Well I've decided to start out by making some amphetamines from their corresponding essential oils, namely TMA-2 and DMMDA-2. I chose the performic route to the ketone of DMMDA-2, as it's easy as shit, and then probably aminating with formamide (shit, maybe I have a thing for formate ions, lol). Unfortunately, aluminum amalgamation to the METHamphetamine is out of the question because DMMDMA-2 blows. Sound good?

Now here's my problem. TMA-2 (from asarone) REALLY interests me, but unfortunately (so I've heard) the performic and peracetic methods form the epoxide, and I don't wanna fuck with that. If there's a modified version of these 2 syntheses I could use, that would be tight. But for Now I've decided to go to the aldehyde with KMnO4, and don't really know where to go from there. Possibly to the nitropropane with EtNO2 and ammonium acetate, but do you guys know any better aldehyde-aminopropane routes?

No you didn't, ossifer... now please quit making fake posts as an excuse to subpeona the server logs.

I know of no purely formic reduction, though zinc formate should get you ahead.

Also, ammonia and methylamine are *usually* perfectly interchangable in reductive amination. You'll get slightly lower yields for the amine due to a minor increase in dimerization, but nothing critical. I think. Maybe.

Eh? No way to oxidize the epoxide or anything? Oh well...

Your yields of trimethoxyphenylmethylaldehyde will probably be... low. Once you've got past that.... no, as far as I've heard, nitroethane is pretty much the only route I can think of to the nitropropene.

Then again, I've mostly ignored the nitropropane synths. They always sounded like cheating to me.

I dont really want to mess with anhydrous NH3 So I'm going with formamide. And sorry for not being a total fucking idiot and using "SWIM", as if it does anything.

And the performic acid route I smoke of isnt a reduction, but an oxidation to the ketone. Good try sounding like you know what youre talking about though.

I'm not totally sure about rearranging the epoxide with H2SO4, but I'm pretty sure I read it wouldn't work too well. I'm thinking of going with a buffered peracetic (ugh.... talk about waiting) and just get shitty yields, as the active dose of TMA-2 is only 20mg.

...and it'll just keep getting better and better, bay-bee!

'n yeah. I've read zwit's amusing humor multiple times. It's that "aminating with formic acid" which made me wonder when the fuck it became a reducing agent...

...but, that sorta explains it. Lysing with NaOH after the fact, I presume? Not the worst idea. Pretty good, actually.

...some of the reductions are actually pretty water- and salt-tolerant, as long as you've got a reduction-resistant ptc lying around. Whatever works for you.

SWIM forgives you. SWIM also agrees that referring to SWIM as SWIM should be done for the sake of upholding beautiful tradition, as opposed to hoping that no one will question SWIM about the activities of SWIM...

...there is, however, a signifigant difference between "If I were to ___, what..." and "I'll be ___ this weekend, and..." Have fun when a mod sees this.

Hmm... sounds good.

...I figure it'd be difficult... it's just the impetuous wingnut in me that demands to find a way to overcome..

...'n speaking of yields and cleanup... there's also the option on decarboxylating the benzoate in thujone and simply adding the alkene of choice. Your yields would still be low... but... your 'unwanted byproducts' would be positional isomers for which one might strive to attain chromatographic seperation. If you've got to have low yields... might as well get something out of it...

...or, for that matter, your main (and overwelming) contaminant from KMnO4 would be the starting carboxylic acid... hmm...

...whatever you do, good luck.

[quote=JoePedo;8175512]




Also, ammonia and methylamine are *usually* perfectly interchangable in reductive amination. You'll get slightly lower yields for the amine due to a minor increase in dimerization, but nothing critical. I think. Maybe.



huh? just like ether and P2P or like money and apples perfectly interchangable

YOU are not admitting to performing an illegal act, are you Heat??

HeaT, you have come a long way- I am very impressed. Don't let anyone get you down about not being retarded and using SWIM; I'd phrase it more subjunctively, but come on....

Personally, amination via formic acid has been very, very good to me in other endeavors. I have a soft spot for it- not that it helps you at all. [Edit- Alternatively, you could consider sodium borohydride if for some reason you're not satisfied (no idea why you wouldn't be).]

Anyway, I suggest trying to go the epoxide-hydrolyzed-to-diol route, but that definitey looks like it can be work.

Unfortunately, I don't know of any alternatives to the use of nitroethane/ammonium acetate in your last question. What are you wishing to avoid by finding another route? Purification? Want better yields?

I guess if you were interested in peracetic acid, I would recommend making your own, since you say what you have is heavily buffered. I'd recommend that for sort of a last resort, though.

I just don't want to go through making nitroethane. I'm looking for more of an OTC route.

And of course I'm not actually doing this. I mean't that I've decided to imagine syntheses, not actually perform them.

Well, you could try distilling off ethylamine from acetaldehyde and ammonium chloride.

Nitrosation, rings a bell, so does Rhodium & Pugsley...
& a Hunchback (sorry, just had to add that)