[NOTE: This is NOT, repeat NOT, a thread about the rights and wrongs of abortion. I will edit, delete and generally act like a fascist piglet inorder to keep this thread vaguely on topic]

This weekend the brit Abortion Act (ie allowing abortion) celebrated its 40th birthday.

Since it came into force there have officially been over 6 million abortions (the real figure is probably a lot higher still).

Obviously as a pro-lifer I find that upsetting but strangely enough the Pro-choicers I know IRL seem to find it worrying too.

Totse Pro Choicers, what do you think? Do you think it says something about our society, the quality of sex ed in schools?

As far as I am aware the figures for the rest of Euro-land are similar.

Well, I also think I read somewhere that per capita the UK has the highest instances of STDs.

So really, its probably a case of more than a few kids not knowing about 'no glove, no love'.

Especially when I think condoms are 2 quid from a bathroom.

Thats $5! For one!

I honestly don't remember anything from sex-ed in school, other than learning anatomy, kinda. Nothing of the "condom on a banana" type things. Sooo I'm going to go ahead and say sex education in schools is disgraceful. That, and that 6 million tells me waaaay too many morons are attempting to breed. Sterilization should be looked into at this point.

It only works out to 150 000/year on average.

It only works out to 150 000/year on average.

Yep, last year it was 200,000.

200,000 teenagers who despite sex ed, constant media reminders, and free condoms with every packet of cornflakes, were still too stupid to get him to 'wrap it'?

Somehow that seems implausible.

Screw years. It works out to be over 410 a day. 17 Abortions an hour.

At least Britain isn't that overcrowded.

I think that it's great. Imagine our world with another 6 million people, most of them being raised by kids.

It's also great that 6million people had the opportunity to have successfull abortions done by proffesionals.

As I think abortions are a valid form of birth control, I'm glad those people made the decision that was best for themselves. Society should not dictate their life.

Yep, last year it was 200,000.

200,000 teenagers who despite sex ed, constant media reminders, and free condoms with every packet of cornflakes, were still too stupid to get him to 'wrap it'?

Somehow that seems implausible.
All of those abortions were probably not performed on teenagers. There are plenty of older gals who get pregnant by accident too.

I think it's unfortunate that so many people are lax with their contraceptives...But there are always going to be dumbasses out there. Best that they don't breed anyway, IMO, because then they just clutter up the world with their "mistakes."

It seems there are a lot of dumb people fucking. But how can I complain if they are voluntarily going to kill their unborn children? I choose population control.

I find this statistic quite reassuring. That means there have been 6 million preventions of what would have been an increase to a group that is very likely to end up as a criminal, on the public dole, drug users, etc.

Like in that book Freakonomics. The decline in violent crime in the USA in the 1990s was probably the result of abortion becoming legal across the country about 20 years before, with single women from working class neighborhoods now not being forced to have economically dangerous and unwanted children with no known father, and these children being the ones most likely to become criminals, dependent on welfare, druggies, vote Democrat(ZING!), and overall perpetuate the poverty cycle again.

Roe v. Wade and abortion removed a huge number of what would have ended up degenerate peoples, and the society then saw an overall downturn in criminal violence.

well I guess 6 million is a significant percentage. A lot of thoughtless people it looks like.

Ultimately this worries me in the sense that people are relying on expensive, insurance covered procedures to deal with problems they could cover themselves. Further mass dependency on this sort of thing can't be a good thing; it's like private taxation.

Or, wait, do you have some sort of government health care system over there? Same concept really if so. If this sort of thing goes on people will go further and further away from being able to take care of themselves without state or corporate intervention.

As a pro-choicer, even I think that's fucking RIDICULOUS. Abortions are for babies that are unwanted, ie, rapes, broken condoms, etc. They are not for fucking around like a whore and having a safety net. In fact, abortions should only be given to girls on the pill. If you're on the pill and you fuck up, it's understandable. If you're whoring around, then have fun wasting the next 18 years of your life.

And have fun ruining the life of your children? Your logic is broken and it punishes the children.

And have fun ruining the life of your children? Your logic is broken and it punishes the children.

No, the only reason I'm pro-choice is because I believe those kids are better off dead than getting raised in families where they would be unwanted.

But most people who have sex these days need to be smacked upside the head. Don't have sex thinking "it's ok, I'll get an abortion". Abortions are strictly a failsafe.

If it was up to me, all women would have their tubes tied. When they were ready to have children, they'd get them untied and be on their way to a great life.

The percentage of that 6 million that IS the result of rape is probably far higher than anyone would like to think. Failed contraceptives? Eh, probably not that much. Utter carelessness, stupidity, and/or drug/alcohol induced bad decision making? Ugh. Humanity is better off without those babies. Again, sterilization. Smoke crack? BOOM! Your uterus is now a barren wasteland.

:)

All of those abortions were probably not performed on teenagers. There are plenty of older gals who get pregnant by accident too.

I agree with this. In industrialized countries, birthrates from the native born citizens are in the negatives. Thats what you get in first world, capitalistic societies... selfish people. People so worried about their own lives and careers, that they don't even take a second thought about others (even potential children). In these types of places you get people who worry that having children will ruin their careers. Forget about the fact that each and everyone one of us is an insignificant speck in the infinite things occurring within our universe. I guess as long as we think of ourselves as being important and our lives so fragile, we will always have this self delusion that we can make a difference and, therefore, must take care of ourselves above all else by any means necessary.

For a country of that size, you should be pleased.



But to be serious, thats a little worrying that sex-ed isn't seeming to get through to some people, I remember a lot of sex-ed, but more classes when we were younger on pubity.

The world is already on the verge of being over populated. There's already talk of a lack of fresh water and other resources... now imagine an extra 6 million people. Not to mention how many of those six million might have had one or more kids in the past forty years.

It's sick and it's sad, but it's population control. Now medical technology is keeping people alive longer and longer, and more resources are being used to support them and everybody else. Either abort the babies now or let them or their descendants starve later.

As far as I'm concerned, the majority of abortions there are problematic, not accounting for health/rape related abortions.

Yeah, condoms are a beautiful thing, same with birth control.
Hell, if I were in a relationship right now, and they started letting us Americans have at the new male birth control... I'd do that, a condom, and have the willing compadre use the female kind.

Nobody even cares about pregnancy until the next morning, when they're grabbing the morning-after pill with their smokes.

Holy fucking shit! That's the first post by you I've seen in years.

More numbers please, I'm not going to go looking for total population/demographic/abortion cost numbers myself, as I'm far too lazy.

Despite having two kids at age 19, I'm one of the bigger pro-choicers out there. I'll stop there, lest jack edit my post to oblivion. ^^

Maybe this is a glimpse at what the future holds, in terms of unwanted pregnancy. If such a large amount of people are willing to ignore the "What ifs?" of sex, despite our money and efforts, maybe we should stop funding those programs and spend more money on abortion clinics/abortion research methods. I mean, surely we're not performing the abortions as efficiently as possible. The real fear, for pro-choicers, is money. Why not work toward a future where the abortions are actually cheaper, and perhaps even easier, than condoms? This brings up STDs of course, but hopefully humanity will reach a point where that's a non-issue.

I also agree with mass-sterilization.

As has been said, abortions aren't all bad. My mother works as a foster parent, and let me tell you, the world is better off without another 6 million of these unwanted, chemically altered, dysfunctional children.

As far as I am concerned, abortion doesn't even scratch the surface of population control. The first big step towards the death of natural selection was penicillin. Now all the safety measures, to make sure stupid people can't hurt themselves.

This is why there are still so many stupid people on earth.

Take the "this is not a toy" labels off of plastic bags for fucks sake.

I firmly believe that a male birth control pill will eliminate the issue of abortions altogether.

Abortion kind of bothers me, but I still consider myself pro-choice. The thing that bothers me is what all those aborted babies could have accomplished. With all those millions that never existed, there is a good chance there were some pro athletes in there, maybe the next president, and history is altered because of it.

DeliPro, look at the flipside. Out of those 6 million, there was also the guy that could have killed the guy alive today that is going to find a cure for cancer, or make cold fusion feasible.

[highlight]
Totse Pro Choicers, what do you think? Do you think it says something about our society, the quality of sex ed in schools?

I am a pro choicer. And before I even got to the part of your post that I quoted, I was already thinking to myself "my god, its a good thing its legal/'ok' to have abortions, what if there were that many more people?" And I'm not sure how long it would have taken me to get to thinking about things like what you said, heh.

I don't find that number upsetting at all. I don't see any reason to.

I am a pro choicer. And before I even got to the part of your post that I quoted, I was already thinking to myself "my god, its a good thing its legal/'ok' to have abortions, what if there were that many more people?" And I'm not sure how long it would have taken me to get to thinking about things like what you said, heh.

I don't find that number upsetting at all. I don't see any reason to.

Is it just me, or have half of the people in this thread missed the point?

I find the number kind of upsetting. Why? Compare the cost of 6 million abortions to the cost of 6 million condoms, and consider that a good portion of the money spent was tax money (be it directly with state-funded clinics, or indirectly with state-funded insurance). Who is that hurting? Me.

Is it just me, or have half of the people in this thread missed the point?

I find the number kind of upsetting. Why? Compare the cost of 6 million abortions to the cost of 6 million condoms, and consider that a good portion of the money spent was tax money (be it directly with state-funded clinics, or indirectly with state-funded insurance). Who is that hurting? Me.

Sounds like a good reason to end the entitlement mentality people in postindustrial western nations have. No one should have their livelihood coming out of the extorted efforts of others, and no one should expect to give up money before the barrel of a gun to support someone else's every whim and often self-inflicted hardships. There Aint No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.

Sounds like a good reason to end the entitlement mentality people in postindustrial western nations have. No one should have their livelihood coming out of the extorted efforts of others, and no one should expect to give up money before the barrel of a gun to support someone else's every whim and often self-inflicted hardships. There Aint No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.

That's ridiculous in so many ways, yo..

I'm not relevant with the Brit's laws on sex ed, but here in America, the basic sex ed is SCREW AND DIE. Contraception, generally isn't even mentioned. To answer your question I think that really does say something about your sex ed.

A newborn baby would be a beautiful addition to my life at this point, but 12-15 year olds just aren't ready for it, so I'm kind of 50/50 on the subject. 6 million abortions is alot of damage to each individual who experienced ot, not to mention your economy.

Could you fill me in to as what your sex ed is?

I was pro abortion untill i had to go through it with my girlfriend.

the pill failed to work, she got pregnant, and honestly i don't think she ever got over it.

i mean just seeing her sitting there all pregnant and glowing was just the most beautiful thing i wanted to cry, it was so hard to go through with it, i just remember crying ALOT.

I used to be so Pro abortion, but now i don't know, it should be easier to get an abortion quicker so it is less traumatic, my girlfriend had to wait 4 weeks to get one and by then she was 14 weeks gone and it would have been so much easier at 10 weeks.

i mean we fucked up too, because we panicked and didn't get it sorted right away we left it late so its partly our fault but we still had to wait a long time.

^ Pro-Choice, not Pro-Abortion. kthnx.

i mean just seeing her sitting there all pregnant and glowing was just the most beautiful thing i wanted to cry, it was so hard to go through with it, i just remember crying ALOT.


Pussy.

^ Pro-Choice, not Pro-Abortion. kthnx.

Big whoop.

The 'overpopulation' argument probably doesn't apply to the UK. Sure its 6 million less but anyone care to look up the stats on how many millions of immigrants we've enticed here/allowed in over the last 40 years?

Well jackketch, I agree with the overpopulation argument, and I also disagree with the UKs liberal immigration policy.

Muhahahah, I'm becoming one of those in just over a year.
I can even hold a British passport cause of your nice rules.

But then again, England is the Mother land.

Pussy.



Big whoop.


at 14 weeks you kind of get attached to it, and if you have ever seen a beutiful girl carrying your child you would know it is a beautiful thing.

pro choice is just a nice word for it.

jakketch! what the fuck are YOU doing up at this time of day?

jakketch! what the fuck are YOU doing up at this time of day?

Uhm its 08:40 here, a weekday, of course I'm up. Not yet human but up...sorta..kinda...maybe

*sips 4th coffee*

Anyway my crippled kid needs to see the doc and if you don't phone the doctors here at 08:30 on the dot then you won't get to see a doctor today.

Muhahahah, I'm becoming one of those in just over a year.
I can even hold a British passport cause of your nice rules.

But then again, England is the Mother land.

I would suggest we meet up but we'd only end up in bed and then we'd have no choice but to kill ourselves :P

I would suggest we meet up but we'd only end up in bed and then we'd have no choice but to kill ourselves :P

That sounds like a lovely way to spend an afternoon.

But then again, England is the Mother land.

Only to Christchurchians and a few inbred aristocrats in the Kenyan highlands...

My 2 cents: as a pro-choicer these statistics do not bother me as not one of those killed potential children were mine.

Myself, I believe that 6 million is a good start. And it actually gives me a sense of hope more than anything. Because that tells me that people are actually making huge important life altering decisions with their MINDS and not their hearts. Too many people do things any more based on emotional WANTS, and completely throw out logic and reason.

The poster above is a good example. No matter how hard the process was/still is, they made a tough decision for THEIR situation.....and didn't get so wrapped up in the emotions. To Stormshadow I ask......are you still with that girl?

Is this indicative to how efficient sex ed is in schools? Perhaps. But as far as I'm concerned sex ed should NOT be falling on the shoulders of the school system. Nope, it should be coming from the parents. Now if the parents are too embarrased and inhibited to have that talk with their kids giving them ALL the facts about sex.....then in my book they shouldn't have had kids themselves. Parenting isn't always easy, and many times through your life you'll be encountered with difficult and perhaps embarrasing scenarios with them. That is the role of a responsible ADULT......to guide and educate them. Jack, I just gotta ask.....did you give your kids sex ed or rely on the schools to give them their knowledge? In the all time I've been reading your posts I believe you to be a model and great parent. It seems you have an open door policy and are willing to discuss/teach those hard life lessons to your kids no matter their age. That IS what a good parent does. Not burden someone else with those tough scenarios.

Lastly, I'd just like to comment that those numbers don't necessarily have anything to do with education either. It could just be a "I don't give a fuck mentality". I'm a great example of that. Of all the dozens upon dozens of broads I banged in my time, I'd say only 2 or maybe 3 were what I would deem capable of having kids.....especially worthy of having MY children. Did I use protection with all of them, or know they were using protection? Hardly! But if any of the others had gotten preggo, it would have been a no-brainer....off to the clinic to schedule an abortion. And if they didn't go willingly, I would have hired someone to induce it artificially by throwing her down some stairs or inflict a sound beating. Again making a conscious THOUGHT OUT decision, rather than just playing some emotional game.

For those that don't understand that concept, its just a matter of gambling. Getting pregnant isn't THAT easy, and I was just playing the odds. To my knowledge none of them did get preggo, but if they would have I would have made that choice. I know the risks/ways a girl gets pregnant.......yet I didn't take precaution because of that gamble. And for those saying ....."well abortion isn't meant to be birth control"....my response to you is that is YOUR morality you are trying to force upon me. Yes it is the final CHOICE in preventing births and unwanted children. And I would have elected to go that route had the situation ever happened.

Again, that isn't testament to my knowledge or understanding of the birds and the bees.....instead just an indicator of my morality. When reading statistics like this very often people read into those numbers their OWN sense of morals....and sometimes that is not an accurate assessment.

Myself, I believe that 6 million is a good start. And it actually gives me a sense of hope more than anything. Because that tells me that people are actually making huge important life altering decisions with their MINDS and not their hearts. Too many people do things any more based on emotional WANTS, and completely throw out logic and reason.

The poster above is a good example. No matter how hard the process was/still is, they made a tough decision for THEIR situation.....and didn't get so wrapped up in the emotions. To Stormshadow I ask......are you still with that girl?

Is this indicative to how efficient sex ed is in schools? Perhaps. But as far as I'm concerned sex ed should NOT be falling on the shoulders of the school system. Nope, it should be coming from the parents. Now if the parents are too embarrased and inhibited to have that talk with their kids giving them ALL the facts about sex.....then in my book they shouldn't have had kids themselves. Parenting isn't always easy, and many times through your life you'll be encountered with difficult and perhaps embarrasing scenarios with them. That is the role of a responsible ADULT......to guide and educate them. Jack, I just gotta ask.....did you give your kids sex ed or rely on the schools to give them their knowledge? In the all time I've been reading your posts I believe you to be a model and great parent. It seems you have an open door policy and are willing to discuss/teach those hard life lessons to your kids no matter their age. That IS what a good parent does. Not burden someone else with those tough scenarios.

Lastly, I'd just like to comment that those numbers don't necessarily have anything to do with education either. It could just be a "I don't give a fuck mentality". I'm a great example of that. Of all the dozens upon dozens of broads I banged in my time, I'd say only 2 or maybe 3 were what I would deem capable of having kids.....especially worthy of having MY children. Did I use protection with all of them, or know they were using protection? Hardly! But if any of the others had gotten preggo, it would have been a no-brainer....off to the clinic to schedule an abortion. And if they didn't go willingly, I would have hired someone to induce it artificially by throwing her down some stairs or inflict a sound beating. Again making a conscious THOUGHT OUT decision, rather than just playing some emotional game.

For those that don't understand that concept, its just a matter of gambling. Getting pregnant isn't THAT easy, and I was just playing the odds. To my knowledge none of them did get preggo, but if they would have I would have made that choice. I know the risks/ways a girl gets pregnant.......yet I didn't take precaution because of that gamble. And for those saying ....."well abortion isn't meant to be birth control"....my response to you is that is YOUR morality you are trying to force upon me. Yes it is the final CHOICE in preventing births and unwanted children. And I would have elected to go that route had the situation ever happened.

Again, that isn't testament to my knowledge or understanding of the birds and the bees.....instead just an indicator of my morality. When reading statistics like this very often people read into those numbers their OWN sense of morals....and sometimes that is not an accurate assessment.

Excellent post, +50 imaginary rep even if your're wrong :P

Uhm sex ed and my kids....

My kids went to primary school in Germany which meant from the tender age of about 6 they got quite graphic Sex Ed ('draw Hans and Gretel together in the shower'-no I am not joking!).

Which frankly shocked me. I was happy for them to have Sex Ed young but not quite that young! Whatever happened to the sweet innocence of child hood?

But yes we gave them Sex Ed at home too.

I did a thread a while back...I'll look for it.

DaGuru, found it....

Sex Ed a la jackketch

Just before Xmas my eldest son (16)attended his first all night Rave/Party.

I thought i'd post a conversation i had with him before he went ...there's an important point about contraception.

Because i knew he had already spent his monthly allowance i handed him a bottle of whiskey, some cash and 3 pack of condoms to take with him (yeah, i suck as a parent!)

Me:" A word to the wise,son. Even if she says she's on the pill you still use a condom!".

Him (bored tone):" Dad, we did do contraception at school!"

Me:" They told you the facts i'm sure but not the entire story, not the full SP"

Him: (looks surprised):"HUh?"

Me:"what did they tell you about the pill?"

Him:"That it is 99.9999% sure"

Me:"you missed a bit...its 99.9999% sure WHEN USED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE MANUFACTURER'S INSTRUCTIONS !"

Him:"So??"

Me:"Sooo how many girls do you know who can program the DVD player?"

Him: *look of horrified realisation flashes across his face*

Me:"when she says she's on the pill, do you know which one, how its supposed to be taken and if she has had the shits in the last week ? The fuck you do..."

[/lecture]

^^^^^^ LOL! I love that DVD analogy....and it is soooooo true! Thanks again Jack.....I can very much relate/endorse your parenting style. I'm gonna have to file this little anecdote away for when my son hits the teen years.

Well my parting shot as he went out the door was "Oh btw, bear in mind that most of the girls at your party were conceived at parties I went to..."

That seemed to upset him somewhat.

I kind of went through the same thing. Except, I suddenly didn't change my views on the pro-choice v. pro-life debate. My girlfriend got pregnant and we were iffy at first about it. We saw the doctor and were told that it would be a healthy pregnancy, most likely but not absolute. So we thought it through and we have the means to raise a child, so we accepted it. After a month and half, we were actually really excited about it.

Her whatever hormones were up, senses were starting to kick in, then one day while I'm at work she calls me crying. She says "I think something is wrong." I left work and rushed back home. She was sitting on the toilet crying. She kind of "shitted" out, I don't know a better way to say expelling a massive amount of blood from the birth canal, a crap load of blood. Her sister, who has had many pregnancies, said sometimes just "shitting" out blood is natural.

We went back to the doctor and had the sonigram (sp?) done. The doctor was finding something there, so believed it to be the potential fetus. So we thought everything was okay and place my girlfriend on a strict diet as per the doctor's request. A month later, my girlfriend is still getting bigger and we are still anticipating a child of our own, she starts having cramps again. We go back to the doctor and then he tells us there is a problem.

The thing he found before has not grown at all. He showed us this rotating chart that predicts the size determined by time of the last time she had her period and around the time inception probably took place. So he found a cyst growing in my girlfriend's womb. Like the potential fetus died or something and was still stuck to her uteran wall. She had to take one of those pills that forces whatever is in her uterus out. I guess that is what early stage abortions are.

First, I was completely depressed because I was looking forward to having a son like me or a daughter like her. Then, I became almost suicidally depressed when I had to hold her hand all night long and stay by her side as she was in pain from taking those pills. Like she was in complete pain and it was getting worse every half hour. There was nothing I could do about it except be there for her. She cried all night in pain... :(

That experience made me question why would people even go through abortions. Why would they go through all of that and not just place the child up for adoption. Personally, I would like to see abortions never done again. However, I still believe in the individual right of each person to have that choice. Not, necessarily, for the reasons we all think they are getting it for, but for the reason we don't think about. It sure is an emotional subject for those who have gone through it or something like it, but emotions are not what should dictate law. Especially when a law is applied across a whole community of diverse minds and opinions. It is never right for one person to take away the rights of another just based on that one person's feelings.

I would suggest we meet up but we'd only end up in bed and then we'd have no choice but to kill ourselves :P

You do know it's illegal to slip young women drugs to make them get into bed with you?



And what would happen if I was to get pregnant? I'd abort that thing quicker then you can say ABORTION! Devil child, it would be.

Down with children.