One of my kids doesn't get on with his best mate's girlfriend.

So I told him the following anecdote:

Back in the non-politically correct day it was custom for the Rabbi to congratulate the Groom on the beauty of his bride.

One day a group of student rabbi's asked their wise teacher 'but Rabbi, what if his bride is as ugly as a horses arse and she only found a husband because her father could afford an enormous dowry?'

The Teacher replied ' Young Padawan (or whatever the yiddish is) Beauty isn't skin deep, HA-Schem sees the heart. So compliment her beauty but mean her inner beauty'

The students however then said 'But Rabbi, what if she's the town "bury me in a Y-shaped coffin" bike? If her knees are so far apart they are pen pals? How can we compliment her beauty then?!'

The Teacher thought long and then replied "You lie and God help you if you snigger".

You get the point? Sometimes being a real friend means even faking that you like his appalling girlfriend.

[/end randomness and the lesson for today]

The Jack is wise.

The Jack is wise.

true.

jack, you should have, like, a series. do a new one every day. impart your (near) infinite knowledge unto us or some shit like that.

Real friends don't lie to their friends.

Doesn't mean they can't respectfully hold their tongue on the subject though.

Good advice, that is if she makes him happy.

I want to read your memoirs Jack. :)

-F☺rd

I have this problem with my brother's bitch.

What I do is stay away from her.
However. if we must be in the same place, I just won't say a word to her.

Thats the truth of it. If a girl is ugly/bitchy/etc you owe it to your friend to tell him straight up. However, if he chooses to continue with the course of action, never bring it up again.

My first thought was that, no, I'd have a hard enough time lying to anyone, especially a friend... wouldn't happen.

Then I realized, that, though I do have friends, this has never come up. I think a plus of having a good friendship is one in which the conversation doesn't rely on that sort of nonsense...

That being said, I'm not exactly the norm when it comes to things like this, so I'm sure that ketch's method will work just fine for most.

I'd never comment on a friends' girlfriends' looks. That's his business.

But if she's a bitch in my presence then I'm gonna have to say something.

jack is like the dr.phil of totse.

But Rabbi, what if the girl is a ginger and her idea of foreplay is saying....'OMGZ, let's go back to my place to make-out'???????

The Jack is wise, indeed.

Faking to like someone isn't cool.

There's always something good or positive about someone; simply focus on that.

I've always been able to see the inner beauty in my friend's girls.

It's when you can see how they're hurting your friend that you are motivated to do something... and when it's hardest to keep from saying something.

And then I'm gonna be forced to break your face, don't matter none that we've been friends since kindergarten.

You get my point?

I expect my friends to show me the same respect i show them and only teenage americans believe in the nonsense of 'bros before ho's'.

I don't think the old time rabbis could imagine such depravity.

There's usually a reason your friend is going out with a girl. All you have to do is realise what it is. Sometimes it takes a while to see that someone is actually a pretty cool human being.

And then I'm gonna be forced to break your face, don't matter none that we've been friends since kindergarten.

I don't know if this is an age-difference-thing or a location-difference-thing, but there's no fucking way any of my friends would lay a hand on me for giving them some constructive criticism. (And yes, "Your girlfriend's an absolute bitch" is constructive criticism.)

I mean, how much would you be willing to put up with for your friend? I've never had a friend date a girl who was that intolerable. But my point is that I do have limits.

I will tell my friend that he needs to have a talk with his girlfriend about her behavior. Failing that, I just tell him that I can't be around her and that I'll just see him whenever I see him.

This "bros-vs-hos" thing works both ways. I don't expect him to only date girls that I approve of, but likewise, I wouldn't expect him to expect me to be around someone I can't stand.

If his girlfriend is that important to him. Then it's probably best we just part ways.

I'm a bit intoxicated but I'm pretty sure that still made sense...

EDIT: Basically though, I have a low tolerance for shitty people.

This is a good point. Sometimes I've had to fake being amicable and liking someone then I have ended up really liking them...or even ended up in bed with them!

I don't know if this is an age-difference-thing or a location-difference-thing, but there's no fucking way any of my friends would lay a hand on me for giving them some constructive criticism. (And yes, "Your girlfriend's an absolute bitch" is constructive criticism.)


Nope it isn't constructive criticism , its just disrespectful. Maybe it is an age thing but if you said that to me you'd be taking the remains of your face home in your hanky.

Nope it isn't constructive criticism , its just disrespectful. Maybe it is an age thing but if you said that to me you'd be taking the remains of your face home in your hanky.

Weird.

I've always just been one to speak my mind when necessary and I've never had to worry about friends hitting me for it.

Back when the Earth was just cooling down and i was in college I had my first real non imaginary girlfriend.

All her friends LOATHED me with a passion and I DETESTED them.

But her friends always made the effort to amicable towards me.

Guess how many of them I ended up bedding within that year? (We had a very open relationship!)

Weird.

I've always just been one to speak my mind when necessary and I've never had to worry about friends hitting me for it.

Saying you don't like her is speaking your mind. Calling her a bitch is just rude and disrespectful towards her and me.

It could also be called being polite.

But friends always made the effort to amicable towards me.

Yeah, and I said I'd be willing to do that too. But only so far.

I had this one friend who's girlfriend was absolutely ridiculous. She was always barking orders at people and all this other crap. And she even hit me on a regular basis. Why should I have to put up with that just for my friends's happiness?

I dunno. When people get like that around me I just can't deal with it so I avoid them. Even if it means never seeing my friend again.

Saying you don't like her is speaking your mind. Calling her a bitch is just rude and disrespectful towards her and me.

Why should I respect disrespectful people??????

My brothers girlfriend is such a person.
She's just... so fucking hostile. And bossy. And unfriendly.
Used to be I could go visit my brother,chill for a bit and then be on my merry way, but now he lives with the psychohobbit-bitch she's allways around and she's allways so...stressy.
It's like, I'll be invited round by my brother (one thing I learnt early on when they started living together was to never show up uninvited) and he'll let me in, she'll be hovering around kind of saying "soo..what's up? what do you want?".

Maybe I'm just finding reasons to dislike her. She claims to be a 'witch', ie, she wears pentacles and buys 'real magical herbs!'. As far as I know she doesent actually do anything, or try, or do any form of witchery other than sprinkle cinnamon, sorry, magical herbs, into her tea.
If she ever actually tried any crafting,which she doesent, for example, if she tried to save a sick dying animal and cut her own arms open to let the warm blood touch the animal to give it some of her health and to try and take it's illness into her own body, then I might respect her a little. Untill she does something like that then she should keep her bullshit claims to herself.



As it is, I just cannot be bothered to go see my brother anymore. It's too stressfull, I feel like an intruder,and having her pacing around in the background asking "so what time do you have to leave, bek?" in a annoyed tone makes me want to punch her.

Bye bye, bro. I cant tell him the person he's just got a goddamn mortgage with and dedicated the last 5 or so years of his life with is a cow, can I?

Why should I respect disrespectful people??????

My having a girlfriend you can't stand isn't disrespectful towards you. Calling her a bitch to my face is.

If she's disrespectful towards you then as my friend you can tell me, repsectfully of course.

But mouth off about her though, call her a bitch in my presence and all our friendship won't stop me performing some unnecessary dental surgery on you.

But I agree with you that if you can't be amicable then avoidance is the best policy.

Bye bye, bro. I cant tell him the person he's just got a goddamn mortgage with and dedicated the last 5 or so years of his life with is a cow, can I?

Would you have at the beginning, though, if you had the chance?

If she's disrespectful towards you then as my friend you can tell me, repsectfully of course.

That's EXACTLY what I've been saying (or at least trying to...)

Telling my friend his girlfriend's a bitch isn't "disrespectful." Bitch is a pretty versatile term. I mean, if some woman cuts me off in line at the grocery store, I'll be thinking "God, what a bitch!". If some waitress asks me to hurry up when taking my order, I'll be thinking "Wow, what a bitch!"

I've just never really thought of the word 'bitch' as being such a bad thing... I mean, it's not like calling a black person a nigger.........

And God.. if you wanna talk about respect among friends' for their girlfriends.. you should hear some of the stuff my friends would say about MY girlfriends in the past. Jesus Christ...

Fuck, and at least I have the decency to bite my tongue before making any comments on looks..

I had to deal with that shit on a REGULAR BASIS when I had a girlfriend.

Maybe that's the difference here. I'm used to having to deal with hearing the worst shit you could possibly hear about every girl my friends have ever seen me with...

doesent, for example, if she tried to save a sick dying animal and cut her own arms open to let the warm blood touch the animal to give it some of her health and to try and take it's illness into her own body, then I might respect her a little.

I get the horrible feeling you actually tried that :(

Thing is with all 'magic' part is sheer force of will (which you no doubt have) but also focus and that takes a long time to learn.

Just the energy of desperately wanting to save said animal isn't enough (otherwise no child's pet would ever die). That energy has to be focused to white hot...to a point if you like, hence the Athane.

Yep believe it or not peoples, jack actually knows something about magic.

That's EXACTLY what I've been saying (or at least trying to...)

Telling my friend his girlfriend's a bitch isn't "disrespectful." Bitch is a pretty versatile term. I mean, if some woman cuts me off in line at the grocery store, I'll be thinking "God, what a bitch!". If some waitress asks me to hurry up when taking my order, I'll be thinking "Wow, what a bitch!"

I've just never really thought of the word 'bitch' as being such a bad thing... I mean, it's not like calling a black person a nigger.........

And God.. if you wanna talk about respect among friends' for their girlfriends.. you should hear some of the stuff my friends would say about MY girlfriends in the past. Jesus Christ...

I'm confused here gadzoooks....help clear the way for me. You'll without hesitation tell a FRIEND that his girlfriend is a bitch. Like Jack said.....your friend is someone you obviously have some kind of positive feelings for, some kind or respect. But in the grocery store someone cuts you off, you just THINK it....and not say it. Why not call that whore a bitch too? I mean really, you don't have any respect or "love" for a total stranger....all she is is just a miserable bag of flesh invading your space.

My point is.....why with people that you KNOW will you not pull any punches, but to strangers you exercise control and restraint? Makes no sense to me.....

I don't know who to credit for this, but for what it is worth:

"Beauty is only skin deep... but ugly goes clear down to the bone."

QFMFT!!!!!!!!

Ya know how that first day of school, everyone wants to wear that "best" outfit to make that first impression to all their classmates and teachers? That EXACT saying (along with a skull) was on a the T-shirt I wore first day of school my senior year....

I'm confused here gadzoooks....help clear the way for me. You'll without hesitation tell a FRIEND that his girlfriend is a bitch. Like Jack said.....your friend is someone you obviously have some kind of positive feelings for, some kind or respect. But in the grocery store someone cuts you off, you just THINK it....and not say it. Why not call that whore a bitch too? I mean really, you don't have any respect or "love" for a total stranger....all she is is just a miserable bag of flesh invading your space.

My point is.....why with people that you KNOW will you not pull any punches, but to strangers you exercise control and restraint? Makes no sense to me.....

That wasn't really the point. The point was that the term 'bitch' isn't all that bad.

My friends have referred to my ex's as bitch, slut, whore, and much worse, etc..

So naturally, I don't see the big deal in using that terminology on their significant others.

So naturally, I don't see the big deal in using that terminology on their significant others.

What happens when they get married?

My Rabbi tells that story :D

That wasn't really the point. The point was that the term 'bitch' isn't all that bad.

My friends have referred to my ex's as bitch, slut, whore, and much worse, etc..

So naturally, I don't see the big deal in using that terminology on their significant others.

Screw the semantics of the word "bitch". Insert whatever derogatory term. I don't get how you will willingly verbalize negative vibes to people you "like/respect".....but clam up to total strangers? I can't rationalize the psychology behind that mindset.

What happens when they get married?

I don't really see why things would change all that much... I mean, I'm not going to associate with someone who's a rude or condescending bitch for my whole life. So I guess the friendship would just fall apart...?

Screw the semantics of the word "bitch". Insert whatever derogatory term. I don't get how you will willingly verbalize negative vibes to people you "like/respect".....but clam up to total strangers? I can't rationalize the psychology behind that mindset.

BECAUSE THEY DO IT TO ME.

So it's normal among us.

How else do I explain that?

My friends rip on me for stupid little things, so I do it back.

How do I know if a complete stranger is going to take more offense to the word "bitch" than my friends would?

So it actually is about semantics.

BECAUSE THEY DO IT TO ME.

So it's normal among us.

How else do I explain that?

My friends rip on me for stupid little things, so I do it back.

How do I know if a complete stranger is going to take more offense to the word "bitch" than my friends would?

So it actually is about semantics.

I guess you are missing my point.....

If you are with a bunch of friends, I would expect you to take a bit more care/caution with your words.....because of the risk of pissing someone off, hurting their feelings, putting a strain on the friendship.

Whereas the cunt that just cut in line at the grocery store....there is NOTHING to lose. Who gives a fuck if you offended her or pissed her off? It was her fuck up in the first place, and you are just countering her ignorant self-entitlement with a nice dose of harsh insolence.

Listen I get "talking smack" with your buddies. Hell, I'm the king at it still in my 30's. But in the context of this thread, I thought we were discussing serious and legitimate analysis of people's mates. Not...."your girl is a hoe", "yeah, well yours is a slut"...."yeah well your girl sucks off 14" niggers". That is completely different that what Jack is discussing.

So when you are making these negative comments about your friend's girls....is it just all in fun with usual jive talk bullshit...the game that it is? Or is it sincere and legitimate analysis? If its just the "game" part of it....then ignore everything I've mentioned in this thread.

But if there IS sincerity, then I'll never understand why you'll take a "risk" with scathing words to a friend......yet be so concerned about pissing off a total stranger.

So when you are making these negative comments about your friend's girls....is it just all in fun with usual jive talk bullshit...the game that it is? Or is it sincere and legitimate analysis? If its just the "game" part of it....then ignore everything I've mentioned in this thread.

But if there IS sincerity, then I'll never understand why you'll take a "risk" with scathing words to a friend......yet be so concerned about pissing off a total stranger.

I guess I don't really have 'sincere' talks with my friends about their relationships.

Occasionally THEY will ask ME for feedback. In which case I'll just tell them everything as it is. I don't see the point in lying when they want honest feedback.

There are more subtle ways of telling someone you like their boyfriend/girlfriend is awfull.

Back when I lived with my mum she was dating this horrible little man.Creepy, nasty,lying, fucked up little shit.I think because she felt sorry for him and wanted to 'help' him.
I put thumb tacks in his shoes and let his tires down on a regular basis. Of course this was sooo subtle he never knew it was me..and my mum never said anything but.. she knew. She knew.


Generally if a friend of yours is dating someone who you think is awfull, is it not just easier to not see that friend for a while or to limit how often you see them?
No doubt when the relationship crumbles they'll come back to being your buddy again. Assuming you want them back as a friend!

Generally if a friend of yours is dating someone who you think is awfull, is it not just easier to not see that friend for a while or to limit how often you see them?

Of course I would do that, and have done that. I'm not going to associate with someone who gets on my nerves.

But I feel I should at least let my friend know why I refuse to hang out with him anymore. Personally, I think leaving them in the dark about that is a shitty thing to do.

But apparently being a good friend involves false flattery and deceit.

But apparently being a good friend involves false flattery and deceit.

Well it does at times.. atleast for girls.
Imagine, you've got a friend who's..how can we put it, ugly?
And you're clothes shopping together, and she see's an awesome dress and gets really excited because it's nice..and even happier when she tries it on and it FITS!
Thing is..it looks pretty bad. Not awfull, but she doesent look like the Marilyn Monroe she thinks she see's in the mirror.

It's hard to walk the thin line here. Do you tell her she looks awesome, which will make her feel great, but she'll be being laughed at when she goes out in the dress?

Or do you tell her it looks.. not so great, crush her mood horribly, make her feel even more insecure and unhappy and feel like shit as she puts the dress back on the clothes rack and runs off to vomit?

It's hard to walk the thin line here. Do you tell her she looks awesome, which will make her feel great, but she'll be being laughed at when she goes out in the dress?

That must be tough. Makes me kinda glad that I don't really have to deal with that.

Thankfully my friends don't usually ask me how they look when they try something on. But if they did.. I really don't know what I would do.