I'd just like to clear up something which I see a lot on this group.

There is a lot of talk about using ephedrine and not peusdoephedrine in meth synths to gain a better product.

THIS IS A MYTH

Read here: http://www.yarchive.net/med/ephedrine.html

I quote:

quote:The -OH group on the beta carbon of both ephedrine and pseudoephedrine can (with some effort) be reduced to a hydrogen, yielding (in both cases) d-methamphetamine, the most desirable methamphetamine isomer.

Have fun

Synth



[This message has been edited by Synthorcist (edited 08-28-2003).]

so how come the boys are still getting a great result with ephedrine hydrochloride???

So, what are you saying?

Here is what I want to do. I simply want to make some basic shit that can be snorted to produce a simple high. Something for a friday night. I am NOT going to birch anything (I do not have the patience to sit and scrape matchbooks) SO, if I CLEAN the ephedrine of the gak by an a/b will I get what I want? OR should I not clean it at all and simply snort the crushed up pills? Opinions? Perhaps I could make Cat?

WannaBe

Because most of the ephedrine HCl aquired is a lot less polluted by binders and colouring than the pseudo that people extract from OTC pills...

Synth

quote:Originally posted by WannaBeChemHead2:

So, what are you saying?



I'm saying that if you have 1g of ephedrine HCl, it will produce the same ammount and quality of meth as 1g of pseudoephedrine HCl.

Synth

yes ive heard that many times---a few long term cooks think psuedo gives a better high--im still undecided

There is of course another chiral centre on the alpha carbon which, depending on how the original pseudo/ephedrine was made, will yield levo or dextro meth, so that may be the issue.

As there are two centres, there are essentially 4 kinds of ephedrine.

Synth



[This message has been edited by Synthorcist (edited 08-28-2003).]

Fighting is not getting me anywhere. It is certainly not getting anyone high.

So I ask my question again...

If I get the goo out of my newly purchased ephedrine and A/B it, will I produce something that can be somewhat recreational? AGAIN, I do not have the patience, the time, or the ability to cook utilizing rp/i or the white buffalos of Iowa from which to steal AA. I will not go purchase hundreds of solvents and look like someone who is trying to do exactly what I am trying to do. So, what'll it be fellas? Am I wasting my time?

WannBe

How do you get psuedo or ephedrine to form the d-isomer without doing a Phrack rxn to the precurser base? Doesnt the isomar stay the same throughout, with all the standard reduction methods?

Wake up and learn some chemistry!

The d/l isomerisation of the meth is due to the chirality of methyl group on the alpha carbon.

The pseudo/non-pseudo of the ephedrine is due to the chirality of the hydroxl group on the beta carbon!

Generally avaiable pseudo and non-pseudo ephedrine are going to be racemic around the alpha chiral centre.

So, err... yes is the answer...

As for what 'WannaBeChemhead2' posted:

This is not what this thread is about. Go back to your own thread on that subject.

Synth

[This message has been edited by Synthorcist (edited 08-29-2003).]

quote:Originally posted by Synthorcist:

Wake up and learn some chemistry!]

Im trying to...

Sorry...

Ok simple as it goes...

Consider the ephedrine molecule as a 3d structure.

Look at the ring, then at the arm heading away from the ring.

The first carbon away from the ring is the 'beta' carbon. Consider 4 bonds onto the carbon. One goes onto the ring, one goes onto the next carbon, and the other two stick out sideways. One links to an OH, one to an H. It is the direction (left or right) of the OH which decides whether it is pseudo or nonb-pseudo.

The second carbon is the 'alpha'. It has 4 bonds. One back to the 'beta'. One onto the amine (NH) group, and the other two goto an H and a methyl (CH3) group. The direction of the CH3 decides the d or l of the final meth.

When the ephedrine is reduced to meth, the OH on the beta carbon becomes an H. So, H to the left, H to the right... Doesn't matter there is no longer any chirality (handedness)

But, the meth retains the d/l isomerisation of the original ephedrine.

Synth

You sound like a super intelligent person. Why didn't you do anything with that intelligence besides sitting on a computer all day telling people about the intricacies of crystal meth production. I'll bet you were one of those kids in school that the teachers always said, "He would be really good if he only applied himself." I wasn't being rude, so there was not need for you to be. I was simply asking something of someone who knows more than I do. Thanks for your prompt reply. So, go back to your basement and I'll go back to my post.