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| News of the Temple News about what's happening on this web site and BBS. Please keep posts on topic. |
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#1
 2007-05-31, 23:55 |
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 What's an infraction?
These are the current infractions.
Posted unsolicited phone numbers or other personal info
Threatened someone with physical harm
Posted a link to a harmful script (password stealer, system crasher, other assorted nasties) that was not identified as a harmful script
Posted spam or other advertisements. We hate SPAM
Attempt to hack, destroy, deface, or otherwise damage totse.com
Multiple accounts
Using the message boards to organize criminal activity
Privacy violation: Posted another user's real name or personal info or picture
Posting passwords to private computer systems
Posted scam / attempting to rip-off members
Posted message with credit card or calling card numbers
There's been a few differences of opinion as to how these apply, particularly the SPAM rule. SPAM is an advertisement for services, generally unrelated to the forum it's posted in.
Someone posting something you don't like reading is not an infraction.
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#2
2007-06-01, 01:06 |
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Regular
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Canberra Australia
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Re: What's an infraction?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jeff Hunter
These are the current infractions.
Posted unsolicited phone numbers or other personal info
Threatened someone with physical harm
Posted a link to a harmful script (password stealer, system crasher, other assorted nasties) that was not identified as a harmful script
Posted spam or other advertisements. We hate SPAM
Attempt to hack, destroy, deface, or otherwise damage totse.com
Multiple accounts
Using the message boards to organize criminal activity
Privacy violation: Posted another user's real name or personal info or picture
Posting passwords to private computer systems
Posted scam / attempting to rip-off members
Posted message with credit card or calling card numbers
There's been a few differences of opinion as to how these apply, particularly the SPAM rule. SPAM is an advertisement for services, generally unrelated to the forum it's posted in.
Someone posting something you don't like reading is not an infraction.
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Jeff is there a way to put "grievance to the moderators/admin" as an infraction or something? Trolls will follow me at least around the boards ruining threads of my creation to get back at me, it's in the FAQ. It's a toothless tiger if they are warned to not do something but nothing to back it up with. |
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#3
2007-06-01, 02:24 |
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Re: What's an infraction?
So what of page stretching and flooding? I've considered those spam.
What would we classify those as?
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#4
2007-06-01, 02:27 |
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Regular
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Canberra Australia
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Re: What's an infraction?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by XiPPiLLi
So what of page stretching and flooding? I've considered those spam.
What would we classify those as?
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I consider those spam as well. |
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#5
2007-06-01, 02:32 |
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Moderator
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dodging the rain and tractors
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Re: What's an infraction?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by XiPPiLLi
So what of page stretching and flooding? I've considered those spam.
What would we classify those as?
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Don't they fall under "Attempt to hack, destroy, deface, or otherwise damage totse.com" ?!
I do agree with TS that we need a 'Being An Asshat Above And Beyond Your Constitutional Rights' type infraction. |
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#6
2007-06-01, 02:52 |
jebuonag 
Regular
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Re: What's an infraction?
I think the current definitions are fine.
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#7
2007-06-01, 02:58 |
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Moderator
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San Jose California
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Re: What's an infraction?
I don't know if this had to do with the dDizzle fiasco...
But, would multiple, previously deleted and/or moved threads be considered SPAM?
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#8
2007-06-01, 05:10 |
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Super Moderator
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Sebastopol CA
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Re: What's an infraction?
Jeff is there a way to put "grievance to the moderators/admin" as an infraction or something? Trolls will follow me at least around the boards ruining threads of my creation to get back at me, it's in the FAQ. It's a toothless tiger if they are warned to not do something but nothing to back it up with.
I like this idea in principle, but how would we define such a thing. I would think that that could be a little hard to pin down.
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#9
2007-06-01, 05:26 |
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Regular
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Springfield, Ohio
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Re: What's an infraction?
Well you've had problems with that kind of thing Meta. Flaming for example, people say things about you and your daughter and you've said you called it spam, have had to deal with it.. But acording to what Jeff says here its NOT spam.
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#10
2007-06-01, 05:42 |
Mr.Happy
Regular
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Re: What's an infraction?
I do agree with TS that we need a 'Being An Asshat Above And Beyond Your Constitutional Rights' type infraction.
It might be a good idea in principle, but as has been said it would be very hard to define precisely and it might lead to unfair infractions being given out. It'd also be the easiest one for mods with a grudge to abuse, if it came to that.
I don't think flaming or harassment should be infraction-worthy unless it's involving personal information or attacks (some of the things posted to do with Meta and his daugher really are worthy of an infraction, in my opinion). It might not be fun to deal with, but it's not actually against the rules. Just don't respond to it.
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#11
2007-06-01, 06:14 |
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Super Moderator
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Sebastopol CA
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Re: What's an infraction?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by sambob
Well you've had problems with that kind of thing Meta. Flaming for example, people say things about you and your daughter and you've said you called it spam, have had to deal with it.. But acording to what Jeff says here its NOT spam.
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So I see and he's the boss. :) |
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#12
2007-06-01, 06:24 |
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Regular
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Springfield, Ohio
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Re: What's an infraction?
So I see and he's the boss. :)
Well yes, but does anyone really think you should have to put up with people constantly saying "I want to fuck Meta's daughter" or other things like that?
Sure people should be able to say what they want, but people should also be able to enjoy themselves here without having to deal with people giving them shit all the time like that.
And I'm not saying Jeff isn't the boss, but talking to each other (including him), and discussing policy is what this forum is for isnt it?
And hell I mention the thing about your daughter because it makes ME very angry myself and bothers me quite a bit. As I'm sure it does other moderators and regulars all over totse.
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#13
2007-06-01, 06:39 |
Mr.Happy
Regular
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Re: What's an infraction?
Personally, I don't like the stuff said about Meta's daughter one bit (it makes me angry too), but I do actually think that comments on their own shouldn't be punished. Things like the doctored video/animations that were posted a while back, they're completely out of line and I'd insta-ban somebody if I found them posting it, but the site's always had a "you have the right to say anything" ethos and infracting people for insulting a moderator is contradictory to that. If it's repeated harassment, yeah, but not for a single personal comment (even if they are completely out of line). It's deeply unpleasant, but people on Totse have always had the right to be deeply unpleasant and I've seen things equally hurtful (and even worse) posted about regulars that would go unpunished.
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#14
2007-06-01, 13:44 |
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Re: What's an infraction?
You've all dirtied up a sticky that was created to include the different standards of different forums.
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#15
2007-06-01, 16:41 |
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Super Moderator
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Sebastopol CA
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Re: What's an infraction?
Let's see if this doesn't help get it back on track then:
What about people who post the same thing in multiple forums? This is still spam, isn't it?
A recent example is: http://www.totse.com/community/showthread.php?t=2011625
The guy is asking people to neg Rep him. That was bad enough [though certainly not enough for me to give an infraction - even before I read this thread], but posting it in several forums is infractionable, right?
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#16
2007-06-01, 17:47 |
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Re: What's an infraction?
I think there should be an infraction along the lines of
"Attempted spite and malice"
I know totse cares about it's freedom of speech and all, but does that mean that posters who want to ruin the boards and act like this is fucking bombshock can simply run riot with no one to stop them?
Instances such as trousersnake being stalked, or the disgusting things people have said about Metaphysists daughter, there should be atleast something that can be done about them.
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#17
2007-06-02, 14:30 |
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Re: What's an infraction?
I agree with yoyobek, there should be a certain point when it infringes upon a members real life.
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#18
2007-06-02, 14:34 |
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Re: What's an infraction?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by yoyobek
I think there should be an infraction along the lines of
"Attempted spite and malice"
I know totse cares about it's freedom of speech and all, but does that mean that posters who want to ruin the boards and act like this is fucking bombshock can simply run riot with no one to stop them?
Instances such as trousersnake being stalked, or the disgusting things people have said about Metaphysists daughter, there should be atleast something that can be done about them.
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If its truly serious, IE infringes seriously on someones real life, like someone stalking TS in RL, then that should be a ban. Anything less shouldn't be an infraction.
If someone repeatedly posts things about meta's daughter, then that could be considered spam, and hence deserve an infraction.
if its just once or twice, then lock it and be done with it. |
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#19
2007-06-02, 15:34 |
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Re: What's an infraction?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by XiPPiLLi
So what of page stretching and flooding? I've considered those spam.
What would we classify those as?
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I classify that as an "Attempt to hack, destroy, deface, or otherwise damage totse.com" |
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#20
2007-06-02, 15:37 |
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Re: What's an infraction?
What about people who post the same thing in multiple forums? This is still spam, isn't it?
Maybe. Posting the same message in multiple forums is SPAM if the message doesn't apply to those forums. If I had a question about, say, how to make my stereo really, REALLY loud, I might post it in both &R&R and T&T. Not SPAM.
However, if I just wanted to fuck someone's daughter, and I posted that in every forum, I'd say that was SPAM, because it doesn't have anything to do with the forum I'm posting in. But if I posted that I wanted to fuck someone's daughter in SG and S&A, it wouldn't be SPAM, I'd just be trolling. Trolling is annoying, but banning it doesn't help.
Encourage people to use the "ignore user" button for trolls. That's the best way to deal with them.
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#21
2007-06-02, 15:44 |
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Re: What's an infraction?
Can there not be a category for posting many times, all the posts of which are deliberate attempts to disrupt good conversation?
-deus-
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#22
2007-06-02, 15:52 |
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Re: What's an infraction?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by deus-redux
Can there not be a category for posting many times, all the posts of which are deliberate attempts to disrupt good conversation?
-deus-
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This would be good.
I know this is the interent and we have to expect a degree of idiocy, but totse is a real decent forum with real decent discussions, and it's really dissapointing when one idiot comes along and ruins everything.
But it's a thin line between stopping people ruining discussions and being a nazi moderator. It's difficult. |
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#23
2007-06-02, 15:54 |
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Re: What's an infraction?
Instances such as trousersnake being stalked, or the disgusting things people have said about Metaphysists daughter, there should be atleast something that can be done about them.
Ignoring them isn't "nothing". If someone ends up being ignored by a statistically significant number of people, they've effectively been "voted off the island". If they continue to post but no one is reading what they're saying, they've effectively been quarantined.
If you ban them, they just come back meaner and more determined to cause trouble, and then you have to ban them again. It's much better to let them waste their time posting messages no one reads. Eventually they sputter out because no one is reacting to their drivel.
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#24
2007-06-02, 16:23 |
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Re: What's an infraction?
But it's a thin line between stopping people ruining discussions and being a nazi moderator. It's difficult.
I think it's a case of exercising discretion. At the end of the day, none of us are perfect, be we can ensure we have a net positive effect.
-deus-
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#25
2007-06-02, 16:24 |
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Re: What's an infraction?
That is very true. Unfortunately, like kids in a playground, there are the ones who admire the bullies and strive to be like them, thus, act like them. Or worse.
But I guess ignoring them will have to do.
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#26
2007-06-02, 19:06 |
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Re: What's an infraction?
Jeff, what about users who repeatedly, knowingly, post new threads in the wrong forum, or otherwise violate posting conventions of that sort after having their threads closed/moved over and over again and being warned? For instance, certain users feel that having their threads alleging that the Bush administration, Israel, the Illuminati, or various groups other than Muslim extremists are behind 9/11 moved to Conspiracy! detracts from the credibility of the ideas they're trying to advance, so they repeatedly make such threads in P:LRC, knowing I will move them, because I have told them they don't belong there before, and forcing me to do so, to provide them the opportunity to register their objection to that policy. Is there no recourse to be resorted to in dealing with that sort of thing other than just locking, moving, or deleting those threads?
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#27
2007-06-03, 06:12 |
Mr.Happy
Regular
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Re: What's an infraction?
Maybe some kind of low-point (2 points or something) "deliberately breaking forum rules" infraction would be useful for the kind of problem Sephiroth's talking about? As long as the mod giving the infraction had to specify what rule was being broken to prevent it being abused as a catch-all infraction, it wouldn't cause many problems. Plus, it would be quite useful for things like posting links to illegal music downloads in AR&R or source sites in BLTC, etc., which the mods in those forums don't allow but which don't actually fall under any of the infraction categories. The warning box could be enabled for that infraction as a good way of making sure people know they're breaking the rules if they do it accidentally.
Thoughts?
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#28
2007-06-03, 08:30 |
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Moderator
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dodging the rain and tractors
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Re: What's an infraction?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mr.Happy
Maybe some kind of low-point (2 points or something) "deliberately breaking forum rules" infraction would be useful for the kind of problem Sephiroth's talking about? As long as the mod giving the infraction had to specify what rule was being broken to prevent it being abused as a catch-all infraction, it wouldn't cause many problems. Plus, it would be quite useful for things like posting links to illegal music downloads in AR&R or source sites in BLTC, etc., which the mods in those forums don't allow but which don't actually fall under any of the infraction categories. The warning box could be enabled for that infraction as a good way of making sure people know they're breaking the rules if they do it accidentally.
Thoughts?
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Uhm if its an illegal download as you say, then surely that falls fairly into the 'using totse to organise crime' infraction? |
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#29
2007-06-03, 09:46 |
Mr.Happy
Regular
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Re: What's an infraction?
Well, that would fall under that, but it was just an illustration for forum-specific rules. It could apply to the issue that was raised in S&A, that of members who've been in past relationships; you've stated that deliberately hurtful posts wouldn't be tolerated, but a thread with content like "it's so great to be out of my relationship, I'm free of [member] and I've been having casual sex and it's just so great!" wouldn't fall under any current infraction (it's not even another user's personal information) despite being against the rules you've laid down.
Again, it's not about the actual examples so much as the forum-specific rules mods have laid down. It gives mods a useful tool for keeping users in check in their own forums without having to bend the current infractions to suit, and if it was low-point with the warnings enabled it hopefully wouldn't get abused or over-used.
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#30
2007-06-07, 14:56 |
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Moderator
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Wasilla, Alaska
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Re: What's an infraction?
Another question on a specific--a member once posted a link to an anal sex site--no warning, the guy was just trying to be cute. This annoyed me greatly--for one thing, those sites can be virus-ridden, full of nasty cookies and stuff--also, I use a library comp, and porn sites are taboo, and can get one banned from using the comps.
I issued a stern warning. Should or could I have done anything more?
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#31
2007-06-07, 17:11 |
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Re: What's an infraction?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ArmsMerchant
Another question on a specific--a member once posted a link to an anal sex site--no warning, the guy was just trying to be cute. This annoyed me greatly--for one thing, those sites can be virus-ridden, full of nasty cookies and stuff--also, I use a library comp, and porn sites are taboo, and can get one banned from using the comps.
I issued a stern warning. Should or could I have done anything more?
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Spam? If it *could* have nasty spyware on it, it could be classed as a link to something harmfull. |
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#32
2007-06-27, 22:03 |
Entheogenic
Regular
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Re: What's an infraction?
Can someone explain what the points actually do? I thought you got a temp ban once you reached ten, but I just closed a thread in Humanities from someone with 12...
Entheogenic
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#33
2007-06-27, 22:52 |
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Regular
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Canberra Australia
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Re: What's an infraction?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Entheogenic
Can someone explain what the points actually do? I thought you got a temp ban once you reached ten, but I just closed a thread in Humanities from someone with 12...
Entheogenic
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Check the date of the infraction. It may have expired or someone may have reversed the infraction...if that's not it something's fucked up I'd say. |
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#34
2007-06-28, 11:03 |
Entheogenic
Regular
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Re: What's an infraction?
That was my first thought too, but no, he had 12 active points. Hmmm...
Entheogenic
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#35
2007-06-28, 17:48 |
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Super Moderator
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Sebastopol CA
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Re: What's an infraction?
I have this happen on a few occasions.
I recall one spammer got over 50 points yet no ban kicked in. I have no idea why.
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#36
2007-07-03, 00:57 |
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Re: What's an infraction?
I think there's a scheduled task that runs once a day that actually bans people with too many infractions. So someone could have 12 points and not be banned if they got the last 3 within the past 24 hours (since the task last ran).
However, I just checked and I don't see anything that specifically says that it does this, and it would be just as easy for vB to check total points at the time you give someone an infraction and see if they need to be banned.
I know that people do get banned. There are 127 people banned right now.
I'll look into this a little deeper and see if I find anything.
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#37
2007-07-03, 03:39 |
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Super Moderator
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Sebastopol CA
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Re: What's an infraction?
It's only happened 2 or 3 times.
Every other time as soon as someone reaches 10 or more, it bans them.
However, there are also some occasions - maybe 10% of the time - when I go to give an infraction, that there is no way to send the user a note as you normally can.
Since we're on the subject of infractions - and I don't think I've asked this before - I would like a bit of clarification on how the infraction system works, please.
The first time you get over 10 points, you get a 10 day ban. The second time you get 10 or more, it's 20, and so on, right?
Does it matter how many points they get as to how long the ban is? By that I mean, say someone spammed all the forums and was infracted in each forum. Would they get more than a 10 day ban if they got like 20 or 30 points all at once like that?
I know that that is an extreme example, but it will at least be useful for purposes of this question...
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#38
2007-07-06, 11:11 |
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Re: What's an infraction?
Does it matter how many points they get as to how long the ban is? By that I mean, say someone spammed all the forums and was infracted in each forum. Would they get more than a 10 day ban if they got like 20 or 30 points all at once like that?
Points expire over time. If someone has 10 non-expired points, they get a 10 day ban.
Yesterday I added a 1 month ban for anyone with 15 points and a 6 month ban for anyone with 20 or more points.
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#39
2007-07-06, 22:08 |
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Regular
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Canberra Australia
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Re: What's an infraction?
To Jeff, or anyone that knows.
A ban evader gets points under...multiple accounts?? Right?
There's nothing for evading a ban so that choice seems the logical choice.
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#40
2007-07-07, 04:33 |
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Super Moderator
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Sebastopol CA
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Re: What's an infraction?
That's what I do, yes.
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