I just finished watching this movie from this thread in IFIOTW.

http://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2029044

Jesus fucking Christ. I had no idea. No fucking clue. I am dazed and infuriated! How the fuck does this get by in our country?

Thinking on it, I'd rather pay more taxes than spend $200 a fucking month on some pills or $1200 for ONE CAT scan or whatever. Wouldn't you? Seeing as EVERYONE is helped from my tax money, I'd feel pretty damn good about paying it.

Question: How much (In U.S. dollars) does the average European pay in taxes v.s. U.S. taxes?

thats a stupid question, it has to do with income.

heres australia's

Taxable income
Tax on this income

$1 – $6,000
Nil

$6,001 – $30,000
15c for each $1 over $6,000

$30,001 – $75,000
$3,600 plus 30c for each $1 over $30,000

$75,001 – $150,000
$17,100 plus 40c for each $1 over $75,000

$150,001 and over
$47,100 plus 45c for each $1 over $150,000

it has to do with peoples state of mind. it appears americans are happy to let poor people die if they cannot afford treatment, it's the way capitalism works, the rest of the western world would rather help people.

i quite like australian health care the way it is now. it makes you contribute, but if you cannot pay then you don't bleed to death on the streets or suffer sub-standard care. it is, as with all health systems, completely underfunded, but it does a brillian job considering.

I saw the same movie.

He made some good points. Companies shouldn't be making money off of people's health.

It is the one thing that everyone has. But I don't know how the government would dismantle the healthcare system, and socialize it.

And everyone is so scared of socialization. Joseph McCarthy and others ruined a lot of good aspects of the left side of thinking.

I am pretty moderate, but free healthcare is a must. 50% of all homeless people are mentally ill, and the lack of available treatment keeps them that way.

Healthcare for all would kill a shitload of birds with one stone, but the one stone is so hard to lift, that it will be a challenge to get it moving.

Not even full health coverage. If the US just socialized preventative health care, there would be a lot less problems. Preventative health care catches problems early and corrects them if possible. It tells people what they should stop doing to prevent such problems from occurring. US citizens are afraid of paying for those expensive surgeries for someone they don't know. But what they don't realize is that if the person they don't know just had preventative health care, that expensive surgery most likely wouldn't have even occurred.

This is why so many American people are fat and lazy. They have no clue about how to maintain their bodies and health. At the very least, the US should socialize preventative health care. It is, after all, the cheapest and most effective part of health care. "It's easier to prevent a cold than to cure one" kind of thing.

Ya that movie was pretty shocking. I never knew it was that bad over there. If you get hurt just hold in the pain and come over to canada. We'll fix you up and send you back home, just bring some cheap liquire over and give it to some random person as thankyou.

How is that up? I don't see how Weinsteins haven't ripped that off the net yet...

Take anything you hear from Michael Moore with a grain of salt. The man is a master of deception, lies, and propaganda.

Alright, I think Michael Moore is a douchebag, but even if he blew it out of proportion it is still a problem. The United States is suppose to be the greatest country on earth, but we have a generally average health care system compared to the rest of the world. I'm not a big fan of taxes because some of our money is used for stupid programs that never work out, but this is something I expect to be taxed for. I'm from a middle class family, only because my dad works his ass off. My mom can't work due to a medical procedure that accidently fucked with her diaphragm. She went in to a simple surgery and came out disabled, she's now on Social Security, which isn't much. We have medical bills after medical bills, most of them prescriptions that she has to take. We're just lucky enough that my dad has a good job and it comes with insurance. If we didn't have that we'd be fucked, so I feel grateful. Although, I do feel that this could easily happen to some family without insurance and how tough it must be for them.

I know some people argue that they don't want the same people who run the postal service, social security..etc running our nations health care system. I just don't buy that arguement. If we funded enough money into a socialized medicine program it would be just as well run as Australia's, it's possible it could be better. How is better when a bunch of rich people run a private healthcare system than the people who run other government agencies? These people don't care about general health, they care about the money that's coming their way.

People who argue that they don't want to give their money to the program because they take care of themselves is also a weak arguement. One of these days you or a friend/family member might be put into a tough finacial situation and won't be able to afford insurance.

I'd be willing to take a chunk out of my income for a socialized medical program...

And this is coming from someone who is a moderate right down the line not from someone very liberal.

ill pay that one. moore does present his information in an incredibly bias and sometimes completely out of context, sacraficing truth for a political point. ive been thinking about this recently, and one thing that comes to mind is that it is a balance. the majority of corporate media is using the exact same technique for the opposite viewpoint.

if he presented everything in a logical and completely fair point of view, the film would become too cerebral for most people and it would just be another random documentary. moore has stated many times that he wants america to become the best it can be, and this is what the population reacts to; sensationalistic crap and one sided views.

would global warming be a recognised issue if gores film devoted 50% of it's time to sceptics and corporate disinformation artists?

moore does some very good crititism on the american culture, and although his techniques leave him open to rebuttal and abuse, i think the complete bias he produces his films with is completely justified.

so what if taxes paid for free healthcare and the companies that people worked for paid peoples taxes? so america gets free healthcare, while rich ass giant corporations like wal-mart have to pay for it?