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Backyard Ballistics This forum is dedicated to the safe teaching and responsible handling of high and low explosives. You will not find any information on how to make "bombs" or any such device(s) . Backyard ballistics will teach you the science and the art of pyrotechnics and how to manufacture and use explosives/pyrotechnics safely and responsibly. Backyard ballistics is also a haven for rocketry and pneumatic cannons. All information contained within this forum is for educational purposes ONLY. Totse does not accept responsiblity for any incident involving the use of the information contained within this forum.

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  #1   Add 1Furbie to your ignore list  
Old 2007-06-06, 00:13
1Furbie 1Furbie is offline
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Default KCLO4 Cell Help

I have decided to make a kclo3/4 cell, but I have run into troubles. I am planning on a platinum/stainless steel cell. Im planning on sodium chloride solution.

1) What would be a good power source?

2)What is a good way to check ph without dissesembling th cell?

3)What do most people here use to filter out the chlorate that never got to kclo4?

4) Any Safety precautions with the CL?

5) I heard dd used titanium cathode, would this work?
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  #2   Add deathDiver to your ignore list  
Old 2007-06-06, 04:20
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Default Re: KCLO4 Cell Help

wow.. I am used in this ok let me start with this:

#1 power supply should be over 8 amps IIRC. You can use a 3 amp powersupply from a computer but it will take a long time. If you saw my video it used a 30+ amp supply. Also the more amps you have going though makes more heat, this will make the CLO3/4 form faster...yet watch out for the heat cracking the glass and making (cloric?) acid.

#2 lumis paper works yet you have to turn it off and un do the lid letting CL2 out. If you had the tool you may rig a small hole to let a small drip out when you want to.

#3 water is a solvent to clo3, not clo4. So the clo4 will sink to the bottom as the clo3 is adsorbed by the water.

#4 yes a Ti cathode is a good way to go, it will erode less then steel.
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  #3   Add Random_Looney to your ignore list  
Old 2007-06-06, 04:23
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Default Re: KCLO4 Cell Help

You should make a perchlorate cell tut. I had started one at one point, but alas.
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  #4   Add deathDiver to your ignore list  
Old 2007-06-06, 04:27
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Default Re: KCLO4 Cell Help

I would....but most of the members i make it for know how to make one. Yet i guess i can do it now that i fixed my powersupply....we will see. I just don't want it to end up on some cookbook textfile site and hurting people.
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  #5   Add Mokothar to your ignore list  
Old 2007-06-06, 09:18
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Default Re: KCLO4 Cell Help

I'm confident that most people who go through the trouble of building one of those cells will be persistent enough to make sure it's safe.
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  #6   Add Von Bass to your ignore list  
Old 2007-06-06, 15:41
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Default Re: KCLO4 Cell Help

There is the chlorate cell tutorial on frogfot, very interesting and complete.

http://www.frogfot.com/synthesis/chlorateel.html
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  #7   Add Flamethrowa to your ignore list  
Old 2007-06-06, 19:12
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Default Re: KCLO4 Cell Help

AFAIK, remove a bit of electrolyte and boil it to destroy any hypochlorite, then test with litmus. Otherwise it will just bleach the paper very quickly.
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  #8   Add BOMBS OVER BEIRUT to your ignore list  
Old 2007-06-07, 23:05
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Default Re: KCLO4 Cell Help

1) What would be a good power source?
There is really no way to find the ideal voltage of a cell exactly, but you can come close by using the nernst equation for your cell and modifying your reaction quotent for activity changes due to temperature. The only true way to find ideal voltage in a cell (which will change as the reaction goes towards completion) is to experimentally scan various voltages. Cell potentials, junction potentials, diffusion rates, etc make it nearly impossible to do on paper.

dD is right with amperage though, you want as much as possible. This works of the principals of kinetics, reactions are affected by the state, concentration, and temperature of the reactants. Electrolytic cells are forced redox reactions, so electrons are acting as reactants. By increasing the amperage (current) you are increasing the amount of electrons flowing into the system at a given time, forcing the reaction to go faster.

2)What is a good way to check ph without dissesembling th cell?
Probably a glass pH electrode, or simmilar model used for fish tanks. Just seal one through the top deep enough into the cell that it comes in contact with the solution.

3)What do most people here use to filter out the chlorate that never got to kclo4?
Fractional crystalization I would think...

4) Any Safety precautions with the CL?
Cl2(g) can be removed by bubbling through water. I could reccomend you add activated carbon to the outlet pipes too, and pack it well. Bring that water to a waste to a chemical disposal company.

5) I heard dd used titanium cathode, would this work?
The composition of your electrode is really only useful if you want to avoid corrosion. You could really go with something as cheap as graphite rod, you'd just have to replace them more.
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  #9   Add deathDiver to your ignore list  
Old 2007-06-08, 19:36
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Default Re: KCLO4 Cell Help

beirut! get your ass on IRC and show me pics of YOUR cell
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  #10   Add Flamethrowa to your ignore list  
Old 2007-06-08, 19:49
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Default Re: KCLO4 Cell Help

Chlorine can be bubbled into warm NaOH to give a mix of NaCl and NaClO3 or if cold it'll be NaCl and NaClO.

Also I'm pretty sure too much current reduces efficiency due to more chlorine being lost, either expelled with the huge amount of bubbles or because the cell will become quite warm.
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This thread continued for 2 pages in the real archive, 14 posts total - only page 1 survived here.
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