ok i really need all of you brothers help now i've been reading all well most threads for about four or five months now about annie birch i need you bro's help if swim was about to attempt the birch what would you look out for or the do's and don'ts now i know this shit is dangerous that's why im asking these questions to look into it some more swim will attemp this in a few weeks for the first time so i'm really doing as much searching as i can i'd appreciate all help from the ones who knows and has experience in this area please...thank you brother's & sista's...PEACE

lets say you have your a/b out the way and your ephedrine is in your hexane and is in a nice squeezee bottle with hose--your sodium metal is cut into match stick size peices and in a bowl of hexane---your quenching water is in its squeezee bottle(you quench to fast, your gonna wear ammonia)---your hose and rubber stopper are in place--the stirring bar coming down off rubber stopper is clean---bottle is marked to show wanted ammonia level--your bottle is hanging in a bowl shaped net hung from a rafter and has the desired level of ammonia in it(of course your put in 3 large marble to stop bumping and help stirring when you spin the bottle in its net)---you dont drop that sodium in to fast--and you dont squirt in that ephy/heaxane to quick(no matter how good you are ,one day your going to squirt in to much and you will have a volcano spitting ammonia and your goodies at you)--you dont spin that bottle to quick,watch the stirring bar inside ---always make sure during reduction you can see some blue --if no blue add match stick of sodium---if you must uncork to add sodium or quench then let sit for 30 secs untouched---after reduction is finished sit in bucket of room temp water,,then over ten mins increase temp to hot water---wash stopper hose with hexane to get the goodies spat up there--(hose running straight up and down lets it flow back in)--wash bottle after pouring goodies out with hexane and pour into gassing beaker with goodies--when your adding everything to the ammonia and spinning it,,be carefull but assertive, this isnt for the faint hearted, take command of it and conquer,,goodluck

hexane what the fuck ??? dont soak your sodo in anything befor the birch it does not do a thing...

if i were you i would keep my strips in campfuel or any white gass..

and crash did we not go through this like 2 months ago

Crash....I don't wanna see you crash an burn bro. Maybe you ought to take a look over some of this->

>https://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/birch.notes.html

Be CAREFULL!!

hexane is the solvent i use in the A/B--then i keep the psuedo in hexane and squirt both hexane and the psuedo into the ammonia---this has worked for friends for many many years giving excellent results---as does keeping your cut to length sodium in hexane before the reduction--pikk,,rather than say DONT DO something,,try just saying what you do and let the guy decide himself

[QUOTE]Originally posted by pikk:

hexane what the fuck ??? dont soak your sodo in anything befor the birch it does not do a thing...

if i were you i would keep my strips in campfuel or any white gass..

and crash did we not go through this like 2 months ago[/QUOTE

hey pikk sorry bro i know i asked something similar to this a few months ago bro but since then there's been a few things that were not mentioned on the posts that i got back that are beeing posted on chemhead2 and like i said swim is prob. doing the birch in a few and im just gathering anything that might have been left out..

one thing i'm in doubt about is that when u gas what type of acid do u use is that sulphuric acid or sulfuric acid or is that the same thing??another doubt is:is it necesary for the container with the annie to be put on dry ice i understand that its ment so the ammonia wont evaporate as fast right but isnt that what u want for the ammonia to evaporate...

and again pikk and anyone else that im bothering from my posts sorry but i thought this is what all this was all about when in doubt to ask...peace

even though you asked pikk i thought id answer,,sulphuric is the same as sulfuric (sulfuric is just spelt wrong)---i dont think it has to do with the evaporation rate of the ammonia,,its to do with, that the reaction is more successfull when done at below -33c--ive never used dry ice, just decanted a 100ml more of ammonia than i need and let it sit for ten mins and ice up which has always given me a fine result---goodluck

no kirby i actually wasn't just asking pikk i was asking anybody that could answer which by the way thank you for clarifying that thank u brother

Hey CrashnBurn, hope u get this annie going!

Lot of work, but sure things will work out.

Peace and good luck bro!

gloves and goggles during reaction

ok thank u for ur info brothers very much appreciated and yes ill need every luck i can get and all the advice thanks again bro's

friends use sulphuric acid98% dripping onto hydrochloric acid34%,,,they have two jars,,the sulphuric jar is higher than the hydrochloric jar(so when started it works on drip feed),,they have a hose(600mm length) from bottom of sulphuric jar to the top of the hydrochloric jar,,,they have another hose, top of sulphuric jar to blow start the drip feed(400mm length),,,they have 1 hose(300mm length) from top of hydrochloric jar to heavy walled 6mm dia glass tube(300mm length)--this hose/glass tubing is for immersion into solvent for gassing meth---to get it started; they blow on the blow pipe of the sulphuric acid,,this increases pressure in sulphuric jar forcing acid to flow down the hose into the hydrochloric jar,,when dripping is seen into hydrochloric jar blowing is stopped and drip feed is allowed,,when heavy smoke begins to appear out of glass pipe, pipe is immersed in meth solvent and gassing is commenced---all hose is 6mm od clear soft hose--jars are whatever you have but must be airtight--only place 100ml of sulphuric acid into sulphuric jar,,and 50ml of hydrochloric acid into hydrochloric jar---when smoking stops replace hydrochloric acid in jar--when using this system make sure its done in a windy or well ventilated area with fan as this gas is toxic

This is a pristine way of gassing a solution but I ve got a question, there is so much

controversy about moisture failing a gassing

apparatus, is this sulphuric/hydrochloric

way of gassing free of moisture, other than the hydrogen chloride being in water is it free of other moisture when gas emerges.

using the aforementioned way has never had a problem with water,,,the only possible water inclusion would have to be undried solvent---chloride is an additive to water i think--it isnt in water condensed from the atmosphere

quote:Originally posted by kirby:

friends use sulphuric acid98% dripping onto hydrochloric acid34%,,,they have two jars,,the sulphuric jar is higher than the hydrochloric jar(so when started it works on drip feed),,they have a hose(600mm length) from bottom of sulphuric jar to the top of the hydrochloric jar,,,they have another hose, top of sulphuric jar to blow start the drip feed(400mm length),,,they have 1 hose(300mm length) from top of hydrochloric jar to heavy walled 6mm dia glass tube(300mm length)--this hose/glass tubing is for immersion into solvent for gassing meth---to get it started; they blow on the blow pipe of the sulphuric acid,,this increases pressure in sulphuric jar forcing acid to flow down the hose into the hydrochloric jar,,when dripping is seen into hydrochloric jar blowing is stopped and drip feed is allowed,,when heavy smoke begins to appear out of glass pipe, pipe is immersed in meth solvent and gassing is commenced---all hose is 6mm od clear soft hose--jars are whatever you have but must be airtight--only place 100ml of sulphuric acid into sulphuric jar,,and 50ml of hydrochloric acid into hydrochloric jar---when smoking stops replace hydrochloric acid in jar--when using this system make sure its done in a windy or well ventilated area with fan as this gas is toxic

hey kirby cant it just be both put in one container instead of doing the 2 bottle deal or will it react violent...

and if swim had a tank of annie isnt there something that could release the pressure out of the tank or regulate the pressure enough to where it just flows out with out the pressure??

if you were to have them in the one jar then as they were joined it would be either explosive or the gas would form to quickly and be gone in 15 secs---thats why the drip feed,,,it gives a measured dose of gas over an extended period-----Q2,,could you release the pressure in an annie tank and just pour it out,,yeah i spose so, but it wouldnt help with the fumes much cause as it evaporates it gives off fumes so it would be toxic wether under pressure or not,,and when sealed again it would build up pressure so youd have to repeat the unsealing every time you wished to use it,,,all in all its something youd want to avoid, have you tried just turning the bottle upside down,,opening the valve,,and just letting it trickle feed into your reaction vessel

whoa crash i did not mean that the way it came out . if in doubt always ask man . for this i am sorry bro

and kirby you are right but i have done it your way only using meoh and i dont see the reason for it. just the waste of solovents...

as for gassing i like your way kirb . but i belive that using 93% to 99%sulf. with salt is way eaiser and alot less dangorus.

crash the reason i put my rxn vessal . is that it just seams to make swips rxn go smoother it also slows down the rxn . and to kill the pressure in the tank you need to drop the temp to 0 deg then there will be no pressure in the tank.



[This message has been edited by pikk (edited 09-02-2003).]

[This message has been edited by pikk (edited 09-02-2003).]

Wouldn't it be much easier to just put some uniodized salt in a 2liter and pour in a little professional strength drano? run an aquarium hose from cap of 2 liter to shit. nice slow bubble. just shake it side to side a little

yeah probably,,,but i like my way

Crash, if ur not gonna chill your annie tank the only choice is to turn it upside down, some say on its side and open valve SLOWLY, have a braided hose with a ss connector on end to hook annie tank to aid in getting a flow f liq from tank to rxn vessel.

not cutting kirby at all as swiK is considered a friend but to make it as simple and quick as possible swirl agrees with swiP bout the SA and salt as a smoke generater. this is all swirl has ever used in all time birching.

LATER !!!! !!!!!!

yeah o.k i think ill go with the sulfuric acid and the salt it seems the less chemicals involved the better for me cause it seems if you want chemicals down here its only by bulk or tank and i dont see myself buying a hole talk of hci and if you can get the tank cold enough will you still have to deal with the fumes or is there a way to control if not eliminate is it better to do the birch indoors or outdoor??and thanks again bro's for taking the time to give me a little schooling...peace

friends use a heavy walled 4litre beer brewing bottle with rubber stopper and 20foot of hose,,,,best do it outside but away from neighbours,,a windy day is best,,so is a second story balcony,,there is a way to eliminate the annie fumes but friends dont do it,,something like running the fumes through a bath with hcl in it--im sure someone will tell you,,and yes, no matter how cold the reaction vessel your still going to get fumes