Alright, this has been an area of much research on my behalf lately (It belongs in S&A because it is about RELATIONSHIPS and building them.) Let's not let this die because it's an area of huge passion for me, and it's very important to the largely introverted members of &Totse. If this thread comes to fruition, it has A LOT of potential to change how people on this board carry themselves. So:

How do you be interesting?

First off, let me assuage the naysayers. Yes! You ABSOLUTELY have to learn to be interesting. Evolutionarily, socially, and just about any way you can think about it, we NEED to be qualified. We need to feel accepted. Some people are natural at being interesting, and you KNOW who those people are. You've already told them about your secret high school crush whose pictures lined your locker, and you've only met them 15 minutes ago! Interesting people nurture an environment of comfort which allows people to really connect with you and really like who you are. They get the job, make the friends (and the chicks), get out of trouble, etc etc. Yes, this is absolutely a skill that, if you don't have naturally, it would be widely beneficial to learn.

A quick caveat before I get to what I've come up with. This is the outcome of a few weeks of study. Much of it borrows from NLP (Neuro-linguistic programming), Mystery Method concepts, and my own review of people I deem interesting. This is about creating a sense of friendship in as little time as you can. It's in no way complete, and I fully intend it to be organic (Meaning: Please add concepts, realizations, conclusions, criticisms, etc.) I'm opening up what is MY project (to find out what makes interesting people have that special captivating demeaner), to you guys:

Alright...How to be an interesting person:

1.) Talking to other people -

(a) Talk slowly and deliberately (not creepy, just clearly) - This serves several purposes. Nervous people talk fast, and talking slowly depicts (even if its subconciously) a HUGE amount of confidence. You also don't stumble over your words as much or backtrack, which adds to the effect. People will literally hang onto every word you say when you talk slowly, and it creates a sense of anticipation. Next, it creates a sense of time distortion, where a rather short story will seem longer and more poignant. Seriously, talking slowly will give an immediately noticeable difference in how people treat you. (EDIT: Just a quick note...when I say slow, I really meant SLOWER than you probably talk right now. Sorry for the confusion!)

(b)Tell stories - Be sure to tell lots of stories about yourself. It creates an air of openness and comfort, and furthers the conversation. The stories HAVE to be relevant to the conversation, or else it will seem like you're boasting. All your stories must have a POINT, or a 'punch line' (though it doesn't necessarily have to be funny) that wraps it up. Also, avoid wordiness and keep it as clear as possible, or else people will get bored.

(c)Use Metaphors - I don't know why, but people LOVE metaphors. It's an NLP concept that states that metaphors connect with a person on an subconscious level, and allows them to tailor it personally to themselves. I use metaphors when explaining things, telling stories, arguing, etc. It conveys intelligence, too.

(d)Use Multiple Threads - This is a Mystery Method concept that works with anyone to create a sense of friendship. Friends never talk linearly. They are always starting up new conversations in the middle of old ones, going off on tangents, or whatever. People who just met talk in a linear fashion; Once one conversation dies out they start a new one. You can create a sense of friendship if you use multiple threading. Go off on a tangent when telling a story, then start another story, then finish the first one, then start a new one and finish the second one, etc. Leave conversations unfinished, so when one "thread" dies, you can continue with another. This is a great immediate change you can make to create a strong first-impression.

(e)Be insightful - Read people's body language (I'll talk about that more in #2), and feel free to make POSITIVE assumptions about them. People LOVE insightful people because they feel like they are being truly understood. If you tell them "You know how I can tell that you're a real laid back person? You're wearing sandals" they will be blown away by your insight. I told a girl yesterday that she was the type of girl who wore pajama pants in high school, because she seemed very chill. She was telling me her life story within 5 minutes of that statement (and within 15 minutes of meeting her.) Make sure that you're making POSITIVE assumptions, because otherwise you're just being a pretentious dick.

(f)Talk with your hands - I'll keep this one short, but people feel more involved in the conversation if talk with your hands. At the same time, don't overdo it...know when to scale back.

(g)BE PASSIONATE - Though this is the last one I have laid out, it IS the most important. If you are passionate and involved in what you are saying, you can disregard almost all the other advice. Passion is contagious, so speak passionately, and you will get WONDERFUL responses.

2.) Listening to other people -
(a)Listen closely - This is obvious, but I just want to touch up on it. Listen to details of their story, and bring the details up later to prove you were listening. Even if it's a boring topic, just listen and make it segue into a more interesting one.

(b)Mimic the person's level of thinking - This is an important NLP concept. People are predominantly visual, auditory, or kinesthetic thinkers. If they're visual, they'll say things like "This looks good!"; auditory - "Sounds good to me!"; kinesthetic - "This feels right!". While people do mix these 3 levels around, they predominantly go to one group. LISTEN to which level of thinking they use mostly. Then begin using that language back to them. Their subconscious mind will detect a level of congruence between you two, and they will automatically feel closer to you.

(c)Mimic the person's body language/posture - This is another NLP concept, where if you (subtly) mimic the person's body language, it will send more congruence cues to them. If you notice, friends have similar body language and mannerisms. If you recreate this, it creates a sense of friendship.

(d)Maintain eye contact when listening - This is a great tool to show you are interested that people overlook. Also, it allows you to read their body language, facial expressions, and eyes, which, at times, tell you more than what they're saying ever will.

(e)Be polite, but not overly polite - Being polite is common sense. However, we want to keep things interesting, and harbor a friendship. So, feel free to cut someone off, politely, with something relevant. Saying, "Let me stop you there for one second but..." is a great way to do this, and create multiple threads. Also, throwing a few 'teases', or in the Mystery Method it's called a 'neg', in the conversation is a great way to bring people closer to you. You have to gauge this one carefully, and calibrate it properly, but throwing in a "Yeah...we gotta work on that whole English thing..." and smirking when they fuck up what they're going to say is a great way to simulate a teasing friendship.


Again, this list isn't complete, nor do I really intend for it to ever be 'complete.' I'm sure there are thousands of hints to add, and that's why I created this thread. Personally, I love when people tell me that I'm an interesting person, and so I began to research what makes someone INTERESTING. Some of my advice is obvious, but most of it I feel is things that people don't think about. If you follow these guidelines, I guarantee you will see a difference in how people view and treat you. A lot of it is grounded in science and the research of others.

This is a very...well...interesting topic for me, and I am already reaping the benefits. Since I've tried this, I've had a few professional and social opportunities open up to me that I would not get unless people were enthralled in what I was saying. So let me know what you guys think,

Mike

ironically your thread was too boring to read.

I don't worry about being interesting because that's beyond lame. Girls I meet are usually interested in me just because of how I carry myself and waht they may have heard about me.

Very nice!

Nice thread, and generally good advice, although I don't personally follow very much of it. There are a few points I don't agree with.

First off, let me assuage the naysayers. Yes! You ABSOLUTELY have to learn to be interesting. Evolutionarily, socially, and just about any way you can think about it, we NEED to be qualified. We need to feel accepted.

We don't, and this is speaking from personal experience. I'm going by 'popular' definition of the word interesting (I feel everyone is interesting). I don't fit the bill of interesting, but I get along just fine, my hobbies include maths, computers and cricket, enough to cure insomnia, but I get along fine. It may help in areas, but it certainly isn't necessary.

(a) Talk slowly and deliberately

Whilst talking fast probably does indicate nervousness and may be hard to hear, talking slow can indicate being mentally slow, as well as lazy.

You can't dismiss something as tactless because you refuse to analyze it for any tact. Being an interesting person is something A LOT of people wonder about. What separates you from the crowd? Why do some people stick out in your head than others? Why would I hire YOU instead of someone else? Why would I accept you to my school over someone else? The practical applications are endless, and therefore it is an important SKILL to have.

Some people are naturally interesting people. This thread is a) For everyone else and b) For naturally interesting people to realize WHY that is and manipulate aspects of it freely.

Mike

Great post man, ignore that kiddie 'getoffmylawn' above he's a bit of a drop kick, certainly not on our level at any rate. Just don't respond to him, cause then all he's gonna do is run his mouth with some fukin' lame ass 5th grade insults and some bullshit about how he's the mack, far too pretentious.

Anyway, have you read through the whole of The Venusian Arts Handbook? I friggin love the Mystery Method, it's almost like a science.

I had a great time just recounting parties and shit where I had acted a certain way, and got a certain result, and yeah just reflecting back on those times and what I did right - in line with the Mystery Method, and what I did wrong, it's pretty clear to see that the advice you're giving is bang on the money.

I don't know about always talking slow however, I think it's important to variate your speech. If you go to one of those joints where they teach you how to speak well like Toastmasters or some shit, I think they'll tell you the same thing:

The pitch, tone and pace of your voice should fit the message you are trying to convey. It's no use talking slowly when you're recounting and exciting story, full of action.

Another point on speaking is, don't take forever with three fucking pages of background information to a story, you gotta be on point. How many times have i been sitting there listening to someone tell a story that could have otherwise been pretty exciting, except they took forever with meaningless background shit that I didn't need to hear.

Great post man, ignore that kiddie 'getoffmylawn' above he's a bit of a drop kick, certainly not on our level at any rate. Just don't respond to him, cause then all he's gonna do is run his mouth with some fukin' lame ass 5th grade insults and some bullshit about how he's the mack, far too pretentious.




uhhh, hate ta tell ya kid but you're definately younger than me and look like this http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/TheFux0rnater/memag1.jpg

when you lie do your ears grow like Pinocchio?


And OP what I'm saying is contrived "trying to be interesting" is pathetic and fake. If you need to do it though, knock yerselves out.

He's 100% right folks, follow it if you want to be a sucessfull communicator.

*Rykobear seal of approval*

Yeah, I've read all of the Venusian Arts handbook. There's alot I agree with and some things I don't. At the very best, though, Mystery definitely touches on aspects of being interesting..I just want to stray away from 'How to pick up chicks' to 'How to stick out in ANYONE's mind.'

As far as talking slow...Okay okay, I don't mean like retard slow :D. I mean slower than you probably talk. Maybe it's not the best advice, and you're probably right about it having to do with what you're saying, but I think people sound MUCH more poignant when they speak slow and clearly.

And getoffmylawn...If you want to learn math, you learn the RULES of math. Some people are great at math inherently, but some need help. Got the metaphor? Interesting people take up a SMALL minority of the population inherently in its definition. If they blended in with everyone else, they wouldn't, by definition, be interesting. That, along with the fact that MOST people don't think about this sort of thing (Like you, they think either you have it or you don't) made me research this. Standing out from the crowd is a SKILL, not a trait. It's about reading people, understanding people, and being able to tell people what they need to hear...some people can do it, but most can't.

As for everyone else...great responses! I'm glad people are putting up with the length and reading it...I worked hard on it, and it's a continuing topic for me.

Mike

+10

Using these techniques correctly and accordingly= GOLD

I agree with pretty much everything on that list, solid, obvious stuff but things so simple a lot of people skip them or ignore them.

One note, I'm usually a very quick, pretty quiet talker. If I'm on 3 hours of sleep, or otherwise tired/etc. I speak a lot slower, and by coincidence louder, and it gets and holds anyone's attention a lot better, everything I say gets taken more seriously, and I get more respect/etc. from anyone around me. Major, major difference in the confidence you display from it. Too bad I don't notice it a lot of the time. :\

So, what NLP newsletter did you copy that from, and why did you even bother changing key words to make it seem like you wrote it, you obivously didnt.

Naw man I totally did. Thanks for the complement, though. I said above that some concepts I got from my recent research on it. My university has internet access to a bunch of peer-reviewed journals and shit, so I was just searching about NLP through the psychology journals there. I wrote whenever it was an NLP concept, such as reading body language and what they say. NLP is backed by a lot of research, apparently...who knew?

Also some of my concepts came from the Mystery Method. He delves into how to respond to social situations (mostly regarding picking up chicks.) Some of his ideas are easily translate-able for other types of social situations, like talking to an employee.

Also, a lot of it I got from seeing what people I think are interesting do. There are definitely certain consistent aspects of the way interesting people carry themselves. Not that I was creepily following them taking down notes or anything. That'd be creepy and unnecessary. Obviously I snuck in when they were sleeping and took photos :D.

I would say it was a healthy mix of those 3 sources.

Mike

Nice post.

What are some good ways to get better at thinking of stories to tell? I mean there are a lot of stories I could tell, but I never think of a captivating one for the situation.

Because it's so hard to paraphrase ideas.

You know what is one of the most annoying things ever? People that talk slowly, I can't stand it. It also makes you seem uninterested and dull.

Who the hell even wants to be interesting anyways? Creates unnecessary attention, I do say.

Excellent analysis dude...If we had archives, this would be in there without a doubt.

Good job mate. :D

Sticky this!

Great question, and one I don't really have an answer to. The best you can do is work backwards. Think of all the major things that have affected who you are, funny personality-conveying stories, interesting things that you have read, etc. Rewrite those 'learned-lessons' into a punchline and work backwards from there.

Believe me, I've found that more often than not, it's not what you say in a story. Rather, it's how you say it that gets peoples attention. Let's be honest, most of us have boring lives, so the only thing left to do is focus less on the content and just to become a great story-teller.

Mike

This entire thread is rubbish, and is barely worth the paper it could be printed out on. Actually, what you have described is a pretty milquetoast THEORY....and as many things in life work out, the practical application is sketchy at best. All you have really done is rattle off a list of techniques that work for YOU....and then given some examples of the effectiveness in CERTAIN interpretations. In a followup post I could discuss how I even question the legitimacy that it IS working for you. Let me point out some of your faulty logic......

"Evolutionarily, socially, and just about any way you can think about it, we NEED to be qualified. We need to feel accepted."

Much of what you decribe after this is ways to "fit in" or as you said above...."accepted". Sorry, but people that are making a CONSCIOUS effort to fit in, are NOT being themselves.....instead just mimicking the behaviors of the people they want to fit in with. That is NOT interesting in the least, and instead is just being a parrot or a sheep.

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"Nervous people talk fast"

SOME people that talk fast are nervous. While many others are not. IRL I'm a fast and somewhat loud talker. That is more indicative to where I grew up in the environment I was raised. I spent 25 years on the East coast of the USA, and people in the Philly, New York, Boston area tend to be faster/louder talkers than someone from say Iowa. So your observation means NOTHING, other than a POSSIBILITY of why they talk fast.

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"Be sure to tell lots of stories about yourself. It creates an air of openness and comfort, and furthers the conversation."

This is putting the cart before the horse. Yes, tell lots of stories AFTER you have developed that friendship. But in the "getting to know you" phase of meeting someone telling all these stories can be interpretted as you just being a self-serving pretentious asshole. See below where you discuss "listening" (which I completely agree with). Your listening and telling stories is contradictory. Again, once you've already befriended someone then yeah....story away. But at that point you've ALREADY developed that friendship/bond.....and the purpose to seem "interesting" is already gone. That boat shoulda sailed long ago.

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"You can create a sense of friendship if you use multiple threading."

Or someone can perceive you as scatter brained, lacking focus, and somewhat aloof. I understand the concept that you are trying to portray here, but you are avoiding the reason at WHY so many conversations digress to other ones. More often than not, its because one person or the other is not LISTENING and instead interrupting with their comments before fully receiving the message. And that is contrary to one of your other directives. Sounds to me your communications technique is this way because of your inability to embrace the "awkward pause" aspect when 2 people are conversing. Rewatch Pulp Fiction-the restaurant scene for more clarity. I agree with Uma....when 2 people are NOT having to move their yaps every second, then a better familiarity has been established. And in all actuallity, I would make the mental note of someone dancing over so many topics jumping back and forth would be the NERVOUS communicator....similar to what you decribed about talking fast.

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"If you are passionate and involved in what you are saying, you can disregard almost all the other advice. Passion is contagious, so speak passionately, and you will get WONDERFUL responses."

That is absolutely ERRONEOUS. You could be grouped together with some folks in a lab project. During some offtime you may be "passionately" discussing anime with much zest, but if your audience is the cheerleader/football clique....nothing that you are prattling on about is going to be "contagious". Nope, instead they'll be glancing at their watch every 2 minutes wondering when they can get away from this weirdo.

-------

"where if you (subtly) mimic the person's body language, it will send more congruence cues to them. If you notice, friends have similar body language and mannerisms. If you recreate this, it creates a sense of friendship"

Or a conscious obervance can be made by the person being mimicked and they'll end up thinking...."Why the HELL is this person imitating my mannerisms? What kind of malcontent is in front of me?"

---------

"So, feel free to cut someone off, politely, with something relevant. Saying, "Let me stop you there for one second but..." is a great way to do this, and create multiple threads."

Actually, all this does is delay the conversation and more than likely deflects the topic to something else which creates a haphazard communication at best......like I described above. And again it is CONTRARY to your listening directive. And do I have to mention that what seems to be a "relevant" interruption by the interrupter, may not necessarily seem relevant to the one being interrupted?

-------

My advice to seem "interesting"? Just be yourself, and don't try to fit in. Fuck some textbook rote ideas......just learn to observe and find some range of commonality with the person you are talking with. Of course follow the Golden Rule and treat people with respect.....but don't be SO polite as to appear desperate to be liked. You'll come off as some stray puppy needing a home, and that is NEVER an endearing quality....at least with rational people. I would take my "tactics" in the 37 years I've been encountering/observing people and pit it against your WEEKS worth of study and cardboard cut out "answers" in a heartbeat. Oh, and a nice big sack of weed never hurts either.

Oh, and a nice big sack of weed never hurts either.

This man speaks the truth!

That post was tldr, Mike. How is your sister doing?

Very good writeup. I agree with a lot of the points.
I think it's important to note that all of these processes need to be controlled somewhat subconsciously. What you've done is basically analyzed the subconscious portion of social behavior associated with more social, extroverted people. Introverts, first of all, are not generally willing to change their intrinsic personality. Of the few who are, however, they may begin to implement some of the actions described in your write-up, but it will come off as unnatural and strange to people who possess such traits naturally. Over time, though, the idea would be for the subconscious to eventually control the execution of social interaction so as to seem more natural, fluid, and accepted by others.

All in all, I think you've clearly outlined a lot of the fundamental procedures carried out by people in general while building lasting friendships. It may be viewed by 'the outsiders' as following a crowd, being a sheep, etc., but the cold hard fact is that human nature in itself essentially dictates our behavior to be interdependent on one another for survival, and there's really no way around that if you wish to be a functioning member of any human society whether you're conscious of it or not.

I'm with you man.

Yeah, you can do all these things to be interesting (or more interesting), but if you're an interesting person and you're honest with yourself, then it doesn't take any work. Even if you think you aren't, most people really are... to sompeople anyways

Great post, the only think I'm not in total a agreement with is the slow talking point.

Whenever I travel south and meet girls, they all seem to love the fact that I talk with an accent. Automatically everyone assumes that I am from Boston or NYC and for some reason it seems to be a turn on for them.

All you have really done is rattle off a list of techniques that work for YOU....and then given some examples of the effectiveness in CERTAIN interpretations.
First of, let me thank you for actually reading it and writing a well thought-out response. As far as this goes, NLP concepts are well-documented with overwhelming evidence for them. In fact, I only got my information from peer-reviewed articles and most of it was straight from Bandler and Grinder (The scientists who created the concept.) The rest of it is either from a social-model called the Mystery Method, which is derived from scientific backing, or my personal observations. There are DEFINITELY things that people can do to make themselves seem more engaging.


Sorry, but people that are making a CONSCIOUS effort to fit in, are NOT being themselves.....instead just mimicking the behaviors of the people they want to fit in with. That is NOT interesting in the least, and instead is just being a parrot or a sheep.


That's just being cynical. What I'm posing is a SELF-HELP method for people to change their behavior in order to present WHO THEY ARE more clearly. I'm not telling them what stories to tell, or what clothes to wear. Mimicing speech and body language is done by friends all the time unconsciously, and emulating that will allow people to open up to you more. And if people are open and comfortable with you, well...that's how friendships are made.


SOME people that talk fast are nervous. While many others are not.

When you give a speech, you want to speak slow, comfortably, and clearly. While some people normally talk fast, they more often trip over their words and backtrack. Your brains corrective feedback switch is working in overdrive. Slowing it down yields clearer speech and it really grabs people's attention. You want to be as articulate when you talk to people you don't know, or (in THEIR mind) it'll pass off and nervousness. It's no different than changing your prosody when you're giving a speech, or at an interview, or anything like that.


This is putting the cart before the horse. Yes, tell lots of stories AFTER you have developed that friendship. But in the "getting to know you" phase of meeting someone telling all these stories can be interpretted as you just being a self-serving pretentious asshole.

I see stories as personality-conveying vessels. Saying "Yeah I have a million dollars" to a stranger is being a pretentious dick, but telling the story of how you won the lottery is being INTERESTING. It shows your personality and is the best way you can connect with someone you don't know.


Or someone can perceive you as scatter brained, lacking focus, and somewhat aloof.

I personally LOVE people with a lot on their mind. People who are always thinking always have interesting things to say. I don't mean throw out 20 conversations at once. Keeping 3 or 4 going at once recreates how friends talk. It FUELS conversation. YES, I'm totally trying to avoid the awkward pause! Why? Because that's when people go "...OK I got to get going now" and the bond is broken. You want to keep people enthralled and talking. I want people to say to me "I have to go, but we have SO much to talk about!"


That is absolutely ERRONEOUS. You could be grouped together with some folks in a lab project. During some offtime you may be "passionately" discussing anime with much zest, but if your audience is the cheerleader/football clique....nothing that you are prattling on about is going to be "contagious". Nope, instead they'll be glancing at their watch every 2 minutes wondering when they can get away from this weirdo.

OK man, we're not in high school anymore. Well, at least I'm not. People learn to dissociate themselves from their clique at like 18. And lets take that situation anyway...so lab geeks are passionately discussing anime. Well, at worst it's no better than if the cheerleaders heard them discussing it lackluster-ly. At best, she'll think "Well there must be SOMETHING about it that makes people so passionate...I wonder what it is?"


Or a conscious obervance can be made by the person being mimicked and they'll end up thinking...."Why the HELL is this person imitating my mannerisms? What kind of malcontent is in front of me?"

Hahaha. Good point, but I think you'll be surprised at how often this technique is used. Nearly every teacher is taught to mimic students body language when they want to get something from them. When a cop questions a suspect, he will try to 'get down to their level', which includes mimicing body language, in order to get the most information out of them. Therapists, managers, car salesmen ALL use it. I can site tons of articles directing you to this concept pertaining to each one of these if you'd like. People have done it to you, and you haven't noticed so why should anyone else?


Actually, all this does is delay the conversation and more than likely deflects the topic to something else which creates a haphazard communication at best......like I described above. And again it is CONTRARY to your listening directive. And do I have to mention that what seems to be a "relevant" interruption by the interrupter, may not necessarily seem relevant to the one being interrupted?

You know as well as I do that for some reason, people are drawn to a push-pull environment. That's why assholes get the chicks, and friends tease each other relentlessly. If used properly, then it simulates that and no one will be offended. Your last point is very true, and IS a definite flaw, but it's a matter of calibration. Once you learn how to do it properly, you won't offend anyone.


My advice to seem "interesting"? Just be yourself, and don't try to fit in.

Good advice, and it works for people who are naturally engaging. For MOST people, though, 'be yourself' is the only social advice they have ever been given. So why didn't they get the job they want? Why didn't they get the chick they want? Why did the college reject them? They were just being themselves! My advice DOES teach people to be themselves, but effectively COMMUNICATE with other people to stick out more and get people more emotionally attached to you (yes...guys who are friends have emotional attachments to each other too, believe it or not guys.)

You do make some valid points, but I'm not telling people what to say. I'm telling them how to say it in a clear, consistent manner which will develop bonds better. This argument could go back and forth, and we're both pretty involved in it so I feel like it will just clutter up the thread. If you want to IM me my screen name is (AIM): MikeTheWalrus. I'd love for us to discuss it more, man.

Mike

That's like me...Girls in rural/village places hear my cockney accent (East London) and out of nowhere, panties hit the ground!

I love it!

Gotta get out of London again soon.

i use no a, and very little b, i talk waywayway too fast and get so into things. my c can be too obscure and nonsensical, and my d, my gooddd they can be ridiculous and impossible to follow. not a hugelot of e because i hate to be too presumptious.
so much f and g that most people i meet think i'm too eccentric and ecletic for words, or just plain crazy :/

i do most of two, except b really, and i like d maybe a little too much.

That's like me...Girls in rural/village places hear my cockney accent (East London) and out of nowhere, panties hit the ground!



Panties arn't the only things dropping because of cockney accents. There's a real niche in the Top 40 pop charts for that shit right now, ever considered selling your soul to a record industry? You don't even have to be talented (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_Jack) haha.

This would make a great discussion for headshrinkers.

Mike, we'll have to keep it in here.....because I don't ever use IM (mostly because of the viruses) and I don't consider this as "cluttering the thread". Actually, its the very essence of Totse and S & A.....throwing ideas back and forth and in this section about human relationships. Understand I'm in no way trying to flame you, or sound insulting in any way. If I'm talking about your techniques and making a reference to "you"......its not you personally, just the technique itself and how certain people using that technique may come off to other people. And don't think I'm trying to "win" an arguement here....instead just bouncing these ideas back and forth and letting the readers draw their own conclusions to what sounds best to them.

The biggest "fault" behind most of what you are describing is how you are trying to take something as complex as human behavior.....and simplify it to such easy black/white parameters. Observing humans is pseudo science at best...you are throwing mud at a wall and hoping SOMETHING sticks. Sometimes your aim is good, others its not. I'll take something you said above as an example to make my point.

One thing you said above about " being postive". Now people (as well as many self-help books) believe part of that positiveness is being complimentary. You may say to a dude you just met....."Cool Ambercrombie shirt ya go there, where's the nearest store....cuz I just moved here a month ago?" Now in certain instances, the receiver may interpret that remark as ....."Hey this guy's got some good fashion sense, he seems pretty cool". Whereas some other's may think after your quip..."Whoa, who is this fag to be caring so much about another guy's shirt?". In that scenario, what's one's man's trash is another's treasure. Now you could counter to me and say those wearing an Ambercrombie shirt would be more susceptible to being fashion conscious.....so the odds are more in your "favor" as that being a safe positive compliment. But who is to say that is even his shirt? See, while you were sizing him up as the college student metrosexual with his shirt and backpack....the truth is he just walked out of an apartment after a 72 hour cocaine binge grabbing the nearest shirt laying on the back of the couch before exiting out the door, and he has 3 ounces in that backpack. That's the problems when observing/sizing up other humans, we usually bring our own bias and life experiences into the equation.



I personally LOVE people with a lot on their mind. People who are always thinking always have interesting things to say. I don't mean throw out 20 conversations at once. Keeping 3 or 4 going at once recreates how friends talk. It FUELS conversation. YES, I'm totally trying to avoid the awkward pause! Why? Because that's when people go "...OK I got to get going now" and the bond is broken. You want to keep people enthralled and talking. I want people to say to me "I have to go, but we have SO much to talk about!"




See, here is where you are bring your OWN bias into the equation. People can have a lot on their mind, yet not be talking so freely about it. If you try to be a "yapper" to a more withdrawn/quiet person.....you may never make that connection. I've met quite a few Vietnam vets that are quite introverted, but very "interesting" people and good friends. But they are more subdued in their conversational tactics, and it isn't like a tennis match with dialogue going back and forth at the rate you are suggesting. If you do never make that connection you may walk away thinking they are too "dull" or laid back for your preference....whereas they think you are scattered brained and hyper. Neither one of you are "wrong" or "bad" people for not making that connection.....but your multiple topics technique could have been the reason.



When you give a speech, you want to speak slow, comfortably, and clearly. While some people normally talk fast, they more often trip over their words and backtrack. Your brains corrective feedback switch is working in overdrive. Slowing it down yields clearer speech and it really grabs people's attention. You want to be as articulate when you talk to people you don't know, or (in THEIR mind) it'll pass off and nervousness. It's no different than changing your prosody when you're giving a speech, or at an interview, or anything like that.



Here's where I'll make one of my last points about speed of speech. A conversation is NOT a speech or lecture....and IS more like a tennis match. It truly is a 2-way street. You comment, pause, they retort. Enunciating perfectly doesn't always make you seem like the most effective or even friendliest communicator in a 2 way conversation.....and even might come out snobbish, especially in a "slowed down" sense.


Hahaha. Good point, but I think you'll be surprised at how often this technique is used. Nearly every teacher is taught to mimic students body language when they want to get something from them. When a cop questions a suspect, he will try to 'get down to their level', which includes mimicing body language, in order to get the most information out of them. Therapists, managers, car salesmen ALL use it. I can site tons of articles directing you to this concept pertaining to each one of these if you'd like. People have done it to you, and you haven't noticed so why should anyone else?


In my mind you are confusing two into one here. Mimicking body language and level of thinking. I don't put too much stock into body language myself, as you can make all the psychological observations you like about a person talking with his arms closed in front of him.....but the simple truth might be one of his arms might be sore from playing raquetball in the morning. And as I said earlier, spending that much time observing AND mimicking body language could come off creepy.

But as far as "level of thinking", I rather refer to it as "gauging your audience". I may ramble on somewhat here, and not to sound boastful... but I consdier myself pretty much a master at it. The reason being is because my livelihood depends on that very technique, since I manage a self-storage business. The truth about storage is once you get past location and price, they all are just a bunch of garages securing items. So when I meet that person face to face or on the phone, I'm trying to develop a rapport......a comfort level with ME. In essence I'm selling myself as the manager, all the while just rattling off rote policy and price. I encounter people from all walks of life....from the teen moving back with mom and dad after dropping out of college, to the old lady moving into assisted living after her husband just passed away. Or the guy expanding his business, to the chick divorcing her husband who is now in jail for beating her bloody a couple of days ago.

All different walks of life, all different scenarios.....I'm gauging my audience and finding that comfort level. There is no set spheel, it is a tennis match to find that comfortable content of conversation and emotions backing it. To that 20 something guy, I may ask if he has tickets to the Van Halen show tomorrow. To the biker landscaper guy I may discuss how I just got a speeding ticket from those lousy cops yesterday. To that 80 year old lady, I might point out my wife's petunias out front. I'm trying to find that basis of commonality with whatever folks, and let the conversation guide itself. I have no set agenda......because no matter how many observations I've made of other SIMILAR people, THAT person standing in front of me has their own set of morality, needs, and fears.

One piece of advice that I'll dish out in regard to "gauging your audience" is a simple question I've found that is a great ice breaker when making casual aquaintance, whether its a classmate, neighbor, or fellow in the next bar stool. Rather than your normal "how ya doin".....use different verbiage. Try......."So how has life been treating ya?" It's more open ended, its more inviting, and it gives more of an impression of actual care/curiousity to the happenings in that person's life. Then let the conversation flow from there. You might get a response of ......"Great, I got the next 4 days off and going away this weekend". Or maybe a "Kinda tough, my uncle just died 2 weeks ago". Another reason I like that question is because you are getting a better indication of how they are feeling RIGHT NOW. Whereas that casual aquaintance you usually see very upbeat and happy, may not be in the best of spirits right now and you can feed off of those emotional clues as to how to guide the conversation. Or vice versa.

What I truly believe is at the root of all human relationships is the "vibe" or "energy" given off by whatever parties. Sometimes you just meet people and you click immediately. Other times not so nice. Its not just rote physical behaviors, or the context of those conversations.....but its the meshing of the energy levels, in addition to developing that "comfort level". I would strongly suggest renting the movie "The Celestine Prophecy" to better understand what I'm trying to get at. The story itself might be interpretted as being somewhat over the top.......but the concept behind it is quite thought provoking. And all my "gauging the audience" tactic does is make for a quicker and smoother exchanging of those vibes/energies......if my observance of their CURRENT behaviors and moods is accurate. Trying my best to leave out my personal bias of what I would EXPECT that person to be needing/desiring based on past observations of either themselves or similar people in their situation.

according to your advice im sort of an interesting person(with a few variations), i tell many stories about myself. i also try to match my tone with another person, this seems to help them relate more.

i tend to over use hand gestures, this can make me seem a lil weird.

i will try to take some of your advice into consideration, talking slowly makes sense, but i tend to have a lot to say in a short amount of time.

I'm just going to throw this right out of nowhere, but I believe it has a lot to do with pheromones.

The biggest "fault" behind most of what you are describing is how you are trying to take something as complex as human behavior.....and simplify it to such easy black/white parameters.

I'm just gonna address this because it seems to be the bulk of the discussion. It's a perfectly fair statement to make...just realize that by making it you are disqualifying ALL social theories. There are tons of social models; of communication, of behavior, etc etc. All of these are based on the fact that, while human behavior IS complex (and it most certainly is! No one argues that), there are CERTAINLY patterns that emerge.
I'm not offering a blueprint to life...just little tweaks to convey yourself more effectively (albeit maybe not to EVERYONE...just most people.)

Mike

I'm just gonna address this because it seems to be the bulk of the discussion. It's a perfectly fair statement to make...just realize that by making it you are disqualifying ALL social theories. There are tons of social models; of communication, of behavior, etc etc. All of these are based on the fact that, while human behavior IS complex (and it most certainly is! No one argues that), there are CERTAINLY patterns that emerge.
I'm not offering a blueprint to life...just little tweaks to convey yourself more effectively (albeit maybe not to EVERYONE...just most people.)

Mike

My last post certainly pertained to more than just THAT, and considering you've just minimized everything I said in that post to such a simplistic part of it makes me believe you really don't want to discuss these issues. But you are accurate in one assessment above where you state that I'm "disqualifying ALL social theories". You got it, and that is pretty much my entire point throughout this thread. Everything you are discussing on this thread is JUST a theory, and as I've pointed out and you admitted because of the complexity of human behavior its not an exact science.

And that is the part I just don't get. You have made a "check list" of sorts for people trying to interact with others, when no 2 social situations are identical.....and some points of your checklist apply in some cases, and others don't in different cases. Most of your directives have been targeted for the "introverted" audience, and from where I'm sitting you are doing nothing more than reinforcing patterns/behaviors in their socializing skills that they were already living out by having this checklist. Because you are putting so much emphasis in "thinking through" some of your tactics, you are focusing their attentions on the "intellectual" aspect of socializing whereas I believe they should learn better how to "feel" the conversation.

The point is, many introverted people are shy or socially awkward because they are putting TOO MUCH thought into their conversations and very self-conscious of themselves and how they are being received. To me you instilling your agenda or check list in regard to conversing with people is just reinforcing all the "thinking" going on....and making that introvert even more aware/conscious of themselves and what they are bringing to the conversation. If an introvert logged off of here and took all of your points/theories to heart.....they would now be conversing with folks while analyzing their tactics in the middle of that conversation. They would meet that new person in the coffee shop trying to make time with them......and instead of focusing their attention to observing the person they are talking to and "feeling" that social interaction....they would be going back over your checklist trying to remember to hit all the key points. They might be thinking...."am I mimicking his behavior, am I positive enough, am I telling enough stories, should I be more insightful". In essence what you are doing is recommending to people that are already TOO self-conscious while socializing, to be even MORE self-conscious of themselves....which from where I'm sitting is the core root of their problem to begin with. Again, they should be honing their observational skills, not spending even MORE time on self-analysis and judgement.

And finally, I'd like to question a statement you've made here about your "success" at how these techniques have actually "worked" for you. We are going right back to "perception" again, but most importantly you can't truly determine them as a success because they haven't passed the most important test of all.....that being the TEST OF TIME. See, while you may have walked away from certain interactions THINKING it went well and are filled with confidence at your new found techniques....I maintain that after only a couple of weeks you can't properly assess the fruits of your labors. You made reference before to how your professional opportunities have increased since you started these techniques. The truth is, while impulsively you may believe the responses to your techniques were "positive" you can't truly know if its a blessing or curse until time has passed and you can truly assess the situation. An example of that would be if someone offered you a job after interacting with you using these new techniques. Granted, getting a job offer DOES seem appear "positive" at face value. But who is to say the job being offered isn't the most thankless and aggravating job ever? Perhaps the person offering you that job has much turnover in that position, has encountered you to be somewhat weird and socially awkward because of your communication techniques.....and the only reason they gave you that job offer is because they are thinking...."well this guy seems to be somewhat of a sucker, I bet he'd make a great administrative assitant to that pain in the ass VP that I haven't been able to keep filled for a couple years now." On the surface that job offer you "won" with your socializing techniques may seem like a victory....whereas once working that job for a month or two you discover its a living nightmare.

The same goes for trying to build relationships, whether just friendly or romantic. Sure someone might have said to you....."hey you seem cool, I'm throwing a party in a couple of weeks.... here's my number, call me for directions". In that scenario you would walk away thinking....."YESSSSS, it worked!" but again you don't know the true intents of that person or sincerity behind the invitation. Maybe they were just giving you the brushoff to end the convo and gave you a bogus number. Week of the party and they may avoid your calls. Or lie to you and tell you its cancelled, after further review of thinking back at their interaction with you and realize you may not be suitable at that party. There are a whole host of reasons why you think your techniques are "working", where instead its just making you walk away with the false belief that it is. Now if you come on here 6 months from now stating you have found your soul mate and are quite happy, all thanks to the techniques you have mentioned because had you not used them you would have never had the confidence abilities to converse with her in the process........then I would say you have a true to life "success story". But just a couple of WEEKS into your research and practical application? Sorry, but you truly don't know the effectiveness of your tactics and can't properly analyze if it has "worked" until more time has passed.

My last post certainly pertained to more than just THAT, and considering you've just minimized everything I said in that post to such a simplistic part of it makes me believe you really don't want to discuss these issues. But you are accurate in one assessment above where you state that I'm "disqualifying ALL social theories". You got it, and that is pretty much my entire point throughout this thread. Everything you are discussing on this thread is JUST a theory, and as I've pointed out and you admitted because of the complexity of human behavior its not an exact science.

Well actually I just addressed that part because it IS the bulk of your argument. You repeatedly say no 2 situations are the same and humans are complex, so there is no point to generalize. I just addressed that instead of dissecting every sentence, because I want to keep this to-the-point.
As far as theories go. Sure...totally is a theory. You're right. However, by doing that you're brushing off both psychology, and sociology. They both deal with being able to predict behavior.
You're stance is that human interaction is so varied and complex that there isn't even ANY point to try to decipher it. And yet, you take a Communications class, and that's ALL that it's about. You take a Cognitive Psych course, and it's exclusively about behavior patterns in humans. Behaviorism is founded on the fact that animals (yes, even humans!) are predictable. You take a Sociology course and it tries to predict human behavior.
Now I'm not trying to claim my advice is anywhere near as established as those subjects, but that's all it is -- advice! You can't predict what situations people end up in, nor am I even pretending to try. I'm merely telling people advice to step up their game. Looking people in the eyes IS going to make you seem like you're more into the conversation than looking down at the ground. Obviously, if you find yourself in front of someone who abhors eye contact, then the advice won't work. But again...these are general rules to abide by to present yourself in a more organized, complete way.
It's no more presumptuous than you telling people (and you did) to "Just be yourself." Humans are complex beings and so are social interactions, so you can't POSSIBLY tell people to be themselves! For MANY people (and by many I mean most), being themselves isn't advice! They already know how to do that, and yet they can't seem to carry a conversation. I'm giving tangible advice that will make a marked difference in how people perceive you.


The point is, many introverted people are shy or socially awkward because they are putting TOO MUCH thought into their conversations and very self-conscious of themselves and how they are being received. To me you instilling your agenda or check list in regard to conversing with people is just reinforcing all the "thinking" going on....and making that introvert even more aware/conscious of themselves and what they are bringing to the conversation.

Well, again. I'm not posing strict laws to follow. I'm giving advice on how effective discourse should go to create a lasting impression. It's not a sequential order of things they have to follow. It's a little insignificant part lodged into a fissure in the back of your brain that says, "Hey, here's a great time to tell them about the time I..." Again, it's A WAY of conducting yourself. Obviously to change anything about you, you will have to think about it to some degree. But I am confident in people to be able to talk, listen, and think at the same time. Otherwise, they have much larger issues to deal with.

You're issue lies in the fact that I'm making a natural process synthetic and predictable. In actuality, though, I'm doing neither. I'm merely laying the framework for NATURAL communication to exist. I'm not telling people WHERE to steer the conversation, just how to present themselves so that they have an upper hand as opposed to 'winging' the conversation. It's not unnatural at all, it's actually the opposite. It's FACILITATING dialogue and creating a scenario where two people can forge a relationship, whereas normally, a conversation dwindles and burns before any connection can be made.


And finally, I'd like to question a statement you've made here about your "success" at how these techniques have actually "worked" for you. We are going right back to "perception" again, but most importantly you can't truly determine them as a success because they haven't passed the most important test of all.....that being the TEST OF TIME. See, while you may have walked away from certain interactions THINKING it went well and are filled with confidence at your new found techniques....I maintain that after only a couple of weeks you can't properly assess the fruits of your labors.

You're certainly being a skeptic, but not a healthy skeptic. You're just denying every facet of my argument by saying "Well, you can't PROVE that it works, so it must not!" And that's a legitimate argument, but it holds little ground. I'm not being held to prove anything. There's no test tubes filled with chemical X here. Hell, there isn't even a DeLorean.
However, I DO have research on my side. I'm not sewing these statements out of thin air. I'm compiling researched advice into several points. It's not 'new-found' techniques. People have been using much of these forever. Eye-contact is a time-tested concept. Congruence (People like people who are similar to them) is not only time-tested, but common sense. NLP is researched and widespread. I'm not fabricating these...they already exist...I'm just taking the hundreds of articles and research I've read on it the past month, and compiling it.


But who is to say the job being offered isn't the most thankless and aggravating job ever? Perhaps the person offering you that job has much turnover in that position, has encountered you to be somewhat weird and socially awkward because of your communication techniques.....and the only reason they gave you that job offer is because they are thinking...."well this guy seems to be somewhat of a sucker, I bet he'd make a great administrative assitant to that pain in the ass VP that I haven't been able to keep filled for a couple years now." On the surface that job offer you "won" with your socializing techniques may seem like a victory....whereas once working that job for a month or two you discover its a living nightmare.

You're just proposing a ridiculous assumption right there. I guess IF the boss is that cynical and IF the just is terrible and IF it really has nothing to do with me presenting myself confidently and IF the boss actually thinks that, etc...then Yes you are right! But the chance of that is slim. I have more faith in the world. More likely is that the guy just liked me, thought I had a great demeanor, and thought I'd make a good asset to the team.


The same goes for trying to build relationships, whether just friendly or romantic. Sure someone might have said to you....."hey you seem cool, I'm throwing a party in a couple of weeks.... here's my number, call me for directions". In that scenario you would walk away thinking....."YESSSSS, it worked!" but again you don't know the true intents of that person or sincerity behind the invitation. Maybe they were just giving you the brushoff to end the convo and gave you a bogus number. Week of the party and they may avoid your calls. Or lie to you and tell you its cancelled, after further review of thinking back at their interaction with you and realize you may not be suitable at that party.

Another crazy assumption. I'm sorry...but I believe that people are good-natured. If someone invites me to a party, I'd believe it's sincere.

You're making my advice out to be outlandish, unnatural, step-by-step procedures that I just woke up one day and wrote down. This couldn't be further from the truth. None of them are outlandish...they're all very basic in fact! It's not unnatural because it's advice designed to create GENUINE conversation, instead of "So...the weather's nice." And it's certainly not strict advise. I said in the original post that there is TONS of little nuggets of advice that I don't know yet, and I invited people to add to it.

So, if this is just emulating a natural conversation, then why should I even bother laying out the guidelines? Because most people either think they have it or they don't. Either people listen to you and you're interesting, or otherwise...tough shit. It's faulty logic. It's a SKILL that you have to acquire. Most people don't think it's something to be analyzed, but it most certainly is! Political campaigns dissect every word, every intonation, and every pause of what someone says to see how impressionable it is. Politicians are trained to speak as effectively as possible. They aren't just born with it. I'm not just laying out the guidelines for any conversation...I'm giving advice about INVOLVED conversation. And THAT, most people don't know.

Mike

I like your advice man it is good stuff. It is ironic that I read this post today because earlier at work I worked with a new kid who was following almost everybit of advice on that list and at the end of the work day I was thinking to myself "wow that kid is pretty cool, I actually talked to him all day about stuff that I won't just forget about". I think for him it was natural though.

I have been reading The Game by Neil Strauss in my spare time and have been trying to pick up some tips from that. I am genuinly sick of not having confidence and assuming people won't like me before I even work up the balls to talk to them.

I have been going to the gym and watching what I eat for almost a year now and I have made terrific gains I still jsut don't like my look. I hate to sound desperate and depressed but do you happen to have any tips on self confidence concerning your own looks?

I don't know how to describe it better than to say when I look in the mirror by myself I am amazed at what I see, I look great. But as soon as I leave the house or someone else is with me I feel like my old self again. All confidence is lost. It just seems so natural to everyone else and I can't find it in myself.

Thanks for the good post Mike.

I have been going to the gym and watching what I eat for almost a year now and I have made terrific gains I still jsut don't like my look. I hate to sound desperate and depressed but do you happen to have any tips on self confidence concerning your own looks?

I don't know how to describe it better than to say when I look in the mirror by myself I am amazed at what I see, I look great. But as soon as I leave the house or someone else is with me I feel like my old self again. All confidence is lost. It just seems so natural to everyone else and I can't find it in myself.

Thanks for the good post Mike.

This is a hard one to give advice about, but I got a few things.

You says that it seems so natural to everyone else. The first thing you must realize is that IT IS NOT. It's not your problem, its EVERYONE'S problem. We are our own worst critic, and the lack of self-confidence that other people have will astound you.

As far as how to deal with it...Well, the best advice I can give you is that looks matter extremely little in life. Less than most people think. You said you were reading the Game...well...have you ever seen Neil Strauss (the author)? He's the ugliest piece of shit I've ever seen, and yet none of that matters.

It sounds cliche, but it really is a matter of maturing and just not giving a shit (not about your looks, but about other people's opinions.) Many of us are still working on not giving a shit (including me), but it's the very core of the solution. People SEE when you're uncomfortable with yourself, and treat you differently. It's a matter of getting over that, so that they can see how confident you really are.

Some people say fake it till you make it, and I kind of agree with it. Think about it this way...if you fake self-confidence, you will see how people treat you differently and therefore grow more actual confidence. It's kind of an iffy method, but if it works for you then go for it.

I'm not a life coach or psychologist or anything (merely a college student with free time and a spark of curiosity), so take it for what its worth.

Mike

*Advice*
Mike

Thanks mate.

Noone has all the answers and I wasn't looking for all the answers just some tips and you delivered. Appreciate the effort and time.

Take care.

pathetic and fake.
people sure will like you lots though

Mike, first off I've never implied that these were YOUR ideas....and am fully aware most of what you posted is just stuff you compiled from various self-help books, and recently trying some of these techniques. I think the biggest difference you and I have at this point is you are pretty much just rattling off rote data from a book, and I'm sharing REAL LIFE practical applications. Its interesting you started this thread off wanting more ideas, and now are stuck in defense mode. Also keep in mind you admittedly aren't the most comfortable person in social interaction. Whereas I'm the kinda guy that can go to a wedding of someone my wife works with knowing literally NO ONE, and have an absolute blast and a pocket full of phone numbers after the night is over to boot. So remember that I'm trying to "help" people with social interactions just as much as you are. Again, I just believe that your checklist is making people MORE self-conscious and self-judgemental, when in my mind people need to not spend so much time on their "tactics" per se......instead hone their observational skills.

It's no more presumptuous than you telling people (and you did) to "Just be yourself." Humans are complex beings and so are social interactions, so you can't POSSIBLY tell people to be themselves! For MANY people (and by many I mean most), being themselves isn't advice! They already know how to do that, and yet they can't seem to carry a conversation. I'm giving tangible advice that will make a marked difference in how people perceive you.


Its not presumptous at all, and truthfully is the only legitimate advice someone should apply to their situations. YOUR advice is trying to tweak their behaviors and mannerisms somewhat. What they need is a dose of confidence and lose the inhibitions caring what people think. You are claiming, "when in Rome do as the Romans do". The problem with that is, they are playing a role....putting on a mask. And what happens if they DO establish and maintain a friendship? More than likely the "real them" will come out, and perhaps those people will start to distance themselves from them because they are no longer playing that role. At that point which is more hurtful? A basic stranger not giving you much attention because they aren't on the same wave as you.....or a friend you've shared memories and invested time with that has now cast you aside?


You're issue lies in the fact that I'm making a natural process synthetic and predictable. In actuality, though, I'm doing neither. I'm merely laying the framework for NATURAL communication to exist. I'm not telling people WHERE to steer the conversation, just how to present themselves so that they have an upper hand as opposed to 'winging' the conversation. It's not unnatural at all, it's actually the opposite. It's FACILITATING dialogue and creating a scenario where two people can forge a relationship, whereas normally, a conversation dwindles and burns before any connection can be made.


What you are describing IS contrived, and basing everything on "thinking" your tactics through. Again, I'm saying "feel" it through, and THEN when you are comfortable (or it just flows out of your NATURALLY) start sharing whatever stories. But to sit back and ponder WHILE in the middle of a conversation...."now would be an advantageous/proper time to tell them ______" is opening the door to self-analysis and judgement. Which is the root of the problem to begin with for people that are socially awkward....too much worrying about the "properness" of the situation and WORRYING about how people will receive the message. OBSERVE and FEEL the other parties conversation....and that tidbit will come out of your mouth at the proper time without any "thought" behind it in the least.

Well
You're just proposing a ridiculous assumption right there. I guess IF the boss is that cynical and IF the just is terrible and IF it really has nothing to do with me presenting myself confidently and IF the boss actually thinks that, etc...then Yes you are right! But the chance of that is slim. I have more faith in the world. More likely is that the guy just liked me, thought I had a great demeanor, and thought I'd make a good asset to the team.

Another crazy assumption. I'm sorry...but I believe that people are good-natured. If someone invites me to a party, I'd believe it's sincere.


None of what I described is crazy, ridiculous or cynical. It's called life. Maybe its the years I have on you, but trust me.....many things you believe are a blessing NOW, turn out to be a curse after time has passed. And vice versa. I hate playing the "age card" because to me its just a number and not indicative to ANYTHING in regard to maturity or life experiences. But the truth is, I'm not cynical...just a realist. And very often in life those things you have been striving for that you THOUGHT were going to make all your dreams come true, end up putting more obstacles and heartache in it. Maybe that's one more tip to take from me. To NOT take everyone at face value and believe them to be as sincere as you are.....because MANY time they are not.


I said in the original post that there is TONS of little nuggets of advice that I don't know yet, and I invited people to add to it.


Then why not TAKE some of my advice that I'm dishing out here, instead of being so defensive and spending this much time supporting your theories?


Either people listen to you and you're interesting, or otherwise...tough shit. It's faulty logic. It's a SKILL that you have to acquire. Most people don't think it's something to be analyzed, but it most certainly is! Political campaigns dissect every word, every intonation, and every pause of what someone says to see how impressionable it is. Politicians are trained to speak as effectively as possible. They aren't just born with it. I'm not just laying out the guidelines for any conversation...I'm giving advice about INVOLVED conversation. And THAT, most people don't know.


Again, you are discussing political experts going over a SPEECH with a fine toothed comb.....something that is a ONE way street, and NOT a 2 way (or more) dialogue. Yeah, people trying to be politically correct and trying to win as many people over as possible LECTURING other folks should put much cerebral emphasis on that lecture. But we are talking about conversing/socializing with folks.....that is comparing apples to oranges.


It sounds cliche, but it really is a matter of maturing and just not giving a shit (not about your looks, but about other people's opinions.) Many of us are still working on not giving a shit (including me), but it's the very core of the solution. People SEE when you're uncomfortable with yourself, and treat you differently. It's a matter of getting over that, so that they can see how confident you really are.


I pulled this quote from the post where you give the other poster some advice about looks. THAT right there, is THE BEST ADVICE you have given on the entire thread. And works too. Its confusing how you give that advice in dealing with the superficial outer appearance, and it took you this long to bring it to the table. I've been pretty much trying to say the same thing throughout this thread. If people would just lower/remove their inhibitions while engaging in conversation with folks, you wouldn't HAVE to put any textbook thought into obtaining "skills". Again, just BE YOURSELF and let the chips fall where they may.

In regard to inhibitions....let me ask you something. Why exactly do you think that alcohol has been such a prominent facet in socializing over the ages? And please understand I'm not talking about just some college frat bash with the beer funnel and hoping to score with a co-ed at the end of the night.....but in just about ALL social events? Its because the alcohol DOES lessen people's inhibitions, which in turn creates livelier/ more intriguing discourse. Whether you are on a business meeting trying to woo a client, or toasting the bride and groom at a wedding at a table with a bunch of strangers.....it DOES facilitate and enhance conversation. And that was why I made the "bag of weed" reference in my very first post. It wasn't just a joke as if..."well if you got weed, you'll now have friends". Nope, instead it is recognizing that if you took a couple hits of weed, or a few sips of alcohol....your anxiety would diminish and you would NOT be so inhibited. People drop the pretense and then REAL discourse takes place. I'm not suggesting to get totally baked or falling down drunk, just anything that can help you further rid yourself of of that anxiety, fear, or inhibition. Seriously, people could learn more and find better success in taking a few hits off a blunt and just going out there and being themselves.....then they could by adhering to your checklist and putting this much "thought" into the exercise.