What causes go-go to have no leg? I am guessing that its caused from not being fully converted or maybe lots of impurities in it. Any thoughts on this?

Yeah, I thought I could handle doing a half gram at once, boy was I wrong about that.

Unc, it sounds like you answered your own question.

I'm guessing most likely impurities, such as Vita Blend, caffiend(spelled like that on purpose)or whatever is being used nowdays to cut dope. Then again it could just be really shitty stuff too.

SWIM agrees bill its most likly not fully reduced. SWIM knows that some times short hot cooks produce dope that has less legs.

redfoss, shut the hell up and get to know the people that hang out here, unclebill has been around the block enough to know if he was doin cut shit. quit trying to answer every single question like you know everything when its so obvious to people that do know a little that you dont.

I've been pondering on this very subject alot myself here lately. I was going to start a similar post.

Swiss' product consistently provided "the best of both worlds", which as you know is the "Holy Grail" of our beloved craft.

However, as of late, Swiss has noticed a "lacking in the leg department"...This threatens the integrity of his "workmanship", and compromises his humble disposition as "The Regional Champion" and makes him nervous..."His shit...lacking?" Unacceptable.

Fortunately, only the seasoned vets, have made the "distinction",(The torque of the "initial take off" rips even the most rigid 4 bolt mains to mere shrapnel) and they assure him his shit is still #1.

Of course I noticed...and thought, "That's alright...it'll have the legs next time."

To make a long story short, The leg is still somewhat lacking.

I was ready to start researching, and call upon my T.O.T.S.E and W.D. B.R.O.E.S. (Ladies if you're a member...you're a bro!) for thier input...input into a hardly addressed,debated, mostly "avoided" subject

I have went over the details in my head trying to pinpoint a variable in the equations responsible for the lack of legs, but I couldn't determine any specific wild cards or changes.

However on second thought, The duration of my reactions had been gradually getting shorter, but I had just acreddited that to advancements in knowledge, or "progress"...Possibly as a result of using clean high grade R, which accelerates the reaction considerably, and at the least gives signs" of a complete reaction.

What I have concluded from this is: "Legs" seem to develop over a longer duration of reaction...At least 4 hours, with good, clean precursers.

And that quite possibly a slower or more "controlled" reaction should be maintaned throughout. My observations may also suggest that the "violence" associated with an intense, "hot" reaction is detrammental to the constituants that are responsible for producing long-legged dope, perhaps destroying or neutralizing a more "delicate" process of conversion.

That's my take on it. Anyone support these "theories?" Dispute?

SWIM agrees and has been saying this for years. he has done many experiments with his roaddogs and the general consensus was that the shorter and hotter the cook the less legs the dope had. it was directly attributed to the length and temp. and didnt seem to matter if lab grade reagents were used or not, what cleaning regimen was used, nor what post rxn workup was used. several cooks employing many different techniques were involved and it always kept comming down to length and temp. this was agreed on by all involved and is the only thing in history that more than 2 cooks have agreed on as far back as SWIM can remember. the exact threshold where the legs suffered was never established as that would have required a more controlled experiment with closer monitoring of said cooks, methods etc. and you know how cooks are lol. here is what SWIM and his roaddogs later came up with in regards to the loss of legs. the exact times were never established but anything under 6 hours was agreed by all to produce loss of legs, anything over 190 F in temp combined with the time was agreed upon. now SWIM will tell what was agreed on by all to be a good all around time, temp and ratios to produce clean burning, long legged, no taste, easy high and comedown shit and is what SWIM uses to this day.

RATIOS: 1 gram E/1.2 grams I2/1 gram MBRP (0.3 gram RP if lab grade)/0.7ml DH2O

TEMPS: 170 first 4 hours then 190 F for next 8 hours

LENGTH OF COOK: 12 to 14 hours. more wont hurt, less than 12 and the risk of loss of quality and durability of legs starts to suffer.

IMPORTANT SIDE NOTES: all 3 reagents must be bone fuckin DRY or the proper water measurment becomes a lucky guess at best. all 3 reagents MUST be clean. the above crude guidelines set forth by upallnite productions and crew seems to result in an acceptable product that meets most everyones requirments IE: long legged, clean, stump grinding torque yet smooth acceleration, can eat and maintain body functions and mind clarity with a perfect amount of that "whos that looking in the window, the cops are following me, the trees have eyes" feeling to make it fun and not boring but not on the edge of running down the street screaming with an axe either. the above guidelines were agreed on by several cooks that have well over 100 years experience combined. its not meant to be the gospel. just a rough tally of results from a ragrag motley crew of outlaws whos motto is..."IT AINT BRAGGIN MOTHERFUCKER IF YOU CAN BACK IT UP"

Dammnit, this is a term SWIM has always heard, but never knew exactly what it referred to. SWIM guesses the term "legs" is used to define either the high you get (i.e., jacked the fuck up not sitting for a while), or the length of the straight lines in the crystal formation of meth. I am assuming by now the latter. In which here is what I have to say:

Most of you pretty much have hit it on the head. The most likely cause of what I guess you would call "shorter legs" is incomplete reduction. You should try taking some of this and reducing it again, as if it were pseudo. If your a push/puller, you could perform it the first time (which if you can do the dry type right it should come out right anyways), work it up and clean/recrystallize the result. Clean up the left over rp and maybe add a little bit of fresh rp, and use the product to just run it again. For experimention, you can take a small amount of your no-legged dope, like a gram, quickly scrape enough matches or use leftovers or whatever, and run it through again. See if the product improves any.

If it does, esp. if one is a dry push/puller, fuck it an reduce again. If your a refluxer and you get under reduced shit, then your either not refluxing long enough, or not enough HI was used, or too much H2O was present.

I wonder if a 5 or 6 hour reflux was stopped and worked up, and the result ran through a 2 hour dry push/pull would give the same results as a long reflux. Premake HI using another method other than with rp, and use it to reflux your pseudo in with only a small amount (like maybe 1/10th) of rp. Then work-up, and do a dry p/p with the rest of the rp. It's worth some looking into, cause you may produce the results pf 12 or 24 hour refluxes in shorter time.

clean shit in = clean shit out,,, swims found clean ingred make the diff usen rp/io and 3 hour cooks in dream world.

also gassin properly is a bit trick to ratio's reduced and retrieved in the end of dream.

swims dream of 15 E/ 17 io/ 17 rp rxn'ed for 3 to 3 1/2 hours worked quit well after dreaming a good through gassin of all np.



seen in dream a good ration and all looked like it went too well... read , read, read..



rnx57

Any differences seen under UV light? I mean

if one has one around. And just what?; would

it actually "mean" if one did "see" a diff?

Probably as usefull a tits on a spider, to

try, but maybe someone already knows.

quote:Originally posted by madchemist:

Dammnit, this is a term SWIM has always heard, but never knew exactly what it referred to. SWIM guesses the term "legs" is used to define either the high you get (i.e., jacked the fuck up not sitting for a while), or the length of the straight lines in the crystal formation of meth. I am assuming by now the latter. In which here is what I have to say:

Most of you pretty much have hit it on the head. The most likely cause of what I guess you would call "shorter legs" is incomplete reduction. You should try taking some of this and reducing it again, as if it were pseudo. If your a push/puller, you could perform it the first time (which if you can do the dry type right it should come out right anyways), work it up and clean/recrystallize the result. Clean up the left over rp and maybe add a little bit of fresh rp, and use the product to just run it again. For experimention, you can take a small amount of your no-legged dope, like a gram, quickly scrape enough matches or use leftovers or whatever, and run it through again. See if the product improves any.

If it does, esp. if one is a dry push/puller, fuck it an reduce again. If your a refluxer and you get under reduced shit, then your either not refluxing long enough, or not enough HI was used, or too much H2O was present.

I wonder if a 5 or 6 hour reflux was stopped and worked up, and the result ran through a 2 hour dry push/pull would give the same results as a long reflux. Premake HI using another method other than with rp, and use it to reflux your pseudo in with only a small amount (like maybe 1/10th) of rp. Then work-up, and do a dry p/p with the rest of the rp. It's worth some looking into, cause you may produce the results pf 12 or 24 hour refluxes in shorter time.



the term legs is in reference to how long you stay up before being able to sleep or not being able to stay awake. SWIM`s shit usually runs 4-5 days before one can/must sleep. its considered long legged. SWIM has done others shit that after 48 hours he cant stay awake even after a few big hits. that is considered short legged. SWIM has also done shit that had no legs lol. you raise some interesting and valid points MC. SWIM wishs that cooks could coordinate better for a more controlled experiment but its just not the nature of the beast to be able to do so. go`s with the territory SWIM supposes. at least thats what they say when you play the game.

Hey Big Foo-...I mean Wicked. What kind of pills(e)do you use if you don't mind me asking? (Sasquatch reference for humor purposes only!)

quote:Originally posted by madchemist:

Dammnit, this is a term SWIM has always heard, but never knew exactly what it referred to. SWIM guesses the term "legs" is used to define either the high you get (i.e., jacked the fuck up not sitting for a while), or the length of the straight lines in the crystal formation of meth. I am assuming by now the latter. In which here is what I have to say:

Most of you pretty much have hit it on the head. The most likely cause of what I guess you would call "shorter legs" is incomplete reduction. You should try taking some of this and reducing it again, as if it were pseudo. If your a push/puller, you could perform it the first time (which if you can do the dry type right it should come out right anyways), work it up and clean/recrystallize the result. Clean up the left over rp and maybe add a little bit of fresh rp, and use the product to just run it again. For experimention, you can take a small amount of your no-legged dope, like a gram, quickly scrape enough matches or use leftovers or whatever, and run it through again. See if the product improves any.

If it does, esp. if one is a dry push/puller, fuck it an reduce again. If your a refluxer and you get under reduced shit, then your either not refluxing long enough, or not enough HI was used, or too much H2O was present.

I wonder if a 5 or 6 hour reflux was stopped and worked up, and the result ran through a 2 hour dry push/pull would give the same results as a long reflux. Premake HI using another method other than with rp, and use it to reflux your pseudo in with only a small amount (like maybe 1/10th) of rp. Then work-up, and do a dry p/p with the rest of the rp. It's worth some looking into, cause you may produce the results pf 12 or 24 hour refluxes in shorter time.

Every once and a while TMG reads a thread or post that brings back fond memories MC`s is one.In my hood legs=duration.There was a time when batches were getting put out almost daily and when the pressure was on sometimes twice a day.During that time there was a noticeable slip in quality.The most noticeable was duration(legs if you will).On those weaker batches the end product was reduced again and the end product was Damn good!!I had forgotten about it until MC posted this.Im not gonna play the short cook vs the long wet reflux card tonight,TMG still loves the short dry cook.If done right there aint nothin like it via effy reductions anyway.Patience and cleanliness are virtues.No more under reducing for TMG.With age creepin up on TMG hes like a fine wine he cant be rushed

quote:Originally posted by Str8_Shooter!:

Hey Big Foo-...I mean Wicked. What kind of pills(e)do you use if you don't mind me asking? (Sasquatch reference for humor purposes only!)

SWIM uses white 60`s from wallyworld. says on the box: equate, suphedrine sinus & allergy. green and blue writing on a white box.

active ingrediants:

pseudo ephedrine hcl. 60 mg

chlorpheniramine maleate 4 mg.

inactives:

magnesium stearate

microcrystalline cellulose

and thats it. no "may also contain" anywhere on the box

not bad at a 1.57 a box of 24 either.

SWIM also is not afraid of any of the other brands of white 60`s as he has the TCE/JD method down to a science. he however only works with white 60`s. he finds the 120`s and 240`s to gakk and problem prone. the 30`s take an extra couple steps, the same amount of labor and chems yet only produce half what the 60`s do so fuck them too.

Bigfoot? That's what my roaddogs call me, and I was called sasquatch in high school.

I do not try to answer every question, but i do notice that you have quite a large number of posts and/or replies to post that are derogetory and disrespectful. If there was a reason why i wouldnt want to get to know anybody in here it would be assholes like you. You have only shown me how little you do know. There is one thing I know you dont know and thats me. Get a life dude there is more to it then spending your every waking minute in here criticizing every post or reply.



quote:Originally posted by Wicked_Rain:

SWIM agrees bill its most likly not fully reduced. SWIM knows that some times short hot cooks produce dope that has less legs.

redfoss, shut the hell up and get to know the people that hang out here, unclebill has been around the block enough to know if he was doin cut shit. quit trying to answer every single question like you know everything when its so obvious to people that do know a little that you dont.

quote:Originally posted by RedFoss4us:

I do not try to answer every question, but i do notice that you have quite a large number of posts and/or replies to post that are derogetory and disrespectful. If there was a reason why i wouldnt want to get to know anybody in here it would be assholes like you. You have only shown me how little you do know. There is one thing I know you dont know and thats me. Get a life dude there is more to it then spending your every waking minute in here criticizing every post or reply.





HAHAHAHA look here boy with face of dick (dickface). your right im an asshole but i contribute to this forum with info i KNOW to be fact. not a bunch of bullshit that i heard or speculated or theorized. just like in the thread where i answered that silver nitrate cant be used to sub RP. you start with... well how do you know it wont work, have you tried it, one dont know it wont work till one trys it abd blah blah blah bullshit. well i didnt flame you then did i? you wanna know why it wont work? cuz i fuckin said it wouldnt work thats why. end o story. it would be easier to make gasoline outta choclate syrup than to replace RP with silver nitrate. so if you dont know something shut the fuck up, read and learn. hasnt anyone ever told you that you cant learn when your mouth is moving. your right i have a few negative posts, mostly to dumbass`s like you. but read on and see what else i contribute to the forum. now go piss up a rope youngster.

oh and have a nice fuckin day. there is that better?

Wicked's right, redfrothylips. You haven't contributed anything here, so if you leave, you won't be missed.

Pure methamphetamine only found in Desoxyn which Jam is prescribed is a 48 hour ride. This refers to only doing Desoxyn. At hour 47 the headache and muscleache come on like a hurricane.

The length of time between each shot is dead-on six hours.

However, the hedache and muscleaches forsake you if food and water were consumed to the point where the stomach had both to burn at all times.

Long wet reflux dope does indeed allow one to run a 120 hou day, but the length of time between each shot is no more than dope from a one-three hour push/pull etc.

If on the push/pull dope ephedrine and not pseudo was used and magnesium shavings like that of a fire-starter found at the camping section at Wal-Mart are added to the I2/E mix prior to the phosphorus fire the legs increase o produce a dope from which a 96 hour day is feasible.

But and this is a huge-Butt(let the puns fly!) the feeling one gets from the shorter Rxn is far ssuperior in it's rush and mind you some of these rushes last 90 minutes with blurry vision and cocaine-type-echoes and once the rush subsides the euphorics that follow are equal to that of P2P-dope.



Jam doesn't want to say the shorter is better.

But the fact that a long wet reflux dope never seems to rush longer than 30 minutes after the plungers pushed aswell as the high that follows is withou the euphorics and euphoric here doesn't mean high!!

Euphoric means ain't no way the first two hours you should drive as it requires cognitives lost for a temporary bit of time and this is due to the fact you can't get out of your sitting position.

If pseudo is reduced fast in a push/pull th dope is a shorter lapse of time between the shots.

But magnesium does produce longer legs as a whole.



No dope in reality lasts longer than six hours in its optimum buzz.

Except if it is phenyl-2-propone produced stuff.

For me it is the high and not the days that matters.

If dope is produced with H3PO3 the exception to the rules are enforced.

For if you ever had some of the 45-minute wonder and went Monday through Saturday on it you would have to wonderjust what are the rules to the dance called cold/asthma-pill reductions!!!



H3PO3 has legs and the rush all in one.

Jam prefers three days max before his shot of diactlymorphine and half-gram of his proper buds.



From 1992-97 I averaged 8 hours a week of sleep.



And am still amazed the ole-brin bounced back!!

Them sleep deficits never disappear!! Like a credit card!!



Two-a-days seem to jive with a true sense of coherance throguh and throguh.



And nothing can put up a fight with 75 miligrams of pure diactlymorphine hydrochloride man!!

And no monkey on the back to bother you as well!!!



But I am giving my purpose for my preference here fellas.



As well as some techniques only old-School fools learned in dope cookin school.

I do not imply in anyway this is the only way to do it.

But legs only matter when?!

Not when you got thirty units just injected and hitting the ole-brain!!!



No sir! That-there is why we do dope!!

And we dare not ever fight the feeling right?!

Jam.

The push-pull descriptions I have read have reaction times of around 1.5 hours. But many people seem to advise long reaction times like 8 hours or even as much as 24 hours. Are these longer reaction times just for reflux setups and not for push-pull?

How can the push-pull technique get away with just an hour or two when reflux takes so much longer?

On a related topic, Wicked_Rain said that swim uses 0.5 to 0.7 ml of dH2O per mg of E. Is that appropriate for push-pull, reflux, or for either setup?

As soon as swim finally gets his E cleaned up he will try to answer these questions for himself. A little guidance from the elders would be great in the mean time. Thanks.

quote:Originally posted by Gordon853:



On a related topic, Wicked_Rain said that swim uses 0.5 to 0.7 ml of dH2O per mg of E. Is that appropriate for push-pull, reflux, or for either setup?





no, SWIM said 0.5-0.7 ml DH2O per GRAM of E.

SWIM is sure this was a typo on your part Gordon but figured he better make sure before SWIG had to use a 5 gallon distlled water jug for a flask. lol whew that would be 500-700 ml of water per gram of E. damn man it would take a 55 gallon barrel to do an ounce.

hey Jam, interesting post. so, u say the magnesium shavings (SWIM has a U.S. mil. firestarter on his keychain) are only useful w/ an eph RXN not a pseudo one? and u seem to b saying the mag. is superfluous when using phos acid, right?

now onto your diacetylmorphine; are u making it from the opium u mentioned in a previous post? if so, where the heck do u get that acetic anhydride? do u make it yourself? is it from photo supplies? how the hell does my friend SWIM get some (SWIM has a consistant supply of opium just waiting to b potentiated)?

Well the magnesium applies to red & black cooks a_a.

Maybe it would work on the pseudo but from the last time it was tried on pseudo it if I remeber rightly didn't seem to of added anything to the legs.

I don't use pseudo and probably will never have to until I die so I really can't comment for certain on the matter.

All I know man is it does do something to the red and black batches that you can tell the difference come around the 36th hour or so.



As to the opium I'm currently working on a tread which will give the whole 9 and 1/2 on the matter.



I type slow so bare with me.

Jam. <A HREF="http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/smoking/rauch16.gif">http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/smoking/rauch16.gif" width="90" height="90 (http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/smoking/rauch16.gif" width="90" height="90)</A>

enough with your bullshit reasons for gross imcompetency at the keyboard level