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Laboratory Tips Safety proceedures, test reagents, drilling rubber stoppers, bending glass tubes, etc. Contributed to by chemists.

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 #1 
Old 2003-10-02, 17:26
Dr_Doom Dr_Doom is offline
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Default Potassium Perchlorate?

I read about a process where i needed to oxidize a certain chemical. The document i was reading used the example of potassium permangenate. I dont have any potassium permangenate but i do have some potassium perchlorate. I was wondering if i could substitute potassium perchlorate for potassium permangentate. The chemical formulas are the same except for manganese/chlorine. I imagine that i can and i guess i was wondering if anyone knows how much perchlorate i should use in relation to how much potassium permangenate i would have used
 #2 
Old 2003-10-02, 19:58
deadlycindy deadlycindy is offline
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Default Re: Potassium Perchlorate?

I can't imagine a chemical synth where the two are interchangeable. Especially if you're working with energetic materials. KMnO4 isn't difficult to obtain at all.
 #3 
Old 2003-10-02, 22:39
Dr_Doom Dr_Doom is offline
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Default Re: Potassium Perchlorate?

Where would I get some KMnO4? Are there any other oxidizers that i could use besides it? How about Barium peroxide? or ammonium perchlorate?
 #4 
Old 2003-10-02, 22:55
deadlycindy deadlycindy is offline
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Default Re: Potassium Perchlorate?

Google, motherfucker! Do you speak it?

j/k...I'm a little too hooked on Pulp Fiction.

Really, what exactly are you working on?
 #5 
Old 2003-10-03, 02:20
Random_Fool Random_Fool is offline
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Default Re: Potassium Perchlorate?

You could substitute another oxidizng agent into the equation, but your ratio's will be messed up, and there will be inherent risk of contamination of the final product.

Equation for the Reduction of Potassium Permanganate is:

MnO4(-)+8H(+ions)+5e = Mn(2+)+4H2O

in acidic solutions and

MnO4(-)+4H2O+3e = MnO2+4OH(-)

in basic solutions

while for Potassium Perchlorate (KClO4 by your definition) equation is

ClO4(-)+8H(+)+8e = Cl(-)+4H2O

in acidic solutions and

ClO4(-)+4H20+4e = Cl(-)+4OH(-)

in basic solutions

*note signs in brackets indicate charge*

Which mean after all the math is done, for every gram of KMnO4 in acidic solution you need to use approximetly 1.8g of KClO4, or for every gram of KMnO4 in Basic solution you need to use approximatly 1.5g of KClO4

Personally I would strongly suggest against replacing permanganate with perchlorate due to the production of Chlorine ions that could oxidize into Chlorine gas.
 #6 
Old 2003-10-03, 03:41
Dr_Doom Dr_Doom is offline
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Default Re: Potassium Perchlorate?

What about in neutral conditions? Does KClO4 even work in neutral conditions? If not exactly how would I create acidic/basic conditions?
 #7 
Old 2003-10-03, 03:43
Random_Fool Random_Fool is offline
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Default Re: Potassium Perchlorate?

In neutral pH it should react as in Acidic pH as it has a higher potential to occur. And to create the differing conditions is relatively simply, simply add an acid or base to your solution.
 #8 
Old 2003-10-03, 05:35
Gray Gray is offline
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Default Re: Potassium Perchlorate?

What makes you think that KClO4 can be substituted for KMnO4 in organic synthesis? The fact that they both end with "O4?" KMnO4 is much much more reactive than KClO4. This is why it is hazardous in pyrotechnics and useful in the lab. You can't run a Birch reduction in aqueous ammonia, substitute petroleum ether for diethyl ether in a Grignard, or substitute KClO4 for KMnO4 in an oxidation.
 
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