I really have no need of trying to utilize this stuff. But recently I've read "The game" by Neil Strauss, watched the whole "mind of mystery" box set and downloaded the tv series of "The pickup artist". I just seem to be fascinated with it.

What are your views on it? Do you think it actually works or it is just a huge money making racket?

I think you waste too much time trying to learn about 'the game.'

For once I agree with you.

It's cliche, but be yourself. If you get a girlfriend by being someone you're not, it won't be comfortable and you'll eventually fall apart. If you have to manipulate or even just use clever tricks to get women, that's lame.

I think it's fucking stupid. You don't need books to talk to women.

Did you even bother to read my OP? I think I said something to the effect of "I really have no need of trying to utilize this stuff". Do you know why? It's because I am married.

It is just like when I read the Torah or the Qur'an, I just find anything fascinating. I guess you could say I am addicted to learning.

I am not trying to apply this to my life. I am wondering what is your opinions are of it.

Did you even bother to read my OP? I think I said something to the effect of "I really have no need of trying to utilize this stuff". Do you know why? It's because I am married.

It is just like when I read the Torah or the Qur'an, I just find anything fascinating. I guess you could say I am addicted to learning.

I am not trying to apply this to my life. I am wondering what is your opinions are of it.

Did you even read my post?

Did you even read my post?

Ok then, how is it that I am wasting my time learning "the game"? Did I say that I am hour after hour, day after day, wasting my time? I don't recall doing so... This has been something I have been looking in and out of for shits and giggles for about a year or so... It is not exactly time consuming.

It's cliche, but be yourself. If you get a girlfriend by being someone you're not, it won't be comfortable and you'll eventually fall apart. If you have to manipulate or even just use clever tricks to get women, that's lame.

Naturally. No one gets into the whole "seduction community" because they are looking for their soul mate. They get into it because they want to consistently nail hot women.

I think it's fucking stupid. You don't need books to talk to women.

Of course not, but these guys aren't reading these things to learn how to talk to women, as in get to know them sort of thing. They are reading books to get to have sex with a certain segment of the female populace, and a scientific approach can certainly be applied. Most guys learn to talk to women the old fashioned way, that is, trial and error. This can be streamlined by first learning other people's mistakes and experiences. Same reasoning behind teaching armed forces officers military history. Sure, you don't really need to read books, you could wage warfare by trial and error, but it's just needless strife when you could learn from the past. Also, Rocko, I would like to ask you what you think the most important trait a man needs in order to talk to women successfully.

Oh, and for the record, I have never read "The Game" nor have I watched/read/listened/etc. to any of the seduction community's works.

I've been a member of the fastseduction.com community for ages. In the last 2 or 3 years I've barely logged on, maybe three or four times. It's a decent community because it teaches you basic elements of becoming an alpha male really.

Learning all the routines and bullshit won't do a single thing these days because it's become widespread with The Game and Mystery Method and people know what you're doing. In saying that, most people turn their backs on it because "You're stupid if you can't talk to women!"

The mindset that you can internalise is very attractive though. That's a mentality you keep for life that can make you successful in life, moreso than just attracting women. In saying that, I went from being a virgin to being with a very decent number of girls after being a member of the community for a while. It does work.

As for the relationships falling apart because it's not you, it depends on which way you look at it. If you learn how to PRETEND to be a pickup artist, of course it will. However, if you learn and internalise attractive traits and become an alpha male... That doesn't leave you. You can keep women you're with because you become that person.

The truth of it is, that it works. It's like dark magic though, and after you understand why people are attracted to each other, it makes things kinda cheap.
If you're just intrested in going out sarging then it's great and works wonders, but sometimes someone will come along who you place above that, and you're in the dilemma of either being yourself, which is right and genuine- But probably won't work, or being a Style-clone which will get her, but you can't get into a serious relationship knowing that you've deceived the person using evil-genius like control over them.

The Game, is a great read.

The Game was a pretty neat movie from memory.

Michael Douglas does good work.

"I don't need instructions to Rock"

I think the whole thing is a bit sleazy, but that's just judging from first impression. Clearly it works, and if you want that kind of thing, good luck to you.

Not my thing.

If you read "the game" you have no game and fail life.

If you listen to the game you also fail life.

I don't really have game. I don't really need to have game, though... I just act like who I am and that attracts girls. I don't try and pick them up, and I'm sure pickup artists have sex with a lot more girls than I do, but I prefer to be in a relationship and have sex everyday.

I've always assumed these "game" books were just snake oil, as many are contradictory. The promises it makes are just too good to be true, and certainly based on circumstance.

I have different views on different aspects of it.

I became interested in the community back in 2004 because it had laid out in front of me all the science and social psychology you need to become a guy everyone wants to know. At the time I didn't have many friends and I guess I was just sucked in.

I was one of the rare few people who wasn't in it to get girls. Although I doubt many of you will believe me. I was in it to develop social skills.

And guess what? It worked for me. Or well, it worked as much as I need or want. And now I keep tabs simply for old times sake.

But sadly what I've witnessed happen to 'the community' since the VH1 series came out, is everything shifting to the mainstream. And now Mystery seems happy with teaching a whole army of social retards go go out to clubs in pink cowboy hats throwing off the same 'openers' as all the others. He knows it won't work, but he's happy to take their money anyway. As is Style.

'The Mystery Method' has switched to creepy, sleazy and sad.

So to answer your original question, 'pick up' definitely works, there's no doubt about that. What doesn't work is the Mystery Method. If anyone's reading this and wondering what I mean, I'm talking his competitors. Minus the guy who uses hypnotism and reprograms their brains.

To everyone saying The Game is a lame book without reading it, it's not a manual, it's a story. And it's a very good story, and it's well-written. It has some pretty funny parts, especially in eastern Europe. I recommend reading it just for the read.

Learning all the routines and bullshit won't do a single thing these days because it's become widespread with The Game and Mystery Method and people know what you're doing. In saying that, most people turn their backs on it because "You're stupid if you can't talk to women!"

The mindset that you can internalise is very attractive though. That's a mentality you keep for life that can make you successful in life, moreso than just attracting women. In saying that, I went from being a virgin to being with a very decent number of girls after being a member of the community for a while. It does work.


All the people that don't understand it or say its this pickup artist industry is fake is because the methods are foreign and unbelievable to them. But the catch is the basic idea of it works you just have to mod it for your own use. I myself have read most of the game and seen the pickup artist shows etc. but i wouldn't use but maybe 1-2 things tops from that show/book, anything else is just asking yourself to get called out by a girl saying Hey you got that from that pickup artist show.

The glory of the whole thing, is since soo many guys are fucking around these days and dont know how to approach a girl or they make themselves look bad, it changes the girls attitude of what shes looking for in a guy. Therefore if say like I come along with a different attitude im almost guaranteed something just because of my approach being opposite. The "mainstream failures" are creating a perfect opportunity for all of those who run their own routines/methods/custom shit.

My methods are completely opposite of what alot of guys rely on these days. My friend and his brother have been around me a few times whilst on the phone with a girl and my friends brother thinks hes a expert with girls, therefore he thinks he should coach me. Ill be talking and he'll be like WTF why did you say to that to her for Why, thats dumb, shaking his head. Then this fucker is coming to me for advice later on asking me why and what girls want these days and he doesnt understand it. Its like hmm thats why your wrapped around your ugly Gf's fingers, cause your not a man bitch! Sad to say it.

confidence is key
confidence only comes with experience

Negative. Confidence comes with believing you are capable. This can come from experience, craziness, or in this case, even believing that you know what you are talking about because you have read books on it means you will show confidence.

Yeah, if there's any heavy object you want to bring along it's a brick.

Im not sure how related this is, but Ive downloaded and read David DeAngelo's Attraction Isn't A Choice (its on torrents for anyone curious). After going to college and taking a psych class, I can say his methods generally work. Girls are genetically programmed to fall for certain actions and qualities. Eye contact, confidence, oral hygiene, well kept appearance, etc are standard issue amongst guys who get girls. Ive even done some "experiments" I guess you could say. The more I "dress-up" on a party night (aka wearing a nice collared shirt) the more action I get. I also read about the 3 second rule somewhere on the internet, that being that starting a convo with a hot girl as soon as theyre near you will get THEM interested in YOU. This worked for me by accident when a hottie came into the laundry room at school and scared me. I was talking to her within 1/2 of her being in the room and then, hell, she wouldnt stop talking to me! I think someone put it best, once your kinda educated on girls, you realize its almost a computer program. Make the right moves and results are guaranteed.

Now Im not sure about all "The Game" stuff , but Ive never read up on it. Seems to me that purposely making yourself a clone may work in the short term, but its dangerous in the long term. Thats my 2cents at least.

why the fuck would you want to be like Mystery? that dude has some serious issues, if i remember...

Its fine if you want meaningless sex, maybe. I think if you want a genuine and sincere relationship though you have to be yourself.

QFT this pick up artist shit is just gay. And most girls see right through it, unless they're completely fucking stupid.

This was an awesome, insightful post. Plus fuckin one.

The game fails to mention that women don't in fact like douches but the idea that they could be the ones who change them.

This thread has been made too many times.
<3

That's a myth.

A large part of 'the game' is self improvement. Improving confidence, social skills, fashion sense etc. Stuff that becomes 'you' after you work at it. It's essentially one big mens self help movement.

All this canned routines bullshit is a different side to it. A side I will again stress isn't universal.

I suppose. But turning yourself into an asshole just to pick up sluts is retarded. If you can become a more confident and overall better person without turning into a douche then I guess this "game" stuff is alright.

Ever read a womens magazine? I guarantee you if you read 12 self help books on picking up women this year, the average girl who reads cosmo will still have read more about the psychology of picking up.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with using a bit of hocus pocus to pick up. Women just plain make absolutely no sense most of the time. Guys need an instruction manual. Besides 95% of those books is about how to change yourself to be more attractive, not how to manipulate women. I've dabbled in some of this stuff and picked up alot of good tips, like always have a made up bed, have a clean bathroom, get the best possible sheets so that she wants to keep coming back to your bed, all that sort of shit. Is that maniupation, or is that being a better man, one that more women would be attracted to?

As for the 'it doesn't lead to meaningful relationships', well possibly but these tricks are about breaking the ice and getting women to go out with you, not make them fall in love with you. Most women have built this fortress around them where it is virtually impossible to get a date out of them. Lets face it nopwadays if the girl isn't interested in you first, you won't get a date. She is only interested in you first if a) you are hot, or b) you already got to know her through work or whatever and she likes you. I would rather learn a little psychological warfare and just charge the gates myself. So once you have gone on one or two dates theres no need to keep up the bullshit, but you never know you might be soulmates, you might be the perfect person for her whom she would never have ever thought of going out with, and you would never have met if you hadn't pretended to be someone else at first.

Most women have built this fortress around them where it is virtually impossible to get a date out of them. Lets face it nopwadays if the girl isn't interested in you first, you won't get a date. She is only interested in you first if a) you are hot, or b) you already got to know her through work or whatever and she likes you.


Not really. Just go up and talk to her.


you might be the perfect person for her whom she would never have ever thought of going out with, and you would never have met if you hadn't pretended to be someone else at first.

I guess, as long as you dont keep pretending throughout the relationship. I assume you meant that by putting "at first".

Not really. Just go up and talk to her.

Try walking up to a hot chick some time and just saying 'Hi, what's up?'. Unless you're good looking yourself, 99% of the time the chick will just think you're creepy and will want nothing to do with you.

It is amazing and teaches so much about social dyanmics between people. Anyone who isn't aware of it is missing out, and saying that its manipulation is just nonsense from people who haven't even looked at what it is.

Try walking up to a hot chick some time and just saying 'Hi, what's up?'. Unless you're good looking yourself, 99% of the time the chick will just think you're creepy and will want nothing to do with you.

Then why would you want to be with a girl like that anyway? Don't socialize with a girl who'd think you're creepy for simply asking them that.

Then why would you want to be with a girl like that anyway? Don't socialize with a girl who'd think you're creepy for simply asking them that.

It's not that they'd think you're creepy, just that you're another drone. Imagine how many guys try and ask her shit all day long. Whereas if you learn a bit of game you can approach more interestingly and provide more positive attributes to yourself to differentiate yourself from the crowd.

Having a bit of game is a good thing. It's not manipulation. It's better for yourself and girls appreciate having someone create positive emotions within themselves.

Then why would you want to be with a girl like that anyway? Don't socialize with a girl who'd think you're creepy for simply asking them that.

Chicks really don't like being approached by strangers, except in bars and shit. It's what you get for living in a constant state of fear I guess.

Thats why you wait for her to look at you and give you that smile. The one that you can tell she wants you to talk to her. If you cant get that look from a woman then you're just ugly and should'nt bother trying anyway.

Whereas if you learn a bit of game you can approach more interestingly and provide more positive attributes to yourself to differentiate yourself from the crowd.

This, And then by doing this you become interesting since your different amongst the mainstream crowd of guys.

I think if you just be yourself and stick with your morals and beliefs that'll make you different enough. Most guys can't even do that.

What are you talking about? Learning to be subtly more interesting to women has nothing to do with being moral or not. You could use this to do all sorts of stuff, good and bad. There is nothing wrong with using some self-improvement techniques to make yourself more attractive. I take it you are also going to start railing against cologne and deodorant too, since they are not your natural smell and a woman should not care what you smell like?

Also, all of the people speaking out against "the game" need to take a very close look at women. Most of the stuff taught in the game is just how to foil or use for yourself the techniques women have been using for literally hundreds of years to attract men.

What are you talking about? Learning to be subtly more interesting to women has nothing to do with being moral or not. You could use this to do all sorts of stuff, good and bad. There is nothing wrong with using some self-improvement techniques to make yourself more attractive. I take it you are also going to start railing against cologne and deodorant too, since they are not your natural smell and a woman should not care what you smell like?

Also, all of the people speaking out against "the game" need to take a very close look at women. Most of the stuff taught in the game is just how to foil or use for yourself the techniques women have been using for literally hundreds of years to attract men.

I guess some people are just interesting enough to women to get/keep their attention. But if you have to create a 'game' to make yourself 'subtly' more interesting to women, what the hell.

Most of the stuff taught in the game is just how to foil or use for yourself the techniques women have been using for literally hundreds of years to attract men.

QFT!! You learn what its all about and youll literally be pulling some shit out of the bag just like females do. Then you'll look back and be like hey girls use to do that to me all the time, but now im doing it to them.

I guess some people are just interesting enough to women to get/keep their attention. But if you have to create a 'game' to make yourself 'subtly' more interesting to women, what the hell.

You're a moron. It basically boils down to getting better social skills. Ever raised a dog with other animals, and a dog without other animals? Raised a dog with no human contact, versus a dog with tons of human contact?

Conversing with people is a skill that we learn growing up, and not everyone is as adequate as others. So...what's the harm in sharpening your skills? I don't see one...and neither should you.

You're a moron. It basically boils down to getting better social skills. Ever raised a dog with other animals, and a dog without other animals? Raised a dog with no human contact, versus a dog with tons of human contact?

Conversing with people is a skill that we learn growing up, and not everyone is as adequate as others. So...what's the harm in sharpening your skills? I don't see one...and neither should you.

Pretty much the first time I've agreed 100% with Carbon.

It's pretty interesting. Maybe not to you but it must feel pretty strange knowing theres a book out there that almost anyone can learn from and just walk up to you and sweep you off your feet.

It's pretty interesting. Maybe not to you but it must feel pretty strange knowing theres a book out there that almost anyone can learn from and just walk up to you and sweep you off your feet.

Actually the book sucks for learning from. The type of game discussed in the book only works if you assume that the girl has never encountered it or heard any of the lines before.

Hence nowadays it doesn't work on a large percentage of them, due to the popularity of the VH1 show.

Actually the book sucks for learning from. The type of game discussed in the book only works if you assume that the girl has never encountered it or heard any of the lines before.

Hence nowadays it doesn't work on a large percentage of them, due to the popularity of the VH1 show.

Well unless the guy is a fucking dumbass he shouldnt repeat EXACT terms/routines from the show and book. Some of the shit off the show you can use and the girl wouldnt kno any better that your ripping it off from the show/book. Its not even that hard to make up your own stuff based on what you saw and read, its like the game/pickup artist show gave you a recipe to follow, just insert your own ingredients. Or you can go off in your own direction just as long as you know how to adjust it to the original "recipe".

If you look at what ive said to girls, like if you could shadow me, you'd be like hey wait this doesnt sound like anything from those guys, you said you followed their basics. If you look at what im doing and the meaning behind them follows exactly what they talk about and show and in the game and such. Besides what they explain in all these pickup techniques and other sites is pretty much the basic process of which you need to run in the fucking first place, just some fucks dont realize it.

Well unless the guy is a fucking dumbass he shouldnt repeat EXACT terms/routines from the show and book. Some of the shit off the show you can use and the girl wouldnt kno any better that your ripping it off from the show/book. Its not even that hard to make up your own stuff based on what you saw and read, its like the game/pickup artist show gave you a recipe to follow, just insert your own ingredients. Or you can go off in your own direction just as long as you know how to adjust it to the original "recipe".

You wouldn't believe how many times I've been out with a hot female friend and some douche has rolled up all 'hey guys I have to get back to my friends in a minute, but what do you think of a guy who keeps old photos and stuff from his ex girlfriend'. Or some other cliche opener.

Even if they have the originality to come up with their own stuff, it always follows a similar kind of pattern. Slightly stilted question they have no reason for asking + a 'false time constraint. It's the new wave of afc.

If any of you guys are seriously into this stuff, check out RSD. It's infinitely better and less weird than MM.

My friend Joe was on that show, Joe Willand. He lost.

I think it works, there's a lot of psychology involved, the game is designed to work on a sub-conscious level, of course it's not going to work on every girl you meet, girls all have different life experiences that will help or hurt you depending on anything and everything you do/are.

-N-

the game is for hookers and fat people.

the game is for hookers and CarbonB.

There you go.

There you go.

yeah that works.

uber pimps dont need "game" or cheap pickup lines.