I heard you can extract pure sodium from table salt be heating it in a metel container that running electricity through it. Is this true? Any idias of how I could run electricity through it? And thoughts?

Sry about spelling



MO

Take a DC powersupply, and stick a wire from each pole into the molten solution.

But be warned, pure Na(s) is very reactive, and Cl2(g) is produced which is toxic

Wow those are exprensive any cheaper idias? something I can do with batteries or something? Jeez im such a r00k when it comes to science.. Please bear with me though evreyone has to start somewhere

thanks

mo

Too expensive? Maybe you can suck the Cl2 out, if you put a straw in the salt and suck hard enough! Then again, you might just get high blood pressure.

This procedure is very dangerous due to the fact that Cl2 and Na are both very reactive chemicals compared to their much more inert salt state.

If you want to extract these chemicals, expect to need good lab equipment that can handle the amount of electricity and required containment/extraction goals.

If sodium were extracted, it might react with the water you have the salt dissolved in... not sure on this.

Sodium is normally stored in kerosene or other mineral oil something... It reacts with the water in air, etc.

So, my bit is that this might be an OK small scale science experiment. However, if you're looking to gather a good amount of explosive sodium or poisonous chlorine... you should go buy some from a reliable source. You're likely to kill someone trying to electrolyze them out on your own if you don't have the right equipment and procedures.

why would one need Na when there is Li everywhere .

unless it is for something i dont know about .

if that is the case soory

This is not as easy as the stupid textfile leads on. You need a temperature of 800 degrees to melt the salt, or less if you add some Calcium chloride. Still beyond basic procedures. Oh you will also need a special cell a high amperage power source(plating supply or car battery) and an inert atmosphere.

You can also do this with sodium hydroxide at 300 degrees, but I'd strongly advise against it as molten lye is dangerous.

there is no easy way for a private citizen to get sodium especially if you are a kid.

What Tryptamine said - he's a pro.

Wait till you see the street lights on during the day. Now drive round till you find the guys that check the street lights. And/Or get one of the reddish light bulbs that you get on street corners (red light bulbs on street corners, never thought about that before) They are low pressure sodium bulbs about 50w, they have a long thin 'U' shaped inner tube with dimples on it. In the dimples are a silver/mercury looking bit. This is the sodium. Swim dunnos if it is clean or not. OK can Swim use a 12v truck battery charger or a DC stick welder (50volt, 10 to 150 amps) as a power source? I mean is all you need is Salt+ Electricity? too easy I think. Gotta try it!

too easy I think.....

rethink it before you try it. as tryp said u need an inert amosphere, you got one of those do ya,

PS wear ur freakin RUBBER sneakers kid.

RNX57

Was thinking about that RNX57. If Swims gotta welder he's gotta oxy/acetylene torch too. (Swim wanders around in the dark and trips over a crucible, stands up, balances himself on a argon bottle) He now fears that mad_cow might attempt something along this line- Don't! Hey RNX57 you're the only one who has entered in the Iodine test! Ta. What use has sodium anyway? Its not useable in the Birch. Swims not really interested in anything "illicit", but likes to test himself by achieving "tasks".

An Arc welder may be used, especially if ya modify it, and use the CO2 cannister to provide an inert (i think CO2 should be inert enough) or any other shielding gas to provide the inert enviroment above the molten substance. Get the substance molten to begin with. And instead of running to electricity through the stick or rod, and a ground on the metal to be welded, run the both the ground and the stick electrode into the molten salt.

That should work for DC welders, if memory serves me right they can provide a sufficient current to get half decent yields in quick time.

But I really wouldn't know as there are much better ways of going about this

Oh, Ok thanks for that, Swim understands the two poles thing, it would work better. Things are harder to procure here. Appropriate and adapt.Swim has memorys of a case hardening salt bath too. What else can sodium be used for? Ta

quote:What use has sodium anyway? Its not useable in the Birch.

Actually, the original Birch reduction does use sodium. Sodium is cheaper than lithium and easier to get when you don't have to cut open batteries for alkali metal.

Gray is right, Na is the real birch, while li is often substituted, and is not a true birch. Tryp would probably know what it's called when li is used instead of Na.

It's called an alkali metal reduction of benzylic alcohols, regargdless of use of Na or Li or even K.

if its li and not na its a benksinger (sp)

and not "birch" reaction--see rhodium

all semantics anyway--the process is the same

anyone ever actually try pottasium?

Why don't you just get some cesium and put it in your pocket or something...see what will happen then.

My chem teacher was telling me about this kid who put sodium in his pocket...haha pretty funny

[This message has been edited by Sil3ntWarrior (edited 12-20-2003).]

tryptamine

Moderator :"there is no easy way for a private citizen to get sodium especially if you are a kid."

sodium is easy to get...... http://www.elementalscientific.net/downloadcat.html

Just because you can get a catalog and see the item online doesn't mean that a 16 year old can just call them up and get it.

Since Swims seen sodium string.

Swims realised that sodium would be a good way to cool some of the copper/metal parts in power stations & switchyards since it would conduct power and cooling thru a radiator/heatsink setup. Swim hasn't picked up the crucible yet.

I know Bro I apologize for where I have

inadvertantly tresspassed on your behalf by my content of my offering for such as listed above my

character compells me to post this announcement for the

sake of you-my Peer tryp Jam.

O.k. A group hug everybody, you too Mad_owl, that wasn't hard was it?, Doesn't that feel better, We can all get along fine now, remember we are all in this togeather now kids.