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| My God Can Beat the Shit Out of Your God For discussing any and all religious viewpoints. Intolerance will not be tolerated. Keeping your sense of humor is required. Posting messages about theological paradoxes is encouraged. |
# 1
2008-01-02, 04:03
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Defending Islam's Reputation
First off, I am athiest, but I find it interesting reading about other religions and their beliefs.
Some of my friends are muslims, and I can tell you that Islam is FAR more understandable and peaceful than Christianity.
I've read some of the Quran, and I even own one, and have read some of the Bible when I go to hotels when I'm bored (which hotel doesn't have a bible in their drawer these days?).
To all you blind christians claiming Islam is the "work of the devil" or that the Quran is full of violence and hatred, read the Quran first before you go off stereotyping a whole religion, just because of suicide bombers and terrorists. George Bush and Hitler were/are horrible Christian men (yes Hitler was christian, read something OTHER than what that American school textbooks say), but I don't go off claiming that all christians are genocidal lunatics that want to police the world, and that the Bible teaches them to do those things.
Look at Christianity, if it isn't the most corrupt, sickest religion on this planet, please tell me which religion is. And I'm not saying that the Bible itself is corrupt or sick, its all the Christians themselves who are.
Don't go off bashing other religions, when yours is basically a failure to begin with.
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# 2
2008-01-02, 04:05
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Re: Defending Islam's Reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by All Shall Perish
Look at Christianity, if it isn't the most corrupt, sickest religion on this planet, please tell me which religion is.
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You said it yourself... Islam...
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# 3
2008-01-02, 04:06
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Re: Defending Islam's Reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axiom
You said it yourself... Islam...
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Hah I knew that would be the first thing said in this thread
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# 4
2008-01-02, 04:08
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Re: Defending Islam's Reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by All Shall Perish
Hah I knew that would be the first thing said in this thread
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I knew that would be your reply...
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# 5
2008-01-02, 05:40
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Regular
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Canada
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Re: Defending Islam's Reputation
^RIP handofzek? what u talking about... Fuck what did i miss?
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# 6
2008-01-05, 22:30
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Re: Defending Islam's Reputation
Most religions are, I think, mostly about the "good things" (helping others, self improvement, doing good in general). It's when people decide that it would be a perfect rallying cry to kill those that don't live right (who does nowadays?) that people generalize them as evil religions. There are Christians that hate Muslims for 9/11, and I'm sure there are Muslims that hate Christians (if not just westerners) for our whole "war on terror" in the middle east. It's all about how they are perceived by each other, we all hear how bad Islam is because we all (or the vast majority of us) live in countries like the U.S.A., and hear it from the point of view of a (largely, i believe) Christian society. They probably hear a similar message in the middle east with Islam crossed out and Christianity in its place.
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# 7
2008-01-05, 23:13
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Re: Defending Islam's Reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by All Shall Perish
To all you blind christians claiming Islam is the "work of the devil" or that the Quran is full of violence and hatred, read the Quran first before you go off stereotyping a whole religion, just because of suicide bombers and terrorists. George Bush and Hitler were/are horrible Christian men (yes Hitler was christian, read something OTHER than what that American school textbooks say), but I don't go off claiming that all christians are genocidal lunatics that want to police the world, and that the Bible teaches them to do those things.
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See, Bush and Hitler never did what they did in the name of Christianity.
Those suicide bombers and terrorists did what they did IN THE NAME OF ISLAM. <-- that is the problem.
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# 8
2008-01-06, 02:57
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Regular
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In my Kingdom Cold
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Re: Defending Islam's Reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by KikoSanchez
Bush and Hitler never did what they did in the name of Christianity.
Those suicide bombers and terrorists did what they did IN THE NAME OF ISLAM. <-- that is the problem.
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I wouldn't go as far as that. Hitler definitely incorporated religious rhetoric at his rallies.
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# 9
2008-01-06, 03:43
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Moderator
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Deep South
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Re: Defending Islam's Reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by KikoSanchez
Bush and Hitler never did what they did in the name of Christianity.
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But you can bet the bumbling, inept Mike Huckabee will if he ever gains a seat of power!
*shudders at the thought*
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# 10
2008-01-06, 14:45
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Regular
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Northern California
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Re: Defending Islam's Reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by All Shall Perish
I can tell you that Islam is FAR more understandable and peaceful than Christianity.
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Sure, the evening news is full of Christian suicide bombers.
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# 11
2008-01-06, 15:34
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Re: Defending Islam's Reputation
Because a "Christian nation" doesn't want to here about things like this.
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# 12
2008-01-06, 21:33
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Re: Defending Islam's Reputation
Nice article. American media does not even gloss over subjects like this.
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# 13
2008-01-07, 14:22
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Re: Defending Islam's Reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by All Shall Perish
First off, I am athiest, but I find it interesting reading about other religions and their beliefs.
Some of my friends are muslims, and I can tell you that Islam is FAR more understandable and peaceful than Christianity.
I've read some of the Quran, and I even own one, and have read some of the Bible when I go to hotels when I'm bored (which hotel doesn't have a bible in their drawer these days?).
To all you blind christians claiming Islam is the "work of the devil" or that the Quran is full of violence and hatred, read the Quran first before you go off stereotyping a whole religion, just because of suicide bombers and terrorists. George Bush and Hitler were/are horrible Christian men (yes Hitler was christian, read something OTHER than what that American school textbooks say), but I don't go off claiming that all christians are genocidal lunatics that want to police the world, and that the Bible teaches them to do those things.
Look at Christianity, if it isn't the most corrupt, sickest religion on this planet, please tell me which religion is. And I'm not saying that the Bible itself is corrupt or sick, its all the Christians themselves who are.
Don't go off bashing other religions, when yours is basically a failure to begin with.
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In modern context, the bible is some kind of guideline that should not be taken litterally. Your Quran is that too.
Give an insane men the bible and he'll read it like an insane man.
Give him the Quran and it's exactly the same.
Use logic and common sense, please no religions...
It's only meant for a personal 'hang on' throughout the hard times in a life.
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# 14
2008-01-07, 16:33
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Re: Defending Islam's Reputation
Islam is more of a way of life than a bottle. I don't think people grasp how dissimilar Christianity and Islam are.
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# 15
2008-01-07, 21:48
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Regular
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Norway
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Re: Defending Islam's Reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by All Shall Perish
Look at Christianity, if it isn't the most corrupt, sickest religion on this planet, please tell me which religion is. And I'm not saying that the Bible itself is corrupt or sick, its all the Christians themselves who are.
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You say to read the Quran before we go off stereotyping the whole religion, yet you stereotype Christians saying they are corrupt or sick. I think you're actually Muslim, but in disguise as an Athiest to sound neutral.
Personally I think it is because our views of what is barbaric have changed. While they might not consider themselves barbarians, when we see this shit in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, and so on, we believe that they're barbarians. Of course it would technically be wrong to blame this on the Quran, but these nations represent Islam, and they're not doing it the modern way. Politically, they're still in the 15th century. How or why this is connected to Islam, is pretty obvious because its muslims that act in this way, as a nation.
As someone else pointed out, Islam isn't just a religion, its a way of life. Whether or not a lot of this is in the actual Quran makes very little difference. Our perception on Islam comes solely from how Muslims act. And that's good enough reason.
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# 16
2008-01-08, 10:50
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Re: Defending Islam's Reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokeProphet
Nice article. American media does not even gloss over subjects like this.
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I wonder why.
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# 17
2008-01-08, 14:31
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Regular
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DONT WORRY ABOUT IT.
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Re: Defending Islam's Reputation
LOL go to middle east check their RELIGION out then you tell me what its all about. Talking about it is one thing, abiding by it is another.
And alot of those fucks that are Muslims think they are better then those of other descent...ive seen it. I thought religion teaches that everyone is equal, not that some people are over others and have rights to down them.
Oh im not being legitimate? Come over to my parts and see how these people act then you can tell me.
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# 18
2008-01-08, 19:43
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Re: Defending Islam's Reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodlander
Sure, the evening news is full of Christian suicide bombers.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_Ham
Up untill very recently, Muslims had never done anything. Then some of them manipulated a rather ambiguous verse that is most certainly not about killing yourself but can be successfully argued as such if you're tenacious about it, and told some of the idiots that the Qu'ran says blowing yourself up was a free ticket to heaven.
The Qu'ran doesn't justify blowing yourself up, in the same way that the Bible doesn't justify slavery. However many people have used 'the curse of ham' in order to justify all kinds of enslavement.
Suicide bombers are ruining the reputation of Islam, and aren't even following the religion. I forget the Arab word, but killing an innocent is strictly forbidden, and a one way path to hell.
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# 19
2008-01-08, 21:06
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Regular
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Norway
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Re: Defending Islam's Reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Without Trying
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_Ham
Up untill very recently, Muslims had never done anything. Then some of them manipulated a rather ambiguous verse that is most certainly not about killing yourself but can be successfully argued as such if you're tenacious about it, and told some of the idiots that the Qu'ran says blowing yourself up was a free ticket to heaven.
The Qu'ran doesn't justify blowing yourself up, in the same way that the Bible doesn't justify slavery. However many people have used 'the curse of ham' in order to justify all kinds of enslavement.
Suicide bombers are ruining the reputation of Islam, and aren't even following the religion. I forget the Arab word, but killing an innocent is strictly forbidden, and a one way path to hell.
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The representatives of the religion are responsible for the religion itself. If the Quran really doesn't condone this stuff, there should be a protestent-like Muslim movement to seperate from such. To be part of a religion in most cases means to follow more then their holy book.
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# 20
2008-01-08, 23:03
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Moderator
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Deep South
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Re: Defending Islam's Reputation
I am reminded of this crazy cat we had in here awhile back, Abrahim - he was of the Islamic faith, mixed in with a few of his own ideals ... and was actually a pleasure to be around if you could get past his extremely vainglorious character and suffer through tens of thousands of keystrokes contained in his often rant-like posting habits.
He wrote some pretty illustrious poetry and short-fiction outside this board, also. Not to mention his artistic flair with paint and graphics.
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# 21
2008-01-08, 23:09
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Re: Defending Islam's Reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splam
The representatives of the religion are responsible for the religion itself. If the Quran really doesn't condone this stuff, there should be a protestent-like Muslim movement to seperate from such. To be part of a religion in most cases means to follow more then their holy book.
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Why should the vast majority of peaceful Muslims break off and form a new religion, leaving their thousands of years old one to the fanatics who like to blow shit up?
That makes absolutely no sense.
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#22
2008-01-08, 23:22 |
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Re: Defending Islam's Reputation
Why should the vast majority of peaceful Muslims break off and form a new religion, leaving their thousands of years old one to the fanatics who like to blow shit up?
That makes absolutely no sense.
Take a closer look at the wide chasm that exists between the Shiites and the Sunnis. This article (http://hnn.us/articles/934.html) details a great deal of their fundamental differences and opposing viewpoints, but there's far more literature out there (without all the American government bias) that offers a good overall comparison of the two. The one I linked to was the best I could find, in a hurry.
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#23
2008-01-08, 23:31 |
Without Trying 
Regular
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Re: Defending Islam's Reputation
Take a closer look at the wide chasm that exists between the Shiites and the Sunnis. This article (http://hnn.us/articles/934.html) details a great deal of their fundamental differences and opposing viewpoints, but there's far more literature out there (without all the American government bias) that offers a good overall comparison of the two. The one I linked to was the best I could find, in a hurry.
Thanks for your input! Even though it is totally irrelevant.
My point was, why should all the peaceful muslims abandon their religion and form a new sect, leaving the old one to the fanatics? It makes no sense.
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#24
2008-01-09, 00:04 |
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Re: Defending Islam's Reputation
Thanks for your input! Even though it is totally irrelevant.
My point was, why should all the peaceful muslims abandon their religion and form a new sect, leaving the old one to the fanatics? It makes no sense.
They shouldn't, and they probably won't. But while I agree that they shouldn't be pressured into it by third party, well-intentioned do-gooders, they can be encouraged to change the fierce stereotyping if the moderate Muslims want to change the impression of others who automatically hate/fear all Muslims. To echo Splam's post, the onus lies on it's individual adherents to help lend more insight to the outsiders who may have a skewed view based on what their cable news broadcasts to them.
Benazir Bhutto is a prime example. While she didn't go entirely against the grain of the rigidity of Muslim life, as a representative of the moderate sect, she certainly put a more pleasant face on the Muslim stereotype than we westerners are exposed to.
Unfortunately she never got a chance to continue that. It can be argued that her plight for peace was ineffectual, as she never managed to puncture the fanatical hate-mongering that led to her own death.
Edit: I don't see the Sunni/Shiite reference I made as entirely irrelevant. A religion breaking off into such opposing groups can be a good indicator of what happens when political quarrels and the corruption of power instigates such splits. Forcing a complete dissection of Peaceful Group/Fanatical Group could be just as dangerous, in the long haul.
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#25
2008-01-09, 08:59 |
socratic
Regular
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Re: Defending Islam's Reputation
To the idiots who say "I haven't seen a Christian bomber", I suggest you google the fucking IRA, which was Catholic, and then look up the similar movements within the Protestant areas of Ireland. Then read 'Lamb', just so you can get a sense of how the religious conflict in Ireland contributes massively to the terrorist actions there.
Then, while you're at it, google the Crusades, the Salem Witch Trials, the Spanish Inquisition, etc, until you go back to pretty much the beginning of Christianity and it's take over, and see just how fucked up Christianity has been. Religion being used to justify violence isn't something new to Islam, people, and just for the record, remember that Islam, Judaism and Christianity are considered "Abrahamic" religions for a reason- they share a considerable amount of material, including the bits of the 'Old Testament' saying a rapist should marry his ex-virgin victim, and that one should kill non-Jews, and that slavery is a good thing.
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#26
2008-01-09, 19:21 |
Splam
Regular
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Re: Defending Islam's Reputation
Why should the vast majority of peaceful Muslims break off and form a new religion, leaving their thousands of years old one to the fanatics who like to blow shit up?
That makes absolutely no sense.
Its not breaking off and forming a new religion asshole, its breaking off and forming a new church (or whatever you call the muslim ones). Just like protestant and catholic. The protestants were fed up with the catholics so they seperated.
Of course this would lead to war.
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#27
2008-01-09, 20:18 |
Without Trying
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Re: Defending Islam's Reputation
Its not breaking off and forming a new religion asshole, its breaking off and forming a new church (or whatever you call the muslim ones). Just like protestant and catholic. The protestants were fed up with the catholics so they seperated.
Of course this would lead to war.
As should have been apparent in my subsequent posts, I meant sect. I typed the wrong word.
And as the vast, vast majority of Muslims are peaceful, it shouldn't be up to them to abandon their 'denomination', because some retards are using their name to do stupid shit. As it stands they are doing the next best thing and denouncing the fanatics, trying to seperate themselves that way.
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#28
2008-01-09, 20:22 |
Splam
Regular
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Re: Defending Islam's Reputation
As should have been apparent in my subsequent posts, I meant sect. I typed the wrong word.
And as the vast, vast majority of Muslims are peaceful, it shouldn't be up to them to abandon their 'denomination', because some retards are using their name to do stupid shit. As it stands they are doing the next best thing and denouncing the fanatics, trying to seperate themselves that way.
I'm not thinking about the violence and stuff, I'm thinking about the lack of civil rights, which if fixed would likely lead to less violence.
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#29
2008-01-09, 20:45 |
socratic
Regular
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Re: Defending Islam's Reputation
I'm not thinking about the violence and stuff, I'm thinking about the lack of civil rights, which if fixed would likely lead to less violence.
Pardon? I don't think I understand you here. Could you expand on this or something?
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# 30
2008-01-09, 22:56
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Regular
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In my Kingdom Cold
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Re: Defending Islam's Reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Without Trying
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_Ham
The Qu'ran doesn't justify blowing yourself up, in the same way that the Bible doesn't justify slavery. However many people have used 'the curse of ham' in order to justify all kinds of enslavement.
Suicide bombers are ruining the reputation of Islam, and aren't even following the religion. I forget the Arab word, but killing an innocent is strictly forbidden, and a one way path to hell.
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Yes. Suicide is forbidden in the Qur'an. Yes. Killing innocent Muslims is also forbidden. But as far as polytheists are concerned, Islam is loaded with intolerance (Sura 2:257). And since when did the Bible not justify slavery? Exodus 21:20-21 clearly states that if you beat your slave and he lives for about two days, you shouldn't be punished.
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# 31
2008-01-10, 15:27
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Re: Defending Islam's Reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by shitty wok
Yes. Suicide is forbidden in the Qur'an. Yes. Killing innocent Muslims is also forbidden. But as far as polytheists are concerned, Islam is loaded with intolerance (Sura 2:257). And since when did the Bible not justify slavery? Exodus 21:20-21 clearly states that if you beat your slave and he lives for about two days, you shouldn't be punished.
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I have no interest in the intolerance or otherwise in either text.
Both the Qu'ran and the Bible were written back when everyone was at constant war, and both of them were trying to convert people as quickly as possible. So 'disbelievers will be burned, and are enemies of God' type verses are in both books, and understandable, if a little stupid to modern eyes.
My point was how people take some unrelated passage from one and argue how it's talking about something else.
And about your bible passage - look at it in the King James version. Back then it didn't justify slavery. Maybe it does in modern versions, but that's because southern christians suck.
Islam keeps out of everyones way unless you mess with them, which I admire. It's the fanatics that are acting aganst the religion, and making people hate them.
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