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| My God Can Beat the Shit Out of Your God For discussing any and all religious viewpoints. Intolerance will not be tolerated. Keeping your sense of humor is required. Posting messages about theological paradoxes is encouraged. |
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# 1
2007-08-16, 06:17
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The Point of the Book of Job
I've never quite understood this book.
There's the objection most nonbelievers have with it, of course: that God allows a man's life to be made hell merely to prove a point. On a whim. A bet with Satan.
The usual reply, though, is that this is to... show us something? I'm not sure, actually, but I assume the usual reply has SOMETHING to do with the book teaching us things.
But what does it teach us?
I've read it at least twice, and each time I am bewildered. The whole deal is set up for a few chapters; Satan rains horrible things upon Job for a little bit; then 80% of the book is Job's friends giving him monologues on the power and glory of God and how God is trying to teach Job stuff.
Then in the last three or four chapters, God comes from the clouds and is like "LOL FRIENDS-OF-JOB, YOU'RE WRONG, STFU, I AM THE LORD WHO IS GREAT." He pontificates on how great he is for the chapters, gives Job some stuff (but doesn't resurrect those killed or anything), then the book ends.
Uh... I just spent 42 chapters learning and studying upon exegeses that WEREN'T EVEN RIGHT? Why INCLUDE so many?! It's like a, I don't know, woodworking book that details for chapter upon chapter on how to make a cabinet, that then ends by saying "but DON'T DO THIS THIS IS WRONG" and not even explaining WHY.
It just confused me.  No offense intended to any Christians; excuse me if the tone is somewhat exasperated.
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# 2
2007-08-16, 09:23
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Moderator
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dodging the rain and tractors
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Re: The Point of the Book of Job
First off it would be more accurate to speak of the bookS of Job. You see it is at least two or three (I can't remember off the top of my head) books quite badly stitched together.
Secondly the original account is perhaps the oldest part of the bible, going back to time when the Sumerians hadn't even begun to think about fun stuff a bright boy might do with mud and straw.
If you google up 'Babylonian Job' you'll no doubt find reams of history.
Its old...really really OLD.
So its not surprising that the meaning is a bit unclear.
The original meaning was probably something along the lines of god has a fucking lousy/sick sense of humour.
Yes I am being serious.
Remember the 'god' of the original Job wasn't 'our' God but some near eastern deity-who as a rule enjoyed fucking with humanity.
oh btw , you do realise the biblical account makes clear that 'satan' was a human being...i did a thread about that I think...
__________________
Eoghan, Samwise gamgee. The truth is out there, people.
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# 3
2007-08-16, 10:29
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Re: The Point of the Book of Job
man who knows why anything happens
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# 4
2007-08-16, 11:04
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Moderator
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dodging the rain and tractors
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Re: The Point of the Book of Job
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizzo in a box
man who knows why anything happens
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"Shit happens." Book Of Ketch, Chapter One verse 1.
__________________
Eoghan, Samwise gamgee. The truth is out there, people.
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# 5
2007-08-16, 20:23
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Moderator
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Wasilla, Alaska
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Re: The Point of the Book of Job
If nothing else, Job shows how arbitrary and petty the OT god could be.
Maybe that was what Shakespeare had in mind when he wrote "as flies to wanton boys are we to the gods--they kill us for their sport." Or something like that.
__________________
"Love is infallible; it has no errors, for all errors are the want of love." -- William Law
"The astrolabe of the mysteries of God is Love." -- Rumi
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# 6
2007-08-18, 04:50
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Re: The Point of the Book of Job
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackketch
The original meaning was probably something along the lines of god has a fucking lousy/sick sense of humour.
Yes I am being serious.
Remember the 'god' of the original Job wasn't 'our' God but some near eastern deity-who as a rule enjoyed fucking with humanity.
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God was originally a badguy? 
Quote:
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oh btw , you do realise the biblical account makes clear that 'satan' was a human being...i did a thread about that I think...
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You posted about how "Satan" means "adversary", I think... but I can't remember why you said he was human.
Quote:
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If nothing else, Job shows how arbitrary and petty the OT god could be.
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No argument there. Job's family is, after all, never returned.
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# 7
2007-08-18, 06:36
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Moderator
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dodging the rain and tractors
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Re: The Point of the Book of Job
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted_Ferret
God was originally a badguy?
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Not so much 'bad' but more spoilt child with a toybox (us!).
__________________
Eoghan, Samwise gamgee. The truth is out there, people.
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# 8
2007-08-18, 19:36
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Re: The Point of the Book of Job
God did it in hope of changing satan's ways. It ain't pointless, though his attempt was unsuccessful.
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# 9
2007-08-18, 21:18
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Re: The Point of the Book of Job
The book of Job teaches that WHEN bad shit happens to the faithful (the SAME shit everyone suffers through btw) it is a test of God. It teaches that ALL the pointless drama of this life has a godly purpose. It is designed to teach the sheep about YET AGAIN not questioning the almighty sky father.
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# 10
2007-08-18, 21:37
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Regular
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MurfreesboroTn USA
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Re: The Point of the Book of Job
If you were a person, I had just met, would I let you know me instantly? No. We would have to establish trust. Point God isn't going to unveil himself to someone who doesn't even believe in Him.
The Word is God, these two should never EVER be separated ESPECIALLY since God PLACES His Word above His name.
I was going to say alot on this, until I heard that I need to say this. Drink water for your own cistern. That is to say, you need a relationship with Jesus Christ, so you can ask Him questions and have Him answer your questions. Of course to establish a relationship you must first believe. If you can't accept and believe the simple Gospel of Jesus Christ, how can you expect to know and have insight into the intimate things of Him? You must know Him.. and hearing ABOUT Him doesn't mean you know Him. More importantly YOU must be KNOWN BY HIM.
I love you,
-A servant.
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#11
2007-08-18, 21:43 |
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Re: The Point of the Book of Job
Quote:
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Originally Posted by HellzShellz
If you were a person, I had just met, would I let you know me instantly? No. We would have to establish trust. Point God isn't going to unveil himself to someone who doesn't even believe in Him.
The Word is God, these two should never EVER be separated ESPECIALLY since God PLACES His Word above His name.
I was going to say alot on this, until I heard that I need to say this. Drink water for your own cistern. That is to say, you need a relationship with Jesus Christ, so you can ask Him questions and have Him answer your questions. Of course to establish a relationship you must first believe. If you can't accept and believe the simple Gospel of Jesus Christ, how can you expect to know and have insight into the intimate things of Him? You must know Him.. and hearing ABOUT Him doesn't mean you know Him. More importantly YOU must be KNOWN BY HIM.
I love you,
-A servant.
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Little off topic there but......I know Jesus Christ. I know the man every bit as well as you do. I sit beneath him everyday. I wear sun screen to protect myself from him else I will become sonburned. If I stare to long at the son I will go blind. Sometimes the moon passes in front of the son creating an eclipse. Scientists continue to study and document son spots.
I know the son very well.
go fuck your mother mary jesus christ,
-An evil deplorable wretched filthy sinner |
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#12
2007-08-18, 23:18 |
Savin_Jesus 
Regular
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Re: The Point of the Book of Job
Srsly, I've read the books a handful of times. I like them, but they are missing a lot of shit. The whole bible is.
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#13
2007-08-19, 01:23 |
Twisted_Ferret
Regular
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Re: The Point of the Book of Job
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Howard Radford
God did it in hope of changing satan's ways. It ain't pointless, though his attempt was unsuccessful.
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What are we supposed to get out of it?
The book of Job teaches that WHEN bad shit happens to the faithful (the SAME shit everyone suffers through btw) it is a test of God. It teaches that ALL the pointless drama of this life has a godly purpose. It is designed to teach the sheep about YET AGAIN not questioning the almighty sky father.
Sounds valid to me, but why waste so much damn time on Eliphaz, Bildad, & co?!
Not so much 'bad' but more spoilt child with a toybox (us!).
Seems like a little of a sophisticated view for the ancients to have had!
If you were a person, I had just met, would I let you know me instantly? No. We would have to establish trust. Point God isn't going to unveil himself to someone who doesn't even believe in Him.
The Word is God, these two should never EVER be separated ESPECIALLY since God PLACES His Word above His name.
I was going to say alot on this, until I heard that I need to say this. Drink water for your own cistern. That is to say, you need a relationship with Jesus Christ, so you can ask Him questions and have Him answer your questions. Of course to establish a relationship you must first believe. If you can't accept and believe the simple Gospel of Jesus Christ, how can you expect to know and have insight into the intimate things of Him? You must know Him.. and hearing ABOUT Him doesn't mean you know Him. More importantly YOU must be KNOWN BY HIM.
I love you,
-A servant.
It could be, but that doesn't help me understand now, and I'm afraid I can't make myself believe just to understand a Biblical book. :p
Srsly, I've read the books a handful of times. I like them, but they are missing a lot of shit. The whole bible is.
"The books" meaning the books of Job? |
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#14
2007-08-20, 01:02 |
Taquito
Regular
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Re: The Point of the Book of Job
So God failed??!?!!11
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#15
2007-08-21, 23:20 |
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Re: The Point of the Book of Job
I've never quite understood this book.
There's the objection most nonbelievers have with it, of course: that God allows a man's life to be made hell merely to prove a point. On a whim. A bet with Satan.
It's supposed to explain why bad things happen to good people. I don't know, I personally think the old testament is a bunch of fairy stories complied by a bunch of early stoners, and I consider myself to be a Christian (kind of).
There is a play called "J.B." by Archibald MacLeish, and it has some very interesting discussion about the meaning of the book of Job, you might find it informative if you read into it enough.
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#16
2007-08-25, 05:28 |
crazed_hamster
Regular
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Re: The Point of the Book of Job
The Book of Job shows how none are righteous, except for God.
You have the four friends, and, if I remember correctly, the first three are trying to persuade Job that God is punishing him.
Job is jabbering about how righteous he is, until the fourth friend yells at Job, asking how Job can possibly think God has done something wrong when EVERYONE knows that God can do whatever he likes, and that what God does is perfect, regardless.
Then God booms down from Heaven, and jabbers for a spell confirming what the last friend just said to Job.
The point of having all of Job's friends come over for a party is so the five of them can have a pseudo-intellectual discussion showing from different angles, and in really gay language, how awesome God is.
The book also shows how God is kind to those He molests but who remain faithful to Him. For the same reason some wives won't leave their abusive husbands, because they are unsure of the future without their husband, and after all the husband is a good provider, "so what if he beats me black and blue every now and then, I still love him."
Job remains faithful to God because, he's always been faithful to God, and he's a scared little bitch, so God rewards him by giving him back a hundred times more than He took.
A thought: If, instead of Job saying, "Though he slay me, yet will I trust in Him", Job would have said, "Fuck you, God! You're a malicious cunt." Then he would have been awesome. I bet even HellzShellz would want to blow him.
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