just a thought... anny is not the easiest thing to come by... and i have been using it for some time now...but i was recently studing why anhydrous is key... and found that it really isn't... its the cold that one wants...and that freon can be substituted for anhydrous... now if its just the cold and its boiling point is 33 deg C... then would anything else that gets to that low of temp work as well??? anyone know what the temp of canned air is... you know that spray crap used for computer cleaning?

hmmm would anyone try this and tell me...i am on vacation from the dream...or else i would do myself...

many have asked that--and the consensus of opinion is freon wont work--nor R12--liquid helium works from all reports--and a number of others ---search for solvated electrons on your search engine and it will give you what they are--and from memory of my own reading there was alot more to it that just temprature--goodluck

hi angel--just some thoughts on your question: what is the temp of canned air....---the temp of canned air is ambient(the same as the enviroment it is in)--when you finsh a dive and go into a decompression chamber, they pump in gas to increase the pressure to first decompression stop (wether that be 110feet through to 10feet)this gas pumped in is quite warm(lovely after a long cold dive)and it is warm because pressure= temperature----increasing pressure will increase temperature--stop increasing and the temperature will fall back slowly to ambient----the reverse is true--let the gas, under pressure, escape rapidly and there is a sudden decrease in temperature---pressure going in creates heat--pressure going out creates cold--it isnt stored at that temp--its created by movement---hope that helps angel---good luck

ohh...ok....well i didn't mean O2 canned air... i meant that crap that is used for like keyboard cleaning...i don't have any on hand so i cant' tell you what the chems used in it are... but i do know that what ever it is, it gets you really high if you take a lungfull of it also it causes really bad frost bite when sprayed directly onto skin...

hmmm... dunno how cold that is...but that is the reason i have been considering it..

let me see if i can find the specs somewhere..

l8rs

to get a substance to change states---ie: go from a liquid to a gas---must be cooled before stored under pressure----but most are stored under pressure at ambient temp and only the release of this gas creates the drop in temp

ok... one form of this spray is "pc-duster"

here are the specs... it seems that it just may be possible to get it to 'melt' lith, but you say freon is no substitute...hmmmm any way... check it out... this is the msds on pc-duster...

Proprietary: NO

Ingredient: CHLORODIFLUOROMETHANE, FREON 22, MONOCHLORODIFLUOROMETHANE

Ingredient Sequence Number: 01

Percent: 100

NIOSH (RTECS) Number: PA6390000

CAS Number: 75-45-6

OSHA PEL: 1000 PPM

ACGIH TLV: 3540 MG/CUM

Other Recommended Limit: 1000 PPM

================================================== =========================

Physical/Chemical Characteristics

================================================== =========================

Appearance And Odor: CLEAR, LIQUIDFIED GAS W/SLIGHT ETHEREAL ODOR

Boiling Point: -41.4F

Vapor Pressure (MM Hg/70 F): 151

Vapor Density (Air=1): 3.03

Specific Gravity: 1.194

Solubility In Water: SLIGHT

Percent Volatiles By Volume: 100

Reactivity Data

================================================== =========================

Stability: YES

Cond To Avoid (Stability): HIGH TEMPERATURES (OPEN FLAME, GLOWING METAL

SURFACES, ETC)

Materials To Avoid: ALKALI OR ALKALINE EARTH METALS, POWDERED ALUMINUM,

ZINC, BERYLLIUM, ETC.

Hazardous Decomp Products: HYDROCHLORIC & HYDROFLUORIC ACIDS, POSSIBLY

CARBONYL HALIDES

Hazardous Poly Occur: NO



[This message has been edited by angelstruth (edited 08-09-2003).]

sorry miss angel--i dont know if it would disolve sodium/lithium--but it sure doesnt look cost effective if it did

NO!!

Angelstruth is a bullshitting spammer sent to piss me off.

It is the ammonia that one is after, not the temperature. A nonpolar Cloroflourocarbon will not solvate electrons from the lithium nor will the lithium dissolve nor will it reduce anything but the balance in your bank account!!

Helium will not work either!

You are wasting the envirionment, but more importantly your time and money!

You need ethylenediamine, ammonia, diethylamine, methylamine, ethylamine, or anything similar. Unfortunately these things are all expensive, difficult to source or are more suspicious than ammonia itself.

well tryp---dont let her piss you off--call her for what she/it is ---inform us all of the accuracy of her words(like you have done)--and just ignore the thing, relax, lifes to damn short to take these things to heart---grab a beer, kick back and watch the cricket

truly i did not mean to cause anyone harm by asking...

i simply read recently that it was the temp of anny that achived the desired affect... http://www.totse.com/en/drugs/speedy_drugs/166324.html... i was simply asking if it was the temp that was needed why not try something else with the same desired temp...or close to it... something a little easier to get...

again i am sorry if what i am asking pisses anyone off... i agree cfc's should be kept to a min...considering... what i do, i do for me... i do not wish to ruin anyones life or atmosphere but just further myself and knowledge...

i do want to thank you for your input though...some of those things are easier for one like myself to get... pissing off farmers was never something that i would call a game...



[This message has been edited by angelstruth (edited 08-09-2003).]

no problem miss angel,im sure your very welcome in this forum---its a bit of an unwritten rule, that if you, yourself, have not done the synthesis/idea/hypothesis that you write of, then you state at the end of your post that it is untested/untried by you---god bless

quote:Originally posted by tryptamine:

NO!!

Angelstruth is a bullshitting spammer sent to piss me off.

It is the ammonia that one is after, not the temperature. A nonpolar Cloroflourocarbon will not solvate electrons from the lithium nor will the lithium dissolve nor will it reduce anything but the balance in your bank account!!

Helium will not work either!

You are wasting the envirionment, but more importantly your time and money!

You need ethylenediamine, ammonia, diethylamine, methylamine, ethylamine, or anything similar. Unfortunately these things are all expensive, difficult to source or are more suspicious than ammonia itself.

No offense, and I hope that it wasn't my comment that directed Angel to the thought that Helium was any kind of viable option. Helium II from what I understand will theoretically work. However at -450F and the probability that any of us will ever see or get our hands on superfluid/supercritical helium is next to 0. Being that this is all in 'theory' though, I didn't think there would be any harm in it's mention.

I like to think that I'm environmentally conscious, but again, someone who dreams can't really b*tch about the environment when they may be systematically killing those that experience the wake of those dreams.

LOL I know that it must be frustrating for those of you who are much more experienced than us uneducated 'dreamers', but we're learning! Some of us learned one way to dream and happened by here on the chance we might get a few questions answered and just maybe help someone else out. (Just wish I had learned and looked a bit more before I dreamed that liquid nitrogen.) I don't like asking stupid questions, but I did greatly appreciate the courtesy and help I was given.

Have a great one!