Can any body tell me exactly what phenyl-2-propanone (P2P) is and how it is used in meth.

Post in Lab Tips.

Ask in Lab Tips, but they'll tell you to do your own research.

Dude.

Don't pollute our board with double-postedness!!

Jam.........----------->? !

Yeah dude....Ever hear of doing a search?

You're 86'ed buddy!

*grabs 'em by the ear and kicks 'em in the ass on the way out*

AND STAY OUT!!



[This message has been edited by LwaysTired (edited 11-06-2003).]

Wait, I think P2P is an a file sharing progam operated from 2 different computers and a centralized hub. I beleive it stands for Person-2-Person. Hope that helps

Always glad to help

quote:Originally posted by LwaysTired:

*grabs 'em by the ear and kicks 'em in the ass on the way out*

AND STAY OUT!!

[This message has been edited by LwaysTired (edited 11-06-2003).]

you bro´s kill me sometimes ..i tell u fellas u guyz alwayz make my day a little brighter...LOL

Its Peer-to-Peer sharing O.S Sparkle

P2P(phenyl-2-propene) is used to make biker meth(racemic-n-methyl-amphetamine HCL). As I recall, the principle behind it is to aminate the P2P with methylamine. That is then reduced with H2, and the resulting meth is then salted out with HCl. A chemical reaction bomb is usually used to perform such a synthasis.

MDP2P is substatuted for P2P is the MDMA synthasis, and NH3 is substituted for methylamine in the plain AMP synthasis. All the rest of the steps are the same. Rumor has it that some of the Dutch cooks in Europe use this method too. One month they could be making meth, the next E, and the next AMP. However, the European cooks like to salt the plain AMP out with H2SO4 in lue of HCl. The point being that the lab set up would be the same.

P2P (phenyl-2-propanone, phenylacetone) is basically the direct precursor to any N-alkylated amphetamines. If you look at the structure of methamphetamine, you'll see a ring, a zig zag line sticking off of the ring, and an CH2NH2 group on the second bend on that zig zag line. That ring is called a benzene or "phenyl" ring. It consists of 6 carbons joined in a circle (each corner or vortex represents one carbon atom). That zig zag line is called a propane chain. It consists of three carbons connectected in a chain, and once again each vortex is one carbon atom. That ring and propane chain is what you call an amphetamine "skeleton".

Now when you look at a chemical name, you may be confused by the terminology and numbers. However it's very simple. Lets look at the benzene ring for instance. It is six carbons in a ring. Each carbon is also a site in which atoms or groups of atoms can be stuck to, aka a bonding site. Each bonding site is numbered, starting from the right top carbon on the benzene molecule. This posistion is number 1. It goes all the way up to six starting from that site counter clockwise around the ring (so the top carbon is 2, left top is 3, bottom left is 4, etc). The propane chain is also organized like this. It starts from the carbon closest to the benzene ring, and goes up to three (basically from left to right, the way you read). Each vortex or carbon atom is joined by a line (if you were drawing or veiwing the structure in 2D, i.e. on paper), and each line represents a bond. One line means single bond, two is double bond and so on.

Now also a chemical name is made up of nothing but prefixes and suffixes that represent different atoms or groups of atoms put together. The numbers tell you where each group is joined. Example (p2p):

The correct chemical name for phenylacetone is 1-phenyl-2-propanone. Phenyl means there is a benzene ring, and since it comes first, then we base the rest of the molecule from that benzene ring. 2-propanone means that there is a propane chain (propan), and -one is the suffix for ketones, which is just a double bonded oxygen atom. So 1-phenyl-2-propanone means that you have a benzene ring, and the propane chain is connected to the first position (1-phenyl) or carbon on that ring, and the 2nd position or carbon on the propane chain (2-propan) contains a double bonded oxygen (one). Put it all together and you get 1-Phenyl-2-PropanOne (note capitalized letters), get it?

Now lets get into why P2P is such a great thing for making amphetamines. First it is nothing more than an amphetamine skeleton. Not only that, but that oxygen it carries is right smack on the second carbon. The second carbon is where the amine group belongs. So all you have to do is switch out that oxygen with an amine and you get an amphetamine!

Now ketones, when they contact amines (freebase ones in particular) form what you call an imine or schiff base. Basically, the oxygen gets broken off, and the amine takes it's place. Now there is a free floating oxygen radical, so the easiest thing for the newly formed amine to do is release two hydrogens from itself and join the oxygen forming H2O. So lets say we have a ketone where R=an amphetamine skeleton and the amine is basic ammonia or NH3.

R=O + NH3----->R=NH + H20

Now since that amine lost two of it's hydrogens, it is really unstable, and will usually end up reversing what you call the equilibrium of the reaction, so the water formed will start to react with the imine to make ketone and amine again.

R=NH + H2O----->R=O + NH3

Which is really written like this:

R=O + NH3<----->R=NH + H2O

So to make it stable the imine has to be reduced, by something called catalytic transfer hydrogenation (CTH), which is basically a method to add one hydrogen to the imine to stabilize it and make the desired amine:

2 R=NH + 1 H2----->2 R=NH2

So if R is an amphetamine skeletone, then at the first equation we have P2P, then it's reacted with ammonia to form the schiff base, which gets reduced to the amine, which in this scenario would be plain ol' amphetamine. The formation of the imine and CTH reduction are usually done in one step because of the unstability of the imine, so this process is generally reffered to as a reductive-amination (red.-admin.).

Now lets look at the red.-admin. of P2P with methylamine, with a classic internal CTH method, a dissolving metal type known as the Aluminum Amalgum. Aluminum metal is placed into an alcohol, and an amount of a mercury salt (usually done with mercurous or mercuric chlorides, but can also be done with something like mercuric nitrate as well) is added. Within minutes the aluminum starts taking on a greyish color, and start to bubble and create heat. This is the start of an active Al/Hg (short for aluminum amalgum). Usually, for methylated amphetamines, chemist will drip in a quantity of nitromethane racing feul from the hobby store (methanol, nitromethane, and a tiny bit of something like castor oil). Nitromethane is CH2NO2. Using it is clever because the Al/Hg will reduce nitro groups to amine groups, so CH2NO2 becomes CH2NH2, or methylamine. This way instead of making the methylamine ahead of time, it is made insitu. Then the P2P is driped in, the newly formed methylamine reacts to form the imine, and the imine gets reduced via Al/Hg also to form methamphetamine as the product (by the way, the chemical name for meth is 1-phenyl-2-methylaminopropane, or simply

2-phenylisopropylmethylamine, see if you can figure those out).

Now lets talk about chirality. The ring and chain are largely what you call aromatic. This means that the molecule is flat, and if drawn in 2D would go up and down and left and right. Now the amine group is what you call aliphatic. This means not flat, so if you were to draw it, it would have to be in 3D, as now it can go forwards or backwards, not just up, down, left, and right. When a structure is drawn on paper, it is drawn in 2D, so to represent forwards the molecule is shown to be joined by a triangle instead of a line. A solid triangle means that it is pointing toward you. A dotted triangle means that it is pointing away (SWIM thinks thats right but may have it backwards).

Now the amine on any amphetamine can point either way. One way is called a D or dextro isomer, and the other is called L or levo isomer (also called R and S). When dealing with amphetamine or methamphetamine, if the amine is pointing in the levo direction (l-meth or l-amph), it is inactive to the human body in a speedy drug way. In fact, methamphetamine is sold (or used to be sold) in Vick's inhalers. It says levmefamfetamine or something like that on the box, which is just a fancy way of spelling it so people don't get discuraged on buying the product becuase it actually contains meth. l-meth still makes a good decongestant, which is why it is used. Also thats why the classic "Vicks Inhaler" recipie for meth came about, but that method is nothing but extraction of useless l-meth.

Now d-amphetamine (dextroamphetamine, sound familiar?) or d-meth is the isomer that gives the infamous buzz.

When you make amines from a ketone like that, the amine pretty much has a 50% chance of bonding in l formation and 50% chance of d formation. So any amphetamine made from P2P will pretty much end up being a 50/50 mix of d and l isomers, or d,l-meth. When you have a mix of optical isomers such as above, the mix is called a racemate. So to say racemic meth means d,l-meth.

Now some people (including myself) would rather prefer the racemic buzz of meth over the pure isomer. It seems to be less potent by weight, but for some reason a little more euphoric in action. Plus the duration of the buzz is so much longer, as well as the comedown is a gentle all day thing. Pure d-meth, gets you jacked the fuck up and is very potent by wieght, however the duration is shorter, and comedown is like having a ton of bricks dropped on you.

Now when meth is made from something like pfed, this method is called stereospecific. The reason why is becuase pfed aint nothing but a meth molecule with a hydroxyl group (OH) attatched to the first carbon on the chain. Now pfed actually has two chiral centers, the amine and the OH group. Since we are removing the OH when reducing pfed however, that chiral center is eleminated. So pfed can exist in four different isomers, [l][l]-pfed, [d][l]-pfed, [d][d]-pfed, and [l][d]-pfed (first letter being hydroxyl group, second being the amine).

The reason why we call reduction of pfed stereo-specific is because the isomer we buy in cold pills has the amine pointing in dextro position, so when the OH is removed, you have nothing but d-meth left (in the real world, sometimes the d can rotate back to l, so even reduced pfed probably conatains some amount of l-meth).

Now when we look at an amphetamine like MDMA (XTC), we find that it's the levo isomer instead thats responsible for most of the affects. d-MDMA actually also produces some affects, but nothing worthwhile by it self. However, many people (once again including myself) have said that neither pure isomer can touch the "fire" of racemic MDMA.

We can look at another drug, methorphan. Dextromethorphan (DXM) is legal and sold OTC as a cough suppressant. Also in correct dosages it is a dissociative much similar to ketamine. However levomethorphan is a highly illegal narcotic. Interesting how chirality can make all the difference (even though it's still the same drug).

Swim never synthed any p2p as of yet.However hes tried some and there aint nothin like it(maybe lemon drop).if it was easy to make everybody wood be doin it.theres alot of good info at rhodiums web site on p2p.back in the day prope dope used to make swim capable of 6 hour sex marathons.you now what im sayin the kind of dope that makes you want to go build sumthing.

Madchemist, can you fly? Just kidding! You must be a Chem. teacher to know all that stuff. Excellent, intelligence rules!

quote:Originally posted by stillbill:

Madchemist, can you fly? Just kidding! You must be a Chem. teacher to know all that stuff. Excellent, intelligence rules!

SWIM agrees, madchemist is fuckin batman if you ask him. not only does he know his shit but is willin to take the time to post answers that most people wont even understand anyways. SWIM copys all his answering posts to a text file (encrypted of course) and then gos and researchs the words and ways in his posts. SWIM has also read his posts from other places and under his other nicname. this guy can take a coconut, a solo cup and two feet of bailing wire and build a space shuttle i think lol

quote:Originally posted by the meth god:

[B]Swim never synthed any p2p as of yet.However hes tried some and there aint nothin like it(maybe lemon drop)B]

Man-O-Man them were the daze!!!

Lemon Drop !! !!

Shit was unbelievable!!!

Lemon drop! Didn't think anybody remembered. Haven't heard that name mentioned for at least 10 years. That was bill's ole girlfriend, left and hasn't returned. Bill sobbing in the corner with a snotty handkerchief.

I'm only 26, but I had my share of P2P...

Anybody remember the people that had done it for years and years? Remember the incomprehensible, slurred-ass speech from the crooked-ass jaw and lack of teeth? Those were the good 'ol days! I remember having skitz-sores on both sides of the inside of my mouth, and drawing until I had sores on my fingers and couldn't hold a pencil anymore! I remember going to take a piss and having shriveled up balls and "little-dick" syndrome...but when it came time to fuck it was on like Ron Jeremy!

BUT...

The shit Swiss makes is pretty fuckin' good...and I don't look or sound like a tooth-less crooked-jawed junkie-hillbilly!

Its all about the bomb sparkle bomb sparkle bomb sparkle bomb sparkle bomb. Wait, what am I talking about?

madchemist it seems you know you're chemistry so i have a question can mdma be made from the precursor of meth hcl? alot of people on here say its impossible yet it has methamphetimine in mdma so i don't see how its not possible thanks

BTW hats off to you madchemist cuz you got your synth together

sutt...You are the most annoying pest in this forum. Are you fucking deaf? Or do you not know how to read? I could've swore you were flamed to a crisp...for asking that question. Not only here....at the hive, and wherever else you posted that stupid question. You must of inhaled too many 2liter fumes or something. The answer was something along the lines of..."what are you a complete fucking idiot?....it would be stupid to do try and do that, as that it would be an insignificant return." Don't hold me to the exact wording but....

[This message has been edited by LwaysTired (edited 11-14-2003).]

No, MDMA can only be made from 3,4-MD-P2P.

Well lets just see if Mad can fly. I have been trying and (I have been around the whole web block trying to find sites on the cold cook and nazi methood everyone is talking about theese sites where you can find receipes in detailed. Are they any???? If so where???? Thanks.

Sutt everything needed for a good size mdma lab can be found at http://www.ebay.com/

http://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/wacker.krv.htmlƒ

doing this to safrole oil will yeild the mdp2p.

http://www.rhodium.ws/clandestine/gonzo/index.htmlƒ

doing this to mdp2p will yeild mdma [aka XTC]

madchemist...excellent write-up. swim prefers the pa/sodium acetate/acetic anhydride reflux of p2p as opposed to the lead acetate/pa distillation.

should you ever care to discuss this, i can be found at wd.