Giving out infractions in a forum you dont moderate.
What do you think of this, moderators of totse?

Would you be pissed off if someone started 'intefering' with your forum? Or if some little shit kept posting the same old spam over and over again, would you be thankfull for the rate at which he would be racking up infractions?


Share your oppinions please, and if there is a proper serious rule about this then do tell!

Edit: I've had a few responses privately from people I'm in Email contact with, thanks for them. :)Also, I know Jackketch has made a sticky regarding this on SA.
I'm not disregarding any your oppinions, I just want to know what the more general totse oppinion of this topic is.

If its goatse, etc. Its no worries.

Otherwise its not your business.

Anybody unfamiliar with HB should probably avoid handing out any infractions within the forum.

The only reason I can see to give out infractions in another forum is if a user needs a temp-ban.

I've only handed out a few infractions (2-3) but they were all in the forum I mod, I don't see a problem with another mod giving an infraction in "our" forum as long as it is warrented.

Uhm I'm pretty sure Jeff told us it was our business and that he had given us this 'power' for a reason...

Uhm I'm pretty sure Jeff told us it was our business and that he had given us this 'power' for a reason...


But different forums are moderated in different manners. For instance, some are more lenient than others, some aren't familiar with what should and shouldn't be in a particular forum that they don't frequent. All in all, I'd personally prefer going about it the way Faithless suggested.

I don't infract in forums that I don't moderate for the same reason that I don't moderate posts/threads in forums I don't moderate. I feel like it is the duty of the moderator of that section to take care of their forum. If they are not doing their job then I'll step in and do something. But I really don't like over-bounding my steps.

. But I really don't like over-bounding my steps.

Sorry Zok, I'm really not sure how you meant that last bit. Were you hinting that my thread in S&A was overstepping a boundary or my personal competence?

If so I will of course delete it or you can in passing.

I don't particularly like the system of infractions/rep. I much preferred the old system when, if required, I'd forum ban someone and submit their names and IP's to you or Acid to drop the ban hammer on.

But Jeff made it pretty clear he wants this

"Can give infractions" is a role-based right, not a forum-based right. Moderators can hand out infractions because they have the moderator role, not because they moderate a particular forum.

And when questioned about the point faithless/MLoR make about different strokes for different forums he asked for examples which no one seemed able to give.

I don't think the problem is that a 'foreign' mod doesn't know what counts as an infraction-able offence (the point Jeff also made) but that all our definitions of what is 'spam' is different. Sure we all know 'click here to increase your penis size' is clear to all but after that it gets a bit complex.

Already we've had a case of two mods disagreeing about an infraction for supposed spamming. The foreign mod felt it deserved an infraction , the forum mod didn't.

Maybe when Jeff reappears you and the other supermods could clarify the position with him?

Just because someone intends something, doesn't mean that it will take place in practice.

1.) I think that I should infract everyone that talks about hitting women in any way shape or form.
2.) Anybody that talks about the people I know in a rude or insulting manner.
3.) Anybody that posts disgusting pictures.
4.) People that are hurtful without reason.
5.) et al.

We moderate forums, not people. These infractions would be against people, since it's outside of a forum that you moderate. Unless it's a clear temp-ban, there's no reason that I can see to worry about infractions in other forums.

Just because someone intends something, doesn't mean that it will take place in practice. true but it might kinda nice to respect root's wishes as he runs/owns the place? I just wish he'd just granted this 'power' to the super-mods alone (ie that mods could only give infractions in their own forums). And when he comes online I hope the super mods will pertition him thus.

true but it might kinda nice to respect root's wishes as he runs/owns the place? I just wish he'd just granted this 'power' to the super-mods alone (ie that mods could only give infractions in their own forums). And when he comes online I hope the super mods will pertition him thus.

Just because you have power, it doesn't mean that you have to exercise it.

I would say that the ability to use infractions outside the forum you moderate is handy if someone decides to mass spam a forum where there is no active moderator. Otherwise, it's just an option to let rust.

I do like the infraction thing. It's good that a bad poster can be gotten rid of much quicker than if we all had to ask one person to do it when they've got the time.


From the responses in this thread I'm starting to agree, that if it aint outright spam, then I keep my snout out of it.

I've only ever handed out infractions in forums that I'm familiar with, and only when I'm sure the recipient deserved it.
I am less reluctant to give infractions is my own forum tough, I feel a bit queasy playing deputy on foreign ground I guess :p

If I see a post that warrents an infraction, I'll give the infraction regardless of the forum I'm in.

If a mod disagrees with that infraction, then it's their perogative to rescind it.

I have given out infractions in the Suggestion Box and B&M once or twice.

The one in SB was for a page worth of goatse man. And the one[s] in B&M were clear cases of spam too.

But other than that I don't infract in a forum that I don't Mod.

Only if it was a serious issue. I've never had to do it though, most of the forums have active mods now.

How would you feel if a foreighn mod gave out an infraction in NA to a poster who posted something like "LOL I JUST KILLED MY CAT" ?

Because in OI, that would very clearly be spam, unless there was a recipe attatched.
I'm DIY there'd possibly be requests for a 'how to' guide accompanying it.
In BLTC.. well I guess it would be moved if it didnt explain how to inhale cat bone marrow to make a rather potent opiate.

I'm just curious. And also dont want to piss you off by butting in..

The word serious was the important one in my post.

Well I know Outright goatse spam and page stretchers are serious. I was more curious about your own oppinion and how you run NA.

I tend to not be heavy handed with infractions. Something like the animal abuse threads I deal with on a case by case basis. I know they posters that do it, and if they continue to post threads they'd get infractions. If someone made a thread titled exactly how you said - its more then likely a joke thread to try and piss off the mods - and normally I'll close it warning the topic starter. If they've added img tags of dead animals and such - its then that they're more then likely get an infraction (and I delete the images).

Posters, especially in the sub forums, generally listen to a warning first.


I like the idea of giving people one chance - a lot of the time they're just pushing the boundaries like children, to see when they're going to get smacked. Most tend to stop once as they've been warned, and often if they continue, the one infraction is enough to put them off.

Thanks for that :)

I'd say the foreign mod should be able to give infractions. If there is a disagreement between the forum mod and the foreign mod, well, just got with the forum mod. It's their forum to moderate, they should do it how they see fit. that is why they moderate that particular forum. They know how things go down there.

So pretty much, yes foreign mods should be able to give infractions in other forums, but not over the authority of that particular forum mod

For some reason I had some great difficulty typing all that, damn this hangover!

I like the idea of giving people one chance - a lot of the time they're just pushing the boundaries like children, to see when they're going to get smacked.

We've had words about this in the past. You need to stop smacking random kids.

^^I agree. A tightly rolled up newspaper is much more effective.

The only thing I look for in HB are posting IPs, addresses, names, and child porn.

I dont see a single problem in helping a fellow mod take out his trash. Meta has enough shit to deal with and I help out occasionally when he isnt on in SG.

^ You do realise that theres 3 other mods in that forum too? Plus any supermod that takes a look in there. You don't need to 'take over meta' when hes offline - infractions are for serious offences, not because someone made one troll thread.
I can understand you giving an infraction if you see something like a lot of spam threads/spam attack being posted. But in all seriousness, say you give them an infraction for a harmful link or personal info - big shit? It's likely that that won't ban them (unless they're a repeat offender) and still the personal info is sitting there in the post - which you can't edit because you don't actually mod the forum :p

Can you see what I'm getting at? Don't go LOOKING in OTHER peoples forums to try and 'help' moderate it.
Infractions given out in a forum other then your own shouldn't be things you go looking for - you shouldn't be sitting in SG waiting for the trolls to post.

^ Yup, the last thing we need is activist mods.

Can you see what I'm getting at? Don't go LOOKING in OTHER peoples forums to try and 'help' moderate it.

Amen.

- you shouldn't be sitting in SG waiting for the trolls to post.

Has anyone ever had to wait for that???!!!!

Defensive? I cant recall seeing more than Meta and sybil actually posting or modding anything. I dont mean that to be an ass to you, but I am just trying to say that I havent seen you or Xip posting much in SG. Of course that doesnt necessarilly say you dont mind it at all, I just point out that I have no evidence to see that you are minding it well. Keeping the sharpest eye on the forum and letting us all know it and I wont have any reason to think that you or your fellow mods will have taken care of any problems that may arise.

And why do you say I am LOOKING to mod others forums? I just happen to be there. Its not like I can only post in DIY or anything. Fact is that even with four mods, its not always enough; four pairs of eyes will not catch everything all the time.

And you do only look for site liabilities.

The only thing I look for in HB are posting IPs, addresses, names, and child porn.

IPs, addresses and CP are obviously breaches, but most people in HB know each other's first names and use them regularly. It's only a problem for us if somebody objects to it, but as far as I've seen nobody does. At least, Adrian and Steph and Jackson and Joe and Lee and Craig and Chris and other Chris and Jake and Frank and all the others don't... :p

Me and Euda also both usually delete anything really offensive or designed to actually hurt other regulars (we've both had to remove things like abortion pictures and animal abuse pictures in the past, as well as some personal insults). That's how we keep the forum rather than an actual rule, though; I personally would rather other mods didn't infract in there for that kind of thing. Removing it's what's important, and only the actual forum mods can do that (or the supermods). Although if it's somebody spamming it, feel free :)

It's likely that that won't ban them (unless they're a repeat offender) and still the personal info is sitting there in the post - which you can't edit because you don't actually mod the forum :p.

That's it, rub it in, you cow!!!


(kidding.)










I allways thought that if a mod keeps an eye on all forums that makes them a very good dilligent mod. Ofcourse, different forums have different ways of working. But generally I'd have no problem if a mod was lurking on the forum I moderate waiting for someone to post something horrible.
It feels almost luxuriously safe and protective. :)

I. At least, Adrian and Steph and Jackson and Joe and Lee and Craig and Chris and other Chris and Jake and Frank and all the others don't... :p



OMG its like an episode of some freaky Neo-Waltons...

"Good night Ben,Good night Mary Ellen, Good night Jim Bob, Good night John Boy, good night Olivia, good night Kunte Kinte"

I allways thought that if a mod keeps an eye on all forums that makes them a very good dilligent mod. Ofcourse, different forums have different ways of working. But generally I'd have no problem if a mod was lurking on the forum I moderate waiting for someone to post something horrible.
It feels almost luxuriously safe and protective. :)

If you submit and feel vulnerable to me, I'll give protective watch over your forum.

Creepy?

Just when you tohught it ws safe to post, hey /b/ started spamming again. D=

Sorry Zok, I'm really not sure how you meant that last bit. Were you hinting that my thread in S&A was overstepping a boundary or my personal competence?


Hah, not at all. No commentary on anyone's moderating. It was actually a poorly placed reference intended to be funny :p The actual saying is "stepping over my bounds" but as a kid I was a huge fan of the comedy duo Stan Laurel and Oliver Hardy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurel_and_Hardy) - Stan Laurel always said "over bounding my steps" instead of the proper saying.

My stance is that if you're going to infract someone for posts in the forum I moderate (NS&H), you just better have a really good reason. I'm not going to get territorial but I will ask questions if someone brings it up with me.

I think each mod does understand certain things about the forums they mod that not every other mod necessarily knows. Those little things can be important to balance. I generally think we have a good gang here and that we can solve any inter-mod issues though so at the same time I think every situation really needs it's own decision.

I generally agree with the position of keeping infractions to the posts and threads in the forums you moderate.

Defensive? I cant recall seeing more than Meta and sybil actually posting or modding anything. I dont mean that to be an ass to you, but I am just trying to say that I havent seen you or Xip posting much in SG. Of course that doesnt necessarilly say you dont mind it at all, I just point out that I have no evidence to see that you are minding it well. Keeping the sharpest eye on the forum and letting us all know it and I wont have any reason to think that you or your fellow mods will have taken care of any problems that may arise.

And why do you say I am LOOKING to mod others forums? I just happen to be there. Its not like I can only post in DIY or anything. Fact is that even with four mods, its not always enough; four pairs of eyes will not catch everything all the time.

Hardly defensive, did you not see the :p ?

I live in a different time zone then all the other mods! And you for that matter, think about that.
I mod SG perfectly fine thank you, I check it regularly and often when its not so busy (because most of the American posters are in bed, and its only the aussies and english on.) Just because I don't post as much doesn't mean it doesn't get checked, in fact out of the 4 forums I mod, SG get most of my attention, and rightly so since its traffic is a lot heavier. I think the only forum I post more in would be S&A. If you're so concerned about the welfare of SG, see where I post theres a button in my profile that will show you.

I never said you were looking to mod another forum, I said you shouldnt go into another forum with the INTENTION to mod - which I never said you DID either, I was putting it out there for everyone to read.

Hah, not at all. No commentary on anyone's moderating. It was actually a poorly placed reference intended to be funny :p The actual saying is "stepping over my bounds" but as a kid I was a huge fan of the comedy duo Stan Laurel and Oliver Hardy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurel_and_Hardy) - Stan Laurel always said "over bounding my steps" instead of the proper saying.

Ahhh right. Yes "Dick u. Doof" ...."another fine mess you got me into" is the only catch phrase of theirs I remember.

. I think the only forum I post more in would be S&A. .

And what have we done to deserve this? :P

(kidding, you're a very valued poster on S&A...wrong but valued :P)

And what have we done to deserve this? :P

(kidding, you're a very valued poster on S&A...wrong but valued :P)



I just balance you out. :p

I just balance you out. :p

You mean I'm right but not valued?...true so true :(

"another fine mess you got me into" is the only catch phrase of theirs I remember.

hehe, I think that's one of their finest and most well known quotes.

hehe, I think that's one of their finest and most well known quotes.

[off topic but might interest you]


Das ist ein schönes Schlamassel, in dem Du mich wieder gebracht hast (http://tinyurl.com/3a65pb)

If you submit and feel vulnerable to me, I'll give protective watch over your forum.



It's a deal!

BUmp cos Root is here and I'd really value his input on this one!

vBulletin's setup allows you to assign the "can give infractions" to a "user role" -- it's not tied to a particular forum.

The fact that you can hand out infractions to anyone in any forum isn't because I think that's how it should work, it's just how vBulletin was written. Just because you have the ability to hand out infractions to anyone, anywhere doesn't mean you should.

The user roles that have this ability are Administrators (me), Super-Moderators, and Moderators. At some point I may give the ability to other people as well. If I do that, then it really won't be tied to a particular forum.

I think a better solution is to get agreement on what constitutes an infraction, so if someone does give someone an infraction in "your" forum, you'll think "Yeah, I would have done the same thing" -- and you'll think that every time it happens.

Here's a tangent to think about: What if there were no titles, nothing that indicated that someone was or wasn't a moderator, but people just had additional abilities based on their totse-karma? You help out, you get more abilities and access to more tools, you post spam or crap-posts, you never get any more abilities than a newbie.

Could you make a sticky thread in here for us to each post an outline of what consitiutes an infraction within the forums?

It would be handy for some people to have a reference. That way nobody is left in the dark.