According to the forum descriptions, game threads belong in HB instead of SG. That's fair enough in principle, but a lot of the game threads people in SG make that should be locked according to the rules do fit the nature of the forum and the mindset of the posters, and they don't fit the nature of HB at all.

This was the thread that prompted me to make this, but it's not the first time I've thought about it. (http://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2042974) It's not a criticism of the modding, it's about the rules for the forum themselves. SG's always had threads like these, they might not bring about discussion per se but they do bring about participation and interaction, and are entertaining for the people who post in them.

For the same reasons, I have a bit of a problem with one of the sections of XiPPiLLi's stickied 'rules' thread in the forum too, the one that reads;

" ---Threads with no valid initial content for discussion.
-"I am typing in this thread. You should try it!"
-"Look outside! Do you see what I see?!"
-"When this page gets to (X) pages, I will (Y)""

It's on the exact same grounds as with the game thread thing; participation, interaction and entertainment should be enough to let a thread stay open in my opinion, as long as it also involves some creativity and isn't something like "everybody quote this quote and make a big nested quote", which really does contribute nothing.

Basically, I think 'game threads' and the like should be allowed, since they fit the spirit of the forum, and the rules relaxed a little.

I'd particularly like to know what the other SG mods think about this.

I agree with this, as long as it's serving the users.

From the HB description:

"making game threads"

Saying that, there are certain things like Corrupt a Wish that have always been an SG thing.

I'm on the fence with this one.

I would think that people know my opinion of the Rules in SG.

G-A-R, B-A-G, E-E-E-E-E.

From the HB description:

"making game threads"

The list of stuff in the HB description is meant to imply that anything goes in there, not that those specific listed things only belong in HB. I think when we wrote it we just made a big list of things and whittled it down a bit. HB's more like a place where you can talk about anything (or, more often, nothing), not the set place for polls or game threads or asking dumb questions, which can fit into many forums.

Threads that garner discussion don't belong in HB.

The only important part of the HB description is that it is a non-conversationalist forum.

I've pointed out that I believe the rules are not needed and hurt SG as a forum at every opportunity, this is no different.

I whole heartedly concur. SG and HB are two completely different animals. Game threads rarely work in HB simply because of the nature of the posters. Its silly to confine game threads to a forum where they wouldn't even work, especially if started by well known sg regulars.

That's the way I look at it, too. I don't mind game threads in HB, but they never really go anywhere (and when they do, it's not really in the direction that the OP wants:p)

Game threads are so common in SG, and so uncommon everywhere else, that it seems kind of odd.

On a slightly related note, I just made a Post Your Desktop thread in SG, and it was moved to HB.

Never seen that happen before, Desktop threads seem to gain a lot of focus usually.

Corrupt a wish has been in SG for a long time now, certain game threads like that (that hold a sort of 'tradition' that the regulars uphold) should normally get overlooked. Infact, I dunno if I would even consider that a game thread.

Why wouldn't you consider that a game thread?

Why wouldn't you consider that a game thread?

Because it has much more content to it then what normally pops up and gets moved to HB?

A thread can have content and still be a game thread. And still be an SG thread even if it doesn't have that much content.

Post pictures/screenshots of x/y/z, post the contents of your wallet/pockets, corrupt a wish, x/y/z the poster above you, Totse island/country, zombie/desert island survival, your favourite x/y/z, do you do this/that/whatever, what can you see from your window... all those can fall under either 'game threads' or XiP's 'threads with no valid initial content for discussion'. All are typical SG threads, but could be--and usually are--locked under the current rules. All encourage participation and interaction, which IMO is justification enough to allow them.

If threads that have been around for a long time should be allowed on the grounds of tradition, surely different threads of the same general type should be too? Today's new thread is tomorrow's tradition, the regulars won't be able to start anything new like that if it's only the old and established ones that are allowed.

These kind of threads are what SG is about more than anything else. Disallowing them hasn't changed the focus of the forum, it just creates conflict.

I have to agree with this.

I mean on the one hand I wouldn't mind being looser and allow some games. But if some, why not others?

We could change the forum description, but then what's to separate SG from HB?

Moved game threads don't go over well in HB. More reason to just close them in SG and tell people to make game threads in HB.

I think SG was meant to be a discussion forum and HB was to play around in. Again, if we make SG closer to HB, why bother having 2 forums them.

Yes, HB and SG are two different cultures now. SG and BLTC are different cultures too, but we don't let drug questions stay in SG. We move them.

And if people started bitching about not being able to post drug questions in SG we all would tell them to basically stfu. I don't see why it should be different when they bitch about not being able to post HB type threads in SG?

Granted that some of the things now being closed were once allowed in SG. But it's not that long ago that there was no HB. So of course they used to go in SG.

And I know that since HB has been in existence some of these threads have still appeared in SG. Well the Mods back then chose to let it go. That was their option. But I feel that we're going to have forum descriptions - and I'm not even suggesting that we don't - then we should require that people follow them.

If the description is changed, I of course will follow those. But I don't think they should be changed.

A while ago I was asked - no, it was a suggestion - that I mellow out a bit. And I think I have a lot. Most people are now fine with me. Yes, there are still a few very vocal folks who don't like me. But they are mostly the same ones that have been bitching since day one.

I now take a more generous view of a thread and if it can possibly fit in the forum description I will usually leave it now. But I still will close or move things that I feel are outside of the description.

I have to agree with this.

I mean on the one hand I wouldn't mind being looser and allow some games. But if some, why not others?

We could change the forum description, but then what's to separate SG from HB?

Moved game threads don't go over well in HB. More reason to just close them in SG and tell people to make game threads in HB.

I think SG was meant to be a discussion forum and HB was to play around in. Again, if we make SG closer to HB, why bother having 2 forums them.

Yes, HB and SG are two different cultures now. SG and BLTC are different cultures too, but we don't let drug questions stay in SG. We move them.

And if people started bitching about not being able to post drug questions in SG we all would tell them to basically stfu. I don't see why it should be different when they bitch about not being able to post HB type threads in SG?

Granted that some of the things now being closed were once allowed in SG. But it's not that long ago that there was no HB. So of course they used to go in SG.

And I know that since HB has been in existence some of these threads have still appeared in SG. Well the Mods back then chose to let it go. That was their option. But I feel that we're going to have forum descriptions - and I'm not even suggesting that we don't - then we should require that people follow them.

If the description is changed, I of course will follow those. But I don't think they should be changed.

A while ago I was asked - no, it was a suggestion - that I mellow out a bit. And I think I have a lot. Most people are now fine with me. Yes, there are still a few very vocal folks who don't like me. But they are mostly the same ones that have been bitching since day one.

I now take a more generous view of a thread and if it can possibly fit in the forum description I will usually leave it now. But I still will close or move things that I feel are outside of the description.

The thing is, SG and HB, on the surface, are pretty much the same. Both are general forums, and a fair amount of screwing around goes on in each. The difference is, HB is more relaxed, and both forums have completely different usersets. Two usersets, I might add, that have quite a bit of disdain for each other.

So getting rid of one is obviously not the answer. Not only would it alienate many users, it just doesn't make sense, because they are in essence, completely different forums.

We should allow games in SG because thats where they thrive. SG posters love corrupting the wish above them and taking pictures of their front lawn. HB posters don't. So why relegate threads to an area where they are destined to fail?

In my mind, the forum description shouldn't come into play in this at all. Forum descriptions can be changed easily. Don't let that stop you from allowing threads that are truly part of SG culture.

I said I know SG and HB are two different cultures.

I said I didn't think they should become one forum.

I said I'd go along with a change in description, if that's what's decided.

But if you are going to allow game threads in SG, then you do need to change the forum descriptions to take games from HB and give it to SG. Why have forum descriptions if you're not going to follow them?

And no, I don't mean to be hard ass and follow to a t. But, as I said, if you allow one type of game thread, people will ask why not their game thread. And if you're going to allow all game threads, let the forum description reflect that.

That's all I'm saying.

Yeah, the forum descriptions would definitely need tweaking if this was to be changed; it's them and the rules that I see as the problem. Like I said earlier, the "making game threads" part of the HB forum description wasn't meant to imply that HB is the only place for game threads, even if it had that effect.

'Game threads' aren't just part of SG, they're part of pretty much every general discussion board on internet forums. They don't fit the spirit of HB at all (and telling users to go post them there doesn't change that; they just get hijacked or sink), and they do SG. IMO participation in a game thread would fall under the umbrella of conversation anyway, just at the looser end of the scale. If it was agreed on to change this, it'd be a simple matter of removing the 'making game threads' section of the HB forum description and replacing it with something else ('grand plans' was the first thing that popped into my head because it kinda rhymes with 'handstands', but I'll ask Euda and MS about it) and putting 'some' in before the word 'conversation' in the SG description, which would allow things like game threads to be posted while still allowing us to maintain standards and remove threads that actually lack content (which, along with the different userbases, would still keep SG and HB pretty separate).

I do think disallowing these things kills the spirit of SG a bit. I've had a few emails from regulars asking about it, and there was a big complaint thread about game threads being closed a little while back. Obviously it's ultimately down to the mods' discretion as to what belongs in the forum and what doesn't, but when longer-term regulars are unhappy with it (not just kidiots whining and jumping on a bandwagon when a few threads get rightly locked) it seems like something's wrong to me; they're the ones who made the forum what it is and should be allowed greater input on what should be allowed.

Again, this isn't anything negative about your modding, Meta, nor was it just aimed at you. You're quite right in saying you think you've mellowed out quite a bit, it's just the game threads rule I disagree with. Nothing wrong with following rules when it's what our position entails, I just have a problem with those rules.

Games = playing around.

People play games with the threads in HB.

People are taking names and descriptions too seriously again.

Maybe HB should have its name changed to Sub-Humans In Training...:).

Maybe HB should have its name changed to Sub-Humans In Training...:).


I always did like that name.

I always did like that name.

SHIT would be a great forum.

SHIT would be a great forum.

LOL, FORUM

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