I am thinking of ordering a pound of Ephedra and extracting the Ephidrine to make CAT or meth. How would I go about purifing it? I assume it would involve solvants and stuff so just direct me to a site that tells you how or tell me here. Tried google but i couldn't find anything so don't tell me to try there.

Also,If I was to order a pound of CAT herb could I extract the Cathinone and convert it to Methcathinone,what would it involve or wouldn't it be worth it?

I can get both Khat and Epherdra really cheap so if i can extract the purify the alkaloids that would be great. I have a pretty good basic knowledge of chemistry so try to tell me in laymens terms. I know I need to oxidize the hydroxyl group of Ephedrine to a keytone which would make CAT. My school chemistry lab has lots of KMnO4 lying around so I will probably use that as the oxidizer. I am still learning about the meth synthisis but I don't think i'm ready for that yet, but eventually I will. Anyway,if you know a simple way of getting the ephedrine out please share it.

These are Newbie Questions I know,but hey,everyone's gotta start somewhere. Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Do the math though. 1% of 448 grams=???

Order ten pounds.

I'll post an ephedra extraction method though just for shits and grins.



Jam.

Growing it isn't as crazy as it sounds.

Here's a seed supplier http://www.sacredseed.com/ricephs.htm

Extracting the alkaloids with ammonia and benzene is a breeze but seporating them will be a hassle.

Im sure the whole mass of alkaloids can be sucessfully used as is in whatever rxn your thinking about.

I didn't write this but am gonna keep the author private for personal reasons. The author grew his/hers ehphedra as you will notice but the extrct is universal. Also where it is stated that the alkoloids extracted were viable in their usage is 100% accurate-Jam

Ephedra processing and or alkoloid extraction method discourse Copyright 2003

The plant was collected,

then run through a lawn mower several times. An enclosed area was used to keep the stems from flying everywhere,

Placed in a large pot , boiled ,

pressure filtered through paper towels in a homemade filter, made from an igloo cold drink container. holes drilled in ther botton, air pressure injected into the top,

further boiled and concentrated.

The thick dark black syruo was A/B ed using lye and coleman's then dropped into dustilled water using HCl , It is only 1%-2$ Ephedrine , but when starting off with 70 pounds of plant it becomes a pound of the good Ephedrinee

No hydroxy propyl metha crapullose

All biologically active

It was fun to observe the skynrd sign with 3/4 of an inch of fluid still in the evaporating bowl.

The plant was collected from a southern facing slope, this is the sunny and dryside of a mountain at 5000 feet above sea level. The northern facing slopes produced healthy plants but a different type of plant with no Ephedrine

The lower altitudes, the plants were smaller and not quite the same, at higher altitudes there was not, any of the plant.

Cut and pasted by:Jam

Ephedra info for USA native species by dwarfer Copyright 2004

Ephedra

Ephedra nevadensis

Other Names: Brigham Tea, Mormon tea, American Ephedra, Nevada Joint-fir, American Ma Huang, Mexican tea, Desert Ephedra, Desert tea

Habitat: Southwestern N. America, found growing on dry slopes and hills, sandy plains, canyons, sandy and rocky places, deserts. Ephedra may be found further east in dry areas where it has escaped cultivation. Cultivation requires some effort, prefers light (sandy) dry, acid, soil in sunny position, cannot grow in the shade and not self-fertile, both male and female plants must be grown if seed is desired. An evergreen shrub growing 2 to 3 feet high with no leaves.

RUMOR HAS IT THAT IT CAN BE AS MUCH AS 8' HIGH



Stems are green, smooth, woody, branching, and very jointed. Small yellow-green buds appear in the joints when in bloom. Gather stems anytime and dry for later use.



RUMOR HAS IT THAT LATE FALL APPEARS TO GENERaTE BEST RESULTS..

Properties: Used extensively for food and medicine by Native Americans of the Southwest, especially in dry desert areas. The fruit or buds are eaten raw and have a very mild sweet taste.

???RUMOR HAS IT THAT YOU CAN TELL THE ALKALOID CONCENTRATION BY CHEWING ON A TWIG: THE BITTER TASTE AND RELATIVE TONGUE AND LIP NUMBING IS

INDICaTIVE....

The seed is roasted and used as coffee or ground into a meal for bread. The stems of most Ephedra species contain the alkaloid ephedrine which is very valuable in the treatment of asthma and many other respiratory complaints.



ALTHOUGH SINECA IS THE HIGHEST IN EPHEDRINE, NEVADENSIS HAS NOR-PSUEDO AND PHENYLPROPANOLAMINE ( i think i'm right: as well as a couple other isomers or stereo whatchacallits..)

The stems are anti-viral, antidote, antispasmodic, diaphoretic, blood purifier, diuretic, pectoral, febrifuge, vasodilator, stimulant, and tonic. The young stems are best if eaten raw, though older stems can be used to make a medicinal tea. The plant has antiviral effects, particularly against influenza. Unlike using the isolated or synthesized ephedrine, using the whole plant in alternative medicine is much more effective and rarely gives rise to serious side-effects. This is true with most herbs, but especially with Ephedra, since other plant constituents can help buffer or improve the actions of the main constituents.



THE PRODUCT GENERATED BY THE REDUCED PLANT ALKALOID EXTRACTS ARE WIDELY REPORTED TO BE

SUPERIOR TO THOSE FROM OTC EXTRACTS.

Other plant constituents in Ephedra are Calcium, Phosphorus, Protein, Flavone, Saponin, Tannins, and Volatile oil.

WHO GIVES A SHIT?



Ephedrine acts quickly to reduce swellings of the mucous membranes, dilates the bronchial vessels and has antispasmodic properties. Because of this scientifically proven action on the respiratory system it is known to have saved many lives, while Ephedra does not cure asthma it is very effective in treating the symptoms and making life somewhat easier for the sufferer. Used for centuries in Chinese medicine Ma Huang or Chinese Ephedra is well known and exported all over the world for use in pharmaceuticals to treat asthma, hay fever, allergic complaints, stimulating the heart and central nervous system, and kidney problems. While the chemical constituents in the American Ephedra plant is said to be less concentrated, it is still used for the same medicinal purposes and said to have fewer side effects.

6% IS COMMONLY AVAILABLE FROM SINECA, 3% FROM NEVADENSIS IS AVAILABLE. LIKE WOR SAID, 3% X 10 LBS IS A MERE .3 LBS IS A MERE 4.8 OZ., IS A MERE 150 GRAMS LUCKILY THE SOURCE IS FREE....

Caution is advised as an overdose can be fatal, causing high blood pressure, racing of the heart, confusion, nervous stupor, twitching, convolutions and death.

DAMN: WHY REDUCE IT IT SOUNDS KINDA COOL LIKE IT IS..



Ephedrine is seen as a performance-boosting herb and is a forbidden substance in many sporting events such as athletics. This herb should not be used by people who are taking monoamine oxidase inhibitors, or suffering from high blood pressure, hyperthyroidism or glaucoma.

However the BAD reputation this herb has received stems from the use or misuse of the synthesized form of its main constituent EPHEDRINE.

Folklore: Ephedra was found buried in a Middle Eastern neolithic grave, indicating that it was used as a medicine over 60,000 years ago (TRUE). It is believed that the roots of the plant have the opposite effect of the stems, this is unproven. An infusion of the dried stems has been used in the treatment of venereal diseases.

THAT'S WHAT MADE THOSE SORES GO AWAY AT LAST!



The pulverized or boiled stems were also used for delayed or difficult menstruation or applied externally as a poultice on syphilitic and other sores by some native North American Indians.

WORKED FOR ME...

It was also used as a ceremonial drug to improve the alertness of the hunter and the wood of the plant is considered the best charcoal for tattooing.

I DIDN'T KNOW THAT!

dwarfer



Cut and pasted by: Jam.

Is that a joke?

Since the plant alkaloids are in their freebase form boiling the herb in water would be like steam distilling the goods away.

An a/b extraction with 3% ammonia, benzene and hcl will do it.

quote:Originally posted by BizzyBee:

Extracting the alkaloids with ammonia and benzene is a breeze but seporating them will be a hassle.

Im sure the whole mass of alkaloids can be sucessfully used as is in whatever rxn your thinking about.Why seperate?1 And is it a hassel?! According to you or what you've read?!

Ain't no way can you tell me you are speaking from experience.

And ain't no way is this going to turn into you discounting the thread the whole way through.

That's pollution and to stop anymore this is my solution-nip it in the bud or at least try.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BizzyBee:

Is that a joke?

Since the plant alkaloids are in their freebase form boiling the herb in water would be like steam distilling the goods away.

An a/b extraction with 3% ammonia, benzene and hcl will do it.BizzyBee you're really hung-up here on your ammonia aren't you?!

Not impressed by the other method posted here?!

Is it a joke?! Perhaps if you're going on theory and conjecture here. Instead of real-life recitals of methodology used and and tried and true.

This author is by and far the most respected person ever to of come intocyberspace..why would he joke?!

Check me I check you man.

You go try your ammonia benzene method and repoprt back.

Until then ain't nothing funny here going on but the impressian you're attempting to give as to your skills.

we're cool here if you're cool.

If not that's on you not me.

Jam.

Well when extracting ephedrine from the ephedra bases there is an anoying optical Isomer which is R-ephedrine, which seems to act in the same way yet not active!

quote:Originally posted by BizzyBee:

Extracting the alkaloids with ammonia and benzene is a breeze but seporating them will be a hassle.

Im sure the whole mass of alkaloids can be sucessfully used as is in whatever rxn your thinking about.



benzene?!?!?!?! maybe 30 years ago before everyone realized it will cut the remaining years of your life in half... ::sigh::...

jam

in your first post giving the extraction technique,,

it doesnt state what liquid you used to boil the plant material..

thanks

I would guess water.

from memory alkaloids are not soluble in water,,

and since im working from memory im going to be shot down in flames.

quote:Originally posted by BizzyBee:

Extracting the alkaloids with ammonia and benzene is a breeze but seporating them will be a hassle.

Im sure the whole mass of alkaloids can be sucessfully used as is in whatever rxn your thinking about.

Benzene is almost as flamable as ethyl ether! Benzine is also more carcinogenic than most of the other np solvents.

A sol of NaOH would also make a better alkali than ammonia that has those horrable vapors to it.

One should extracts the herb with a sol of an alcohol, and then A/B the extract with the aNaOH solution(~10%) and naphtha or some other paint thinner. Then one can salt it out with the HCl.



[This message has been edited by DrY.R.Head (edited 01-22-2004).]