 Re: Its gone?
Neither the author of this post, nor this website or its owners advocate the use, manufacture or sale of any controlled substance. All posts are for information and entertainment purposes only, and should not be considered meaningful.
MANY OF YOU HAVE ALREADY READ THIS BUT DONT CLOSE IT OUT YET, SWIM HAS ADDED A NEW PILL EXTRACTION TECHNIQUE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE POST. IT WAS ADDED TODAY 8/29/03 SCROLL DOWN TO SEE IT. THANKS TO GEEZ OVER AT CHEMHEAD.
Psuedo Extraction:
SWIVE is back with a new twist for producing clean pseudo HCL in high yields from an ever changing array of pills. It's not only water less like Straight to B, its simpler with no A/B at all. Its Straight to E or straight to the extraction. It is a simple extraction method that will bypass most of todays modern adulterants and will return a very high yield of clean pseudo HCL. This can then be recrystallized or turned into free base to produce a pristine product. This method was written to be easily scalable and is very over the counter. Average yields have been 80% to 90% of clean pseudo HCL.
- Definitions -
In this write up SWIVE will use the phrase "for every box of pills used"
This stands for every box of 48 x 60mg, or 96 x 30mg, or 20 x 120mg or 10 x 240mg.
- Materials -
Three beakers or other heat proof glassware containers
(approximately 200ml for every box of pills used)
One elemeyer flask or other heat proof glassware container
(approximately 200ml for every box of pills used)
One graduated cylinder 100ml -200ml or other liquid measuring device in mls
Two 5" glass funnels or plastic fuel funnels
Filter Paper or coffee filters
Glass stirring rod or bamboo skewers
Hot plate
Small fan
Small scale weighing in grams
Safety glasses, latex gloves
Thermometer that is scaled to at least 120 C
- Solvents -
91% - 99% Isopropyl Alcohol (drug store)
MEK Methyl Ethyl Ketone (paint / hardware store)
VM&P Naptha - no substitutions (paint / hardware store)
(Do Not use Colemans, pet ether, lighter fluid, etc.)
Xylene (paint / hardware store)
- Drying Aids -
Oven dried Epsom Salts or Washing Soda (drug / food store)
Salt (food store)
- Abstract of Procedure -
Make extraction fluid.
Place whole pills into beaker.
Add extraction fluid.
Heat to boiling , stirring until pills dissolve
Filter while hot into elemeyer flask.
Repeat two times.
Return combined extractions to clean beaker.
Add Xylene
Heat to 105 (221 F) C to boil off alcohol.
Filter out pseudo HCL
Wash pseudo HCL with MEK and let dry.
- Standard Procedure -
01) For every box of pills used: combine the following solvents and
drying materials in a clean beaker and in the following order:
- 70ml (2.35 liquid ounces) Isopropyl Alcohol
- 70ml VM&P Naptha
- 02 grams of salt
- 04 grams of dried epsom salts or dried washing soda
02) Stir with a glass rod for a few minutes, then let settle for 10 minutes.
Depending on how much water was in the isopropyl alcohol to start with the
mixture will settle into 2 layers or 1 layer with damp solids at the bottom.
Why not use pre dried solvents to begin with? - that is perfectly ok if you have them,
but I have noticed that adding the isopropyl and naptha together almost always releases
some water no matter how dry they were ahead of time so I would not skip this step.
03) Filter this into the elemeyer flask leaving any solids or bottom liquid layer
behind and then transfer this solution into the second clean beaker.
04) Place whole pills in to the third clean beaker.
Why whole pills? Dont I need to grind them up first? - no we are trying to keep loss
to a minimum and grinding is not necessary as the isopropyl / naptha mixture will
dissolve them very well.
05) Pour 1/3 solvent mixture over pills.
06) Place the beaker on the hotplate and bring to a boil using
medium hi heat. Use the small fan to keep vapors from accumulating.
Stir occasionally with a glass rod until pills have dissolved into powder.
Let boil for 1-2 minutes
07) Place a funnel with filter paper in to the elemeyer flask.
Filter the solvent mixture while hot leaving as much of the solids
in the beaker as possible.
08) Return any solids to the beaker and repeat steps 5 through 7
two times combining the extractions in to the elemeyer flask.
09) For every box of pills used add to the combined extractions:
- 50ml (1.69 liquid ounces) Xylene
10) Transfer the extraction mixture back to the empty solvent beaker and
place the beaker on the hotplate. Bring to a boil using the small fan to keep vapors
from accumulating. Boil until the solution reaches 105 C.
11) Using a clean funnel and filter paper filter off the pseudo HCL while the
solution is hot.
12) Rinse the pseudo HCL with a generous amount of MEK while in the funnel.
13) Remove filter and filter cake from funnel and allow to dry completely.
(no more MEK smell)
14) Weight and enjoy, yield should be between 80% to 90%
DO THIS EXACTLY AS WRITTEN AND IT WILL WORK.
NO SUBSTITUTIONS!!!!!
EDIT:EXTRACTION PROCEDURE:
Mix isopropyl alcohol(91 or 99%) with naphtha 50/50 and dry both solvents thoroughly with baked epsoms salts. Boil pills with this solution & remove from heat. Let sit for a while (30 to 60 minutes or more) Separate this solution from the rest of the pillstock & boil to 105 degrees celcius. At that time the pseudo will crash out of the naphtha & you can filter it with a #6 coffee filter in a 2 liter tea pitcher. Repeat until you've gotten 90% or better out. Each box of pills (48 60's or 96 30's) SHOULD net you 2.88g of pseudo for reference sake. BTW, the 120s only net you 2.4g.
This method is a modified version of VideoEditor's Straight to E.
RP:
heres what SWIM`s friend in the big city does.
take your 1000 matchbooks and remove the matches by opening the book and ripping out the matches and throwing them into a large box or bag or whatever. that will leave you with just the complete cover in your hand. you will get fast and efficiant at this with practise. be carefull during this stage, you dont want several hundred ripped out matches catching fire. dont have more than one book in your hand at a time. SWIM`s friend grabs ONE book flips it open holds it in left hand rips matches out, throws em in container next to him. he has seen people rip out matches drop em in there lap etc. and have 4 or 5 empty covers in left hand (which still contains the striker remember) and then next thing you know a book being ripped out accedently catches one of the strikers in left hand and WOOSH. if they are stacked in your lap you can imagine how bad it is. so one at a time only and dont stack em in your lap. when you are done you will have 1000 strike covers stacked on there sides minus the matches in the lil cardboard boxes the match books originly came in. 1000 usually fits in 2 of the boxes. next take your good sharp scissors med. size. (fiskars seem to be best in quality)now take ONE at a time and cut the short side off. SWIM`s friend grabs one cover in left hand holding in a way that theres 2 inchs or so of cover then the strike pad then a short inch or so of cover (the end where the staple was holding in matches) towards his right hand. cut off the short end right exactly on the line you dont want none of the paint/ink from the cover design with your strike pad. next cut it above the strike pad again exactly on the line. when you cut the strike pad off let it fall into a container by itself (SWIM`s friend uses one of the cardboard boxes that originly held 50 books) sure when you cut them you can cut 3 or 4 at a time but i will take the time to explain why you shoudnt. if you cut more than one at a time the others will move slightly underneath the top one and you will end up with part of the RP cut off on the bottom and part of the paint/ink left on the top of the pads the more you try and cut at once the more pronounced this effect will become towards the last one in the stack. try a few and you will see or better yet do it as SWIM is tellin you since he took the time to type all this shit out in about as laymens terms as he can lay it. like i said above with practise you will become very fast at this SWIM`s friend can do 1000 books in about 3 hours. now at this point you should have 1000 strike pads in front of you. SWIM`s friend in the big city now takes them and dumps them in a colander (one of those things you drain spaghetti in) bounce them around in there letting all the little pieces of paper cuttings and the little cardboard pellet looking things from where the staple went thru to hold the matchs in originly. you will see when they quit falling out of colander. now its time for the acetone soak:
PART 2:
if you are only doing a 1000 books take a quart jar the kind that the mouth is the same diameter as the jar. (skippys peanut butter jars work great)...(the necked down mouths work but its a little harder to get out your strike pads when they are done being soaked)put the pads in the jar fill with acetone to about 3 inchs above the pads. (( many say use dry tone (anhydrous) but SWIM`s friened thinks its a waste of dry tone since at the end the RP will be washed in DH2O (distilled water)anyways)) put the lid on shake the hell out of them after they have soaked an hour or so. let it settle for 30 min or so. now look at em you will see a layer of red powder goop on bottom of jar your pile of strike pads with blotchy patchs of RP left on them, and the tone will be maroon in color. take a clear piece of aquarium tubing put one end in the jar to a depth about 1/4 inch above the powder layer. siphon it off into a waste container dont bother filtering it cuz the stuff that is suspended in it isnt RP. its glue and shit. maybe a lil RP but not worth hassling with. refill with fresh tone and repeat. twice usually does it 3 times for sure.on the last time (when you see no more RP on pads)dont siphon off tone yet. SWIM`s friend uses stainless steel serving tongs to grab a small heap of pads swish them gently around in tone (making sure no clumps of RP are stuck in them) then remove them. repeat this untill all the strike pads you can see are removed. add a little bit more fresh tone and shake the shit up good let it set for a short. now you should have before you a one quart jar with a 1/4 inch or so of reddish/brownish goop/powder on the bottom and 2 to 4 inchs of medium to dark maroon tone. you will notice that no matter how long it sets the tone will not lighten up and still look as if it has some RP suspended in it. if it does its miniscule and not worth fuckin with. siphon the tone off into waste can again. pour a cup or so of warm DH2O into jar shake like hell let settle a few min. siphon it off and repeat four or five times. after that SWIM`s friend in the big city scoops it out with a plastic spoon into a small glass bowl and sets it on top of his monitor in the back where the lil holes are that vent the heat of the monitor. its usually dry in a couple hours. after that take the dry RP and put it in a jar and pour in muriatic acid to a couple inchs above the RP. bring it to a boil (outside of course)for 20 min er so and the rinse it with it DH2O untill youve ran at least a quart preferably a half gallon thru it. dry it TOTALLY and its ready to rock. another way that works is take the RP after its dry from the above described steps and put it in a 250 to 500 ml boiling flask. (or whatever is large enough to hold the amount you have and hold up to the LOW heat) for every 10 grams of RP put in 1/8 to 1/4 teaspoon of RD lye. add DH2O untill the RP is covered by a 2 or 3 inchs. put it on the hotplate (outside of course) and cook it for 2 hours on LOW LOW heat DO NOT let it boil and DO NOT let the water cook out as the lye will want to erupt if it gets to hot or runs low on water. the lye will cook out of the mix and the caustic nature of it will burn everything out of the RP that isnt RP. keep a close eye on the shit and add more DH2O as needed to keep the RP covered. wash it WELL with DH2O afterwards and you have about as clean RP as you can possibley get.
SWIM`s friend usually yeilds 7 to 10 grams (per 1000 books) of super clean RP this way. as its drying you should grab the bowl every once in awhile and gently mash up the large lumps as they are easier to mash up when its damp than when its bone dry. when hes done its all usually the size of pinheads and smaller. this may seem like a long difficult way to do it but trust me its not. the more you do it the faster you will get. typing all this seems more of a pain in the ass to SWIM than doin the matches lol... if you are gonna do more than a 1000 books do it in more jars or get a gallon jar no big deal. now SWIM hopes you two are happy and this was written in simple enough step by step laymans terms for you cuz its simple as SWIM can make it. SWIM would also suggest copying and savin this on your comp. so next time you see it asked you can copy it to the thread cuz SWIM wont do this again.good luck
Iodine Extraction:
Use per liter of 7% tinc 25 ml HCl (37%) (not critical, use some, use enough, a little more will not hurt.) add 500 ml water, add with stirring, one liter 3% H2O2
Or since you are american, a pint of tinc, a pint of peroxide, a cup of water and a shot glass of acid. Stir well, let it sit. Let it sit. Give it four hours at least.
Decant the fluid into another jar and rinse out the crystals in the bottom of the first jar real well, 5-6 times with lots of swirling. I filter through a piece of bedsheet and get all the crystals in there and mash real well, dry good, transfer to fresh coffee filters, put in a jar that has epsoms salts (dried) in the bottom, put a folder paper towel in, the sit the crystals on top. Try to dry the crystals as best you can to start..but come back and change the coffee filters after about four hours, the next day, etc...after two changes, the I2 is generally dry. If you react them still wet, use 1.5 gm instead of 1.2 and decrease the water in the reaction by 20%.
Leave the solution in the second jar, add about another 125 ml of peroxide and let sit until the next day. You will get another batch of crystals, up to 25% as much as before, usally about 10%.
Works fine. On a good batch you can get up to 50 gm of I2 from a pint. Usually you will get 43-46 gms. A lot better than the one ounce I used to get with three bottles of peroxide.
there you have it, the 3 steps to gathering your reagents for the E/RP/I2 reaction. copy it to your harddrive and all i ask is that you paste it into future threads where these 3 questions are asked instead of flaming the person or telling em to read and search. rarley will you see all 3 of these steps in one place so treasure it lol anyways special thanks to Geez for the I2 recipe and Video Editor for the straight to E extraction technique and to SWIM`s friend in the big city for the RP technique.
the old masters will prolly flame the shit out of me for posting this and making it easy. I dont give a fuck tho. I kno that all the old masters had to learn the hard expensive way of trial and error as I did but I dont see any reason to make it tough for others just cuz it was tough for me. so for those of you that are pissed all i can say is ... get over it and for those of you that this helps... rock on and good luck in your adventures
[This message has been edited by Wicked_Rain (edited 08-01-2003).]
here is another pill extraction technique that seems simpler and requires less chems:
Extraction Technique: Straight to Bee--The New Cure
A Universal Pill Extraction Technique
- Purpose -
SWIVE has only been doing free base reactions so his goal was to create a fast, clean method for producing psuedo free base from an ever changing array of pills. He believes this technique will accomplish just that. No pre washing, no soaking, no red removal. It's not a water less A/B in fact, it's just the B and thats why he calls it "Straight to Bee". It is totally OTC and uses activated carbon as a cleaning aide while exploiting the lazy characteristics of VM&P naptha. This method was written to be easily scalable. Average yield is 60% of very clean free base.
- Definitions -
In this write up SWIVE will use the phrase "for every box of pills used"
This stands for every box of 48 x 60mg, or 96 x 30mg, or 20 x 120mg.
In addition SWIVE will use the phrase "for every gram of total pill mass"
This stands for the total weight of the pills before grinding.
Text appearing in red denotes actions that should bee followed exactly for best results.
Text appearing in green denotes FAQS. (frequently asked questions)
- Materials -
One beaker or other heat proof glassware
(approximately 100ml for every box of pills used)
One erlenmeyer flask or other heat proof glassware
(approximately 100ml for every box of pills used)
One graduated cylinder 100-200ml or other liquid measuring device in ml
One pyrex pie plate (2 if more than 5 boxes are used)
Two 5" glass funnels or plastic fuel funnels
One 5" wire mesh kitchen strainer (dollar store type)
One 5ml baby medicine dropper
Charmin bath tissue (reg no scent)
Glass stirring rod or bamboo skewers
Clean coffee grinder
Hot plate
Small fan
Small scale weighing in grams
Safety glasses, latex gloves
Activated carbon, research grade (pets fart store)
Corn starch (supermarket)
Dry acetone - CH3COCH3 (dried with baked sodium carbonate)
Sodium carbonate - Na2CO3 (washing soda)
Sodium chloride - NaCl (salt)
Sodium hydroxide - NaOH (lye)
VM&P naptha - no substitutions (paint store)
(Do Not use colemans, pet ether, lighter fluid, etc.)
- Optional Materials -
Gassing setup if HCL salt is desired outcome
One Inflatable Lab Assistant
Six pack of Guinness
- Abstract of Procedure -
Combine Pills with activated carbon, NaCl, NaOH and Na2CO3.
Grind to a fine powder and sift through strainer.
Stir in acetone.
Add trace amount of water.
Mix until paste.
Add corn starch.
Mix until consistency of damp potting soil.
Dry completely.
Add naptha.
Heat to boiling while stirring.
Filter thru Charmin filter.
Repeat two times
Freeze filtrate.
Filter out crystals.
Convert to salt form if desired.
- Standard Procedure -
01) Weigh pills and record total weight.
02) Place pills into a clean coffee grinder.
03) For every box of pills used add:
- 2 grams of washing soda
- 2 grams of salt
- 4 grams of activated carbon
- 4 grams sodium hydroxide
What if it all won't fit in the coffee grinder? Process about 3 - 4 boxes at a time.
Why am I adding salt? To attract water and to act as an abrasive to aid in grinding.
Why am I adding washing soda? To act as a buffering agent.
After grinding the mixture becomes hot and doesn't sift well? Carbon sold for aquarium filtration may contain excess moisture. The moisture content will be apparent when the carbon is ground. Moist carbon will tend to cake on the side of the grinder, and will feel moist. If the carbon is moist, dry it before use by heating in an oven or microwave. Take precautions handling the heated carbon to avoid burns. Allow the carbon to cool before grinding or combining with other ingredients. Store any unused dried carbon in an air tight container.
04) Grind the mixture to a fine powder. Its important that we grind the mixture as fine and uniformly as possible, about the consistency of coarse flour.
05) Sift the mixture into the beaker using a wire mesh strainer placed inside a large funnel to minimize dusting. When grinding and sifting be careful with vents, fans and open windows so your pseudo doesn't blow away as dust. You also dont want to inhale NaOH or carbon dust. Let the dust settle in the coffee grinder before opening the lid.
06) For every gram of total pill mass add:
- 1.5ml dry acetone
This measurement will get you in the ball park. We want the mixture to be a liquid at this point, not a paste. Add more acetone in small increments as the mixture will go from stiff to fluid very quickly. Acetone used for this purpose should be dried before use, as the moisture content of acetone can vary over such a wide range that the only way to obtain consistent results it to dry the acetone before use.
07) For every box of pills used add while stirring:
- 3 drops DH2O (use the baby medicine dropper)
Why are we using dry acetone and then adding water? Since the amount of moisture present is critical for proper basing, and the water content of non-dried acetone is widely variable, the only way to accurately control the moisture available for basing is to dry the acetone first, then add a measured amount of water.
08) Stir with a glass rod for about 3 to 4 minutes. The mixture will slowly thicken to a wet paste.
09)For every box of pills used add:
- 1.0 gram corn starch
10) Stir for a few minutes. The mixture will become very stiff and the consistency of damp potting soil, with no signs of visible liquid. Add more cornstarch in very small increments if nessesary.
Why the cornstarch? The cornstarch is a great absorbent and helps to dry our mixture fast. When drying the cornstarch will keep our mixture from turning into hard little rocks and when powdered again keeps the mixture free flowing. It also will help absorb waxy gak when we extract our free base.
11) Spread out the mixture on the pie plate(s) and let dry completely. It will dry fast because the carbon has increased the surface area of our mixture.
12) When completely dry sift the mixture back into the beaker using the wire mesh strainer placed inside a large funnel.
13) For every box of pills used add: [blue]
- 35ml Naptha
14) Mix well. Then place the beaker on the hot plate set to med high heat. With constant gentle stirring, heat the mixture until boiling. Turn heat off and continue to stir for 1 minute. Remove from hot plate and set aside to let the solids settle out for a few minutes.
Isn't boiling naptha dangerous? Boiling any flammable solvent is an extremely dangerous practice. Solvents should not be heated over an open flame or on any apparatus that is capable of producing a spark. This includes defective or damaged electric hot plates. Adequate ventilation is required. This should not be done in a closed environment due to risk of explosion and/or fire and due to health concerns regarding inhalation of solvent fumes. The constant use of a fan positioned to blow across the solvent will disburse the vapor, reduce the risk of fire and explosion.
15) While waiting, make a charmin filter. Take 4 plys of charmin and fold three times to make a square. Fold that over once and then once again to make a quarter square. Completely wet the square with some clean naptha using the medicine dropper and place the pad into the bottom of funnel across the neck. The Charmin should not be "packed" or "compressed". Gently mold the edges around the contour of the funnel bottom. Wet it again with naptha and place this filter-funnel into the erlenmeyer flask.
16) Slowly decant the naptha into the funnel in small amounts and allow it to filter through the Charmin into the flask. Don't pour in more than can pass through the charmin in more or less real time. If you make a big puddle it may start to crystalize in the funnel clogging the filter. The filtered naptha should be crystal clear. Free base crystals will start to form in the filtrate. Set the flask aside.
17)[blue] For every box of pills used add:[blue]
- 20ml Naptha
18) Mix well. Then place the beaker on the hot plate set to med high heat. With constant gentle stirring, heat the mixture until boiling. Turn heat off and continue to stir for 1 minute. Remove from hot plate and set aside to let the solids settle out for a minute.
19) Slowly decant the naptha into the same filter-funnel in small amounts and allow it to filter through the Charmin into the flask combining filtrates. Don't pour in more than can pass through the charmin in more or less real time. Do not replace the charmin, continue to re-use the same pad.
20)[blue] For every box of pills used add:
- 10ml Naptha
21) Mix well. Then place the beaker on the hot plate set to med high heat. With constant gentle stirring, heat the mixture until boiling. Turn heat off and continue to stir for 1 minute. Remove from hot plate.
22)Slowly decant the naptha into the same filter-funnel in small amounts and allow it to filter through the Charmin into the flask combining filtrates. Then empty the entire contents of the beaker into the filter funnel and let drain.
23) While draining boil a small amount of naptha about 5 ml for every box of pills used. When all the liquid appears to have drained through, pour the boiling naptha over the filter cake and let it drain again. Then take a large spoon and press down on top of filter cake squeezing any remaining naptha into the flask.
Should I do a forth pull? You can try but tests have shown its usually not enough gain to justify the effort. Only do additional pulls if the end result is less than 45%
24) Place the erlenmeyer flask with the combined filtrate on the hot plate set to med high. Heat to boiling or until all crystals have re-dissolved. Pour the hot filtrate into clean pie plate(s).
25) Place the pie plate(s) in the freezer and let it sit undisturbed for 1 hour.
26) Remove the pie plate(s) from the freezer and pour off the used naptha filtering out free base crystals using a coffee filter. Let the collected free base crystals dry. Some crystals may adhere to the pie plate. Let them dry before removing.
27) WARNING: The remaining naptha does contain some additional pseudoephedrine free base. The pseudo available by titrating this naptha is known to contain contaminants, particularly polyethylene glycol. If you wish to titrate or gas to obtain this pseudo, you should be aware that it will require further cleaning by multiple recrystalizations. If you combine this pseudo with the freebase crystals in a reaction and have not cleaned them thoroughly by recrystalizations, you will contamination the reaction, your product will be contaminated, and your yield will suffer substantially.
28) If the HCL salt is the desired outcome, redissolve the free base crystals in fresh non polar solvent and gas or titrate. Do Not gas the original Naptha. If you gas the original naptha you will pick up unwanted contaminants. You may alternatively move the free base crystals into a small quantity of dH2O and add HCl drop wise with stirring until the free base crystals all dissolve. Evaporate over low heat until this alligators over, then flash with dry acetone. Filter the acetone and pseudoehphedrine HCL though a coffee filter, rinse with acetone, allow to dry.
- Calculating Yield -
When calculating your yield remember to adjust for free base.
Psuedo HCl is about 202gr per mole and psuedo free base is about 166gr per mole.
So 166 divided by 202 is a ratio of 0.82 So potential yield from 1 box of 120's
would be 20 x 120 x 0.82 = 1.9 grams free base vs 2.4 grams for psuedo HCL.
- Advantages and Disadvantages -
The technique should be, for the near future, virtually universal. It should successfully extract most pseudoephedrine pills. The materials are easily available and draw less attention than xylene and tolulene purchases. Yields should range in the sixty percent range. The pseudoephedrine so obtained will be very clean--characteristic of A/B extractions of pseudoephedrine. The main disadvantage is heating a flamable solvent.
- Acknowledgements -
Created in a dream by SWIVE. This would not of been possible without the fearless contributions of many bees and the invaluable database we call the Hive. A special thanks goes to the Geezmeister, MnkyBoy77 and Scottydog for donating their time, wisdom and valuable precursors to field test this technique.
Known to be effective with the following pills:
30 mg pseudoephedrine, Sudafed and Perrigo
Actifed
Perrigo 60 mg with tripolidine
Allerfrim
Sudafed 120 and 240 Time Release
Perrigo 120 Time Release
[This message has been edited by Wicked_Rain (edited 08-30-2003).]
[This message has been edited by Wicked_Rain (edited 08-30-2003).]
[This message has been edited by Wicked_Rain (edited 09-07-2003).]
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Jamiroquai
Regular
Posts: 1045
From: Common Sense
Registered: Jun 2001 posted 08-01-2003 04:30
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Wow! Wicked!!
Gots to give you props on your effort on your comprehensive post here Bro.
Concise and comprehensive minus the anal-retentive manerism so many folks tend to go off on a rant when posting such a thing as this above.
Kudos! And good effort!!
And yes folks this here thread is for informational purposes only so please keep your replies third person and on the theorectical.
hehe.....lol!!
Cheers!!.....and for all you do.....this Buds for you!
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Wicked_Rain
Regular
Posts: 1008
From: Stumbling Around in Alaska
Registered: Aug 2002 posted 08-01-2003 04:33
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thanks Jam means alot commin from a well respected member of several different forums
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stillbill
Regular
Posts: 252
From: East of the Rainbow
Registered: Feb 2003 posted 08-01-2003 14:21
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Excellent post Rain, Swiwr cuts thru the B.S.
and it's always good to have information from
an excellent source such as Swiwr!!!
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Wicked_Rain
Regular
Posts: 1008
From: Stumbling Around in Alaska
Registered: Aug 2002 posted 08-30-2003 01:26
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i am bumping this since another pill extraction technique has been added to the above post by SWIM it was added today, 8/29/03
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pikk
Regular
Posts: 261
From: usa
Registered: Mar 2003 posted 08-30-2003 01:38
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nice post bro .
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Wicked_Rain
Regular
Posts: 1008
From: Stumbling Around in Alaska
Registered: Aug 2002 posted 08-30-2003 01:44
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quote:
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Originally posted by pikk:
nice post bro .
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thanks pikk, you guys over at chemhead made most of it possible tho. so... thank you!!!
especially pikk, acidmelt, geez and videoeditor. just to name a few off the top of my head. im sure with my one brain cell i missed many that contributed greatly to the above methods but that makes me no less thankfull to you all.
[This message has been edited by Wicked_Rain (edited 08-30-2003).]
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iceicebaby
Member
Posts: 2
From: australia
Registered: Aug 2003 posted 08-30-2003 06:16
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quote:
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Originally posted by Wicked_Rain:
Neither the author of this post, nor this website or its owners advocate the use, manufacture or sale of any controlled substance. All posts are for information and entertainment purposes only, and should not be considered meaningful.
MANY OF YOU HAVE ALREADY READ THIS BUT DONT CLOSE IT OUT YET, SWIM HAS ADDED A NEW PILL EXTRACTION TECHNIQUE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE POST. IT WAS ADDED TODAY 8/29/03 SCROLL DOWN TO SEE IT. THANKS TO GEEZ OVER AT CHEMHEAD.
Psuedo Extraction:
SWIVE is back with a new twist for producing clean pseudo HCL in high yields from an ever changing array of pills. It's not only water less like Straight to B, its simpler with no A/B at all. Its Straight to E or straight to the extraction. It is a simple extraction method that will bypass most of todays modern adulterants and will return a very high yield of clean pseudo HCL. This can then be recrystallized or turned into free base to produce a pristine product. This method was written to be easily scalable and is very over the counter. Average yields have been 80% to 90% of clean pseudo HCL.
- Definitions -
In this write up SWIVE will use the phrase "for every box of pills used"
This stands for every box of 48 x 60mg, or 96 x 30mg, or 20 x 120mg or 10 x 240mg.
- Materials -
Three beakers or other heat proof glassware containers
(approximately 200ml for every box of pills used)
One elemeyer flask or other heat proof glassware container
(approximately 200ml for every box of pills used)
One graduated cylinder 100ml -200ml or other liquid measuring device in mls
Two 5" glass funnels or plastic fuel funnels
Filter Paper or coffee filters
Glass stirring rod or bamboo skewers
Hot plate
Small fan
Small scale weighing in grams
Safety glasses, latex gloves
Thermometer that is scaled to at least 120 C
- Solvents -
91% - 99% Isopropyl Alcohol (drug store)
MEK Methyl Ethyl Ketone (paint / hardware store)
VM&P Naptha - no substitutions (paint / hardware store)
(Do Not use Colemans, pet ether, lighter fluid, etc.)
Xylene (paint / hardware store)
- Drying Aids -
Oven dried Epsom Salts or Washing Soda (drug / food store)
Salt (food store)
- Abstract of Procedure -
Make extraction fluid.
Place whole pills into beaker.
Add extraction fluid.
Heat to boiling , stirring until pills dissolve
Filter while hot into elemeyer flask.
Repeat two times.
Return combined extractions to clean beaker.
Add Xylene
Heat to 105 (221 F) C to boil off alcohol.
Filter out pseudo HCL
Wash pseudo HCL with MEK and let dry.
- Standard Procedure -
01) For every box of pills used: combine the following solvents and
drying materials in a clean beaker and in the following order:
- 70ml (2.35 liquid ounces) Isopropyl Alcohol
- 70ml VM&P Naptha
- 02 grams of salt
- 04 grams of dried epsom salts or dried washing soda
02) Stir with a glass rod for a few minutes, then let settle for 10 minutes.
Depending on how much water was in the isopropyl alcohol to start with the
mixture will settle into 2 layers or 1 layer with damp solids at the bottom.
Why not use pre dried solvents to begin with? - that is perfectly ok if you have them,
but I have noticed that adding the isopropyl and naptha together almost always releases
some water no matter how dry they were ahead of time so I would not skip this step.
03) Filter this into the elemeyer flask leaving any solids or bottom liquid layer
behind and then transfer this solution into the second clean beaker.
04) Place whole pills in to the third clean beaker.
Why whole pills? Dont I need to grind them up first? - no we are trying to keep loss
to a minimum and grinding is not necessary as the isopropyl / naptha mixture will
dissolve them very well.
05) Pour 1/3 solvent mixture over pills.
06) Place the beaker on the hotplate and bring to a boil using
medium hi heat. Use the small fan to keep vapors from accumulating.
Stir occasionally with a glass rod until pills have dissolved into powder.
Let boil for 1-2 minutes
07) Place a funnel with filter paper in to the elemeyer flask.
Filter the solvent mixture while hot leaving as much of the solids
in the beaker as possible.
08) Return any solids to the beaker and repeat steps 5 through 7
two times combining the extractions in to the elemeyer flask.
09) For every box of pills used add to the combined extractions:
- 50ml (1.69 liquid ounces) Xylene
10) Transfer the extraction mixture back to the empty solvent beaker and
place the beaker on the hotplate. Bring to a boil using the small fan to keep vapors
from accumulating. Boil until the solution reaches 105 C.
11) Using a clean funnel and filter paper filter off the pseudo HCL while the
solution is hot.
12) Rinse the pseudo HCL with a generous amount of MEK while in the funnel.
13) Remove filter and filter cake from funnel and allow to dry completely.
(no more MEK smell)
14) Weight and enjoy, yield should be between 80% to 90%
DO THIS EXACTLY AS WRITTEN AND IT WILL WORK.
NO SUBSTITUTIONS!!!!!
EDIT:EXTRACTION PROCEDURE:
Mix isopropyl alcohol(91 or 99%) with naphtha 50/50 and dry both solvents thoroughly with baked epsoms salts. Boil pills with this solution & remove from heat. Let sit for a while (30 to 60 minutes or more) Separate this solution from the rest of the pillstock & boil to 105 degrees celcius. At that time the pseudo will crash out of the naphtha & you can filter it with a #6 coffee filter in a 2 liter tea pitcher. Repeat until you've gotten 90% or better out. Each box of pills (48 60's or 96 30's) SHOULD net you 2.88g of pseudo for reference sake. BTW, the 120s only net you 2.4g.
This method is a modified version of VideoEditor's Straight to E.
RP:
heres what SWIM`s friend in the big city does.
take your 1000 matchbooks and remove the matches by opening the book and ripping out the matches and throwing them into a large box or bag or whatever. that will leave you with just the complete cover in your hand. you will get fast and efficiant at this with practise. be carefull during this stage, you dont want several hundred ripped out matches catching fire. dont have more than one book in your hand at a time. SWIM`s friend grabs ONE book flips it open holds it in left hand rips matches out, throws em in container next to him. he has seen people rip out matches drop em in there lap etc. and have 4 or 5 empty covers in left hand (which still contains the striker remember) and then next thing you know a book being ripped out accedently catches one of the strikers in left hand and WOOSH. if they are stacked in your lap you can imagine how bad it is. so one at a time only and dont stack em in your lap. when you are done you will have 1000 strike covers stacked on there sides minus the matches in the lil cardboard boxes the match books originly came in. 1000 usually fits in 2 of the boxes. next take your good sharp scissors med. size. (fiskars seem to be best in quality)now take ONE at a time and cut the short side off. SWIM`s friend grabs one cover in left hand holding in a way that theres 2 inchs or so of cover then the strike pad then a short inch or so of cover (the end where the staple was holding in matches) towards his right hand. cut off the short end right exactly on the line you dont want none of the paint/ink from the cover design with your strike pad. next cut it above the strike pad again exactly on the line. when you cut the strike pad off let it fall into a container by itself (SWIM`s friend uses one of the cardboard boxes that originly held 50 books) sure when you cut them you can cut 3 or 4 at a time but i will take the time to explain why you shoudnt. if you cut more than one at a time the others will move slightly underneath the top one and you will end up with part of the RP cut off on the bottom and part of the paint/ink left on the top of the pads the more you try and cut at once the more pronounced this effect will become towards the last one in the stack. try a few and you will see or better yet do it as SWIM is tellin you since he took the time to type all this shit out in about as laymens terms as he can lay it. like i said above with practise you will become very fast at this SWIM`s friend can do 1000 books in about 3 hours. now at this point you should have 1000 strike pads in front of you. SWIM`s friend in the big city now takes them and dumps them in a colander (one of those things you drain spaghetti in) bounce them around in there letting all the little pieces of paper cuttings and the little cardboard pellet looking things from where the staple went thru to hold the matchs in originly. you will see when they quit falling out of colander. now its time for the acetone soak:
PART 2:
if you are only doing a 1000 books take a quart jar the kind that the mouth is the same diameter as the jar. (skippys peanut butter jars work great)...(the necked down mouths work but its a little harder to get out your strike pads when they are done being soaked)put the pads in the jar fill with acetone to about 3 inchs above the pads. (( many say use dry tone (anhydrous) but SWIM`s friened thinks its a waste of dry tone since at the end the RP will be washed in DH2O (distilled water)anyways)) put the lid on shake the hell out of them after they have soaked an hour or so. let it settle for 30 min or so. now look at em you will see a layer of red powder goop on bottom of jar your pile of strike pads with blotchy patchs of RP left on them, and the tone will be maroon in color. take a clear piece of aquarium tubing put one end in the jar to a depth about 1/4 inch above the powder layer. siphon it off into a waste container dont bother filtering it cuz the stuff that is suspended in it isnt RP. its glue and shit. maybe a lil RP but not worth hassling with. refill with fresh tone and repeat. twice usually does it 3 times for sure.on the last time (when you see no more RP on pads)dont siphon off tone yet. SWIM`s friend uses stainless steel serving tongs to grab a small heap of pads swish them gently around in tone (making sure no clumps of RP are stuck in them) then remove them. repeat this untill all the strike pads you can see are removed. add a little bit more fresh tone and shake the shit up good let it set for a short. now you should have before you a one quart jar with a 1/4 inch or so of reddish/brownish goop/powder on the bottom and 2 to 4 inchs of medium to dark maroon tone. you will notice that no matter how long it sets the tone will not lighten up and still look as if it has some RP suspended in it. if it does its miniscule and not worth fuckin with. siphon the tone off into waste can again. pour a cup or so of warm DH2O into jar shake like hell let settle a few min. siphon it off and repeat four or five times. after that SWIM`s friend in the big city scoops it out with a plastic spoon into a small glass bowl and sets it on top of his monitor in the back where the lil holes are that vent the heat of the monitor. its usually dry in a couple hours. SWIM`s friend usually yeilds 7 to 10 grams (per 1000 books) of super clean RP this way. as its drying you should grab the bowl every once in awhile and gently mash up the large lumps as they are easier to mash up when its damp than when its bone dry. when hes done its all usually the size of pinheads and smaller. this may seem like a long difficult way to do it but trust me its not. the more you do it the faster you will get. typing all this seems more of a pain in the ass to SWIM than doin the matches lol... if you are gonna do more than a 1000 books do it in more jars or get a gallon jar no big deal. now SWIM hopes you two are happy and this was written in simple enough step by step laymans terms for you cuz its simple as SWIM can make it. SWIM would also suggest copying and savin this on your comp. so next time you see it asked you can copy it to the thread cuz SWIM wont do this again.good luck
Iodine Extraction:
Use per liter of 7% tinc 25 ml HCl (37%) (not critical, use some, use enough, a little more will not hurt.) add 500 ml water, add with stirring, one liter 3% H2O2
Or since you are american, a pint of tinc, a pint of peroxide, a cup of water and a shot glass of acid. Stir well, let it sit. Let it sit. Give it four hours at least.
Decant the fluid into another jar and rinse out the crystals in the bottom of the first jar real well, 5-6 times with lots of swirling. I filter through a piece of bedsheet and get all the crystals in there and mash real well, dry good, transfer to fresh coffee filters, put in a jar that has epsoms salts (dried) in the bottom, put a folder paper towel in, the sit the crystals on top. Try to dry the crystals as best you can to start..but come back and change the coffee filters after about four hours, the next day, etc...after two changes, the I2 is generally dry. If you react them still wet, use 1.5 gm instead of 1.2 and decrease the water in the reaction by 20%.
Leave the solution in the second jar, add about another 125 ml of peroxide and let sit until the next day. You will get another batch of crystals, up to 25% as much as before, usally about 10%.
Works fine. On a good batch you can get up to 50 gm of I2 from a pint. Usually you will get 43-46 gms. A lot better than the one ounce I used to get with three bottles of peroxide.
there you have it, the 3 steps to gathering your reagents for the E/RP/I2 reaction. copy it to your harddrive and all i ask is that you paste it into future threads where these 3 questions are asked instead of flaming the person or telling em to read and search. rarley will you see all 3 of these steps in one place so treasure it lol anyways special thanks to Geez for the I2 recipe and Video Editor for the straight to E extraction technique and to SWIM`s friend in the big city for the RP technique.
the old masters will prolly flame the shit out of me for posting this and making it easy. I dont give a fuck tho. I kno that all the old masters had to learn the hard expensive way of trial and error as I did but I dont see any reason to make it tough for others just cuz it was tough for me. so for those of you that are pissed all i can say is ... get over it and for those of you that this helps... rock on and good luck in your adventures
[This message has been edited by Wicked_Rain (edited 08-01-2003).]
here is another pill extraction technique that seems simpler and requires less chems:
Extraction Technique: Straight to Bee--The New Cure
A Universal Pill Extraction Technique
- Purpose -
SWIVE has only been doing free base reactions so his goal was to create a fast, clean method for producing psuedo free base from an ever changing array of pills. He believes this technique will accomplish just that. No pre washing, no soaking, no red removal. It's not a water less A/B in fact, it's just the B and thats why he calls it "Straight to Bee". It is totally OTC and uses activated carbon as a cleaning aide while exploiting the lazy characteristics of VM&P naptha. This method was written to be easily scalable. Average yield is 60% of very clean free base.
- Definitions -
In this write up SWIVE will use the phrase "for every box of pills used"
This stands for every box of 48 x 60mg, or 96 x 30mg, or 20 x 120mg.
In addition SWIVE will use the phrase "for every gram of total pill mass"
This stands for the total weight of the pills before grinding.
Text appearing in red denotes actions that should bee followed exactly for best results.
Text appearing in green denotes FAQS. (frequently asked questions)
- Materials -
One beaker or other heat proof glassware
(approximately 100ml for every box of pills used)
One erlenmeyer flask or other heat proof glassware
(approximately 100ml for every box of pills used)
One graduated cylinder 100-200ml or other liquid measuring device in ml
One pyrex pie plate (2 if more than 5 boxes are used)
Two 5" glass funnels or plastic fuel funnels
One 5" wire mesh kitchen strainer (dollar store type)
One 5ml baby medicine dropper
Charmin bath tissue (reg no scent)
Glass stirring rod or bamboo skewers
Clean coffee grinder
Hot plate
Small fan
Small scale weighing in grams
Safety glasses, latex gloves
Activated carbon, research grade (pets fart store)
Corn starch (supermarket)
Dry acetone - CH3COCH3 (dried with baked sodium carbonate)
Sodium carbonate - Na2CO3 (washing soda)
Sodium chloride - NaCl (salt)
Sodium hydroxide - NaOH (lye)
VM&P naptha - no substitutions (paint store)
(Do Not use colemans, pet ether, lighter fluid, etc.)
- Optional Materials -
Gassing setup if HCL salt is desired outcome
One Inflatable Lab Assistant
Six pack of Guinness
- Abstract of Procedure -
Combine Pills with activated carbon, NaCl, NaOH and Na2CO3.
Grind to a fine powder and sift through strainer.
Stir in acetone.
Add trace amount of water.
Mix until paste.
Add corn starch.
Mix until consistency of damp potting soil.
Dry completely.
Add naptha.
Heat to boiling while stirring.
Filter thru Charmin filter.
Repeat two times
Freeze filtrate.
Filter out crystals.
Convert to salt form if desired.
- Standard Procedure -
01) Weigh pills and record total weight.
02) Place pills into a clean coffee grinder.
03) For every box of pills used add:
- 2 grams of washing soda
- 2 grams of salt
- 4 grams of activated carbon
- 4 grams sodium hydroxide
What if it all won't fit in the coffee grinder? Process about 3 - 4 boxes at a time.
Why am I adding salt? To attract water and to act as an abrasive to aid in grinding.
Why am I adding washing soda? To act as a buffering agent.
After grinding the mixture becomes hot and doesn't sift well? Carbon sold for aquarium filtration may contain excess moisture. The moisture content will be apparent when the carbon is ground. Moist carbon will tend to cake on the side of the grinder, and will feel moist. If the carbon is moist, dry it before use by heating in an oven or microwave. Take precautions handling the heated carbon to avoid burns. Allow the carbon to cool before grinding or combining with other ingredients. Store any unused dried carbon in an air tight container.
04) Grind the mixture to a fine powder. Its important that we grind the mixture as fine and uniformly as possible, about the consistency of coarse flour.
05) Sift the mixture into the beaker using a wire mesh strainer placed inside a large funnel to minimize dusting. When grinding and sifting be careful with vents, fans and open windows so your pseudo doesn't blow away as dust. You also dont want to inhale NaOH or carbon dust. Let the dust settle in the coffee grinder before opening the lid.
06) For every gram of total pill mass add:
- 1.5ml dry acetone
This measurement will get you in the ball park. We want the mixture to be a liquid at this point, not a paste. Add more acetone in small increments as the mixture will go from stiff to fluid very quickly. Acetone used for this purpose should be dried before use, as the moisture content of acetone can vary over such a wide range that the only way to obtain consistent results it to dry the acetone before use.
07) For every box of pills used add while stirring:
- 3 drops DH2O (use the baby medicine dropper)
Why are we using dry acetone and then adding water? Since the amount of moisture present is critical for proper basing, and the water content of non-dried acetone is widely variable, the only way to accurately control the moisture available for basing is to dry the acetone first, then add a measured amount of water.
08) Stir with a glass rod for about 3 to 4 minutes. The mixture will slowly thicken to a wet paste.
09)For every box of pills used add:
- 1.0 gram corn starch
10) Stir for a few minutes. The mixture will become very stiff and the consistency of damp potting soil, with no signs of visible liquid. Add more cornstarch in very small increments if nessesary.
Why the cornstarch? The cornstarch is a great absorbent and helps to dry our mixture fast. When drying the cornstarch will keep our mixture from turning into hard little rocks and when powdered again keeps the mixture free flowing. It also will help absorb waxy gak when we extract our free base.
11) Spread out the mixture on the pie plate(s) and let dry completely. It will dry fast because the carbon has increased the surface area of our mixture.
12) When completely dry sift the mixture back into the beaker using the wire mesh strainer placed inside a large funnel.
13) For every box of pills used add: [blue]
- 35ml Naptha
14) Mix well. Then place the beaker on the hot plate set to med high heat. With constant gentle stirring, heat the mixture until boiling. Turn heat off and continue to stir for 1 minute. Remove from hot plate and set aside to let the solids settle out for a few minutes.
Isn't boiling naptha dangerous? Boiling any flammable solvent is an extremely dangerous practice. Solvents should not be heated over an open flame or on any apparatus that is capable of producing a spark. This includes defective or damaged electric hot plates. Adequate ventilation is required. This should not be done in a closed environment due to risk of explosion and/or fire and due to health concerns regarding inhalation of solvent fumes. The constant use of a fan positioned to blow across the solvent will disburse the vapor, reduce the risk of fire and explosion.
15) While waiting, make a charmin filter. Take 4 plys of charmin and fold three times to make a square. Fold that over once and then once again to make a quarter square. Completely wet the square with some clean naptha using the medicine dropper and place the pad into the bottom of funnel across the neck. The Charmin should not be "packed" or "compressed". Gently mold the edges around the contour of the funnel bottom. Wet it again with naptha and place this filter-funnel into the erlenmeyer flask.
16) Slowly decant the naptha into the funnel in small amounts and allow it to filter through the Charmin into the flask. Don't pour in more than can pass through the charmin in more or less real time. If you make a big puddle it may start to crystalize in the funnel clogging the filter. The filtered naptha should be crystal clear. Free base crystals will start to form in the filtrate. Set the flask aside.
17)[blue] For every box of pills used add:[blue]
- 20ml Naptha
18) Mix well. Then place the beaker on the hot plate set to med high heat. With constant gentle stirring, heat the mixture until boiling. Turn heat off and continue to stir for 1 minute. Remove from hot plate and set aside to let the solids settle out for a minute.
19) Slowly decant the naptha into the same filter-funnel in small amounts and allow it to filter through the Charmin into the flask combining filtrates. Don't pour in more than can pass through the charmin in more or less real time. Do not replace the charmin, continue to re-use the same pad.
20)[blue] For every box of pills used add:
- 10ml Naptha
21) Mix well. Then place the beaker on the hot plate set to med high heat. With constant gentle stirring, heat the mixture until boiling. Turn heat off and continue to stir for 1 minute. Remove from hot plate.
22)Slowly decant the naptha into the same filter-funnel in small amounts and allow it to filter through the Charmin into the flask combining filtrates. Then empty the entire contents of the beaker into the filter funnel and let drain.
23) While draining boil a small amount of naptha about 5 ml for every box of pills used. When all the liquid appears to have drained through, pour the boiling naptha over the filter cake and let it drain again. Then take a large spoon and press down on top of filter cake squeezing any remaining naptha into the flask.
Should I do a forth pull? You can try but tests have shown its usually not enough gain to justify the effort. Only do additional pulls if the end result is less than 45%
24) Place the erlenmeyer flask with the combined filtrate on the hot plate set to med high. Heat to boiling or until all crystals have re-dissolved. Pour the hot filtrate into clean pie plate(s).
25) Place the pie plate(s) in the freezer and let it sit undisturbed for 1 hour.
26) Remove the pie plate(s) from the freezer and pour off the used naptha filtering out free base crystals using a coffee filter. Let the collected free base crystals dry. Some crystals may adhere to the pie plate. Let them dry before removing.
27) WARNING: The remaining naptha does contain some additional pseudoephedrine free base. The pseudo available by titrating this naptha is known to contain contaminants, particularly polyethylene glycol. If you wish to titrate or gas to obtain this pseudo, you should be aware that it will require further cleaning by multiple recrystalizations. If you combine this pseudo with the freebase crystals in a reaction and have not cleaned them thoroughly by recrystalizations, you will contamination the reaction, your product will be contaminated, and your yield will suffer substantially.
28) If the HCL salt is the desired outcome, redissolve the free base crystals in fresh non polar solvent and gas or titrate. Do Not gas the original Naptha. If you gas the original naptha you will pick up unwanted contaminants. You may alternatively move the free base crystals into a small quantity of dH2O and add HCl drop wise with stirring until the free base crystals all dissolve. Evaporate over low heat until this alligators over, then flash with dry acetone. Filter the acetone and pseudoehphedrine HCL though a coffee filter, rinse with acetone, allow to dry.
- Calculating Yield -
When calculating your yield remember to adjust for free base.
Psuedo HCl is about 202gr per mole and psuedo free base is about 166gr per mole.
So 166 divided by 202 is a ratio of 0.82 So potential yield from 1 box of 120's
would be 20 x 120 x 0.82 = 1.9 grams free base vs 2.4 grams for psuedo HCL.
- Advantages and Disadvantages -
The technique should be, for the near future, virtually universal. It should successfully extract most pseudoephedrine pills. The materials are easily available and draw less attention than xylene and tolulene purchases. Yields should range in the sixty percent range. The pseudoephedrine so obtained will be very clean--characteristic of A/B extractions of pseudoephedrine. The main disadvantage is heating a flamable solvent.
- Acknowledgements -
Created in a dream by SWIVE. This would not of been possible without the fearless contributions of many bees and the invaluable database we call the Hive. A special thanks goes to the Geezmeister, MnkyBoy77 and Scottydog for donating their time, wisdom and valuable precursors to field test this technique.
Known to be effective with the following pills:
30 mg pseudoephedrine, Sudafed and Perrigo
Actifed
Perrigo 60 mg with tripolidine
Allerfrim
Sudafed 120 and 240 Time Release
Perrigo 120 Time Release
from da dream libary,
rnx57
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2003-12-03, 02:53
