Sorry about the outages. There's been a small-scale 'bot attack going on for the past week against totse, and I've had to tweak my counter-measures a couple of times to fend off the attacks. The attacks have been pretty weak, but I made a typo in the script I wrote that fends off the attacks and that let enough of them get through to slow down and/or stop the system a couple of times. I'll be doing a complete code review tomorrow and I've got a couple of new counter-measures that should deal with any new attacks within minutes.

Carry on.

Good stuff Jeff.

Is it okay to quote that for others who were wondering?

I'd rather not tell the attackers that there are active counter-measures in place, or they might try to work around them. Feeble-minded attacks are a lot easier to fend off than well thought-out attacks.

Totse has been going doing for long periods several times over the last 2 or 3 months.

I don't know if you knew that - I imagine you do - but thought I'd say that just in case...

I have monitoring software on the web site which pages me when there's something wrong. The server that does the monitoring was off-line a couple of weeks ago and we ran out of log file space and the system was crashed for several days before I noticed.

As far as I can tell, apart from that incident it's been pretty stable aside from the past two weeks.

When you say "down", do you mean nothing is accessible, the BBS is not accessible, or the BBS says "the load is too high right now"?

I have monitoring software on the web site which pages me when there's something wrong. The server that does the monitoring was off-line a couple of weeks ago and we ran out of log file space and the system was crashed for several days before I noticed.

As far as I can tell, apart from that incident it's been pretty stable aside from the past two weeks.

When you say "down", do you mean nothing is accessible, the BBS is not accessible, or the BBS says "the load is too high right now"?


There have been both types, several times.

The above is really great to know and do you mind if I post this so the rest can see that you do take a lot more of an active part here than is commonly thought by many?

There have been both types, several times.

The above is really great to know and do you mind if I post this so the rest can see that you do take a lot more of an active part here than is commonly thought by many?

That I carry a pager and have monitoring in place that (mostly) works? Sure. Tell them.

The other problem is that this place is crazy-popular. Even with registrations closed there are something like 50K+ unique users per day and close to 1 million page views per day. That's a lot for one server to handle. As much as I hate banks, I'm seriously thinking of getting a bank account, charging $5 for each new account, and putting the money into new servers for the site. I could probably cluster about 4 servers together and the traffic would just increase to match the capacity. Right now it's maxxed out, so when someone launches a bot attack and my scripts don't counter the threat then the site is pushed over the edge.

Your SuperMod is insane and clashing with the administration.

Figured that I'd toss it out there. Might want to e-mail zok and acidmelt about it.

I have to agree with Euda. Jeff, if you consult with your admins-in-charge, and your other mods, you'll find that MLoR isn't exactly the best choice for the job. Not only does he make it his life's goal to undermine the admins, he actively attempts to create dissension among the staff, either by forcing his agenda, or by threatening mods with demotion if they do not follow him.

To further back the point, MLoR's maturity and mental state should come into question. MLoR is immature on so many levels, that to discuss them here would be a waste of thread. Mental state is another point. MLoR is, for a majority of the time, in a drug induced stupor, and when he isn't, he is generally dealing with real life drama that causes him to become impulsive, and show a lack of judgment.

Jeff, please take this and all other submissions into consideration, and tell us that you will come to your senses, and make MLoR a regular mod again

Your SuperMod is insane and clashing with the administration.

?????

Now that the subject has already been mentioned - Euda has a point. I'll just say that I feel strongly that he is not suited at all for the position.

It's not that I don't rock the boat or anything. In fact when the subject is something that affects totse like this does, I think it should be brought up. I just kinda thought that it was something best left to Acid and Zok. It's not like they wouldn't have brought it up themselves if none of us did.

But, like I said, since it was brought up here, I thought I would throw in my 2 cents too.

People don't want to rock the boat and point things out. It's understandable.

There is simply a lot of drama when dealing with MomentaryLapseOfReason.

It's worth discussing.

Huh??! I have never had a problem with MLOR. Infact rather the opposite. As far as I can see he does a great job.

What have I missed?

Ps Jeff, just taken me 17 attempts to post this message.

Most of this takes place on IRC

Huh??! I have never had a problem with MLOR. Infact rather the opposite. As far as I can see he does a great job.

What have I missed?

Yeah, I think I've missed a beat here, I've been without incident with him.

Nice to see you around again Jeff, good work with the site.

How about instead of going on an axe rampage to take me out, we discuss what your problems are with me, and possible ways to fix them? I'm open to suggestions. And might I add, Euda is really the only mod I've had any problems with.

Most of this takes place on IRC

IRC =/= The boards.

If you have a problem with how I operate in IRC, bring it up there, but that has nothing to do with how I operate on the boards.

And might I add, Zok and acidmelt have the power to remove me. Don't you think that if they felt I wasn't working up to expectations, I'd be gone by now?

Huh??! I have never had a problem with MLOR. Infact rather the opposite. As far as I can see he does a great job.

^This. He helped me learn to navigate when I first started modding and is always available for questions.

Actually, we don't. And it's my opinion that you are bat shit crazy to say the least. I've explained to you a number of times how to conduct yourself on the boards (in terms of bans, infractions, and targeting people to get in trouble) and you refuse to listen. In fact, just the other day you said this, which I almost immediately emailed to acidmelt after my red flags shot up:

01:11 <@j3buonag> I'm searching all of jheit1's posts on teh site waiting for him to commit a bannable offense
01:11 <@j3buonag> Hopefully we can permaban him

That was in #mods. (For those of you who don't know the situation, MLoR was using Jebuonag's secondary IRC name because Jebuonag was using MLoR's primary name (irc services were offline)).

Honestly, I've had it and I have to agree. It's more trouble and drama than it's worth.

Edit: Just the other day when IRC services were offline, Jeb signed on to IRC under the name "mlor" in order to piss him off when he tried to log in under the same name (since nickserv was gone, nothing was there to stop him). Jeb didn't have the nick "mlor" join #totse, so none of us knew that he did this. mlor signs on and freaks out saying that Jeb should be permanently banned for this. Then he starts yelling at me, Euda, and Meta about how we should have already banned Jeb for doing this (when we didn't even know that it had been done, mind you). We explained it to him a few times but he wouldn't hear it. It just seemed to make him more pissed off. Then he signed off line. I know it was a misunderstanding, but I expect to be able to talk to my coworkers and explain things to them without them flipping out, yelling at me for a moot point, and then leaving - regardless of whether they misunderstood the situation or not.

If I think of more later, I'll make another post.


On another note, Jeff there's a very important thread in M&A that I stickied just for you :) - vBul is experiencing a number of problems which could stand to be fixed.

. And it's my opinion that you are bat shit crazy to say the least.

Awwww you never say such sweet things about me :(

*fuehlt sich ungeliebt*

Actually, we don't. And it's my opinion that you are bat shit crazy to say the least. I've explained to you a number of times how to conduct yourself on the boards (in terms of bans, infractions, and targeting people to get in trouble) and you refuse to listen.

This is truth; I may not have the best standing around here, but MLoR looks for reasons to ban, but beyond that, tends to ban now and ask questions later. Just the other day, he was threatening to go over Zok and acidmelt and ask Jeff to have me removed when I had done nothing at all!

Or, for example, when he banned PirateHippie and justified it because her account was 'inactive', when really he banned PirateHippie because they broke up.

MLoR tends to act often without reason, without consulting his other admins, without consulting his moderators, and generally in a fashion that smacks of censorship and policing. We are not the Totse Police, but if MLoR could be, he would be.

Jeff, I ask that you strongly consider Zok's opinion; I know I don't have to say that, but in my opinion Zok has done a beautiful job managing this unruly crew of moderators we've got (I say that affectionately). Maybe some moderators have not dealt with MLoR as much, but for those who have, he turns this interesting little side job of moderating in to a dramatic production.

I think I've covered all my bases there; I support Zok and acidmelt 100%.

Or, for example, when he banned PirateHippie and justified it because her account was 'inactive', when really he banned PirateHippie because they broke up. Well as she'd sent someone to break his legs IRL I think he was probably covered by the 'threatening physical harm' clause.

Maybe some moderators have not dealt with MLoR as much, but for those who have, he turns this interesting little side job of moderating in to a dramatic production.


I'll admit I've only had a few dealings with MLoR but I always found him to be courteous and professional, even when he was slapping me down.

I find it hard to reconcil what Zok and others are saying here about him with my own experiences.

But if Zok wants him gone then I'd trust his judgment.

What does acidmelt say?

Well as she'd sent someone to break his legs IRL I think he was probably covered by the 'threatening physical harm' clause.

Some guy walking around with a bat doesn't qualify as someone who's sent to break your legs, especially when he's wearing a baseball uniform.

zok and acidmelt both have support on this one. This discussion has been brewing for quite some time.

Most of this takes place on IRC

If that were the case, I wouldn't have said anything since shit done on IRC doesn't affect the board and vice versa.

I think my breaking point was when he did that mass ban of like 20 or 30 people at once on his own.


Well as she'd sent someone to break his legs IRL I think he was probably covered by the 'threatening physical harm' clause.

Not at all. If it wasn't done through the board then is has nothing to do with totse. Besides, I have to kinda question the validity of that story...


I'll admit I've only had a few dealings with MLoR but I always found him to be courteous and professional, even when he was slapping me down.

Ar first and for a while he was doing ok. He helped me on quite a few things. And so I thought my first thoughts [which were that he was a bad choice for the job] were wrong. But he seemed to get worse and worse over time; letting his personal feelings totally and massively influence his actions.


What does acidmelt say?

Without claiming to speak for him, I think it safe to say that he totally concurs.

I think my breaking point was when he did that mass ban of like 20 or 30 people at once on his own.

I forgot about that one. I logged online and mlor tells me not to unban the people he just banned "no matter how much they whine." I later find out he banned like, 20 people for sharing a piece of a conversation mlor had with someone on IRC (correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that was the info). I know a lot of them were unbanned afterwards, but it's huge over reactions like this that worry me. Hell, had that happened to me, I wouldn't have even infracted them.

zok and acidmelt both have support on this one. This discussion has been brewing for quite some time.

As I have now discovered. I've had some emails from people whose opinion I totally respect and added to what has been said here it seems my impression of MLoR has not been the same as others.

Its a shame.

I still want to say that I never had any problems with the guy and he seems fine to me.

Zok, I think that was a MSN conversation. But either way it doesn't change what you said.

Edit: Well, I might - I might - infract for privacy violation. It would depend and I don't remember the details of that incident enough to say if I would for it or not.

Do you think a seperate thread for this should be made? I've only dealt with MLOR once or twice and both occassions were "interesting" to say the least, but I really would like to be kept more up to date on the downtime and outrages than the dealings of a rogue mod.

This thread is so far off topic it's hard to know what's going on, a think seperate thread would be more respectful to all parties involved...

Good idea.

New thread: http://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?p=9166174

Okay I've moved this to the other thread. Sorry!

Yoyo, I would not have said anything had I not felt strongly about it.

BTW, I sent you an email and it's rather important.

Ok it looks like everyone is awaiting my opinion on the matter of MLOR. I was originally trying to stay away from this conversation as MLOR is my neighbor and I know him IRL. But I am going to come right out and speak my mind on a few things because it is my JOB as an admin. This is not personal, its business (all though Im sure mlor will take it as personal anyhow). I admit I have changed my mind on him a couple of times through out his time here, just like many of us have. However after this last month or so, and after I think of everything since the begining of his time here, I am going to say that I do not believe that MLOR is supermod material. The things that he says in #totse not only make the site look bad, but makes the staff look even worse. On top of that he uses totse for his own personal revenge. Like was all ready stated above, he banned Pirate Hippy (who used to mod for us) because they broke up (and no, she didnt send anyone to break his legs, thats rediculous). Immaturity +1. Then he goes on a banning spree of 20 to 30 users because they posted a chat log of him talking dirty to some 13 year old child. Nothing in this chat log was personal information either. Again, thats some serious immaturity. On top of all of this, a lot of the shit that he has said in #totse lately makes me SERIOUSY wonder about his mental health. I dont know if its the drugs or drink or he just has some seriuos mental problems, but it seems like he hsa a hard time controlling himself. There are so many other incidents that I could bring up but I wont because I believe I have proven my point with what I said. I know MLOR is going to be pissy with me about this, but seriuosly man, you have to understand that Im admin and I have to share my thoughts whether you like them or not man. I understand if you arent going to talk me me ever again or whatever, but I gotta say what I gotta say if its in the sites best interest. There are a lot of people that think it might be best for you to take some time off man.

Well put. That's honest, straightforward and it's obvious that there is care in it.

Back on topic; are you going to start charging a fee to new users or were you simply tossing that around?

Yeah, I've heard this idea mentioned before...Any closer to a final decision?

Yeah, I've heard this idea mentioned before...Any closer to a final decision?

I'd much rather see a paypal donation system put into place. I've had a number of people try to paypal me money in the name of totse. I always refuse it and tell them to send money to the PO box - I hope they actually follow up on that.

IRC =/= The boards.

If you have a problem with how I operate in IRC, bring it up there, but that has nothing to do with how I operate on the boards.

Except when you got someone de-modded in &totse for what they talked about IRC that DIDN'T EVEN RELATE TO &totse mod business.

Except when you got someone de-modded in &totse for what they talked about IRC that DIDN'T EVEN RELATE TO &totse mod business.


I cannot appoint or remove mods. So your blame lies with either Zok, acidmelt, or Jeff, not me.

The other problem is that this place is crazy-popular. Even with registrations closed there are something like 50K+ unique users per day and close to 1 million page views per day. That's a lot for one server to handle. As much as I hate banks, I'm seriously thinking of getting a bank account, charging $5 for each new account, and putting the money into new servers for the site.

"All those in favor?"

Fucking I.

Charging for new accounts, as you already said, would help with the bandwidth and hardware problems. However, it would ALSO solve two other problems:

Idiots. As it was already pointed out in chat, there will always be people who will be morons; most will not PAY to be morons. Those that will will be still be helping by providing liquid for upkeep costs. Someone gets banned? They pay another $5 to get their account unbanned. (Basically, they pay for a new account.)
Donations. With a pay system set up, those of us who have been wanting to contribute for a while will have an easier means of doing so. I tried to add this feature in to the first evolution of Totse Reader, but I couldn't because there wasn't any way to do it.I'm all in favor of this, Jeff. I've been saying it for a while and I think it's time to do it.

I think that paying members should be able to get some bonus, but I dont think that we should charge for new members.

Some of you guys might remember when you found totse, right? I was 14-ish, and obviously didnt have a credit card or any way to paypal. The age cap is at 13, isnt it?

Maybe the paying accounts wont get ads, or just the ads on the side? The "sponsored links" are the ones I dont like the most, and the banners at least look good. Or perhaps a lower flood control length for paying members?

There are lots of interesting things that can be done. Perhaps we can open a thread for suggestions and let the regulars tell us what they would want if they actually payed for it?

Charging for new accounts would be great,it would also cut down on the number of spammers with multiple accounts.


Edit, never mind.
I'ma gonna send shiny.

I agree with Argon, I definitely think the accounts should remain free and we should just have a donation system.

There are a crapload of members who are willing/have been trying to make donations to Totse, and I think giving them that avenue will bring in the money necessary to keep Totse running while still keeping it free to use. $5 isn't a lot, sure, but like Argon said, a lot of members here (and not just the young ones, I'm sure) don't have plastic, and it would be a shame to exclude them. And besides, not everyone can afford a $5 fee, and it would suck to see them DQ'd. I mean, I can't even afford a $5 membership fee, ATM. Are you guys going to kick me out :(

I just think that the donation system, whether or not there are perks to donation, would be the best course of action.

Jeff, could you give us some idea of the monthly running costs? Its a bit impossible to discuss donations/membership fees without understanding the scale of the problem.

Here's an off the wall suggestion. How about only charging moderators a membership fee/expecting a donation of say $5 a month? Soon as you start charging members we're going to run into the 'I pay for this place so I can do what the fuck I like and if you infract me I'll stop paying' attitude.

People do you really want posters like Spectral or OinkThePig with Gold 3 Star Memberships?

Moding on totse is a privelige and I think most mods would be happy to donate/pay a small amount.

If half the mods donated $5 a month (hopefully it would be nearer 80% each month) would that go aways to easing the burden?

RECAP (cos I tend to express myself badly) Mods/admins would be expected to donate $5 a month or $50 a year (2 months rebate for payment in advance!).

Those who can't afford it simply don't pay that month, ain't no shame being a student/ being broke/in having spent the weeks money on booze and loose women.

Or guinea pig food. you forget guinea pig food.


Edit: I can see paying being a problem for some people. This could be difficult.

But there are HUNDREDS of people who actually want to donate,regularly, to totse.

But there are HUNDREDS of people who actually want to donate,regularly, to totse.

Ya think?

Jeff, remind us again how many people did actually buy a t-shirt/coffee mug?

I rest my case.

Thing is with Tshirts.. what if someone sees you wearing it and is like "ahhhh TOTSE!! IKILL YOU NOW!!"

I'd so want a totse coffee mug. If it was a decent size, that is.

I say: try out the paypal donations from those in the world who wish to donate and see where that goes.
Free speech has a value to some people who also, coincidentally, have extra cash hanging around.
It surely will bring in something.
Also, Jeff doesn't have to do it right on the first attempt.
If the donations don't pan out ... go to plan B.

Possible Plan B: with 50k unique users a day to pull from, a $1 membership fee could bring in tons more cash than the $4500/year charging the mods would.

$5 seems a bit pricey to me, as I remember not having any extra $ many a time as a college student, let alone a junior high schooler.

Again, any one plan doesn't have to work, but it never has a chance if it's never started.

If plan B doesn't work, on to plan C.
(I don't have a plan C yet, but you get the idea).

+++++++ edit

okay, I came up with a plan C.
Let's say the paypal plan to charge for membership is put into effect.
But for those without an account or without extra cash, there are a few times a year when you can sign up for free.
That window is announced in advance.
Maybe for a week every 3-4 months.
(Most art museums have one day a month when they open the doors for free for the less privileged).
That way someone who has money/account and wants to post will look at the impending wait as not worth it.
They will sign up then, as the $ is trifling.
The 14 year old without cash/paypal will wait out the months for the chance to join for free.
But, the odds are, during that wait, they will increase viewership as they plan for their first newbie acolyte posts.

I'm still against making users pay for a membership, but a think a middle-sized donation campaign could help the site out.

Not that I would be able to donate ether way, all my money is wrapped up in school and trying to live.

Donations, not fees.

It's a good decision to make. I think it would have a positive impact to give people an easy way to donate money.

What hardware is Totse currently running on?

-deus-

A z80 clocked at 6mhz.