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Mad Scientists Science and Mathematics discussion-- theories, arguments, citations, proofs and pudding.

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  #1   Add Toddler Fondler to your ignore list  
Old 2007-06-19, 05:18
Toddler Fondler Toddler Fondler is offline
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Default Why did love evolve?

I'm speaking of romantic love. I ask this and I'm told that it's so we can raise our offspring better, but didn't earlier humans, earliest humans, and our ancestors live in huge packs? Why would the father and mother need to love eachother? Protection is already provided by the rest of the pack. Monogamy seems pretty stupid. I mean, you have sex, your seed spreads, what's the use of continuing to be with one person? I'm not speaking of modern times, where, at least in the Western civilization, a mom and dad live together with their offspring for a while. That's a pretty recent invention. So, why did romantic love happen?
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  #2   Add Sentinel to your ignore list  
Old 2007-06-19, 15:27
Sentinel Sentinel is offline
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Default Re: Why did love evolve?

You know, I think it's more of a social construct. Evolutionary biology postulates that early man was actually very promiscuous (because the men who slept with the most women had the most kids, those genes were passed down) and women evolved to be monogamous because they needed a man to protect them while they raised their children. Don't go talking about all this around feminists, though...they don't like it one bit.
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  #3   Add TWENTY_TWENTY_7 to your ignore list  
Old 2007-06-21, 13:32
TWENTY_TWENTY_7 TWENTY_TWENTY_7 is offline
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Default Re: Why did love evolve?

I don't think you can ask why something evolved as evolution doesn't occur with a goal in mind. You can ask how it came about though.

My guess is that it is just a continuation of the thing that keeps packs of animals together that came about as a result of the improved quality of the human brain and originated when parents cared for their children enough to help them out of danger and therefore allow them to breed.

Just a guess though.
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  #4   Add Toddler Fondler to your ignore list  
Old 2007-06-21, 14:31
Toddler Fondler Toddler Fondler is offline
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Default Re: Why did love evolve?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TWENTY_TWENTY_7 View Post
I don't think you can ask why something evolved as evolution doesn't occur with a goal in mind. You can ask how it came about though.

My guess is that it is just a continuation of the thing that keeps packs of animals together that came about as a result of the improved quality of the human brain and originated when parents cared for their children enough to help them out of danger and therefore allow them to breed.

Just a guess though.
Again, why does loving your children have anything to do with the mother and father? They lived in packs, protection was already provided. Narrowing it down to just a mother and father actually goes against survival strategy.
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  #5   Add Sentinel to your ignore list  
Old 2007-06-21, 17:09
Sentinel Sentinel is offline
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Default Re: Why did love evolve?

there's plenty of wild animals that do the same thing we do.
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  #6   Add Toddler Fondler to your ignore list  
Old 2007-06-21, 17:42
Toddler Fondler Toddler Fondler is offline
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Harlem, Connecticut Toddler Fondler is helpful
Default Re: Why did love evolve?

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Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
there's plenty of wild animals that do the same thing we do.
Sexual monogamy in the animal kingdom is extremely, extremely rare. Even wolves and swans (who have been labeled as mating for life) often act promiscuously. Our closest relatives in the animal kingdom (bonobo chimpanzees) aren't monogamous. Everyone has sex with everyone. Monogamy is unheard of there.
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  #7   Add Real.PUA to your ignore list  
Old 2007-06-22, 01:15
Real.PUA Real.PUA is offline
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Default Re: Why did love evolve?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toddler Fondler View Post
Sexual monogamy in the animal kingdom is extremely, extremely rare. Even wolves and swans (who have been labeled as mating for life) often act promiscuously. Our closest relatives in the animal kingdom (bonobo chimpanzees) aren't monogamous. Everyone has sex with everyone. Monogamy is unheard of there.
Humans aren't monogamous either...and bonobos aren't the only chimpanzee out there. But one should look at the different lifestyles of various primates and compare them to humans... There is variety out there.

Humans are serial monogamists with some cheating on the side. We don't put all our genetic eggs in one basket. The human baby is vulnerable and requires a lot more care than other primate offspring, thus the strength of a pair bond between parents could be an advantage. The fact that we lived in small hunter-gatherer societies doesn't change this.
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  #8   Add NewRage to your ignore list  
Old 2007-06-22, 05:31
NewRage NewRage is offline
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Default Re: Why did love evolve?

All animals take care of their own offspring, at least all k-selection animals do. Even in the incredibly large herds of wildebeest, the herd offers protection, but babies stick with their mommy. Then mommy tends to stick by daddy, because daddy is stronger and offers better protection.

I'm not really sure what your question is, but it doesn't really matter. If it's about mommy loving daddy, most female animals stick by a male animal for protection. If it's about parents loving their kids, all k-selection animals (small litters, with a long infancy) stick with their parents.

If it's about monogamy, you have religion to blame. Humans aren't coded to stick with one mate, and in this day and age it is rare to meet someone over 20 that hasn't had sex with 2 different people. It's religions that implanted the idea of "You should wait til your married" and then everyone knows you shouldn't cheat on your spouse.
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  #9   Add Toddler Fondler to your ignore list  
Old 2007-06-22, 08:30
Toddler Fondler Toddler Fondler is offline
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Harlem, Connecticut Toddler Fondler is helpful
Default Re: Why did love evolve?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewRage View Post
All animals take care of their own offspring, at least all k-selection animals do. Even in the incredibly large herds of wildebeest, the herd offers protection, but babies stick with their mommy. Then mommy tends to stick by daddy, because daddy is stronger and offers better protection.

I'm not really sure what your question is, but it doesn't really matter. If it's about mommy loving daddy, most female animals stick by a male animal for protection. If it's about parents loving their kids, all k-selection animals (small litters, with a long infancy) stick with their parents.

If it's about monogamy, you have religion to blame. Humans aren't coded to stick with one mate, and in this day and age it is rare to meet someone over 20 that hasn't had sex with 2 different people. It's religions that implanted the idea of "You should wait til your married" and then everyone knows you shouldn't cheat on your spouse.
What about relationships though? Like, outside marriage relationships. Why is cheating so hurtful then? We're all just mammals, it's in our nature. I know militant atheists that are still monogamous, so I think it's an elective thing. It's weird. Even loving your kids isn't an instinct. I can name 4 mothers off the top of my head that treat their kids like shit, and I don't think I can remember all the fathers I've known about that aren't even in the picture. Weird how we make our own nature, but I digress.

When you look at our closest relatives in the animal kingdom, it doesn't seem to match up. Chimpanzees mate solely for reproduction, and bonobo chimpanzees fuck everything (their offspring, their family, gay relations, etc.) and they get along pretty fine. Monogamy seems to be detrimental to the survival of the species.

I can definitely buy it being a religion/cultural thing though. Monogamy, that is.
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  #10   Add Indigoinvader111 to your ignore list  
Old 2007-06-22, 17:00
Indigoinvader111 Indigoinvader111 is offline
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Default Re: Why did love evolve?

Sentinel is 100% correct.

Just to add, (early) man would not waste his time hunting for and providing for a child that wasn't his. We want to pass on our genes. "Marriage" or monogamy developed because there was a better chance that our partner (wife) was rasing our genetic offspring, our child. That's why male cats kill kittens. So the females will go into heat and he can pass along their seed.

Having a pair-bond incresed the chances of the offspring of the resulted pairing to survive to reproductive age and continue the process.

This phenomenon has evoled or has been describes as love.

Romatic love, or the concept of it, didn't start until the middle ages with the minstrels, but that's another thread.
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This thread continued for 2 pages in the real archive, 18 posts total - only page 1 survived here.
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