Half post-partum depression, half me being fed up with the various bull shit that is thrown at me.. I'm fine, just tired.. Sorry if this seemed like the worst drama ever. At times I wish he'd not alert the press with HIS problems. I've no intentions of hurting my kids. I did take some pills, but it was only to escape reality for a bit, not kill myself.. Although, at times I wish I were allowed to..

Try to understand my frustration and depression.. I am a SINGLE parent where two parents reside. I have to take care of my children as well as my boyfriend. He lacks any sort of common sense and leaves me in the position to make sure everything is taken care of like they should be. He sleeps 15 hours a day (even more, recently), when I need help. In emergency situations, he refuses to help me if he is sleeping.. (I.E.: daughter was sick, I was extremely pregnant; he wouldn't get out of bed to help me buy her medicine.. oh yeah, it was 12 degrees F outside) My daughter is extremely demanding and is constantly getting herself in trouble. The new baby is awake until 5:30 or so, then my daughter gets up at 7.. if I'm lucky.

I make sure that our house is kept, because he doesn't know when it is a mess.. (like garbage on the floor isn't an obvious indication)

I'm extremely vulnerable right now and don't need any of his constant bull shit.. Like wondering if when he leaves for work, he is going to come back.. He tends to take detours to the Walmart parking lot to like charcoal in the car in a suicide attempt.. You know, because his life is shitty with my wiping his ass all the time.. Multiple suicide attempts from him have done nothing but shown me that he has no desire to have a life with me or his children..


My bitching could go on and on.. Really.. There are a million more reasons that I am depressed right now..

So sorry if I seem like an attention whore, but I'm so incredibly fed up.. drowning..

Sorry for the rant..

In before too many posts about this bullshit.

I don't think you two should get married. It seems to me that he is just totally not ready for the responsibility of a family...I mean look at the immature bullshit he posted in that other thread? I like HOZ, but I do think he's a big baby who's never going to be able to be an equal partner.

I mean, I get fed up with my husband sometimes, because he can be overbearing and he can also be a big baby. On the other hand, he takes good care of me and our daughter and I know he'll always be there for us. I never have to worry about money or him not helping me if our daughter is sick. In fact, just a few days ago he had to work all night and then he had to stay up with our daughter so I could go see my shrink for an "emergency session." Then after I got home he STILL didn't go to sleep until he knew for sure that everything was fine.

I think you should just bite the bullet and move back in with your parents. I'm serious...I know that you really don't want to live with them, but I think it's the best option for you and the kids. From what you've said, it sounds like you have a really good relationship with them and that they would be willing to help you. You could go back to school and get a good career to support you and your kids with.

I know you want to be with HOZ, but staying with him is just going to drag you down. He really needs to grow up and figure out his own life before he can contribute to yours.

Its your own fucking fault for having kids when you or the dad isnt ready.
I have no pity for you, being a parent takes alot of work and ALOT of responsibility which neither of you seem to have...
You should tell HOZ that he needs to stop crying out for attention like a little bitch (multiple FAILED suicide attempts) i mean come on, if he really wanted to kill himself he would blow his brains out with a 12 gauge or stand in front of a train instead of crying out for help by INTENTINALLY DOING FAILED SUICIDE ATTEMPTS!

HT, as so often Xiao manages to give the the sensible, logical, feminist approved answer and yet somehow manages to be totally wrong at the same time.Its probably a talent.

You need to marry him asap.

And learn to let him lead.

You aren't his mother you're his wife and the mother of his children.

And yes I know he is a total fuckwit at times.

^^^Jack is a sexist pig, I hope you remember that before listening to him!

HOZ can't even lead his own life, much less that of HT and his kids! And I think most feminists would be very insulted to see me included in their ranks.:P

I didn't know humans could marry invertebrates.

Only in Georgia, South Carolina, Mississippi, Alabama and West Virgina.

And I think most feminists would be very insulted to see me included in their ranks.:P

True, you are probably far too much 'house wife' (and a bloody good one by the sounds of it) for their tastes.

But you do tend to see marriage as an 'equal partnership'.

And that, IM-not so HO, is the number one reason why marriages fail.

HUsh Yo' Mouth chil'

da SOuth WILL rise agin y'hear?!

:P

shut the fuck up bitch and enjoy the fucknig cock

True, you are probably far too much 'house wife' (and a bloody good one by the sounds of it) for their tastes.

But you do tend to see marriage as an 'equal partnership'.

And that, IM-not so HO, is the number one reason why marriages fail.

In my experience most marraiges fail because of lack of communication and an unwillingness to compromise. I mean, my husband and I have an equal partnership. We do different jobs, but we respect each others opinions and we consult each other before making any major decisions. We know we can count on each other is what it all boils down to. Hardly there can't count on HOZ...She shouldn't compound the problem by marrying him.

Wha'? A man can 'lead' instinctively? Same as driving a car or anything else I guess.

Then schooling is a waste. He should just go out & instictively get a good job at an instinctive $50K+/yr....

In my experience most marraiges fail because of lack of communication and an unwillingness to compromise. Yes because people get married thinking it should be some kind of equal partnership. Thats the underlining cause. Lack of communication and the like are symptoms.

We know we can count on each other is what it all boils down to. Hardly there can't count on HOZ...She shouldn't compound the problem by marrying him.

NOW you're talking about marriage (as opposed to some half arsed New Age 'equal' partnership)

But you're setting the bar far too high.

He's a twat, you know, i know it, she knows it and HOZ knows it.

But..

If his child needed one of his kidneys?

Or

Would he put himself infront of his wife and kids if someone broke into their apartment and waved a gun around?

Thats the level of 'counting on' you have to apply to someone like HOZ.

As long as HT knows the answer to those questions is a definite yes then everything else is small shit. He'll get there in the end.

I think you both werent hugged enough as children.

Well why would she marry a guy she knows is a twat?

^^^Jack is a sexist pig, I hope you remember that before listening to him!

QFT.

Ketch is a nice enough guy, but at the end of the day, he's a man, and automatically a stupid asshole.



harly there, do you really want to spend the rest of your life with someone so useless and unhelpfull? Marriage wont suddenly make him into superman.


I like you both, but you really dont seem to do too well as a couple.



RUN AWAY! While you still can.

I think the only for sure way that he'll get it 'in the end' is a gay way.

There is no guarantee or implied warranty that anybody will 'get' anything.

I know, my father never got it, as far as I could tell. I never got over the fear of him coming home when I lived there. Am I the only one who's father was a silent & scary mystery? I'd say no.

Fucked up children of fucked up children of fucked up immigrants, might 'get' it? Maybe not.

QFT.

Ketch is a nice enough guy, but at the end of the day, he's a man, and automatically a stupid asshole.



harly there, do you really want to spend the rest of your life with someone so useless and unhelpfull? Marriage wont suddenly make him into superman.


I like you both, but you really dont seem to do too well as a couple.



RUN AWAY! While you still can.

'arsehole' please.

Don't pamper to the colonials.


And actually marriage will probably make him worse for a bit, tends to be the way.

And I'm pretty sure that I'll never get it. Thus the non-reproduction.

Now...where did I see that article about German parish records that showed a significant number of men apparently never had children because they never got it together? I'm kinda vague but I think it was way more than would have been gay.

Lots of men contribute not much more than sperm to the fathering. My own put a roof over my head but basically never, ever talked to me about anything at all. Well neither did my mother or my relatives.

Did they get it? I don't know...they never said... :p

Uhm maybe the same reason my wife chose to marry a violent criminal, serial alcoholic, sadist, serial one-night-stand merchant with no fucking common sense and a degree in financial mismanagement or why you chose to marry a man obsessed with sticking his unnaturally large penis into your bum and a tendency to childishness?

nb. 'twat' in brit means means "stupid but slightly endearing...sometimes".

You should have left him in that psych ward when you had the chance...

Dump the fucker. Don't let him ruin 4 lives instead of just his own. He's a shitty excuse for a human being, psychological problems or not.

YES he did...I told him everything and he still proposed.

HOWEVER I'm not like HOZ. I pull my own weight in my family...And my husband is in a different situation than HT. For one thing, he was 22 years old when we got married, he already had a career in the military and we didn't have any children to worry about at the time.

Uhm maybe the same reason my wife chose to marry a violent criminal, serial alcoholic, sadist, serial one-night-stand merchant with no fucking common sense and a degree in financial mismanagement or why you chose to marry a man obsessed with sticking his unnaturally large penis into your bum and a tendency to childishness?

nb. 'twat' in brit means means "stupid but slightly endearing...sometimes".
Well he never mentioned EAS before we were married.:P

And all men are childish IME.

Well he never mentioned EAS before we were married.:P

And all men are childish IME.

Strangely most men think that about women.

But anyway my point was that if we decided logically and sensibly who we wanted to marry or have kids with then humanity wouldn't have made it out of the seas let alone down from the trees.

HT obviously loves him and has had kids with him.

He's a waste of space maybe but them seperating won't make anyone happier, least of all the kiddies.

He's a waste of space maybe but them seperating won't make anyone happier, least of all the kiddies.

I disagree. It would make a great many people on totse happier not to have to read Zek's daily/weekly suicidal, depressed, bullshit threads. And that is a bad bad bad influence on 2 young children.

I disagree. It would make a great many people on totse happier not to have to read Zek's daily/weekly suicidal, depressed, bullshit threads. And that is a bad bad bad influence on 2 young children.

I, for one, always read both their threads with great interest and appreciate them.

Rum, sodomy & the lash for the both of them & half the rest of us in this thread too! :D

Ketch is a nice enough guy, but at the end of the day, he's a man, and automatically a stupid asshole.

ironic eh?

btw,

I do hope you're not nursing after taking pills???

You do sound tired, but I never thought you'd do such a thing and that HOZ was probably over reacting.

Find a way to get some rest.

I had stored some in the freezer for the occasion that I would drink a little alcohol with my friends. Hasn't happened yet, but there still milk in the freezer in case I can't feed him myself.

It's so tough with a new baby...You get so tired and you never really get enough sleep. If I were you I would just try to ignore him when he gets you down. You can't stop him from doing anything...And I think most of the annoying stuff he does is just a bid for attention. I would just ignore it...Or maybe go to a counselor together? I know it really helped my husband and I to go to a marraige counselor.

That's what you get for getting pregnant, dumbass.

Thank you all for your honesty. Honestly, it seems to me at times that I need a slap in the face. You're only seeing the bad though, if you could follow me around for one day and see what I do, I think you'd understand a bit more. I am selfish, this much is obvious.

I love my family though. And I am trying. I study daily to do well in college and am working toward a decent job. I'm there to scold my children, and there to love my wife. Not as often as I should be, but still, something is better than nothing.

http://www.through-the-maze.org.uk/symbols_x4/drama.gifhttp://www.avenuevine.com/movabletype/archives/BOMB-w.jpg

what i dont understand is why you had another child with him, from what you say he is pretty much worthless(i dont know him so im just going by what ive read).you have to do everything while he gets a free ride,you work,he sleeps,you clean,he sleeps,you take care of the kids,he sleeps or makes a pathetic half assed suicide attempt.you need help,its hard enough taking care of a toddler and a newborn alone,but then you also have to take care of the man-child you decided to procreate with,where have all the strong women gone?.my wife wouldnt put up with that kind of shit,she would let me know pretty fast that i can help or i can get the fuck out,marriage IS a partnership(sorry jack)its all about give and take and respect for one another,my wife knows what i will and will not put up with and i know her limits,we dont push each other to those limits,my wife works days,my work day dosent begin until noon,so i take care of the baby when i get home at night so she can sleep,i work more on the weekends so she does the majority of taking care of him then...nothing is left to just one person,same goes for housework and whatnot,she works a hard 8 to 10 hr day,what kind of prick would i be to not help her keep the place clean?but she also helps me out tons when my work keeps me out till sometimes 3 or 4 in the morning.we watch out for one another,we live for our son and each other........and Hardly There you need to find someone to make a good life with for you and your children,expecially for your children.......Zek grow up be a man and do whats right...stop whining about how hard things are or how you plan on getting better....its real simple just be a man and do what you know you are supposed to do...and for gods sake man take care of your kids,show them a better life than what you had,make them your priority. now that you are a father your list of priorities should start with your family,you brought them into this world,they didnt ask for any of the shit you put them through,show them you can be a daddy
sorry this was so long winded

http://www.eskimo.com/~areed/turniton4.jpg

How old are you? Why the fuck would you let some inbred knock you up? Not to be an asshole but it's your own fault for fuckin up this bad. Now taht you see the consequences hopefully you'll learn not to date inbreds next time or learn how to use birth control and get off the crack next time a whacko fondles your breasts cuz he aint stoppin there, hun.

EDIT: I actually feel more sorry for your children.

I dunno what to tell you, surrender your children to social services cuz they obviously won't benefit from having a coked up ho as a mom and some loser retardoe as a dad.

Now taht you see the consequences hopefully you'll learn not to date inbreds next time or learn how to use birth control and get off the crack next time a whacko fondles your breasts cuz he aint stoppin there, hun.
Lol there is no next time, their lives are fucked.

yeah, I figured that. I just didn't feel right saying "murder/suicide" since she has children.

How many dissin' these lovable freaks have parents who're also fucked up?

Go on: tell the truth.

not i, my parents have been married 39 years,i can count the times ive seen my parents fight with one hand,they never fought in front of the kids,they did without so that their children didnt have to,they worked hard to keep us clean clothed fed and protected,my dad knows what it was like to not have enough to eat..i never did because he made damn sure his kids didnt have to suffer like he did,my dad worked and went to school when i was little,he took a job that kept him away from home alot,but he did what he had to to take care of all of us....so i can honestly say i dont have fucked up parents

Is that any less reaon to get on their backs?

Is that any less reaon to get on their backs?

Seeing as he's Bi? I'll stay off his wacky back...you're welcome to climb aboard though?

Seeing as he's Bi? I'll stay off his wacky back...you're welcome to climb aboard though?

I'm still bitter neither HoZ or Hardly There responded to my rap.

not i, my parents have been married 39 years,i can count the times ive seen my parents fight with one hand,they never fought in front of the kids,they did without so that their children didnt have to,they worked hard to keep us clean clothed fed and protected,my dad knows what it was like to not have enough to eat..i never did because he made damn sure his kids didnt have to suffer like he did,my dad worked and went to school when i was little,he took a job that kept him away from home alot,but he did what he had to to take care of all of us....so i can honestly say i dont have fucked up parents

Funny, I try hard not to fight in front of the kids, I wait until they're out of sight to bring up issues I'm having..

I needed maternity clothes badly, but my daughter needed new snow boots more..

I bathe my children every night after I've ensured they had an adequate amount of food to eat; even if it wasn't they're favorite food..

When we have that long stretch to payday, I skip meals so that my daughter can have as much as she wants..

I tell my kids that I love them and hug them and kiss them multiple times throughout the day.. I'm not hateful toward my children, I don't abuse them, I discipline them as needed..

For those of you who think I am a bad mother, tell me what the hell I'm doing wrong?

I'm a fucked up parent? I have many problems, but I'm not fucked up.. If any of you were in my position, I'd love to see you try to not have a break down..

If this is what we are basing an ideal parent on, than I am more than capable..

When we have that long stretch to payday, I skip meals so that my daughter can have as much as she wants..

I tell my kids that I love them and hug them and kiss them multiple times throughout the day.. I'm not hateful toward my children, I don't abuse them, I discipline them as needed..


This Boys and Girls, is what we in the trade call 'a parent'.

...just doing what it takes,whatever it takes, and making it through the day.

This Boys and Girls, is what we in the trade call 'a parent'.

...just doing what it takes,whatever it takes, and making it through the day.

Oh heerlijk, where do I sign up?:/

...

Good luck. I hope things pick up for you.

This thread reminds me of just how much I hate Zek.

Oh heerlijk, where do I sign up?:/

You sign up everytime you have vaginal intercourse. Thats the point i keep on trying to get across in the contraception threads.

I'm still bitter neither HoZ or Hardly There responded to my rap.

What the hell is "HoZ"?

What the hell is "HoZ"?

Hand Of Zek.

You sign up everytime you have vaginal intercourse. Thats the point i keep on trying to get across in the contraception threads.

Well thanks for reminding me why I don't have sex with just any old gal (though these days I'm not having much sex at all)

My point was that I rarely ever hear anything nice about parenthood and I think many people in my generation are the same. All I hear are folk moaning about a lack of sleep or money.

not i, my parents have been married 39 years,i can count the times ive seen my parents fight with one hand,they never fought in front of the kids,they did without so that their children didnt have to,they worked hard to keep us clean clothed fed and protected,my dad knows what it was like to not have enough to eat..i never did because he made damn sure his kids didnt have to suffer like he did,my dad worked and went to school when i was little,he took a job that kept him away from home alot,but he did what he had to to take care of all of us....so i can honestly say i dont have fucked up parents

Funny. Our kids have never really seen us fight. We keep our kids in clean clothes. Our kids have enough to eat, and get meals regularly. We're both in school and I'm working enough to keep us from starving to death. I don't make a lot, but I do make sure that our kids are well taken care of.

And most importantly, I kiss my kids goodnight, read to them and play with them. I can understand why my wife gets upset at me and makes these rants, because no matter how hard either of us try, it will never be enough and she generally does most of the parenting (I'll admit that much).

Keep in mind though that this was a rant written in a bout of rage when I was being an ass and refused to get out of bed. I'm not perfect, and I doubt any of you are either. I'm sorry that I'm not the absolute best father in the world, but I'm trying, yo. Keeping a job and going to school isn't really a lot, but it's all that I can manage.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Or at least out of the 2, he's the clear loser.



People are growing tired of the sob stories zek, need to think of another way to attract attention to yourself.

Funny. Our kids have never really seen us fight. We keep our kids in clean clothes. Our kids have enough to eat, and get meals regularly. We're both in school and I'm working enough to keep us from starving to death. I don't make a lot, but I do make sure that our kids are well taken care of.

And most importantly, I kiss my kids goodnight, read to them and play with them. I can understand why my wife gets upset at me and makes these rants, because no matter how hard either of us try, it will never be enough and she generally does most of the parenting (I'll admit that much).

Keep in mind though that this was a rant written in a bout of rage when I was being an ass and refused to get out of bed. I'm not perfect, and I doubt any of you are either. I'm sorry that I'm not the absolute best father in the world, but I'm trying, yo. Keeping a job and going to school isn't really a lot, but it's all that I can manage.

Its posts like these (and the other one from HT this morning) that give me some hope for the youth of today.

People, the only BAD parents are the ones who sexually/physically/emotionally abuse their kids or neglect them criminally (ie leave them to starve in a pile of shit).

All other parents are just that, parents. Good or not so good. All have their plus and negative sides. Very few of us would have the passed the 'Would you make a good parent' exam that some of you seem to think should be a prerequisite to procreation.

But in an age where perhaps having to miss the odd disco or a couple of months of schooling seems to be considered a valid reason to abort then couples like HT/HOZ are heros.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Or at least out of the 2, he's the clear loser.



People are growing tired of the sob stories zek, need to think of another way to attract attention to yourself.

I'm sure he'll think of something..

He always does..

I'm sure he'll think of something..

He always does..

At the risk of being hurtful and over personal you need to realise you are NOT his mother.

Does he need one? Probably but you ain't it.

Neither are you his 'best mate','equal partner' nor 'his girlfriend'.

You're his wife , with or without the bit of paper, and mother to his children (which btw it sounds like you do really well)

Loving a total fuckup like HOZ isn't easy, and it is very tempting to start trying to be his keeper/mother. But be clear that that isn't helping the situation.

You want him to be more of a husband then you need to be more of a wife.

Sounds horribly unfair I know but thats the stone cold truth and the reality of how these things work. You set the pace and the thermometer in your house not him.

At the risk of being hurtful and over personal you need to realise you are NOT his mother.

Does he need one? Probably but you ain't it.

Neither are you his 'best mate','equal partner' nor 'his girlfriend'.

You're his wife , with or without the bit of paper, and mother to his children (which btw it sounds like you do really well)

Loving a total fuckup like HOZ isn't easy, and it is very tempting to start trying to be his keeper/mother. But be clear that that isn't helping the situation.

You want him to be more of a husband then you need to be more of a wife.

Sounds horribly unfair I know but thats the stone cold truth and the reality of how these things work. You set the pace and the thermometer in your house not him.

And what should my job as his 'wife' entail?

And what should my job as his 'wife' entail?

Please OVERLOOK the fact I'm quoting from the bible. I don't mean this in any kind of religous way. Its simply still one of the best descriptions I've ever found.

10 [c] A wife of noble character who can find?
She is worth far more than rubies.

11 Her husband has full confidence in her
and lacks nothing of value.

12 She brings him good, not harm,
all the days of her life.

13 She selects wool and flax
and works with eager hands.

14 She is like the merchant ships,
bringing her food from afar.

15 She gets up while it is still dark;
she provides food for her family
and portions for her servant girls.

16 She considers a field and buys it;
out of her earnings she plants a vineyard.

17 She sets about her work vigorously;
her arms are strong for her tasks.

18 She sees that her trading is profitable,
and her lamp does not go out at night.

19 In her hand she holds the distaff
and grasps the spindle with her fingers.

20 She opens her arms to the poor
and extends her hands to the needy.

21 When it snows, she has no fear for her household;
for all of them are clothed in scarlet.

22 She makes coverings for her bed;
she is clothed in fine linen and purple.

23 Her husband is respected at the city gate,
where he takes his seat among the elders of the land.

24 She makes linen garments and sells them,
and supplies the merchants with sashes.

25 She is clothed with strength and dignity;
she can laugh at the days to come.

26 She speaks with wisdom,
and faithful instruction is on her tongue.

27 She watches over the affairs of her household
and does not eat the bread of idleness.

28 Her children arise and call her blessed;
her husband also, and he praises her:

29 "Many women do noble things,
but you surpass them all."

30 Charm is deceptive, and beauty is fleeting;
but a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised.

31 Give her the reward she has earned,
and let her works bring her praise at the city gate.

Please OVERLOOK the fact I'm quoting from the bible. I don't mean this in any kind of religous way. Its simply still one of the best descriptions I've ever found.

Believe it or not, I always serve his plate of food for him at dinner time.. And I do it before I serve anyone else.. My mother, a God-fearing woman, always taught me the importance of taking care of the man in my life.. I always considered her to be sexist and old-fashioned.. But I still serve my husband the way she told me to.. It's because I love him that I am happy to do it..

But all those duties sound awfully mother-like to me..

Aside from my traditional practices, I still believe that my husband should appreciate me.. I believe that he should want to help me out, not because it is his job, but because he loves me.. I believe that he should show me the same love I show him.. Not because he has to, but because he wants to..

It hurts to feel under-appreciated..

Jack, how can you look at all those 'duties' of a wife you posted and still think a wife who carries all of those out isn't equal to a husband? I just can't see how you think a marriage isn't an equal partnership.

You are perhaps confusing an 'equal partnership' (in the modern femnazi sense) and a 'partnership of equals' which is marriage.

You are perhaps confusing an 'equal partnership' (in the modern femnazi sense) and a 'partnership of equals' which is marriage.

My parents turned to the Bible as the only true guide in their lives.. As much as they lived by the book and played their own roles, my daddy never hesitated to do the laundry every Saturday.. He was always ready with a bottle of milk and diaper for the baby at 3am on his work nights, just so my mother could sleep unperturbed.. He made sure that my mother new how much she was loved and appreciated.. He always made sure to teach us, my brother especially, that the woman of a household has the most difficult job in the world.. He wanted to put in just as much of an effort as he knew she did.. because he loves her..

At the risk of being hurtful and over personal you need to realise you are NOT his mother.

Does he need one? Probably but you ain't it.

Neither are you his 'best mate','equal partner' nor 'his girlfriend'.

You're his wife , with or without the bit of paper, and mother to his children (which btw it sounds like you do really well)

Loving a total fuckup like HOZ isn't easy, and it is very tempting to start trying to be his keeper/mother. But be clear that that isn't helping the situation.

You want him to be more of a husband then you need to be more of a wife.

Sounds horribly unfair I know but thats the stone cold truth and the reality of how these things work. You set the pace and the thermometer in your house not him.



Have you ever considered that they MAY go against the morals of some people? That JUST MAYBE your beliefs are out-dated and deminishing? You make it sound as though any women that doesn't spoon feed her husband is a failure at being a wife. Does that mean your wife is a failure? If I recall its YOU who cooks the meals in the house - isn't that what you would consider the task of a woman? To cook her man a meal?

Have you ever considered that they MAY go against the morals of some people? That JUST MAYBE your beliefs are out-dated and deminishing? You make it sound as though any women that doesn't spoon feed her husband is a failure at being a wife. Does that mean your wife is a failure? If I recall its YOU who cooks the meals in the house - isn't that what you would consider the task of a woman? To cook her man a meal?

Cooking a woman's task?

Dunno, any man who lets a woman into the kitchen for anything beyond making him a apres-bonk sammich , can expect to find his good knives blunted and the pans scratched.

:P

Ok in all seriousness, yes my views are outdated and diminishing, thats the point. The concept of marriage seems to be outdated (judging by the divorce rates) and the whole idea of marriage is supposed to be diminishing..ie a giving up of oneself!

To quote the bible yet again " there is neither husband or wife, they become one'

On the personal front, I cook because my wife (a trained chef btw) doesn't feel capable at the moment. I do it because 1.someone has to and 2. because its part of my 'duty' to assist her where I can. I do it because i want to and because i love her. Same way I do the the cleaning, shopping etc.

HT isn't wrong to want the same from her HOZ, he just isn't there yet.

My parents turned to the Bible as the only true guide in their lives.. As much as they lived by the book and played their own roles, my daddy never hesitated to do the laundry every Saturday.. He was always ready with a bottle of milk and diaper for the baby at 3am on his work nights, just so my mother could sleep unperturbed.. He made sure that my mother new how much she was loved and appreciated.. He always made sure to teach us, my brother especially, that the woman of a household has the most difficult job in the world.. He wanted to put in just as much of an effort as he knew she did.. because he loves her..

With your Dad 100% there. But obviously HOZ isn't ..yet. I basically raised 3 kids on my own. Don't confuse his lack of support for lack of affection or even appreication.

Cooking a woman's task?

Dunno, any man who lets a woman into the kitchen for anything beyond making him a apres-bonk sammich , can expect to find his good knives blunted and the pans scratched.

:P

Ok in all seriousness, yes my views are outdated and diminishing, thats the point. The concept of marriage seems to be outdated (judging by the divorce rates) and the whole idea of marriage is supposed to be diminishing..ie a giving up of oneself!

To quote the bible yet again " there is neither husband or wife, they become one'

On the personal front, I cook because my wife (a trained chef btw) doesn't feel capable at the moment. I do it because 1.someone has to and 2. because its part of my 'duty' to assist her where I can. I do it because i want to and because i love her. Same way I do the the cleaning, shopping etc.

HT isn't wrong to want the same from her HOZ, he just isn't there yet.

I just don't get you, I'm sorry if this is going too far but you say you love your wife, yet your behaviour seems contrary. You wonder why marriages don't last these days.
You should see what the bible says about other women.
How can you pass judgement so easily onto them?


EDIT: I won't blame you if you edit this.

edit* from jackketch, no you're aren't going too far and your question is valid but in light of recent events etc I'm a little more paranoid than i used to be, ok?

When have I ever said what I do is ok??!!!!

There's that saying, practise what you preach. Obviously something is wrong in what you're preaching?

Kate, not sure why you deleted your past post but no I don't hold the office you suggest (partly for that very reason).

I hit the delete instead of the save button. We should all be glad my typing is readable :)

I hit the delete instead of the save button. We should all be glad my typing is readable :)

LOL lucky you. You realize I actually spend longer with spell-check than I do typing my replies?

LOL lucky you. You realize I actually spend longer with spell-check than I do typing my replies?

I know, you're spell checking with American english too.

Haha, I didn't know I was popular enough to be hated.

Part of my problem is attention-whoring, and I really need a break from totse to get with my studies. You'll be seeing less and less of me as the days go by.

<3 to all y'all, from the bottom of my wrist.

See you say that HOZ just isn't there yet...But who's to say that he'll ever get there! I know he's young, but I was really young too when I got married...Younger than him! And I didn't have any idea how to cook or clean (My mom has a maid) or pretty much how to do any domestic task. And back then, we hardly had enough money to live. This was especially hard for me to get used to, because my parents are rich. We refused to go into debt, so we just had to do without...Everything. We didn't even have a car! In fact, we never got a car until we had been married for almost a year. We used our tax return to buy one, but before that we had to walk or take the bus.

My point in all this is that Zek can and should do better. I suffer from mental illness just like him, but I can't let myself use it as an excuse. My daughter is severely lactose intolerant AND she's allergic to SOY. Ever since she was about 18 months old I have to get up every morning and make her almond milk. This is a process that takes about an hour each day. If I don't do it, though, she won't get milk, so even when I'm depressed or tired...It doesn't really matter, because she's my responsibility.

I'm not trying to say that I'm so great or anything...I mean BELIEVE me I have my faults. What I am trying to say is that you either have the certain something that makes you motivated or you don't. Zek might improve over time, but I seriously doubt he will ever "get there."

Sorry, Zek.<3

Holy shit she was taking drugs to "escape reality", the reality of her having kids and a shitbox husband. What an AWESOME parent.

I know, you're spell checking with American english too.
OED says realize.

There weren't children around to parent at the time.. 9pm is bedtime in my house.. How does me taking some pills make me a horrible parent? I'm sure that the majority of parents out there are guilty of taking some drug to wind down after the kiddies went to bed.. be it alcohol, tobacco, pills, weed, etc..

There weren't children around to parent at the time.. 9pm is bedtime in my house.. How does me taking some pills make me a horrible parent? I'm sure that the majority of parents out there are guilty of taking some drug to wind down after the kiddies went to bed.. be it alcohol, tobacco, pills, weed, etc..

Probably the majority, truth be known.

Have you "gotten there"? Do you see me as a lost cause?

Dood, I'm really not trying to be mean here. It's just that once you decide to become a parent, your feelings and problems go way, WAY down to the bottom of the list of "things that matter." I understand that you and HT are very young, but so was I and so was jackketch. I was 20 when my daughter was born and I'm pretty sure jackketch was 20 when his oldest son was born. After my daughter was born I suffered SEVERE health problems, because my body was so messed up from giving birth. I was in pretty much constant pain and I suffered from anemia that was so bad my husband had to take me to the hospital 3 times in one year because of it. I finally had to have about half of my uterus removed because it had been damaged so bad by childbirth. The surgeon who removed it told me that it was so debilitated it had essentially "turned to jelly."

During those 5 years of ill health and depression I still got up every day and cleaned the house, cooked, and took care of my daughter. It wasn't easy...I mean I had to take a lot of medication for the pain and then of course there was the despair I felt when the doctor told me I could never have another child.

You just have to force yourself to get up and do the things that need to be done. Doing the bare minimum isn't good enough when you have kids. And you have to remember that HT just had a baby and that she really needs your help right now.

Have you "gotten there"? Do you see me as a lost cause?

What Xiao says above me is of course right but to be truthful I doubt any of us parents ever 'get there' totally. We're all just making through the day doing the best we know how or can for our kids.

Anyone who attempted suicide as a cry for attention, especially with a pregnant/nursing significant other, I would consider a lost cause.

Dood, I'm really not trying to be mean here. It's just that once you decide to become a parent, your feelings and problems go way, WAY down to the bottom of the list of "things that matter." I understand that you and HT are very young, but so was I and so was jackketch. I was 20 when my daughter was born and I'm pretty sure jackketch was 20 when his oldest son was born. After my daughter was born I suffered SEVERE health problems, because my body was so messed up from giving birth. I was in pretty much constant pain and I suffered from anemia that was so bad my husband had to take me to the hospital 3 times in one year because of it. I finally had to have about half of my uterus removed because it had been damaged so bad by childbirth. The surgeon who removed it told me that it was so debilitated it had essentially "turned to jelly."

During those 5 years of ill health and depression I still got up every day and cleaned the house, cooked, and took care of my daughter. It wasn't easy...I mean I had to take a lot of medication for the pain and then of course there was the despair I felt when the doctor told me I could never have another child.

You just have to force yourself to get up and do t, he things that need to be done. Doing the bare minimum isn't good enough when you have kids. And you have to remember that HT just had a baby and that she really needs your help right now.

I know you're not trying to flame me, and are just giving your opinion on the matter. I also know that I don't do enough, but if you knew my background and life growing up you'd know WHY I am the way I am. Not trying to make excuses, I know I have to do better now that I have two kids to look after, but I'm not entirely useless. Right now for example I'm watching my daughter (she's sitting next to me watching The Little Mermaid) while HT is taking a much-needed nap. I also feel sick and might end up throwing up pretty soon.

I don't do much cleaning, but with enough time and patience from my wife I think I can manage to help her out enough to give her SOME rest in the future. She and everyone else has seemed to have given up on me. We're in love though, and I put up with her faults (which aren't nearly as bad as mine) when they arise. We're both on tons of medication and have very similar (though mine are much worse, in that I'm much lazier and useless) problems. She loves me despite my faults, and I'm hoping against hope that I get better. I'm actively trying to do better in school so we can have a better life. I'm also working with a therapist to get over my selfish acts and help with becoming a better husband and father.

It would break my heart for my family to leave me, though I can see why they would. I'm just hoping that someday I can make a good (or at least not terrible like I am now) husband and father.

I'm motivated now to clean the living room.

I'm motivated now to clean the living room.

Make sure you pick that cigarette butt up off your floor.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j81/thabee420/lolwtfenlarged.jpg

You're a good guy, zek. I'm sorry if I seem like I'm being really judgemental...I just have really high expectations because of MY childhood.:P My mom and dad have always thought I was this huge loser and I've spent my life trying to prove them wrong. It's ironic, because I haven't seen them in 5 years, so they have no idea about my life at all.:P I guess because of my own struggles, I have no tolerance for the shortcomings of others.

All you can do is try your best to get better. I only told HT to go back to her family, because she seemed very unhappy and like she's given up. She was probably just mad, though.

You really should consider joining the air force. I know the military sucks, but it could really solve a lot of your problems...And you would only have to enlist for 4 years. Maybe HT would feel less stressed out if you had a decent job and a nice place to live and a guaranteed paycheck? I know my husband was totally irresponsible before he joined the air force, but now he's a major and he just got assigned to a new position where he's basically a supervisor and he doesn't have to fly anymore. He started out as an airman basic, though, which is the lowest rank you can have. He disagrees with the military in principle too, BTW...He just stays in for the good of our family.

Oh and my husband NEVER cleans...NEVER...Except sometimes he'll do the after dinner dishes, but that's it. He has also never cooked once (literally) since we got married over 9 years ago. So you see, you're not alone in that.:P

It's not my place to post here. It is simply not my place to get involved; after all, I'm just a kid. What do I know about marriage? About relationships that have to maneuver around children? About being with someone for the rest of your life? Little, if anything. But after reading three pages of posts on the topic, I cannot help but express my thoughts.. the entire situation is too compelling not too.

First of all, I don't think the two of your should be taking advice or bantering on about each other on TOTSE. Even though S&A is, for the most part, populated with denizens a degree above the rest , this is still a message board full of adolescents and an astounding number of degenerates. To ask for advice about relationships on a forum comprised of human beings so utterly fucked up, so utterly awkward, is akin to asking salvation from the Devil; you'll get something, but do you think what you get provides you with an iota of value? If you have marriage problems, if you have post-partum depression, if you have suicide attempts, if you've been locked in a psych ward, if you sleep fifteen hours a day, go find a professional. And as for the plethora of excuses you could provide as to why you don't both see professionals, all I can say is that they are only so much bullshit. Jack and Co. are always reminding us that "TOTSE isn't a doctor; if you need help with spots on your dickie, go see a doctor. Don't post here." Your situation is the same thing. If your relationship is fucked up to the degree that your's is, don't find refuge in the internet. We all know that it most certainly is not "Serious Fucking Business".

And what do I think about marriage? As I've mentioned, I don't know much. I'm only 17 years old, only been dating for four years, only been with three different girls, only had sex a few dozen times. But in those four years I've watched over four marriages in my family crumble, and three beautiful ones spring up in their place. It has given me some idea of what to expect. Keep in mind that my opinion is my own, and as such is no more valuable than anyone else's. So lacking in value that I refuse to comment on or compare it to anyone else's: not kate's, not jack's, not HoZ's, not Docta?'s, not OC's, and not even yoyobek's (insufferable as she can be). And it is such:

In order to have children with someone, little is required. As mentioned, every time you engage in vaginal intercourse, you run the risk of pregnancy. And there are many fathers out there that skip town, that flee from their responsibilities, that leave their children so utterly abandoned that they don't even know what their father looks like. To see that Zek, selfish and attention-seeking and manic as he is, has remained not only with the children but with you, HT, brings me much hope for both your relationship and your children. The most fundamental component of marriage is love, followed immediately by honesty and then forgiveness. If Zek loves you, if he does his best, if he is serious about being a father to your children and a husband to you, it is entirely possible that he requires only time to mature and fulfill those roles. I'm not sure of your respective ages, but if Zek is still going to school, I assume that you are both relatively young. If so, then both of you (and everyone else who has commented on this rant) need to recognize the immaturity inherent in youth. My parents married young, had me young, and divorced; not because they were incapable of taking care of me (they weren't) and not because they were incapable of being selfless (this they were) but because they no longer loved each other. Yes, their immaturity put a strain on their relationship, but it was a risk that they, and all other young couples, run in order to be together. If the love had been there, there would have still be fights. There would have still be arguments and selfish actions and my mother would have continued to threaten suicide (because in honesty, if you flip HT and Zek's roles, they become my parents), but they would have still been together and grown up and been happy! And if you love each other today, this moment, and if you can accept that both of you are imperfect and selfish, and that both of you NEED to go see someone other than TOTSE for your marriage/depression/suicide issues, then you should definitely stay together for both the sake of your love and the sake of your children's lives.

I don't know either of you. I don't have a preference. I'm not sexist, so I don't think either Zek or HT is inherently more right than the other. I don't think either of you (being around the same age) is particularly more mature than the other. I think you both need to shut the hell up about it here and deal with it mano a mano, both with each other and with a shrink. Zek, you need to be told to grow up. HT, you need to accept Zek's need to grow up. HT, you need to appreciate what Zek does do for the children. Zek, you need to go above and beyond to do more for the children. Both of you need to understand that at whatever age you are, you're both fucking stupid. We're all fucking stupid.. wisdom is what you get after you've spent the majority of your life doing stupid shit because you're fucking stupid.

People who love each other MUST stay together. Marriage, at least to me, is neither about a 'partnership of equals' or an 'equal partnership'. It's about the daily compromise you have to partake in, a compromise comprised of putting yourself and your needs below those of your family. Human beings are meant to mate; society has turned mating into marriage, which, IMHO, is a beautiful thing. But it's not natural to spend every moment with someone, not natural to sacrifice yourself for someone daily. Being young only intensifies the difficulty in accomplishing this.

To truncate: shut up about your marriage (or strange lack thereof) on TOTSE, go see a shrink, understand that you're both young and therefore especially stupid, understand that you have to put your partner first, and, most importantly, don't give up. I do not know you, either of you, aside from a few enflamed opinions attached to inventive misnomers. But I love people, and I know what it is like growing up in a broken home, a home where the parents lost the love and split. It's the most terrible thing you can ever do to your children. If you love them, and if you love each other, you have an eternal responsibility to work things out and grow up.

Take my advice, laugh at it, blow it off. Just don't say that you weren't told. Because in the end, if you split and your life splinters, your children grow up maladjusted, and one or both of you commit suicide, you will realize what was and wasn't right. And you will be held responsible in the Hereafter.

Opus, I disagee with a lot of what you've said but I do appreciate the effort and thought you put into your answer. THAT is real S&A.

Thank you Opus, your advice has not been wasted on deaf ears.

We are both seeing a psychologist and a psychiatrist, and often go in together to work on our relationship issues.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I'll put some effort into not brining our marital drama onto totse. And we are young, I'm 19 and she is 18. By school, I mean college.

Jack, that's the best compliment anyone has bequeathed upon me in a long time. I so desperately want people to respect my opinion, and only recently have I realized that in order to attain that, I must be willing to put in that thought in effort-- in essence, that I must be willing to give them a reason to respect my opinion first. Even greater is the way I detest the stigma and negative connotation attached to my age. For, if you didn't know your own age, how old would you be? This is what should really matter.

I thank you most humbly, and tell you that I am touched.

To Zek, thank you for your willingness to appreciate my words. And it's not that I don't want you 'marital drama' here on TOTSE, it is just that I think that it doesn't belong here. It belongs elsewhere.

I figured that school meant college, although I did think you were both in your early 20s. This only solidifies my point; you are young. Just do your best. It's never going to be easy at this age.

I think you're a decent guy, Zek. Again, I don't know you at all. But your posts seem to indicate a willingness to improve and deal with your own issues that I respect.

Dood, I don't mind when you post about your relationship on here.

When I was 18, my husband bought me a blueberry pie and a book of F. Scott Fitzgerald short stories for my birthday.:P

Actually, he is 19 and I am 18.. We do deal with our problems together and with a psychologist.. I'm definitely not asking for advice (although, I am grateful for the opinions and serious advice given) because I KNOW that the majority of this forum is 14 years old.. If any thing, it is a display of a relationship that people can learn from.. There has been a lot of useful words that apply to any relationship.. It may or may not prove helpful to us, but it may be helpful to someone else.. I still have every intention of marrying him in June.. I just crave a change.. Not the idea of change, but a genuine change..

Thank you for your opinions.. I appreciate your advice..

Well, there's always hope.

This thread makes me sad.

Hardly There sounds like an awesome person, and Zek sounds okay too.

But.. should 2 people that seem so unhappy and seem to dislike each other so much be together?
Should they be allowed to breed?


I'm concerned as to how your kids are going to grow up if they see you fighting and arguing. Even if you do your best as I'm sure you do to not fight when they're around, kids can be pretty smart and can feel when the atmosphere they're in is stressfull and unpleasant.



Why oh why could you guys not have waited till you'd finished with school before breeding?

I know that you'll be good parents...just perhaps not right now..



It's something I learnt the hard way.No matter how much you love someone and how long you've been together, if you're unhappy and the arguing takes up more time than the happy times, then it's time to end it and escape.







This thread is another reason I'm Pro-Choice.

This thread is another reason I'm Pro-Choice.

Strangely enough it for me it has the opposite effect and confirms my anti-abortion stance.

You only have to look at the photos of their kids to see that all the femnazi nonsense about not being able to finish school/offer the kid a good life etc is just that, nonsensical generalisation.

Despite everything they have well fed, cared for kids who (judging by what HT/HOZ have said) are loved and cared for. And despite both the parents being , lets say , 'challenged' they are managing to work, bring in money and get an education.

Strangely enough it for me it has the opposite effect and confirms my anti-abortion stance.

You only have to look at the photos of their kids to see that all the femnazi nonsense about not being able to finish school/offer the kid a good life etc is just that, nonsensical generalisation.




Stop.

Why is that femnazi nonsense? I'm pretty sure there are pro-choice males around as well thanks. I don't think that idea is gender based at all.

Stop.

Why is that femnazi nonsense? I'm pretty sure there are pro-choice males around as well thanks. I don't think that idea is gender based at all.

I'm not going to let this thread develop into an abortion rant for either side but in answer to your point the history of the legalisation of abortion is (most places) in the majority a female issue...the whole 'mein Bauch gehoert mir/my tummy belongs to me' thing. Sure some men supported them but on the whole women won this 'right' for themselves using ,amongst many others, the spurious arguments I list.

Lol jack is trolling good.

I know that it seems like I absolutely hate him, and when I'm irate I scream that I do hate him, but I still love
him immensely.. We always clear a spot, at the end of the day when the kids are asleep, to just be with each other..

I tolerate everything in my life fairly well.. I really hate conflict and fighting.. I've always been a bit of a doormat.. I just want to keep everyone happy.. But every so often, I explode and every little thing that is bothering me, even a little, is vented through my mouth..

I don't dislike him or hate him.. I just dislike and hate the things he does.. or doesn't do.

He's promised me that he will make a bigger effort and that there will be a change.. I just hope that he means it..

I'm sorry if this didn't make much sense, I'm fairly hung over.. (first time I've been able to hang out with my friends in like 2 years:p)

(first time I've been able to hang out with my friends in like 2 years:p)

Time and time again i see young mothers/couples make this same mistake.

You need to have an evening off every month (if not every two weeks) without fail.

I know how hard that is and how difficult to organise but it's important to sometimes just be 19 again either together or on your own.

One of the few useful presents my mother-in-law used to give us was to say she'd look after the babies for a day/night/weekend and slip us a 100DM so the wife and i could go get a meal/cinema/drunk/fuck like bunnies IN PEACE!

But every so often, I explode and every little thing that is bothering me, even a little, is vented through my mouth..

That's a good thing though. If you didn't you truely would go mad. It can be easier to release that anger/confusion/i don't know how you feel as it comes, rather than all at once in what often feels like a brash list of irrationalities. I find when I let a relationship get to that point by the time I try and make my feelings clear they are so entangled in each other it is hard to see anything "definite" amongst the noise that ensues. It's always cathartic, but the more ongoing that process is, the smoother the ride. I guess.

Just my 2c, I'm terrible for ignoring shit until I go off on one and regret it.

Jack you never answered my questions properly!

your rant fucking sucks


/thread

your mom sucks at fucking.

your mom sucks at fucking.

cool you fuck fat 50 year olds good for you

cool you fuck fat 50 year olds good for you

it pays the bills...

it pays the bills...

Wow...

cool you fuck fat 50 year olds good for you

Wow what a comeback.

I'm bet you're proud of that!

im really sorry your grandfather is still molesting you,but please take out your frustrations elsewhere