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| Laboratory Tips Safety proceedures, test reagents, drilling rubber stoppers, bending glass tubes, etc. Contributed to by chemists. |
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#1
 2003-10-02, 17:26
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Dr_Doom 
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Potassium Perchlorate?
I read about a process where i needed to oxidize a certain chemical. The document i was reading used the example of potassium permangenate. I dont have any potassium permangenate but i do have some potassium perchlorate. I was wondering if i could substitute potassium perchlorate for potassium permangentate. The chemical formulas are the same except for manganese/chlorine. I imagine that i can and i guess i was wondering if anyone knows how much perchlorate i should use in relation to how much potassium permangenate i would have used
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#2
 2003-10-02, 19:58
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deadlycindy 
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Re: Potassium Perchlorate?
I can't imagine a chemical synth where the two are interchangeable. Especially if you're working with energetic materials. KMnO4 isn't difficult to obtain at all.
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#3
 2003-10-02, 22:39
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Dr_Doom 
Regular
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Re: Potassium Perchlorate?
Where would I get some KMnO4? Are there any other oxidizers that i could use besides it? How about Barium peroxide? or ammonium perchlorate?
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#4
 2003-10-02, 22:55
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deadlycindy 
Regular
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Re: Potassium Perchlorate?
Google, motherfucker! Do you speak it?
j/k...I'm a little too hooked on Pulp Fiction.
Really, what exactly are you working on?
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#5
 2003-10-03, 02:20
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Random_Fool 
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Re: Potassium Perchlorate?
You could substitute another oxidizng agent into the equation, but your ratio's will be messed up, and there will be inherent risk of contamination of the final product.
Equation for the Reduction of Potassium Permanganate is:
MnO4(-)+8H(+ions)+5e = Mn(2+)+4H2O
in acidic solutions and
MnO4(-)+4H2O+3e = MnO2+4OH(-)
in basic solutions
while for Potassium Perchlorate (KClO4 by your definition) equation is
ClO4(-)+8H(+)+8e = Cl(-)+4H2O
in acidic solutions and
ClO4(-)+4H20+4e = Cl(-)+4OH(-)
in basic solutions
*note signs in brackets indicate charge*
Which mean after all the math is done, for every gram of KMnO4 in acidic solution you need to use approximetly 1.8g of KClO4, or for every gram of KMnO4 in Basic solution you need to use approximatly 1.5g of KClO4
Personally I would strongly suggest against replacing permanganate with perchlorate due to the production of Chlorine ions that could oxidize into Chlorine gas.
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#6
 2003-10-03, 03:41
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Dr_Doom 
Regular
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Re: Potassium Perchlorate?
What about in neutral conditions? Does KClO4 even work in neutral conditions? If not exactly how would I create acidic/basic conditions?
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#7
 2003-10-03, 03:43
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Random_Fool 
Regular
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Re: Potassium Perchlorate?
In neutral pH it should react as in Acidic pH as it has a higher potential to occur. And to create the differing conditions is relatively simply, simply add an acid or base to your solution.
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#8
 2003-10-03, 05:35
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Gray 
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Re: Potassium Perchlorate?
What makes you think that KClO4 can be substituted for KMnO4 in organic synthesis? The fact that they both end with "O4?" KMnO4 is much much more reactive than KClO4. This is why it is hazardous in pyrotechnics and useful in the lab. You can't run a Birch reduction in aqueous ammonia, substitute petroleum ether for diethyl ether in a Grignard, or substitute KClO4 for KMnO4 in an oxidation.
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