final words are "fuck off troll".

*Awaits for troll-like reply to laugh at*

*Edit* Heres a quote showing how much of a bitch you are:

Ok, I may be a pussy according to most Totseans, but honestly I prefer to be cute and more feminen w/ girls. Faggot.

You also had to ask for "manly" activities: http://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2084327.

You have an ultra-chauvinistic viewpoint of a neurotic, childlike sense towrds women. Exp: your thread Showing Domination through Sex instead of Day to Day Living. (http://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2094522)

In other words, your rationalizing being gay in thinking girls will still like you for being "more feminine". Hey buddy, guess what more feminine means? Yep, you're a faggot.

Finally, from this (http://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2092058) thread which starts out "I simply can not in no way justify this.", wow, looks like you just learned the word 'justify'.

All in all looks like you have a shitty life, are an addict, are an asshole and can not see anything more than the material world.

Don't even make me get into your threads about stealing shit, you are the scummiest of the scum.

I read through your previous posts and by the looks of it you just attack people. In the first two pages I counted the word "asshole" 16 times, not even in a joking manner. If you're going to bitch at people you should not be a coward and you should do it in real life, in person, instead of hiding behind your computer screen.

Anyways, also from your posts its obvious that you just love to argue so I won't give you the pleasure of doing what you love.

My final words are "fuck off troll".

*Awaits for troll-like reply to laugh at*

*Edit* Heres a quote showing how much of a bitch you are:
Faggot.

I bitch at people in RL and on Totse you piece of shit. That is like saying people who are nice on Totse are argumentative and assholish in RL. Retard.

If I was a troll, I sucessfully did my job because I made you waste your time clicking on my name, reading through all my threads and finding something that I posted about myself because I'm not ashamed too! HAhahaha..you're a fucking looser for doing that. The "troll" won.

I only argue w/ people who are dumb and insecure about themself. They are faggots/jews.

I bitch at people in RL and on Totse you piece of shit. That is like saying people who are nice on Totse are argumentative and assholish in RL. Retard.


Yeah, well... at least I don't "prefer to act feminine around girls"

I dont recall smoking marijuana ever causing me to have any valuable revelations about myself or anything. I mean granted it does alter the way you think, but not very strongly. Maybe that is just because I have a tolerace/smoke mids. But the only real benifits I see of my frequent cannabis smoking is I am relaxed and chilled out. But its great for insomnia and I use it most to stimulate my creativity. Not to say it makes me creative, but it lets me explore my creativity in ways I normally wouldnt have thought of.

Yeah, well... at least I don't "prefer to act feminine around girls"

Alright, I'll give you that, it's pretty gay. You are still insecure about yourself. And for that I LOL@U.

There is NOTHING good that comes from weed to the average person, period. There are few cases in the medical field, but we already have permits for that. There is also not really anything bad about it either besides memory loss and the price, but all of you who are saying there is something good in it are fooling yourselves.

Anyone who has not experienced the benefits of weed as an entheogen, and is interested in doing so, should research its ritual use during meditation (http://www.eoni.com/%7evisionquest/library/miscresurrection.html) and fasting, which spans back thousands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritual_use_of_cannabis#Hindu_use) of years and is still practiced by many people today, Rizzo (http://nihilizo.blogspot.com/2006/10/marijuana-and-my-world.html) is one example who comes to mind. You should research which hormones have increased production during cannabis intoxication, like melatonin and ghrelin (http://www.humpjones.com/rear/entry/dear_humpasaur_does_hunger_make_you_a_smarter_huma n/), and how they relate to the body, mind, and meditation.

"As for the fact that 'everyone gets high' as you said, yet few find God or greater personal power, this is just a result of cultural influences. Lets look at it this way. Compare marijuana to driving a car. As soon as you take a puff you're behind the drivers' seat. The engine's running and you can go anywhere you want. But just because you own a car though, does not guarantee that you will take it to useful, productive or enlightening places. You may just drive in circles, get in a wreck or simply drive it off a cliff. It all depends upon your intention when you're driving as to where you end up, and what you'll do when you get there. Marijuana is the same way. Although it contains great potentials for self-transformation and can take you to places you never dreamed of, its effect is still primarily limited to the mind that is driving it, so to speak."

You have not experienced cannabis as an entheogen, because you have been using it with different intentions. All entheogens work this way, you think mushrooms are spiritual? Try eating them with a spiritual intention, try using the 'raising' part of the meditations described in the article above.

Alright, I'll give you that, it's pretty gay. You are still insecure about yourself. And for that I LOL@U.

Ok I'll give you I might have possibly come off as insecure :)

However, my intention was to look for other perspectives, those of possibly people who have smoked for longer than I have and have seen results in a longer time-frame that I can see. Not meaning to invalidate myself which obviously it seemed like I was thus coming across as insecure.

But I assure you my intent comes from the most secure standpoint :)

'The spice expands consciousness.'

Thanks for the link Obbe, an interesting read it was.

I was comparing weed to alcohol in my head and noticed something. Both are not beneficial in anyway except bringing joy via chemical inductions. Take that for what you will.

Anyone claiming weed helps cure pain...I don't know what to tell you. Weed barely dulls pain. It more or less makes you not care about it. Plus there are tons of other meds/pills that cure pain more effectively and don't leave your head groggy. But then again, there are meds that don't work for certain people and/or still cloud up their minds.

So let's say somebody tries to make that ascertion, that alcohol in no way serves mankind and has no real value or purpose...well, we've seen what happened there. Maybe if we could go back and erase all traces of man drinking alcohol, them maybe we could live in a world where people don't need to feel good by drinking, or smoking, or taking pills. But that's not the case.

So if the world can let people drink, the world can let people smoke.

What happens though, is the lines become blurred between what drugs should be legal, and which ones should remain illegal. People will argue for the rights of E-tards, and crackheads. Granted hard drugs vary wildly from soft drugs...but not in the eyes of the general public. They don't know that. Plus many people still buy into that bullshit about weed being a gateway drug. That is true, but only if you change the term "gateway drug". If you mean weed is at the opening of the drug gateway, then this is certainly true. Generally, where you find harder drugs there will be people smoking weed too. But everybody here knows this, because we are all at least somewhat educated on what drugs actually have a detrimental affect on our body's.


I would also just like to say to that one dude, who said something along the lines of "Weed can help you figure out your values, but it can't help you realize them". This is complete bullshit. Or at least, it's putting too much focus on the drug, and not nearly enough on the person themself. Does weed make you lazy? No. Does weed make you any less stupid? Nope. Does weed make you unproductive? Nope. I've discussed this before. You would not believe the percent of "normal" people who are smart, successful, motivated and driven that actually *gasp* smoke weed?! Wut?!

Don't blame the drug. Blame the moron who can't control themselves. (Harder drugs are a little bit different...you honestly can't compare weed addiction to heroin addiction)

You smoke weed, get high, munch out, pass out. Governmentz hate it because niggers smoked it back in the day.

What else is there to talk about on the subject. Either do it or don't, it's illegal but it's not like it's that hard to get. Risk Vs. Reward. Deal with it.

How can you even say this? Do you have proof to back ANY of it up? How the fuck do you know what weed does to ANYONE besides your OWN body?

You sound like blackpope saying weed makes every stupid.

I think you two are the stupid ones.


Marijuana has legitimate medicinal value, and I see it and feel it myself EVERY FUCKING DAY, so until YOU are so fucked up that you need to smoke a joint so it doesn't hurt you to walk to the bathroom, then kindly SHUT YOUR FUCKING COCKHOLE.

I don't know about the benefits, but I'd say the main benefit is you get high. Feeling good is the point of smoking. So thats the first benefit. Also how things can be cooler when you're high. Sometimes boring shit isn't even boring if you're stoned. TV is entertaining and you can just zone out and eat some food. Food is amazing while stoned also I can't get enough of it. But for actual benefits, it can be introspective but really you will only have "realizations" only a few times. And if you smoke everyday then you don't really get introspective. Sometimes it can help realize whats important and not. But for people who think that there are real benefits to weed, then they must be really stoned. Smoking pot really doesn't lead to anything except relaxation and feeling better for a while.
It can hurt your school work sometimes if you don't wanna do your homework cause your stoned or if you are at school high and just zone out or sleep. Also you can get in trouble with people and the police. There really arent that many bad points to weed actually. People like to exaggerate and say its a gateway drug and everyone who does it will go on to use hard drgus. They also say its demotivational but thats only when you are high. If you're not a dumbfuck you'll get motivated to do something I hope. But it should really be legal because theres not many bad points to it.

This is complete bullshit. Or at least, it's putting too much focus on the drug, and not nearly enough on the person themself.

I think you're half-right.

Nobody here is saying that if you just smoke weed, magically you'll become a better person and obtain all these revelations about life, reality, and even God. Cannabis as an entheogen is just a tool, and a tool is only as good as the person who uses it.

But cannabis certainly is an entheogen, when it is used correctly. In western culture, people don't smoke weed as a spiritual lesson, they do it to get high, and thats it. Thats the extent of their intention: intoxication. But thats a serious underestimation of its potential.

"Believing that marijuana is just a toy is like treating the space shuttle as just another Forth of July bottle rocket. By approaching marijuana with more respect, we are then in a position to gain more from it. This herb can teach us much more than most people imagine. In many shamanic traditions it is believed that peyote, psiloscybe mushrooms, ayahuasca and others, contain wisdom-increasing properties. It is believed that they hold sacred lessons, and an Earth intelligence that can be learned from. This is the whole meaning behind the word ‘entheogens’."

The human mind is always filled with thoughts, conversation, a never ceasing jumble of ideas floating about. Because of this, we fail at observing the lessons entheogens, and all things in life, have to teach us. By learning to quiet the mind (ahem, meditation) you can learn to 'listen' to these lessons. Like you implied, I wholeheartedly agree that it does depend on the user, not the plant.

Would you learn anything in school if you didn't listen and participate, and just sat in your desk passing the time?

Harder drugs are a little bit different...you honestly can't compare weed addiction to heroin addiction

I agree that there is no comparison between a weed ... ahem, 'addict' ... and a heroin addict, but I think that all illegal drugs should be legalized.

But for people who think that there are real benefits to weed, then they must be really stoned.

Actually, to learn from 'the high' during meditation, only a single puff or two is needed to feel the effects. For someone who has also been smoking daily for recreational purposes for years, they would not consider that being really high.

I am one of those persons, so I can assure I am not really stoned as I begin the ritual. But I will testify that during the meditation, through the act of not thinking and focusing all attention only on 'the high', you make yourself very, very stoned.

* * *

'The high' is not a magical feeling dependent on cannabis intoxication. It is a state of consciousness, completely obtainable, changeable and sustainable without any cannabis. Smoking pot as an entheogen can guide you as to how. Look into it (http://deoxy.org/pdfa/marijuana.htm).

How can you even say this? Do you have proof to back ANY of it up? How the fuck do you know what weed does to ANYONE besides your OWN body?

You sound like blackpope saying weed makes every stupid.

I think you two are the stupid ones.


Marijuana has legitimate medicinal value, and I see it and feel it myself EVERY FUCKING DAY, so until YOU are so fucked up that you need to smoke a joint so it doesn't hurt you to walk to the bathroom, then kindly SHUT YOUR FUCKING COCKHOLE.

Which is why I said THERE ARE MEDICINAL PURPOSES ALREADY BEING ADDRESSED.

Learn to read you autistic motherfucker.

This same bullshit argument "weed has no purpose except making you feel good and laugh" can be applied to cigarettes. Medical marijuana is legit. Cigarettes are truly the most pointless thing I have ever seen. Cancer, shitty lungs and bad smell all rolled into one! As opposed to weed, NO cancer, OK lungs if you vape or use a bong, and smells great!

While I agree that marijuana is beneficial as a medicine, I think that kenton intended the focus of this thread to be more on the self-development/improvement, revelations about reality, and even spiritual benefits of weed.

...

Waiting for you to admit you were wrong motherfucker.

Waiting for you to kiss my negro ass.

This is why I hate you. Arrogant asshole, just wait till you get your face smashed in when you talk shit to someone in real life.

Too much pride will get you killed motherfucker.

This is the kind of mindset using cannabis as an entheogen will help move you away from. Motherfucker.

I read through your previous posts and by the looks of it you just attack people. In the first two pages I counted the word "asshole" 16 times, not even in a joking manner. If you're going to bitch at people you should not be a coward and you should do it in real life, in person, instead of hiding behind your computer screen.

Anyways, also from your posts its obvious that you just love to argue so I won't give you the pleasure of doing what you love.

My final words are "fuck off troll".

*Awaits for troll-like reply to laugh at*

*Edit* Heres a quote showing how much of a bitch you are:
Faggot.

You also had to ask for "manly" activities: http://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2084327.

You have an ultra-chauvinistic viewpoint of a neurotic, childlike sense towrds women. Exp: your thread Showing Domination through Sex instead of Day to Day Living. (http://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2094522)

In other words, your rationalizing being gay in thinking girls will still like you for being "more feminine". Hey buddy, guess what more feminine means? Yep, you're a faggot.

Finally, from this (http://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2092058) thread which starts out "I simply can not in no way justify this.", wow, looks like you just learned the word 'justify'.

All in all looks like you have a shitty life, are an addict, are an asshole and can not see anything more than the material world.

Don't even make me get into your threads about stealing shit, you are the scummiest of the scum.

pwnd.

Uh, I carry a gun faggot. And it seems that I carry myself in such a way that people don't feel it worth it to get into a confrontation with me. They just stfu like good little faggots. You should follow suite.


And since you don't know how to read, you autistic motherfucker, I will elaborate. My post was saying YOUR post was bullshit in that your claim that ANY AND ALL medicinal uses have already been discovered is not only fucking ignorant, but the exact same type of ideal that keeps it from actually fucking helping people.

So, please read and COMPREHEND something before you reply to it with a childish bout of internet threats you fucking cum stain.

It makes me feel better when i am sick... this morning i woke up with a fever, migraine, sore throat, runny nose, nauseous, dizzy, and sore...

went to school... came home and still felt like shit... so i smoked a bowl, and now i feel so much better...

i don't really smoke weed for any real purpose anymore, its enjoyable... the only other reason i can think of is it helping depression... life is just so much brighter when you smoke a bit everyday...