When Al Gore lost his bid to become the country’s first “Environment President,” many of us thought the “global warming” scare would finally come to a well-deserved end. That hasn’t happened, despite eight good reasons this scam should finally be put to rest.

It’s B-a-a-ck!

Similar scares orchestrated by radical environmentalists in the past--such as Alar, global cooling, the “population bomb,” and electromagnetic fields--were eventually debunked by scientists and no longer appear in the speeches or platforms of public officials. The New York Times recently endorsed more widespread use of DDT to combat malaria, proving Rachel Carson’s anti-pesticide gospel is no longer sacrosanct even with the liberal elite.
The scientific case against catastrophic global warming is at least as strong as the case for DDT, but the global warming scare hasn’t gone away. President Bush is waffling on the issue, rightly opposing the Kyoto Protocol and focusing on research and voluntary projects, but wrongly allowing his administration to support calls for creating “transferrable emission credits” for greenhouse gas reductions. Such credits would build political and economic support for a Kyoto-like cap on greenhouse gas emissions.
At the state level, some 23 states have already adopted caps on greenhouse gas emissions or goals for replacing fossil fuels with alternative energy sources. These efforts are doomed to be costly failures, as a new Heartland Policy Study by Dr. Jay Lehr and James Taylor documents. Instead of concentrating on balancing state budgets, some legislators will be working to pass their own “mini-Kyotos.”

Eight Reasons to End the Scam Concern over “global warming” is overblown and misdirected. What follows are eight reasons why we should pull the plug on this scam before it destroys billions of dollars of wealth and millions of jobs.
1. Most scientists do not believe human activities threaten to disrupt the Earth’s climate. More than 17,000 scientists have signed a petition circulated by the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine saying, in part, “there is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere and disruption of the Earth’s climate.” (Go to www.oism.org (http://www.oism.org) for the complete petition and names of signers.) Surveys of climatologists show similar skepticism.
2. Our most reliable sources of temperature data show no global warming trend. Satellite readings of temperatures in the lower troposphere (an area scientists predict would immediately reflect any global warming) show no warming since readings began 23 years ago. These readings are accurate to within 0.01ºC, and are consistent with data from weather balloons. Only land-based temperature stations show a warming trend, and these stations do not cover the entire globe, are often contaminated by heat generated by nearby urban development, and are subject to human error.
3. Global climate computer models are too crude to predict future climate changes. All predictions of global warming are based on computer models, not historical data. In order to get their models to produce predictions that are close to their designers’ expectations, modelers resort to “flux adjustments” that can be 25 times larger than the effect of doubling carbon dioxide concentrations, the supposed trigger for global warming. Richard A. Kerr, a writer for Science, says “climate modelers have been ‘cheating’ for so long it’s almost become respectable.”
4. The IPCC did not prove that human activities are causing global warming. Alarmists frequently quote the executive summaries of reports from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), a United Nations organization, to support their predictions. But here is what the IPCC’s latest report, Climate Change 2001, actually says about predicting the future climate: “The Earth’s atmosphere-ocean dynamics is chaotic: its evolution is sensitive to small perturbations in initial conditions. This sensitivity limits our ability to predict the detailed evolution of weather; inevitable errors and uncertainties in the starting conditions of a weather forecast amplify through the forecast. As well as uncertainty in initial conditions, such predictions are also degraded by errors and uncertainties in our ability to represent accurately the significant climate processes.”
5. A modest amount of global warming, should it occur, would be beneficial to the natural world and to human civilization. Temperatures during the Medieval Warm Period (roughly 800 to 1200 AD), which allowed the Vikings to settle presently inhospitable Greenland, were higher than even the worst-case scenario reported by the IPCC. The period from about 5000-3000 BC, known as the “climatic optimum,” was even warmer and marked “a time when mankind began to build its first civilizations,” observe James Plummer and Frances B. Smith in a study for Consumer Alert. “There is good reason to believe that a warmer climate would have a similar effect on the health and welfare of our own far more advanced and adaptable civilization today.”
6. Efforts to quickly reduce human greenhouse gas emissions would be costly and would not stop Earth’s climate from changing. Reducing U.S. carbon dioxide emissions to 7 percent below 1990’s levels by the year 2012--the target set by the Kyoto Protocol--would require higher energy taxes and regulations causing the nation to lose 2.4 million jobs and $300 billion in annual economic output. Average household income nationwide would fall by $2,700, and state tax revenues would decline by $93.1 billion due to less taxable earned income and sales, and lower property values. Full implementation of the Kyoto Protocol by all participating nations would reduce global temperature in the year 2100 by a mere 0.14 degrees Celsius.
7. Efforts by state governments to reduce greenhouse gas emissions are even more expensive and threaten to bust state budgets. After raising their spending with reckless abandon during the 1990s, states now face a cumulative projected deficit of more than $90 billion. Incredibly, most states nevertheless persist in backing unnecessary and expensive greenhouse gas reduction programs. New Jersey, for example, collects $358 million a year in utility taxes to fund greenhouse gas reduction programs. Such programs will have no impact on global greenhouse gas emissions. All they do is destroy jobs and waste money.
8. The best strategy to pursue is “no regrets.” The alternative to demands for immediate action to “stop global warming” is not to do nothing. The best strategy is to invest in atmospheric research now and in reducing emissions sometime in the future if the science becomes more compelling. In the meantime, investments should be made to reduce emissions only when such investments make economic sense in their own right.
This strategy is called “no regrets,” and it is roughly what the Bush administration has been doing. The U.S. spends more on global warming research each year than the entire rest of the world combined, and American businesses are leading the way in demonstrating new technologies for reducing and sequestering greenhouse gas emissions.

Time for Common Sense
The global warming scare has enabled environmental advocacy groups to raise billions of dollars in contributions and government grants. It has given politicians (from Al Gore down) opportunities to pose as prophets of doom and slayers of evil corporations. And it has given bureaucrats at all levels of government, from the United Nations to city councils, powers that threaten our jobs and individual liberty.
It is time for common sense to return to the debate over protecting the environment. An excellent first step would be to end the “global warming” scam.

Scam, sure, keep telling yourself that.

While we're on the "copy-and-paste" bandwagon, here's one for you:

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globalwarming/home.html

I win.

I agree with the whole "prophets of doom" attitude put on by public officials in order to gain more votes. However, nobody is even remotely motivated enough to get around to solving this problem. They're not serious about our planet's health until you have energy rations and they take those bloody SUVs off the road.

^Making my win all the sweeter.

I win.

Boku no kachi da.

Why don't you just kill yourself? Then the world will not have to deal with your "carbon footprint" and those of us who are sane will not have to hear you whine. :)

I don't know much but I know this much.
It's January and it's sixty degrees here in NYC.
Let's just say temperatures are not meeting my seasonal expectations.

That's not evidence, that is histeria

Why don't you just kill yourself? Then the world will not have to deal with your "carbon footprint" and those of us who are sane will not have to hear you whine. :)

LOL, to think you count yourself among the sane.

Ditto in Detroit.

A lie? It was 15°C Jan 8th in Toronto, no lie.

Yeah I know, nice wasn't it? I was pretty pissed this morning at the return of the cold weather...

I work with a bunch of liberals, and there always trying to tell me "Global warming is going to do [insert horrible, catastrophic natural disaster]" and I just want to scream shut the fuck up at them every single time I hear it.

I believe in Global warming(science, fucktards) and this is what I have to say:

2. Our most reliable sources of temperature data show no global warming trend. Satellite readings of temperatures in the lower troposphere (an area scientists predict would immediately reflect any global warming) show no warming since readings began 23 years ago. These readings are accurate to within 0.01ºC, and are consistent with data from weather balloons. Only land-based temperature stations show a warming trend, and these stations do not cover the entire globe, are often contaminated by heat generated by nearby urban development, and are subject to human error.
Ok, but 23 years is relatively recent. Ground measurements(have been around for more than a century) show that the temperature has risen. Also, you say that ground measurements are contaminated by heat generated by nearby urban development
What do we use for development? Magic? No, we use tankers of fucking fossil fuel. And what does that make? Green house gasses.

A modest amount of global warming, should it occur, would be beneficial to the natural world and to human civilization.
What about the 10s of thousands of organisms that are killed off in the process? If you take out a few lower level organisms(fish for example) from the energy chain, you indirectly kill off all upper level organisms being supported by those lower organisms. Look at Alaska, there are hundreds of fishermen who are starving and freezing because the majority of the salmon have died off(due to a rise in water temperature). I don't know about you guys, but saving 400 human lives is well worth your alleged "$2700" tax.

After raising their spending with reckless abandon during the 1990s, states now face a cumulative projected deficit of more than $90 billion.
You think $90 billion is a lot? The U.S. insurgency in Iraq costs $275 million per day and is currently at $484,379,080,523. And how are we doing in Iraq?

Even if Global warming was false in some bizarre parallel world, would you really want to be breathing in the quantity of toxic fumes that are being produced? I ask you this, have you ever driven to Los Angeles. It's not pretty. As you are coming in from Fresno, on the outskits of LA, there is a visible split between the green LA smog and the clear, blue skies if outside LA. It's disgusting.

You're not Captain Planet are you?!?

YOU'RE CAPTAIN POLLUTION!!!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5f/Captain_Pollution_in_his_first_appearance.JPG/180px-Captain_Pollution_in_his_first_appearance.JPG

I win.




So you do.

Here's an easily referenceable point, if you need me to find a link:
Some of the hottest years on record were during the dirty 30's.

more like captain COMMUNISM >: (

global warming is just natural.....think of the ice age, thats natural, so why shouldn't it eventually heat up. The global warming scam is almost as effective as the religion scam.

Now that we have ice core sample analyses with a resolution of less than 300 years between data points, we can see that past warming trends preceded notable increases in atmospheric CO2 by an average of 800 years throughout most of the planet's available history. The ecofascist camp and Al Bore are basing their predictions for the future of global warming on decades old data with resolution having thousands of years in between data points.

---->"are often contaminated by heat generated by nearby urban development"<------




And you are saying global warming -doesn't- exist and -isn't- caused by human influence?

if anything the use of fossil fuels are running out, slowly but it's still happening. Also in cities with large amounts of cars and fossil fuel use, asthma is more common (not making any connections for now just putting it out there).

And you are saying global warming -doesn't- exist and -isn't- caused by human influence?

It does exist. The earth goes through cyclic warming and cooling periods. That isn't up for debate.

But human influence accounts for a minuscule portion of warming, next to many other indelible factors like the cycles of solar output. The doom and gloom surrounding the threat of global warming as caused by human beings has been created for political purposes.

Hell yeah I can't wait for tropical beaches, diving, paragliding, surfing, and such in Norway.

I say we make a huge rocket, attach it to the earth and tilt it.

EDIT: Oh any why are people so worried about species going extinct? It happens all the time, has happened all the time since the beginning of life and will happen to the end of life. Nobody even cares to think how many new species evolve.

I believe in Global warming(science, fucktards) and this is what I have to say:


Ok, but 23 years is relatively recent. Ground measurements(have been around for more than a century) show that the temperature has risen. Also, you say that
What do we use for development? Magic? No, we use tankers of fucking fossil fuel. And what does that make? Green house gasses.


What about the 10s of thousands of organisms that are killed off in the process? If you take out a few lower level organisms(fish for example) from the energy chain, you indirectly kill off all upper level organisms being supported by those lower organisms. Look at Alaska, there are hundreds of fishermen who are starving and freezing because the majority of the salmon have died off(due to a rise in water temperature). I don't know about you guys, but saving 400 human lives is well worth your alleged "$2700" tax.


You think $90 billion is a lot? The U.S. insurgency in Iraq costs $275 million per day and is currently at $484,379,080,523. And how are we doing in Iraq?

Even if Global warming was false in some bizarre parallel world, would you really want to be breathing in the quantity of toxic fumes that are being produced? I ask you this, have you ever driven to Los Angeles. It's not pretty. As you are coming in from Fresno, on the outskits of LA, there is a visible split between the green LA smog and the clear, blue skies if outside LA. It's disgusting.


Wheres your sources?

So what? Ever hear how they say "Oh noes, the last time it was that warm in January was 30-something years ago!"

Unless there is a trend, it doesn't count.

Everyone on totse is ignorant and uneducated, and thus has no right to an opinion on this matter.

It's not for us to decide.

But of the people that actually work in the field and actually know enough to have an opinion, a decent majority don't believe humans are responsible for global warming.

I could go into facts and charts about how historically, a rise in CO2 levels comes -after- the corresponding rises in temperature, or any number of other fallacies in global warming. But facts just confuse people with opinions until they ultimately disregard them.

Copy Paste much? Please cite your sources, especially when you directly quoted a whole article for your post.

http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=11548


And regardless of carbon footprints, fossil fuels won't last forever. Something needs to run our cars when we're out of the black gold, and it just so happens alternative fuels tend to be renewable and environmentally friendly, so stop flipping out about it.

Something needs to run our cars when we're out of the black gold, and it just so happens alternative fuels tend to be renewable and environmentally friendly...

And can't be scaled up to the level that car culture demands.

Mass transit is the only sustainable transit for the masses.

So what? Ever hear how they say "Oh noes, the last time it was that warm in January was 30-something years ago!"

Unless there is a trend, it doesn't count.

9 of the past 11 years were the warmest on record. I think that's a trend.

Video. Watch. (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6818529054330982445&q=the+great+warming+swindle&total=115&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=4)

YouTube Interview/Debate about the show. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be8Ymq21kU4

The guy's an idiot though, saying it's the BBC who made the above documentary [it was Channel 4], and that they buy into it [Channel 4 doesn't endorse the theory, the just showed to doc.].

Newspaper:
Rebuttal (http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/climate_change/article2355956.ece)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2032575,00.html

Relevant:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2006/sep/19/ethicalliving.g2

9 of the past 11 years were the warmest on record. I think that's a trend.

Not where I live. It blows.

why is there always this great divide with the left and right wing always blowing things waaaay out of proportion towards their side?

yes, there is a global warming problem. yes, humans make it worse. no, we are not going to wake up anytime next week or even next fucking year and find that the polar ice caps have melted.

we have quite a bit of time before we rly need to start panicking, kids.

now shut the fuck up and go back to sleep.

I'm disproving global warming by going to the packer game this weekend. Will report back results of climate.

Hypothesis: It's going to be fucking cold. Like it always is.

http://www.idrewthis.org/comics/idt20040209globalwarming.gif

http://www.idrewthis.org/comics/idt20040209globalwarming.gif

true.

Now while I may be just a quaint country bumpkin, even I can see that something needs to be done about pollution.

I think global warming is just some buzzword that people like to get worked up about. Personally, I could care less as to whether it's real or not. The fact is though that what we're breathing aint healthy. All you have to do is type in the words "Asthma" and "Pollution" on google you'll get tons of sources saying that there is a link between the two. I think thats kinda serious.

"The fact that exposure to high levels of air pollution could be fatal became well known in the 1950s. In 1952, an inversion causing several weeks of stagnant air pollution in London resulted in over 4,000 deaths. In 1953 in New York City, over 200 excess deaths and numerous cases of increased illness were recorded during a period when air pollution levels were high."

http://tinyurl.com/37tvve

Now you can talk and talk about how global warming isnt caused by fossil fuels, but alot of other bad shit is caused by fossil fuels. I think that's reason enough to lighten our dependence on them. I think in the long run, green technology would serve as progress for American economics and politics.

If we wernt all about the fossil fuels, we'd be healthier and less dependent on imports to keep our society running. We also probably wouldnt be fighting over shitty little patches of desert for the sole purpose of draining the oil from beneath them.

Or I suppose we can just keep on using fossil fuels for the next century until they run out. Avoiding a problem never hurt anything, right?

yes, there is a global warming problem. yes, humans make it worse. no, we are not going to wake up anytime next week or even next fucking year and find that the polar ice caps have melted.

we have quite a bit of time before we rly need to start panicking, kids.

Depends on how you define 'melted'. This past summer the northwest passage was free of ice for the first time in recorded history.

Depends on how you define 'melted'. This past summer the northwest passage was free of ice for the first time in recorded history.

Not much of a passage huh?

That and if you look at satellite photos, something like half of the ice in the north pole has melted over the last several years.

Global Warming is a government conspiracy to gain more power/control over our lives.

17,000 scientists?

I assume you believe in science and are aware of things such as peer review and scientific consensus?

This is the scientific consensus.

"National and international science academies and professional societies have assessed the current scientific opinion on climate change, in particular recent global warming. These assessments have largely followed or endorsed the IPCC position that "An increasing body of observations gives a collective picture of a warming world and other changes in the climate system... There is new and stronger evidence that most of the warming observed over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities"

Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change

SO take your 17,000 bullshit scientists and thier corporate funded bullshit petition and stick in neatly up your corporate tool (realized or not) ass.

Source?

Arctic ice-cap loss twice the size of France (http://www.canada.com/topics/technology/science/story.html?id=6876b470-5cb7-4c79-9a1d-e75ca47a2854)

"THE Arctic ice cap has shrunk by an area twice the size of France's land mass over the last two years, the Paris-based National Centre for Scientific Research (CNRS) says."

"Over the last 20 years, 40 percent of the ice-cap has melted with the average thickness halved from three to 1.5 metres."

Had you paid any attention to geography you would have known that the process of melting ice and gaining ice is a process which has always been doing that for the past millions of years. It is not extraordinary that it happens, it's happened lots of times, even before we were around.
Also the scientists disagree on a lot of points, but I don't believe shit of it that we are responsible for the warming. We account for 4% of the carbon dioxide. Combine that with the fact that carbondioxide is quite a shitty greenhouse gas and we can know for a fact that it is all fairy tales.
Also checkout some of these movies. http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=great+global+warming+swindle

You'd do better to read the peer-reviewed scientific literature and make a determination for yourself based upon the available data rather than watching videos with foregone conclusions in their titles.

first off, i am not doing much, if anything to change my lifestyle, however, i do believe in global climate change (note, i did not say global warming). however i will not deny that the climate is changing, and seemingly rapid. I also would like to say, some people are fucked because as this topic proves, there are loads of people who do not think climate will change, and there are a fair amount that do believe it will change, but not enough to change their lifestyle including me.

i foresee ocean levels rising, and a new ice age to come around. I don't give a darn when it does. after all, so many people said it would not happen, and would not affect them, so they could care less. I will not be the one helping out those in need, and denied the fact that this would happen.

/rant

25 years ago everyone was crying about global cooling and a coming ice age. Now they're crying about global warming. Which is it?

And I like how in an inconvenient truth, Gore shows the graph of CO2 content of the atmosphere, showing that it's like 50 times higher than ever has been. It's completely and utterly wrong wrong.
Five hundred million years ago carbon dioxide was 20 times more prevalent than today, decreasing to 4-5 times during the Jurassic period and then maintained a slow decline until the industrial revolution.Source. (http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/virtualmuseum/climatechange2/07_1.shtml)
And since the industrial revolution it has only increased by about 35%.



Also:
Humans caused green house gases during the ice age! That's why everything melted!


Our emissions are something that need to be reduced though, I do agree with that.

25 years ago everyone was crying about global cooling and a coming ice age...

If by "everyone" you mean "almost exclusively sensationalist media (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling)", then yeah.

"Global cooling in general can refer to a cooling of the Earth. More specifically, it refers to a conjecture during the 1970s of imminent cooling of the Earth's surface and atmosphere along with a posited commencement of glaciation. This hypothesis never had significant scientific support, but gained temporary popular attention due to press reports..."

And climate a half a billion years ago is irrelevant as humans didn't even exist at that point and never would have if those same conditions remained. They didn't stay that way though because the carbon was sequestered into fossil fuels and such which lowered environmental CO2 concentrations.

Then the climate changed completely and humans came along, then they started adding the CO2 back into the atmosphere, which as the carbon cycle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_cycle) shows us, has some readily predictable effects.

And they're especially bad when you take into account the methane-hydrate gun (http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2007/01/351920.shtml) which nearly wiped out all life on earth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleocene–Eocene_Thermal_Maximum) and people are talking about pulling the trigger (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aiUsVKaqDA7g&refer=home).

And climate a half a billion years ago is irrelevant as humans didn't even exist at that point and never would have if those same conditions remained. They didn't stay that way though because the carbon was sequestered into fossil fuels and such which lowered environmental CO2 concentrations.

Hell, nothing even resembling the modern biosphere existed.

Also the scientists disagree on a lot of points, but I don't believe shit of it that we are responsible for the warming. We account for 4% of the carbon dioxide. Combine that with the fact that carbondioxide is quite a shitty greenhouse gas and we can know for a fact that it is all fairy tales.

Scientists may disagree on a lot of points, but in regards to global warming.....they are in a majority agreement known as a scientific consensus.

This is the scientific consensus.

"National and international science academies and professional societies have assessed the current scientific opinion on climate change, in particular recent global warming. These assessments have largely followed or endorsed the IPCC position that "An increasing body of observations gives a collective picture of a warming world and other changes in the climate system... There is new and stronger evidence that most of the warming observed over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities"

Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scienti...climate_change

So if you wish to parade around a minority group of scientists as anything, please go fuck yourself. Find me scientists who say global warming is a hoax, and I will show you a bunch of scientists who are research scientists EMPLOYED by oil companies or are not really scientists (paying attention to empirical relevant data and such).

That is all. That is all the fuck needs to be said about global warming. You can find whatever oil company, dow insustrial propaganda you want, the FACT IS a majority of scientists believe that most of the warming observed over the last 50 is attributale to human activities. PERIOD.

You people should accept defeat and apologize to the rest of us for being unwitting (or willing) corporate tools.

You mean some people are only starting to realize -NOW- that it's nothing but a bullshit hoax ?

Wow, i'm five years ahead of humanity, way to go !

Scientists may disagree on a lot of points, but in regards to global warming.....they are in a majority agreement known as a scientific consensus.

This is the scientific consensus.

"National and international science academies and professional societies have assessed the current scientific opinion on climate change, in particular recent global warming. These assessments have largely followed or endorsed the IPCC position that "An increasing body of observations gives a collective picture of a warming world and other changes in the climate system... There is new and stronger evidence that most of the warming observed over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities"


Political science is -NOT- science. If the "official" scientist doesn't provide "proof" of what the governments WANT him to find, he'll lose funding and go add another % on unemployment stats.

State-sponsored "scientists" are as credible as governments themselves. They're completely untrustworthy. They're the same as your oil-company-funded-scientists.

Now take into account that 99.9% NEUTRAL scientists and meteorologists brand it : HOAX.

A majority of people screaming the same idiotic lie doesn't make it true, it just prevents the truth from being heard.

Has Earth entered a new epoch? What geologists think.

The Anthropocene epoch would mark the period when humans became the predominant force over the Earth's environment. (http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0207/p17s01-stgn.html)

You redefine stupidity.

Take a temperature reading in the middle of a frozen tundra. Now go out onto that tundra, put the thermometer in your ass and see if it gets higher.

It did? Holy shit, you must be causing global warming!

Everyone on totse is ignorant and uneducated, and thus has no right to an opinion on this matter.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

It is my opinion that you are a fuckwit.

I think it's all a massive scare, here in Sydney it was a fairly cold summer to what it normally is.

But hell, if it pushes us to find new energy sources (such as increasing solar cell efficiency to greater than 50%) then I guess it's not TOO bad

OP, i hope you feel glad that you're just one more cog powering the locomotive zooming towards "the end of the human race" station...

What a crock of shit.

Because the human race is incapable of surviving in conditions other than those currently present. There have never been periods of warming or ice ages before in human history.


.............oh, wait... shit.

Because the human race is incapable of surviving in conditions other than those currently present. There have never been periods of warming or ice ages before in human history.


.............oh, wait... shit.

There's not enough mammoth skin fur coats for 7 billion people, nor enough sunglasses, genius!

There's not enough mammoth skin fur coats for 7 billion people, nor enough sunglasses, genius!

Who says we need to save 7 billion people? We can let Africa die at the very least, and there's plenty of other moochers we don't want around.

Who says we need to save 7 billion people? We can let Africa die at the very least, and there's plenty of other moochers we don't want around.

Agreed. According to Thomas Malthius' theory lots of people are going to die to disease, war and hunger. What will happen will be race wars. The EU, Russia and America will team up and kick everybody else's butt, including China and India. They'll likely try to conquer our lands because its more liveable here then in shittystan.

Well as long as we're factoring in population reduction, I have A Modest Proposal (http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext97/mdprp10.txt) for you...

Get lost - global warming is not a lie. if we ignore it, eventually their will be another ice age and the world will be back to normal at the expense of many 1000s of people. global warming will happen on its own without human intervention, but we are increasing the rate of it.

Ditto in Detroit.

Ditto in Alaska. The permafrost is melting, sled dog races are being cancelled due to lack of snow, and the polar bears are dying off because the sea ice is melting.

No lie.

I think your a capitalistic pig despite the fact that your stupid.

I like how the people in futurama delt with glob al warming...

:D

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/7008/eotwprofitku1.gif

I dont get the people who say global warming is natural...
While that is true does it make it any less dangerous?

How Convenient!!??!?!?!

Newsflash: The global climate is really fucking complicated. Really, really complicated. Maybe we think there is a relation between human intervention and global warming, but we can't know for sure. All we really know is that temperature has risen slightly in some places, mostly around cities, and fallen in other places. The increasing temperatures near urban centers may be due to radiant heat. IIRC if you look at graphs of average temperatures from the 1880's to today, there is actually a slight decrease in temperature.

What it all boils down to is that the environment is way too complex for us to fully understand right now.

^OK, we don't understand it fully but is that a good enough reason not to act now? Delaying may put us in an even worse situation when we do finally understand it.

^OK, we don't understand it fully but is that a good enough reason not to act now?

If you do not know exactly what it is that you are acting in response to, how do you what the correct course of action is?

If you do not know exactly what it is that you are acting in response to, how do you what the correct course of action is?

Well there is reasonable evidence that the climate is warming and this maybe due to humans most likely because of the effect of the burning of fossil fuels and other anthropogenic activities. We therefore know that if we are causing the climate to change that it is most likely to be caused by x,y and z and we can therefore target our resources and efforts into those areas.

Sure, it is making some guesses and assumptions that we are the cause but I think it would be better to act now and get the ball rolling rather than waiting another few decades for the science to get totally sorted. In any case unless you believe in abiotic oil then we are going to start running short on oil and other fossil fuels sometime this century (even the very optimistic estimates of 2030 for peak are still a relatively short time away) and it takes a long time to get the necessary replacement infrastructure into place at the appropriate scale.

Why do you even bother posting this shit on totse?

You're not going to change anyones mind. You'll just get flamed mindlessly by all the liberals/environmentalists.

Yes, you're right. Global warming is bullshit. But this isn't the place for technicalities.

It's march in Chicago, and it's 36 and still snowing.
Global warming my ass.

It's march in Chicago, and it's 36 and still snowing.
Global warming my ass.

You people need to pick up a science textbook.

http://www.idrewthis.org/comics/idt20040209globalwarming.gif

You people need to pick up a science textbook.

http://www.idrewthis.org/comics/idt20040209globalwarming.gif

They should call it global climate change then, not global warming.

They should call it global climate change then...

That's the official term.

We're currently in a warming phase.

They should have termed it 'global climate destabilization'.

It is my opinion that you are a fuckwit.

Ohh...its the first amendment that proves global warming. I was looking in the wrong direction completely.

Anyone who supports "going green" but owns an entire wardrobe of clothing and entire household of goods made in China, the world's biggest polluter by many times, is a complete moron and hypocrite. If you want to reduce your carbon footprint, kill yourself and rid us of your stupidity while you're at it.

Also anyone who believes that global warming is a problem must know absolutely nothing about the history of the Earth. Animals and plants have caused radical climate change over and over in the Earth's history. The Earth didn't start out at a comfortable 72 degrees. The Earth was very hot when it was born, it was plants who came along and "messed everything up", turning much of the CO2 in the atmosphere to oxygen and cooling the Earth over the course of millenia.

So what if we heat up the Earth. Great. New forms of life will spring up to live in the new world. Maybe in a couple of million years a new sentient form of life will form on Earth which will make us look like neanderthals. All thanks to us polluting the Earth and turning it into a world that habitable by them.

Does anybody really believe humans can live on Earth forever? That human civiliation is going to last and last and if we conserve we'll simply find space and food and water for everybody and someday we'll all live in some happy fun land utopia for all eternity?

The gulfstream in our oceans moves the weather around the world and keeps the earth filled with oxygen. The reason for that is that the cold water at the north and south pole dives to the bottem because it's heavier, that sets in motion a whole carousel of water being transported. If the north and south pole would melt away completely the oceans temperature will rise and the dellicate ocean sea life would seize to exist. The phytoplankton that provides 50% of the oxygen on earth would die as well and life on earth most likely would have the same faith as the oceans life.

It happend before and has been proven, thin layer chromatography showed that mass extinction in the oceans happend.

Biologically speaking, the planet climate needs to be kept cool. Cool preserves life while hot promotes disease. I’m sure you are familiar with the term “cold nutrient rich waters” These waters promote the development of monster size species of seafood.

Notice that refrigeration prevents food from spoiling?
Another example, try growing some vegetables. Notice at the start of early spring when the weather is cool, the plants are healthy and thrive. Then towards summer as the temperature rises, so does the onset of disease.

But the climate hasn't ever been stable

But the climate hasn't ever been stable

Stable is a relative term and for the last 8000 years or so the climate has been quite static compared to many episodes in Earth's past.

This is probably the primary factor in the rise of human civilization.

its people with a "no regrets" attitude toward the environment that are destroying this planet.

enjoy it while it lasts

People that think people are destroying the planet are fucking morons.

The planet exists. Millions of years before we existed, the planet was here. Millions of years after we die, the planet will be here.

1000 years after the last human dies, the planet will have forgotten us.

Im going to go ahead and post this here. Why? I have absolutely no idea. No idea whatsoever. Totse isn't the place for the truth. Totse is a place for bogus ideas that spur revolution.

But here it is anyways.

Global warming is beyond bullshit. I could go into the charts about how climate scientists don't believe in it. I could drudge up the charts that prove that increased CO2 levels actually come after the increase in the planets temperature, not before.

But i'll skip all that. The truth is...we're actually looking at a severe cooling period. Over the course of earths history, ice ages are actually the standard state of the planet. For most of it, anyways. Not necessarily along the equator. The planets temperature is severely dependent on solar activity, and the latest sunspot cycles have been decreasing drastically. Most solar scientists believe with almost complete certainty that this will trigger a drop of at least 2-3 degrees. If anyone is genuinely interested, i'll post some graphs/links/data. But I doubt it.

Global warming is beyond bullshit. I could go into the charts about how climate scientists don't believe in it.

A fringe minority of climate scientists that have little to no peer-reviewed material to support their claims at that.

An excellent source of climate science from climate scientists is RealClimate (http://www.realclimate.org/)

I believe in Global warming(science, fucktards) and this is what I have to say:


Ok, but 23 years is relatively recent. Ground measurements(have been around for more than a century) show that the temperature has risen. Also, you say that
What do we use for development? Magic? No, we use tankers of fucking fossil fuel. And what does that make? Green house gasses.


What about the 10s of thousands of organisms that are killed off in the process? If you take out a few lower level organisms(fish for example) from the energy chain, you indirectly kill off all upper level organisms being supported by those lower organisms. Look at Alaska, there are hundreds of fishermen who are starving and freezing because the majority of the salmon have died off(due to a rise in water temperature). I don't know about you guys, but saving 400 human lives is well worth your alleged "$2700" tax.


You think $90 billion is a lot? The U.S. insurgency in Iraq costs $275 million per day and is currently at $484,379,080,523. And how are we doing in Iraq?

Even if Global warming was false in some bizarre parallel world, would you really want to be breathing in the quantity of toxic fumes that are being produced? I ask you this, have you ever driven to Los Angeles. It's not pretty. As you are coming in from Fresno, on the outskits of LA, there is a visible split between the green LA smog and the clear, blue skies if outside LA. It's disgusting.


he wins...

That's the official term.

We're currently in a warming phase.

It isn't.

The issue to me is not whether there is global warming or climate change; the issue is the best policy to addressing it. That’s where the debate should have been.
But Mr Luntz! You undersell your own contribution! The reason why that’s not where the debate was is partly because you yourself so brilliantly advised the Republicans to confuse the issue about whether there was global warming at all! As you so cleverly warned them (http://www.ewg.org:16080/briefings/luntzmemo/pdf/LuntzResearch_environment.pdf) [pdf]:

It’s time for us to start talking about ‘climate change’ instead of global warming […] climate change suggests a more controllable and less emotional challenge. […] Should the public come to believe that the scientific issues are settled, their views about global warming will change accordingly. Therefore, you need to continue to make the lack of scientific certainty a primary issue in the debate.

People that think people are destroying the planet are fucking morons.

The planet exists. Millions of years before we existed, the planet was here. Millions of years after we die, the planet will be here.

1000 years after the last human dies, the planet will have forgotten us.

We won't destroy the planet.

We will destroy the land which we need to grow crops.

We will deplete the resources that we need to maintain our lifestyle.

We will kill of most of the sea life, which feeds many and regulates the ocean.

So the hunk of rock we float on will be safe, human existence may not be.

Hey OP was the civil rights movement just a bunch of upity black people?

We sure taught them a lesson by ignoring their existence!

http://www.ipcc.ch/#

http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar4/syr/ar4_syr_spm.pdf

These arguments show how worthless our science education is.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2058273530743771382

If we can't settle something as simple as 9/11 we certainly can't cope with global warming.

DT

Biologically speaking, the planet climate needs to be kept cool. Cool preserves life while hot promotes disease. I’m sure you are familiar with the term “cold nutrient rich waters” These waters promote the development of monster size species of seafood.

"THE YELLOW ONE IS THE SUN!!! THE YELLOW ONE IS THE SUN!!!"
"Okay, calm down. You're making real progress there, Copernicus."
-Brian Reagan

Notice that refrigeration prevents food from spoiling?
Another example, try growing some vegetables. Notice at the start of early spring when the weather is cool, the plants are healthy and thrive. Then towards summer as the temperature rises, so does the onset of disease.

So.......this relates to the topic at hand by the fact that....the earth is in a fridge, right? :D

what about the chevy tahoe that gets better city gas mileage than a toyota camry...

what about the chevy tahoe that gets better city gas mileage than a toyota camry...

Problem is not just the fuel used, it is the entire way of life that we (and several generations) have grown up with and become accustomed to. Fixing climate change on it's own will still mean another problems 'take over'. The only way to get rid of these problems is to reduce the global ecological footprint of humanity to below a sustainable.

And it is true what fretbuzz said about us not reacting. Humans are generally very bad at assessing long term situations, we tend to think problems will solve them selves and/or can't be bothered to change anything because it does not effect us yet. We know that oil will run out eventually, we know that living next to a volcano is a bad idea, we know that smoking is bad for us yet we do very little to change our ways.

We know that oil will run out eventually, we know that living next to a volcano is a bad idea, we know that smoking is bad for us yet we do very little to change our ways.

Too true.

And that's exactly why there will be a dieoff.

There's really nothing I can do about global warming. I walk places, I ride biked, conserve gas and turn off lights and shit, but It's in the hands of the rich people and the politicians.

I REALLY hope it IS just a conspiracy/lie.

If it's real, we WILL do something about it. Eventually. It will take something Serious for people to get off their asses and do something drastic. Say, a powerful hurricane hitting New York city, or some shit like that. If it's a lie and the tempurature is naturally cycling, then some polar bears die. No big deal I suppose. But if the people who say it's real are right and you don't do anything about it, we're in for a shitty time.

I'm not going to worry about it, though. What about you guys?

If it's real, we WILL do something about it. Eventually.

Yeah, it's called dying off to the methane-hydrate gun and there's absolutely no way to stop the runaway chain reaction once it starts.

I win.

CAPTAIN PLANET HE'S OUR HEROO!!!!!!!!! sickk cartoon show lol

funky Z does have a point...!!!!!!!!!

Agreed. According to Thomas Malthius' theory lots of people are going to die to disease, war and hunger. What will happen will be race wars. The EU, Russia and America will team up and kick everybody else's butt, including China and India. They'll likely try to conquer our lands because its more liveable here then in shittystan.


Wrongo. This was written in 1998, it is worse for us now.

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/china/doctrine/chinamil.pdf

Excerpt:
China’s standing armed force of some 2.8 million active
soldiers in uniform is the largest military force in the world.
Approximately 1 million reservists and some 15 million
militia back them up. With a population of over 1.2 billion
people, China also has a potential manpower base of
another 200 million males fit for military service available
at any time.


China alone could kick most of the world's ass if they really wanted to. Unless it became a nuke war and then most of us are gunna die.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2006/sep/20/oilandpetrol.business

So, I was reading around the other day and heard that the Royal Society (the UK's National science academy) Sent a letter to Exxon Mobile telling them to stop bullshitting people.

You can read the letter itself on the page in the link above*

Yeah, it's called dying off to the methane-hydrate gun and there's absolutely no way to stop the runaway chain reaction once it starts.

Shit

And can't be scaled up to the level that car culture demands.

Mass transit is the only sustainable transit for the masses.
Research some alternative fuels before you say shit. What are you thinking, Ethanol? Yeah, it blows. Nevermind biodiesel, which will soon be derived from algae. Algae grows exponentially and we won't run out of it, that's pretty fucking sustainable, no? There are several business ventures looking to do this, and it's just another way to get oil that current biodiesel enthusiasts are getting from restaurants. Oh, and algae can be grown anywhere where there's sun. At least one of the companies is planning on using giant plastic tubes filled with water in the desert. Please don't go off on a rant about how this could never work, because it's incredibly simple. There are already alga's that are 50% oil by volume, and diesel engines already burn biodiesel, it's just a matter of growing algae and straining the oil.

I don't really care very much about putting out more CO2, I think the environment will recover from that. To the retard who cited the dinosaur extinction- you're right. The earth will recover. Be sure to take note that it took millions of years to recover.

The reality is that the climate is getting warmer, and it's being caused by natural cycles as well as anthropogenic sources like burning fossil fuels. We aren't all going to die tomorrow. Politicians are blowing this out of proportion for their gain. But it's also a problem. We are in a period of mass extinction right now, and warmer climates sure aren't going to help ailing species, and they will also most likely cause a spread in disease and rise in sea levels and intense weather. As with most political issues, both sides are fucking stupid and make things too extreme. Global warming is neither a lie nor a monster that will kill us tomorrow. Infrastructure doesn't take change quickly, so it's best to move on in steps to fuels that won't run out and won't damage the environment, which has fed, clothed, and housed us quite nicely up til now. Through slow changes we can transition to keep everything balanced, and we won't fuck shit up beyond repair.

Research some alternative fuels before you say shit. What are you thinking, Ethanol? Yeah, it blows. Nevermind biodiesel, which will soon be derived from algae. Algae grows exponentially and we won't run out of it, that's pretty fucking sustainable, no?

The U.S. National Renewable Energy Laboratory conducted a multi-year multi-million dollar investigation on algae that was terminated in 1995 or so. Energy production was determined to be impossible due to several factors.

Simple single cell organisms do not grow well under laboratory or agricultural conditions. They are susceptible and die from subtle changes in ph, CO, O2, temperature, sediment, invasive competitors (bacteria, virus, fungus, rogue algae etc.), nutrient levels, sunlight changes, etc. so outdoor ponds wouldn't work. Outdoor and indoor facilities (tanks, biogenerators, etc.) also aren't cost effective and require precise controls.

Some propositions call for creating salt lakes for algae growth, filled from sea water. This will work, assuming minimal evaporation.

For a single growth season.

After harvesting, the salt will remain. If you refill with salt water again, the salinity will double and growth will become impossible. Fresh water will be needed for subsequent topping up. and to replace evaporation (typically 1 ton per day per 50 m² of pond area under Californian desert summer conditions). Otherwise, you'll end up creating miniature Death Valleys.

So if you were going to attempt to do this, you're looking at indoor ponds where the environment can be controlled.

So you have to ask the question of where we're going to get all the concrete for the construction of all these algea greenhouses.

Assuming a 2-foot slab depth, you'd need about 100 times the amount of concrete as went into the Three Gorges Dam, produced at about 50 times the yearly rate of production of the dam, for 15 years, using concrete production equipment equivalent to that of 25 medium-large cities.

Since the ponds are shallow, a 4" slab of 3,000 psi. concrete should be quite sufficient. This concrete can be made using fly ash or rice hull ash as a pozzolanic admixture, thereby reducing portland cement requirement by 50%, and reducing the embodied energy content of the concrete by about 35%. The use of the pozzolan in the concrete, plus a lower w/cm ratio, will also make it more watertight.

11,000 square miles = a square that's 104.88 miles on a side, i.e. 553,771.07 feet on a side.

If 4" of concrete:

1 square mile = 27,878,400 square feet.

Concrete depth of 4" = 1/3 foot, therefore divide square feet by three to get cubic feet. 9,292,800 cubic feet.

Divide cubic feet by 27 to get cubic yards: 344,178 cubic yards. That's one square mile.

To pave 11,000 square miles would require 3,785,955,556 cubic yards, i.e. approx. 3.8 billion cubic yards of concrete. Three Gorges Dam used a total of 35 million cubic yards.

A typical high-end movable batch plant (one that can be disassembled and moved on trailers) can produce 600 cubic yards of concrete per hour, it loads on average one 10-yard transit mixer per minute. Assume two shifts for production, one for maintenance. 4,000 working hours per year.

One batch plant would take 1,577 years to do the job. 100 such batch plants can do it in 15.77 years.

Assume the plants are sited strategically and relocated as the project progresses, so the maximum haul distance is 10 miles; with truck speed of 25 mph, gets you 20 minutes on the road and 10 minutes discharging into the concrete pump; a total cycle of 30 minutes per 10-yard batch. You want one truck leaving the plant per minute. So that's 30 trucks per plant, plus two spares in case of breakdown. So you need 3,200 transit mixers.

This is about the equivalent concrete production capacity of 25 cities the size of San Francisco. Think of building 25 cities in 15 years.

By comparison, the Three Gorges Dam involved 35.3 million cubic yards of concrete, and a typical placement schedule was 5.2 million cubic yards per year. Building 11,000 square miles of algae ponds would require about 50 times as much concrete per year.

http://www.geocities.com/sciliterature/Climate.htm

http://www.realclimate.org

http://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2133537