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| My God Can Beat the Shit Out of Your God For discussing any and all religious viewpoints. Intolerance will not be tolerated. Keeping your sense of humor is required. Posting messages about theological paradoxes is encouraged. |
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# 1
2007-11-17, 01:57
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The Devil's Advocate
I believe I can argue a theists case against athiest or scientific doctrine better than a theist can...
Many times I have said "Christians have proved to the world they are unfit to rule, due to the inquistitions and crusades attributed directly to this faith." Not once has someone simply stated "Science has not had the opportunity to prove it's failings in ruling the world, give it time".
Christians may have murdered millions based on their beliefs, but science has the power to murder nearly all intelligent life on Earth. In fact, it is science that is destroying the planet and life with it, not theism. When the earth is scorched in nuclear holocaust and covered in glowing snows of a nuclear winter, tell me science is better than faith. Tell me science is not the work of the devil herself.
What do you guys think? Pretty good argument for theism, or at least against science? I will be the devil's advocate in this thread.
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# 2
2007-11-17, 02:55
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Regular
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http://tinyurl.com/28ozhm
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Re: The Devil's Advocate
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokeProphet
Christians may have murdered millions based on their beliefs, but science has the power to murder nearly all intelligent life on Earth. In fact, it is science that is destroying the planet and life with it, not theism. When the earth is scorched in nuclear holocaust and covered in glowing snows of a nuclear winter, tell me science is better than faith. Tell me science is not the work of the devil herself.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penicillin
What does faith have to offer again? The nuclear holocaust will be a result of a conflict between two people, that view each other as the enemy. Religion separates people. Science heals people.
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# 3
2007-11-17, 03:12
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Moderator
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Deep South
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Re: The Devil's Advocate
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokeProphet
Tell me science is not the work of the devil herself.
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Work!? Pssh. She doesn't even break a sweat when laboring with all that evil science. It's a walk in the park, a day at the beach and a very small task all rolled up into one.
You're playing the role of religious advocate to the hilt - assigning the female gender to the devil really makes your character more interesting, in a creepy-kinda-fundamentalist-way.
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# 4
2007-11-17, 04:34
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Re: The Devil's Advocate
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokeProphet
What do you guys think? Pretty good argument for theism, or at least against science? I will be the devil's advocate in this thread.
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It is not an argument for theism or religion at all. You can be a theist and pro science, and you can be an atheist and against science. Your argument is solely against the destructive power of science.
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# 5
2007-11-17, 05:56
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Re: The Devil's Advocate
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokeProphet
What do you guys think? Pretty good argument for theism, or at least against science?
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Nope.
But I bet you had a fun time thinking it up.
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# 6
2007-11-17, 06:20
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Re: The Devil's Advocate
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryFemme
Work!? Pssh. She doesn't even break a sweat when laboring with all that evil science. It's a walk in the park, a day at the beach and a very small task all rolled up into one.
You're playing the role of religious advocate to the hilt - assigning the female gender to the devil really makes your character more interesting, in a creepy-kinda-fundamentalist-way.
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You mean you didn't know that Lucifer (Lucy) was a woman? Haven't you ever watched the Mr. Deity series? Episode 5 introduces Lucy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKM_JlCIMak
You gotta see them all. They're great.
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# 7
2007-11-17, 21:13
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Moderator
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Deep South
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Re: The Devil's Advocate
Quote:
Originally Posted by truckfixr
You mean you didn't know that Lucifer (Lucy) was a woman? Haven't you ever watched the Mr. Deity series? Episode 5 introduces Lucy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKM_JlCIMak
You gotta see them all. They're great.
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I must say, truckfxr - that was pretty damned entertaining.
Thanks for sharing!
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# 8
2007-11-17, 22:42
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Re: The Devil's Advocate
Quote:
Originally Posted by Real.PUA
It is not an argument for theism or religion at all. You can be a theist and pro science, and you can be an atheist and against science. Your argument is solely against the destructive power of science.
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If you are of the desire to paint theism as directly oppressing science for a thousand years, then it was really theists who held back the destructive power of science. It was men of God, who in his name, excommunicated or killed scientists.
Science is knowledge. We ate from the tree of knowledge once and that cost us immortality, to eat from it again will cost us our mortality.
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# 9
2007-11-17, 22:48
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Re: The Devil's Advocate
Quote:
Originally Posted by truckfixr
You mean you didn't know that Lucifer (Lucy) was a woman? Haven't you ever watched the Mr. Deity series? Episode 5 introduces Lucy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKM_JlCIMak
You gotta see them all. They're great.
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+1.
Very funny.
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# 10
2007-11-19, 09:01
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Re: The Devil's Advocate
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokeProphet
If you are of the desire to paint theism as directly oppressing science for a thousand years, then it was really theists who held back the destructive power of science. It was men of God, who in his name, excommunicated or killed scientists.
Science is knowledge. We ate from the tree of knowledge once and that cost us immortality, to eat from it again will cost us our mortality.
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Not all theists oppressed scientists... and those that did did not oppress all scientific inquiry. They only oppressed that which contradicted their dogma.
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#11
2007-11-19, 20:42 |
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Re: The Devil's Advocate
Not all theists oppressed scientists... and those that did did not oppress all scientific inquiry. They only oppressed that which contradicted their dogma.
Which is pretty much all science at the time. The bible has cures for leprosy involving burnt offerings and animal sacrifice. The church let us all know that the mentally deranged and deformed were products of satan or demons in the flesh. Sickenss was bad blood that had to be leeched. The church let us all know where the Earth was in the universe (at the creamy center). How the Earth got here, and how old the Earth is.
I am speaking about Christians more so than other thiests here. Historically, the church has excommunicated and executed men of science. The church DID oppress science. Science by it's very nature MUST have a supernatural bias to be productive. The church, as you know, deals more with the supernatural than anything. Science conflicted with the church and the church responded with bloodshed. This bloodshed oppresses ALL science, as it puts fear in ALL those who would put forth a natural explanation for everything the church dubbed supernatural.
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#12
2007-11-19, 22:55 |
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Re: The Devil's Advocate
Quote:
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Originally Posted by BrokeProphet
I believe I can argue a theists case against athiest or scientific doctrine better than a theist can...
Many times I have said "Christians have proved to the world they are unfit to rule, due to the inquistitions and crusades attributed directly to this faith." Not once has someone simply stated "Science has not had the opportunity to prove it's failings in ruling the world, give it time".
Christians may have murdered millions based on their beliefs, but science has the power to murder nearly all intelligent life on Earth. In fact, it is science that is destroying the planet and life with it, not theism. When the earth is scorched in nuclear holocaust and covered in glowing snows of a nuclear winter, tell me science is better than faith. Tell me science is not the work of the devil herself.
What do you guys think? Pretty good argument for theism, or at least against science? I will be the devil's advocate in this thread.
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One way to reply to the argument would be as such:
Science is simply a method of inductive reasoning. It is not a system with any inherent bias toward destructiveness, nor evil acts. This method of reasoning is not the cause of such atrocities, but human power games which are political, economic, and religious in nature. None of these atrocities have been committed in the name of science, but many in the name of religion. |
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#13
2007-11-19, 23:06 |
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Re: The Devil's Advocate
One way to reply to the argument would be as such:
Science is simply a method of inductive reasoning. It is not a system with any inherent bias toward destructiveness, nor evil acts. This method of reasoning is not the cause of such atrocities, but human power games which are political, economic, and religious in nature. None of these atrocities have been committed in the name of science, but many in the name of religion.
I cannot argue this....
My first thought was to argue that the christian religion is not the cause of such artocities, but of human nature using the religion for evil purposes. That falls apart when you read the terrible fucked up shit God orders (kill fags, etc.) in his book. I could try to bullshit that across as a flimsy argument and hope to side track you enough to shine my point through some and save face.
I would, as the devil's advocate, try the aforementioned argument were it not for your last part...
None of these atrocities have been committed in the name of science, but many in the name of religion.
To which I am unable to even summon up a good line of bullshit against. Good work.
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#14
2007-11-26, 23:35 |
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Re: The Devil's Advocate
note that the harsh levitical laws were repealed by christ. he said that those laws were given to the isrealites in order to keep them seperate from the gentiles and their practices; not a bad idea considering the time.
but yeah, jesus said those laws are no more, because they were given to a harsh people with hard hearts. he instructed his followers to forgiveness, not retribution, going so far as to save a prostitute from stoning on one recorded occasion.
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#15
2007-11-27, 19:59 |
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Moderator
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Wasilla, Alaska
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Re: The Devil's Advocate
^Actually, recent text analysis indicates that the "cast the first stone" incident never happened.
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