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| My God Can Beat the Shit Out of Your God For discussing any and all religious viewpoints. Intolerance will not be tolerated. Keeping your sense of humor is required. Posting messages about theological paradoxes is encouraged. |
# 1
2007-12-09, 18:31
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The Golden Compass debate- enlighten me?
I've heard/seen a lot of things on the internet that are all adamant about bringing down the book/movie "The Golden Compass". I've heard 'facts' from both sides that are mutually exclusive so it has really confused me. I think that this is the right forum for this thread because i want to know what the real issue is over religion in this book/movie- is it really about killing God or is there a deeper meaning, and are the Christian attackers justified in their fear in kids watching this movie?
p.s., i really don't want this to become a big debate thread. i know how you Atheists and Christians get when you are together =] i just want the facts/reasoned analysis.
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# 2
2007-12-09, 20:29
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Regular
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Northfield, NJ, USA
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Re: The Golden Compass debate- enlighten me?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_whackamole
i just want the facts/reasoned analysis.
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
ahem.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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# 3
2007-12-09, 22:34
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Regular
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Northfield, NJ, USA
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Re: The Golden Compass debate- enlighten me?
Ok, so I've actually stumbled onto a few articles on the topic since my last post. Apparently, in the books, the kids are fighting against a god named Yaweh, and kill him, which is just hilarious.
Do the theists have a legitimate complaint? Sure.
Is anyone who whines about protecting their "faith" like it's more fragile than a house of cards a fucktard? You bet.
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# 4
2007-12-09, 23:07
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Regular
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http://tinyurl.com/28ozhm
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Re: The Golden Compass debate- enlighten me?
^
This man knows.
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# 5
2007-12-10, 01:30
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Moderator
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Deep South
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Re: The Golden Compass debate- enlighten me?
I haven't read any of the books, but I just got back from seeing the movie. I thought it was only mediocre.
Yahweh wasn't mentioned. "Dust" was a metaphor for knowledge of metaphysics, which lead to portals to other universes where humans didn't have animal spirits for sidekicks, and the church was the official magistrate who tried to prevent the knowledge from seeping out to the masses.
Make-believe and special FX were plentiful, and if talking polar bears and witches are your idea of good cinema, you'd probably like it. No doubt the Christians are opposed to letting their kids see it, as a huge part of the storyline was about how each person (in the particular setting of that universe) had a *demon*, a spiritual animal that was part of it's respective human's soul.
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#6
2007-12-10, 04:27 |
aTribeCalledSean 
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Re: The Golden Compass debate- enlighten me?
Author of books is noted athiest, humanist, secularist. Has been quoted to wish to "kill the idea of God" in childrens minds.
The movie was blatantly dumbed down. Some would argue in order to convince parents that the book is safe to buy for the children.
Having read the series in my youth, I'd say there are definate overtones of the darker side of organized religion, sexuality, loss of innocence, original sin. These themes play a major part in the entire storyline. In the world of the Golden Compass, your daemon can shapeshift into most any creature it wants, eventually it settles into one animal and can't change anymore. This is essentially a loss of innocence, puberty, love/lust allegory. The Magistrate (read: Roman Catholic Church) is doing fucked up things to "correct" this loss of shapechanging ability (read: Organized religions devestating opinions on sexuality, innocence, virginity, purity, original sin). There's really tons of shit in there. Yeah, they kill a God called Yahweh, but it ends up being in a sacrificial, love conquers all kind of thing which is oddly resonant of Christianity.
So in a sense, I suppose theists, specifically Catholics, could have a gripe with this flick/book series.
In my opinion, it's great book series. One I am definately going to reread now that I'm not 11.
I enjoy it just as I enjoy the Chronicles of Narnia; for the story it is. I don't care that CS Lewis was pushing a Christian allegory any more than Pullman maybe pushing an anti-organized religion allegory.
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#7
2007-12-10, 17:28 |
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Re: The Golden Compass debate- enlighten me?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by aTribeCalledSean
Author of books is noted athiest, humanist, secularist. Has been quoted to wish to "kill the idea of God" in childrens minds.
The movie was blatantly dumbed down. Some would argue in order to convince parents that the book is safe to buy for the children.
Having read the series in my youth, I'd say there are definate overtones of the darker side of organized religion, sexuality, loss of innocence, original sin. These themes play a major part in the entire storyline. In the world of the Golden Compass, your daemon can shapeshift into most any creature it wants, eventually it settles into one animal and can't change anymore. This is essentially a loss of innocence, puberty, love/lust allegory. The Magistrate (read: Roman Catholic Church) is doing fucked up things to "correct" this loss of shapechanging ability (read: Organized religions devestating opinions on sexuality, innocence, virginity, purity, original sin). There's really tons of shit in there. Yeah, they kill a God called Yahweh, but it ends up being in a sacrificial, love conquers all kind of thing which is oddly resonant of Christianity.
So in a sense, I suppose theists, specifically Catholics, could have a gripe with this flick/book series.
In my opinion, it's great book series. One I am definately going to reread now that I'm not 11.
I enjoy it just as I enjoy the Chronicles of Narnia; for the story it is. I don't care that CS Lewis was pushing a Christian allegory any more than Pullman maybe pushing an anti-organized religion allegory.
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I used to love that series when I was younger too. Especially the second book.
And I can't see why an intelligent non-dense theist would have a problem, as the 'Yahweh' here is really just Satan. He plays the role of the deciever and is not interested in the people but the self.
Of course, I can't ever really remember what Pullman showed as 'Yahweh' actually gained from doing what he did.
Finally, is the film codensing the entire tilogy or is it just part one? 'Cause if it's all in one how the hell'd they get all the neccesary crap into it? |
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#8
2007-12-10, 20:28 |
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Re: The Golden Compass debate- enlighten me?
Someone should start a thread based on things the church has hated.
Rock music
Elvis
Reason
Intelligence
and so on.
Would make a good thread.
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#9
2007-12-11, 02:33 |
chubbyman25
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Re: The Golden Compass debate- enlighten me?
I thought the movie was so-so, could have been better. Never read the books though. I have seen some of the author's quotes though, most are blatant attacks against religion in any form. The whole story line was obviously an attack on theocratic religion, which they way it was portrayed I actually don't have a problem with. I am christian but I don't think that blind faith is a good thing.
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#10
2007-12-12, 00:38 |
socratic
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Re: The Golden Compass debate- enlighten me?
How do you kill a God?
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#11
2007-12-12, 01:27 |
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Re: The Golden Compass debate- enlighten me?
How do you kill a God?
Same way you'd kill Santa, or the Easter Bunny - by not believing.
It's really a very hands-off process.
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#12
2007-12-12, 03:27 |
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Re: The Golden Compass debate- enlighten me?
The film was alright, could have been made a lot worse. Hopefully the next two will be aimed at a more mature audience like the books were.
I think the problem here isn't that the story is essentialy about 'killing god' but more that it's being turned into a childrens story- Even though the books were perhaps aimed at young adults, they still contained a lot of adult themes- Drugs, alcohol, sex and messages about organised religion.
The books are definitely worth a read, they're quite accesible, moreso than some better known stories of the same style.
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#13
2007-12-12, 08:41 |
Twisted_Ferret
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Re: The Golden Compass debate- enlighten me?
The books were dull and conceptually off-kilter. Didn't like them at all, and I'm an atheist. Very blatant agenda-pushing set in a mediocre story, IMHO.
Not that I am against the (natural) demise of religion, but as a story/philosophical musing, I thought the books were pretty bad.
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#14
2007-12-12, 09:32 |
The_Big_Beef
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Re: The Golden Compass debate- enlighten me?
How do you kill a God?
A silver stake laced with garlic through the heart. Maybe even some incantations, candle lighting, and upside-down cross burning.
PS Why is it when someone tries to register on here it says "Registration has been disabled by the admin."?
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#15
2007-12-12, 11:57 |
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Re: The Golden Compass debate- enlighten me?
PS Why is it when someone tries to register on here it says "Registration has been disabled by the admin."?
Not to be redundant, but ... registration has been disabled by the admin.
Hopefully that'll change soon!
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#16
2007-12-13, 06:27 |
The_Big_Beef
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Re: The Golden Compass debate- enlighten me?
Not to be redundant, but ... registration has been disabled by the admin.
Hopefully that'll change soon!
Ahhh I see. Basically my question was why has registration been disabled by the admin.
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#17
2007-12-18, 23:48 |
Xerxes89
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Re: The Golden Compass debate- enlighten me?
Ahhh I see. Basically my question was why has registration been disabled by the admin.
Because they are busy wacking off to the Golden Compass.
I am currently reading the novel and I am disappointed that the story isn't that great compared to Full Metal Alchemist (anime), which has: alchemy through philosopher's stone (aka. quintessence of dust), chimaeras instead of talking daemons, etc.
The author could have made the book better by making the daemons into more pokemon-like creatures, with fire blasts and all that FX.
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