I made this post the day after I tried this process for the first time, and not until the pickiest, finnickey "I only smoke clean ice" smokers and the seasoned shooters that can tell you pretty much before the needle's out wether its the real deal or not, LOTS of gasping for air, and one of my boys had to pull out halfway through a .20g shot, he's sort of a light wieght, but not that fucking light, he does shoot good shit at least every other day...but anyway, I put glass marbles in my flask, erlienmyer, florance, lava lamp now, whitchever, it helps stir your chili, one of 'em was too big and I tried to get it out and broke the lava lamp.

I had to get another lava lamp and it wasn't the same as the other one, so I was a tad (just a tad) worried it might not work the second time. It did. Even had the same phosforus done right sweet whole grain oat smell again.

I don't consider what I'm doing as a fast or a hot RXN, most of the others in this neck of the woods, like AcidMelt, are done in an hour, I took 4. I don't know what temp that bulb reaches, but my shit bubbles and rolls even 3 hours into it, in my 150-190 oil bath, it was done bubbling an hour and a half into it, and I've got a fuckin' burn on my tsomach from accidentally "very briefly" brushing into the flask (lamp), Those motherfuckers get hotter than you think, its rolling till you start getting scared your gonna' burn the shit...anyway I did it twice with the same excellent results.

I used to just E-GULL butnow I give my E a lazy, full turps cure, skipping the acetone boils etc.

I clean my MBRP with acetone until the tone is normal colored, then I give it a hot muriatic wash (choke!...choke!) and it eats up the paper pulp and brings out that beautiful "red" color. It looks just like the raw/pharm/indust/grade red I've seen and used. I dry the fuck out of it in a corningware on the hotplate

I use the 7% tinc. and the standard ol 3 pints of perox. to 1 of tinc. 2oz.s of muriatic etc. Dry good, you know all this. Even if I'm doing under an oz., I still use .3rp/1e/1i. I blend the R and E, put em in flask, half a 20oz. bottle cap of Dh2o, put the crystals in and tape on a hose about 2 ft. long with balloon on end, I let it get boiling without touching any heat for about 10 minutes at least, and then I set it on the base and give it a stir once in a while for 4 hours and its done, and I've been having clean, Textbook, motherjars, so there couldn't be too much bi-product produced in the RXN. That's pretty much it, it pretty fuckin' simple, I did not exaggerate on any thing, I didn't have to, it really is pretty simple!

i would have to agree. lava lamps get hotter than fuck. try and pick one up when its on, see how long you can hold it. if you can do it 3 seconds id kiss your ass and loan you some burn cream lol and they are FULL to the top with liquid and you still cant touch em. id have to say that with just the small amount in it in a rxn they would indeed be hotter than hell

quote:Originally posted by Str8_Shooter!:

I made this post the day after I tried this process for the first time, and not until the pickiest, finnickey "I only smoke clean ice" smokers and the seasoned shooters that can tell you pretty much before the needle's out wether its the real deal or not, LOTS of gasping for air, and one of my boys had to pull out halfway through a .20g shot, he's sort of a light wieght, but not that fucking light, he does shoot good shit at least every other day...but anyway, I put glass marbles in my flask, erlienmyer, florance, lava lamp now, whitchever, it helps stir your chili, one of 'em was too big and I tried to get it out and broke the lava lamp.

I had to get another lava lamp and it wasn't the same as the other one, so I was a tad (just a tad) worried it might not work the second time. It did. Even had the same phosforus done right sweet whole grain oat smell again.

I don't consider what I'm doing as a fast or a hot RXN, most of the others in this neck of the woods, like AcidMelt, are done in an hour, I took 4. I don't know what temp that bulb reaches, but my shit bubbles and rolls even 3 hours into it, in my 150-190 oil bath, it was done bubbling an hour and a half into it, and I've got a fuckin' burn on my tsomach from accidentally "very briefly" brushing into the flask (lamp), Those motherfuckers get hotter than you think, its rolling till you start getting scared your gonna' burn the shit...anyway I did it twice with the same excellent results.

I used to just E-GULL butnow I give my E a lazy, full turps cure, skipping the acetone boils etc.

I clean my MBRP with acetone until the tone is normal colored, then I give it a hot muriatic wash (choke!...choke!) and it eats up the paper pulp and brings out that beautiful "red" color. It looks just like the raw/pharm/indust/grade red I've seen and used. I dry the fuck out of it in a corningware on the hotplate

I use the 7% tinc. and the standard ol 3 pints of perox. to 1 of tinc. 2oz.s of muriatic etc. Dry good, you know all this. Even if I'm doing under an oz., I still use .3rp/1e/1i. I blend the R and E, put em in flask, half a 20oz. bottle cap of Dh2o, put the crystals in and tape on a hose about 2 ft. long with balloon on end, I let it get boiling without touching any heat for about 10 minutes at least, and then I set it on the base and give it a stir once in a while for 4 hours and its done, and I've been having clean, Textbook, motherjars, so there couldn't be too much bi-product produced in the RXN. That's pretty much it, it pretty fuckin' simple, I did not exaggerate on any thing, I didn't have to, it really is pretty simple!

cut the peroxide to just one pint of peroxide to 1 pint of tinc and let it set 12 hrs and your yield will increase not to mention you save on the peroxide. i know it sounds odd but trust SWIM. 1 pint tinc 1 pint peroxide 25 ml hcl 250 ml DH2O 12 hours set time . SWIM just did it last week and got back 39 grams. added 125 ml peroxide again let it set like 2 days as other things came up. when i went back to it i got another5 grams for a total of 44 grams from 1 pint of tinc. 1 tinc to 3 peroxide makes it happen faster but yield suffers. SWIM knows this to be facts from real hands on experience not someone told him or he read it here or there. he did read it but tried it for himself and it does work to produce more crystals. thank geez over at the hive for the heads up on it

By the way, in case I was too vague before, the stuff burns clean and tastes smooth, recrystalized great.

But the true test and the best indicators are: How completely it dissolves in water(100%); How much it draws up to, relative to how much water was put on it(more than doubled back); How skitter-blitzed the full dose of .20g's renders the user (silent, and stuck in the window wondering if the nieghbors are communicating with the D.E.A. and F.B.I. via satellite and wondering if that thump they just heard was a S.W.A.T. team on the roof about to repell down in through the windows (and of course wondering who's fucking his 'ol lady who's setting right beside him skitzin' her ass off coloring in one of those felt posters from Wal-mart with those damn gel-pens they're always tryin' to steal from each other!)

Due to 8 years of slammin' shit that wasn't good and clean, and blatant disregard for health and safety, I have no viens left (and don't try to tell me "ah bullshit, I could hit cha'!" I know my fuckin' body! No, not even my neck or underarms hit anymore, and I'll be goddammed if I go in the femur!) so I eat the shit, and get off great...it's real hard for a lot of people (and sickening to see) when they can't hit a bump, but I'm lucky, I never cared that much for "that rush", I'm more concerned with the other 23 hours and 50 minutes in a day. It's a bitch waking up sometimes, but other than that I get off like a motherfucker. You wouldn't believe how fast and hard that shit will hit you If you draw it up in a point and put it in a capsule (because fuck smellin' or tasting that shit, you snorters and smokers are fuckin' nasty! (Besides, I heard you could get addicted to that shit smokin' it...I've been shooting up non-stop, everyday for 8 years and I'm still not addicted!)LOL!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by gottagogo:

You can't reduce the shit in a fuckin' lava lamp with a "capful" of fuckin' water. The reduction, even if you did use enough water, would take 5 or 6 days.

it was only a half a capfull put on (don't know why no one's asked yet,gotta be relavent) 21g's of E, and yielded about 45% of "nice" shit, in only 4 hours. Considering the huge time difference, you theorized, you should make some big adjustments to your criteria for a completed RXN. I'm not trying to be a smart ass, believe me, I've got much respect for you, but that is a profound time difference and margin of error, It's probably something so fundamental that your looking right over it. I'd be more than happy to give a full, comprehensive run down on the entire process, not that I could teach you anything, but you might catch that one piece of data that's rendered your similar attemts fatal.

Sorry, I feel like a dumb-ass for posting 3 times in a row, when I should have handled it all in one, but I've always wondered how to correctly use the "quote" feature. You'd think a guy would know how after 120 posts...Hey,at least I can complete a routine, standard, simple, run-of-the-mill "short, hot,and fast!" Just kidding!

As far as quoting, its just as easy to go down to where you can see the whole thread when posting. Then highlight the part you want to quote and copy and paste. I like to do the bold italics thing to show it's a quote.

The 5-6 day calculation came to my head from, I believe it's Worlock's (sorry if it was someone elses idea) room temp. reaction method. The whole lightbulb thing just didn't sound like it would produce very much heat (I did like was suggested by some dopehead and went and grabbed hold of my kid's lava lamp. Now, where's that damn burn cream you promised, tweaker?), which is the only possible explanation, from a reaction scheme perspective, for the completion of the reaction in such a short amount of time.

I'm sorry if my mind won't let me believe that enough HI is actually produced by the insufficient amount of water used and that excessive heat will a)speed the reaction up that much and b) not produce side reactions (like those paranoid thoughts or the ultra violent ones) that are definitely tweaky, but not really desirable.

I have to say, though, guys like Jacked and Worlock, demi gods in the field, swear they can produce excellent meth (which is really a misnomer, I should not use the word "excellent" because there is no such thing as good or bad meth, it either is meth or isn't meth.) in an hour or so by just letting the reaction have a look at a glass of water(sarcasm).

If you take a look at the reaction on paper, you will see how hard it is to believe that this reaction (or dual reaction) can complete under the stressful conditions presented by the short, hot, dry reaction.

Then again, I've seen a lot of things that don't behave in the real world the way they are supposed to on paper.

I'm going to let it go now as this debate is not a new one, and I have yet to see it settled. I'll just say that I agree to disagree.

Hey shooter, are you registered at the hive? I'd like to sling ya some pm mail later.

i never said shit about rxn time , short or long i simply said a lava lamp gets so hot you cant touch it. i have 5 of em settin on my entertainment center and one in each corner of the room. all i said was they get hot as hell. not that you could pull a cook in an hour. reread the post

Rain, why are you trippin? Apparently I need to use quotes and address individuals directly. No, fuck that. I was addressing the topic of the thread.

I couldn't remember who it was that made the joke about the burn cream, but I was relatively sure that I could respond with a joke and pull it off without a hitch. I guess I was wrong. It must have been you wicked, and this is the only part of the entire post directed toward you:

(I did like was suggested by some dopehead and went and grabbed hold of my kid's lava lamp. Now, where's that damn burn cream you promised, tweaker?)

If I offended you by calling you a dopehead, I apologize. It was all in fun. I would think that if anyone would be annoyed and want a piece of me, it would be shooter. I'm sure that everything I've been saying all night sounds like I think he doesn't know what he is doing.

Well shooter, that's not true. To tell ya the truth, I'm not really interested in whether or not you know what you are doing, rather I have an interest in the subject matter within this thread.

As many know, there have been more battles over what this reaction can and can't do than any other topic. There will always be those who will use, swear by, and truly believe that a short, dry cook can go to completion. Hey, maybe by an act of the meth gods, they are right. The laws that govern chemistry say it can't be done.

What's important is getting people to understand that we all have a right to our opinions as well as the unalienable right to pursue happiness, regardless of what anyone else thinks.

The bitter thought of how we have been blatently denied this right is how this all got started. Every single one of you in this game is a soldier fighting the WOD.

That is the tie that binds us all together. So, there's no way I could ever dislike any of you, much less hate.



Even if you do waste all that pseudo in that hot ass fire. hahahahahahahahahaha

i didnt take no offense. i just wanted it clear that i didnt advocate the short hot cook is all.

Quit hagglin men and please pass the honey!!!

Ooohhhhh, Billy.

(spoken like the line from the movie "Midnight Express")

Now, bill, are you an immovable object or have you changed in some way except for your name. This mystery has had me baffled for weeks.

What a good movie that was!!!Stillbill is still immovable, steadfast and strong!! Hehe

[This message has been edited by stillbill (edited 08-12-2003).]

[This message has been edited by stillbill (edited 08-12-2003).]

Gotta,

I thought the burn creme thing was funny, an obviously a well meant shot at humor...cause I know you're smart enough no to just reach out and "hold" the motherfucker long enough to get burned to see how hot it was! And I was only agged when I read the first post accusing me of outright bullshittery, but no one can control thier menstrual cycle...kidding. I consider you one of my friends. in some alternative, yet very real, world that exists in my mind, every little word combines with other words to add depth and texture to the character of my friends...you know how we do it! I'd love to actually make a road trip sometime and hangout, 6 hours after my arrival we'd be tokin' on some riteous lava lamp dope, I guarantee it!(providing you give the green light of course, nevermind I forgot we were talking about Swiss & Swiggotta.) I do have a user name and stuff at the hive, but I never use 'em, 90% of the info I need doesn't require me to sign in, and I hate having to familiarize myself with new user interfaces. But my e-mail addy is in my profile...and right here: superjointbobby@msn.com and I use windows/msn (the same I believe) messenger.

Wicked, Gotta:

I feel very confidant that completion of this RXN has already been achieved, but 4 hours worked and I'm not gonna' try to fix what isn't broke...Well, maybe when I get rich and can play more!

Damn Shooter, well spoken dude!!! Bring some of that lava-made chili and I'll meet you anywhere you want!!I just love Texas Lava-made chili! Peace bro

quote:Originally posted by Str8_Shooter!:

Wicked, Gotta:

I feel very confidant that completion of this RXN has already been achieved, but 4 hours worked and I'm not gonna' try to fix what isn't broke...Well, maybe when I get rich and can play more! [/B]

What I meant to say was, I'm confidant that it's been completed in 1 HOUR, but aint riskin' it!

I know I said I was going to let it go, but I gotta say one more thing.

I have been reading through many saved threads and posts I have collected and there is one consistency concerning the debate over whether reduction of (pseudo)ephedrine has been reduced to methamphetmine and to what extent when using a hot short method of reduction.

ALL of the real chemists and analytical thinkers stand by the assertion that reduction is certainly not complete using this method. It is either lacking in quantity or quality.

Many don't know this, but the hot cook is not based on any chemical reaction scheme explaining its mechanism and how or why the reduction is accelerated.

It has been suggested that an apprentice cook studying the art under the guidance of a master cook (thats the way it was done before all the self righteous hipocrits decided it was time to rid the land of the evil drug user. Oh, I mean the evil, but not stupid, self medicating, drug user.)

No, no,no. No more rants.

Some novice said, "Damn, this shit is taking too long. If my teacher says to cook for 48 hours, just hot enough to bubble lightly on the surface (thats no bullshit. NOBODY cooked for a couple of hours in the early eighties, it was absurd.) then that means if I crank up the heat it will get done that much quicker. Everybody knows what this kind of logic is called, right? All of the advocates of the blast furnace are rouges who learned their craft by trial and error at the school of hard knocks. Since I am no chemist, I really cannot speculate what it is that is being produced in this reaction, but its not meth produced by the pathway that is expressed by the original reaction scheme for the rp/i reduction method.

Worlock and Jacked both say it can be done. Their work leads me to believe that by some missing piece, some individual, personalized technique, THEY can get real close.

Anyone who has learned from the internet, scraping matchbook strikers, extracting their own homemade iodine, and extracting pseudoephedrine from cold medicine formulations with inactive ingredients specifically designed to negatively affect the rp/i reduction reaction

IS ABSOLUTELY, UNDENIABLY, NOT FULLY CONVERTING ALL OF THE (PSEUDO)EPHEDRINE IN THE REACTION MIX TO METHAMPHETAMINE.

There may not be any (pseudo)ephedrine in the mix when the reaction is stopped, but its not all meth. Not by a long shot.

Anyone who has not yet been tainted by the hypnotic lure of the quick high, do a little research and find out when and how the reduction of ephedrine to methamphetamnie by way of hydriotic acid using red phosphorous and iodine got its start in the clandestine lab.

When in doubt, always go back to the beginning to receive illumination.

Really, give your best rebuttal and lets call it done. You're alright shooter. Maybe one day you will have the opportunity to experience what it feels like when you have been up for a week with only the meth in your system.That's the true difference between taking your time and rushing.

I personnally think you guys are somewhat confused as too what "good" (methe) is.

if a novice were to ruturn a product

regardless of yeild back that had no jittery

"caffiene OD" effects on the nervous system

then youve got goods. as gotta is saying....

the short hot fast rxn doesnt produce meth

from (psuedo)ephedrine in 4 hours unless hypo

is used. an I/RP recipe can be done hot or

low temp for however long you like.

Chemistry will bluntly advise you the hot,

fast only -helps- speed up the completion time(in hours of corse) between begginning and end for an Rp shtew. I agree with

whoever said that a nRP/I reduction cannot be "completed" hot and fast in 4 hours.

Question is, if the RP/I reaction is exothermic, what actual effects of heat have to do with reduction other than time to completion.

I dun give a fuk if you disagree with me either fuker. If y0ou guys are cooking with rP and getting "glass" back in under ten hours doing it dry(ier) and hotter please explain what temp used,and ratios specifically, ratio of rp to e may be what is

leading you to believe your rxn completed,

and state your cleening process with the

psuedo.

And this for the record, whoever said NOT

to use "???mond" brand match strikers because they are not good are misinforming.

These brand may very weel have the best quality rphoz on them but in large batches

become more and more glufied becaus ethe fine-ness of the erRpoz. And unless several

acetone/HCLide soaks are done it isnt "clean"

fuck boiling rphoz in HCL your a dummy if you do that shit, fukin pirate.

also in the first post of this thread

regarding a lava lamp rxn, time of rxn wasnt even stated but i bet if you kept that shit on heat for week it would yeild the best youve ever seen. but as everone here seems to be speeking in relative terms or for another person ie(smim and whatbnot) I would

not expect anyof us dopr crushers here to know what we are evn tring to explain to eatch other, I think actual setup to product

is rated quality by ones likes and dislikes.

not a fact of physical science or chemistry

in regards to what molecule is being isolated. I liked to know this though

other than its supreme taste what does excessive iodine have to do with non-complete\ion of a hypothetical rxn.

anybody who says there shiz is dirty cause too much I2 came with the product is definitely on drugs, thats not dirt.

im probly gonna catch some shit from you guys on this one, but its expected cuz i obviously dont know shit. ive got pure I cryst. R from boxes. E from "sue tha feds". ive crushed the sue's, shook in ice cold dh20. siphoned off h20, filt to clear. cooked. scraped. shook in methanol. filt to clear. cooked scraped. supposedly pure psuedo? when i add them all, no reaction. i use a touch of dh20, touch of peroxide. to sum it all up, if someone out there would like to teach me how to do this i would really dig it. anonymously of course. i FULLY UNDERSTAND all the reprocutions of the chemistry. both physically and lawfully. i dont want anyone to get in trouble so if there is a way to enlighten me safely i would appreciate it! me and my boys/girls go thru about 1 zo a week and 4k a month in a shitty economy aint cuttin it. my intentions are STRICTLY for personal use and do not intend to step on any toes. im in a different industry...lol! HELP!!! im broke and got no mo gogo! ive been experimenting lightly with some unbeleivably shitty results....i am a smoker. b4 i was broke i was pipezilla. now all i can do is sleep like a fuckin grizzly bear and eat like one too! save me before i get to hippo status! and i have a lava lamp.......and im not in love with it...lol

[This message has been edited by Nvenom8 (edited 08-14-2003).]

hello there snake spit--

It looks like your first obstacle is the pill cleaning method you have selected. That way was fine about 7 years ago, but today suzie has filled up on all kinds of junk food making her one more fat bitch.

If you know how to read, then you do not have to have anyone teach you what you need to know. Just read and read and read. It will take some time and effort, but the information is out there.

Wanting to learn how to make your own for your (and your friends, of course) own personal use so that you no longer have to buy who knows what from who knows who, is your constitutional right, I believe, but doing a half assed job will only result in adding more toxic sludge to the environment and wasting more of your money. Take the time and learn how to do it right.

Froggy, you must be taking your medication regularly here lately. hahaha. You haven't been cussing everybody out and I can actually understand what you are saying. D***ond has a high glass and clay filler content but the worst part is the coating won't come off of the strip without manually scraping each one. Unless you know of a good way to separate the glass and clay particles from the red, then it is way too tedious; not worth the trouble.

Gotta,

let me first say this is not a rebuttal.

I respect and identify with your sporting nature, and theres nothing better than a challenge to fuel some learning we can all benefit from, I admire the effort you put into your research...However, I have no contension with what your saying...I know the reaction I described works, as does Acidmelt, Placebo and countless others who have widely published and well respected synths, that incidentally, are much shorter than the one I use. I know I'd be wrong to suggest that a lot of thier respect and notoriety wasn't attributed to thier ease of use relative to the longer, cooler, wetter synths. But the main reason they get thier props is because they work.

I'm relatively young, but I did get to enjoy my share of P2P, and I've snorted, shot, smoked and ate my share, his share, and thier share of all types of meth. I'm the last person you're gonna' catch being fooled by that big flashy, take your breath away rush that hits the ground runnin' but doesn't even make it to the sidewalk. I've shot a lot in the past, and still kick it with plenty of shooters, and I've always pittied those suckers that fall for that shit...you make somebody think they're dieing for about 45 seconds and you can sell the shit all day...I'm a realistic seasoned connosiuer...I'm more concerned with the other 23 hours and 58 minutes.

I'm not one of those suckers that "thinks" they're a good judge of good shit...I am. And I can say this about the shit this process produced- don't get much better or motherfuckers would be in the hospital in numbers...

Maybe the dudes that make this work and work well don't divulge all thier little secrets to just everyone. I've had a few personal exchanges with AM, and I've learned a fgew little things that make a significant differance, maybe these little tweaks insure the integrity of the synth. Things that a lot of us don't know or don't fully complete. I'm not gonna' get started on E, but things like washing your RP with acetone until your filtering "clean" acetone, and you cannot pass up a "good" hot (not boiling treephbitch, I'll address you later.) muriatic wash, its a must. Having your reagents dry as the fuckin' Sahara is an absolute must if you want to insure the best results you can. And lets not forget the EVER important "babying" of your PHing...nice and slow and easy or your shit will be cheesey. These are a few of the easily overlooked absolute musts.

I use the fuck out of DAIMOND brand match"BOOKS" with the methods AM suggested and my own improvisions on cleaning the rough product, it takes a SHITLOAD of books, but a pair of motivated, practised individuals can make short work out of a SHITLOAD, and the refined RP will rival just about any raw/lab/industrial red you can get...If its done right, when you drop in your I, you better be ready.

But don't get me wrong, I want to try brewing it for greater time periods, but those lava lamps do get hot as fuck and I'm scared I'm gonna' burn the shit and/or add too little/too much Dh2O. Gotta suggestions?

treephrog,

There's NO reason for name-calling whatsoever, but since you have inadvertently revealed yourself to be an ignorant, smart-mouth, punk-ass-bitch, I'll go ahead and call you the names you yourself reflect and I'll say this, If you talked to me like that in-person unprovoked I'd knock your teeth down your throat.

Sorry all for the irrelevant to the topic smack-talk, but the name-calling is uncalled for ignorance. PEACE.

fuck that treephrog punk he dont know shit and hasnt made a molecule of fuckin dope. SWIM`s friend has been cleaning his RP in hcl for years and it gets the shit clean. no fuckin where did anyone say "boil" the shit in hcl did they??? fuck no they didnt. read the fuckin shit treepunk and respond to what you read dumbass not what you added. i say heat on low LOW heat and his translation is boil. stupid fuck. pisses me off that these johnny come latley punks that dont know shit flap there fuckin jaws about shit they dont know. i dont advocate the short hot cuz thats not my way, am i gonna set here and say it wont work? no fuckin way, im not that fuckin stupid. to many well respected people have done it, and are doing it to this day. if i say low heat than that dont mean boil. if i say sunrise than that dont mean noon, got it? good. and the only thing your chemistry tells me is that you aint cooked a fuckin thing. i dont give two fucks what your goddamn books tell you. when you been down in the trenchs doin the deed then come talk to me. untill then get your dumbass to class on time and leave cookin to people that cook.

Damn, that pHrog really has a way of getting under you guys skin.

OK, I'm sure he is lucky to be alive, and I will look like an idiot for asking, but what happens when you boil hcl?

Ole Swigotta has boiled that shit and sulfuric and just about every damn thing you can boil. I don't know whether to think he's stupid, ignorant, crazy, or has titanium balls.

I would like to know if I should issue a disclaimer just to make sure he knows what could happen.

Shooter--

I guess I have been frustrated by this method because I have tried to work out a procedure that will let Swigotta turn out some good product in a pinch. You know, when you don't have the time to wait two days. For whatever reason, my mind just won't allow short, hot, and dry. I guess we will just have to make sure there is always a good stash and plan ahead.

You just don't learn tree frig!!You mealy mouth cocksuckin dicklick. Slim's Sista will

take care of your ass you scum suckin piece of shit!! I don't think it's Birmingham, I think it's Tennessee. Stay off this forum

you toe-headed hill jack. I dun give a fuk if you fukers disagree wif me. Duh question is whether de Rp/i rxn is endothermic, duh?!

[This message has been edited by stillbill (edited 08-15-2003).]

im with venom...im trying to learn the ropes on my own, w/o a teacher...i have all my apparatus for the methhead pushpull setup, and most of the chemicals, minus the iodine...the only iodine i could find was tincture w/ 2%(2oz=.84c), and povidone/iodine10%(10oz=$11.50), i didnt know how much of which one to get...im rather confident in my chemistry abilities, but as i've never done this before, im a little bit nervous about it...problem being that meth left my area almost 2 years ago, and NO ONE i know has seen it since...so im trying to get this set up...anyone who can help me it greatly appreciated!!!

Rhodium.ws has all the info you need in the chemistry section.

thanks gogo. your response is much appreciated. is this the spot to "read up" or does anyone know of another spot to read till i bleed? im like a blind man tryin to catch a black cat in a dark round room. with a straight jacket on. ive found some cool sites with some in depth details but they start using all the scientific Md4R to the square root type shit and i aint no chemist! i may just be fucked to buying the "go green double bouble" crap. but im gonna try! getting sleepy...think ill take a nap. all this typing has worn me out......lol

Stillbill, Wicked_rain, hey guys ,I didnt mean to piss you off..... I was just stating a fact that boiling hcl your a dummy.....

I didnt mean to cause havoc on your pretty

world.... lol FUCK you silly hoebag

I wasnt directing my statements at you anyways fucker, and if you wanna try and figgure out who and what kind of strange

whateverthefuckyoukeepcallingme I am,

Donde Esta bitch, AB will take care of your silly ass quicker than you can retort to arguing with me over something like an exothermic rxn, I speak when I want to on totse and if you dont like it then thats your own preference,(now see all Im doing is wasting a couple KB's by responding to yours ill-mature post fools) but don't waste totses

hard drive space talking shit cause I said pirate. You are a 1 eyed glass pipe swinging pirate mutherfucker Just ignore me if you hate me so much cockboy.

quote:Originally posted by stillbill:

Damn Shooter, well spoken dude!!! Bring some of that lava-made chili and I'll meet you anywhere you want!!I just love Texas Lava-made chili! Peace bro

yeah dont we all....

Damn stillbill, I just love wetback Texas toast shoved up your anus dawg....

Back to Lab Tips I read thanks.

quote:Originally posted by stillbill:

Damn Shooter, well spoken dude!!! Bring some of that lava-made chili and I'll meet you anywhere you want!!I just love Texas Lava-made chili! Peace bro

ok... no problem I have some of that lava made texas chili....meet me at the 180th lateral 45th longitudal median on Murcury,

I will be the one with flaming shorts and 1st degree burns on the forehead standing there with a flask in my hand, See you Soon I hope, chili waitin.

Learn to spell you pimplefaced little dicksucker, there is no planet called Murcury

What a fucking moron, trying so hard to be the T. Leary of meth but can't spell Mercury!

Oh please exothermic me you silly little boy, did I get your dander up? I dun care if you fukers disagree wif me, fuk you!! LOL

Damn, you guys really are wasting disk space with this bullshit. Haven't you learned by now that violence just ain't gonna happen here. If you want to kick someones ass, you have to do it intelligently. You guys aren't debating an issue, you're bickering like a bunch of old ladies.

Shooter--

I'm beginning to feel like osmium, so I want to talk about something else. When you say-

"And lets not forget the EVER important "babying" of your PHing...nice and slow and easy or your shit will be cheesey."

are you speaking of the post rxn workup, specifically titration? If so, what makes hitting a certain pH so important? The key here is that a certain amount of acid is needed to convert all of the meth freebase in the NP to the salt. If you put a little acid in at a time, shake, settle, drain, do it again, then all you are doing is pulling the salt out a little at a time. This may take more time, but it gives you more of the meth cleanly than if you do it all at once and overshoot the pH and pull a bunch of crap right along with your meth. So, for newbees, it is much better to guess how much you think you have in the funnel and pull a third of it at a time and evap separarely. The first two plates will be the best and if the third is still heavy (if you underestimated, which is always a nice suprise)then drop in some more hcl water and pull it again. If you get some excess hcl and some crap in the last plate, that's ok, rinse it with acetone. Of course, if you're not imploying some kind of recrystallization technique, then it's not going to be smooth enough.

"those lava lamps do get hot as fuck and I'm scared I'm gonna' burn the shit and/or add too little/too much Dh2O. Gotta suggestions?"

Sure, you can cover the base where the glass meets the base with a piece of foil that extends out laterally at least 6" or so on each side. This will help to dissipate some of the heat. You can also use a dimmer switch on the bulb, that would be the best way to control the heat buildup.

Bill--

What does this mean

"Duh question is whether de Rp/i rxn is endothermic, duh?!

If the initial reaction of the formation of HI is exothermic, what are you describing as endothermic?

Smokabowl--

Well, thank you for offering, I believe I will. Hang on a minute............hum de dum de do.................whew, damn that was good! Hang on again.............................woooooohooooooo! !! yeeeeeeewhaaaaaawwwww!!

OK, thank you, Im ready now. You said

"i have all my apparatus for the methhead pushpull setup"

If you are serious about learning the rp/i method, you would do well to forget about the dry hot and focus on the long, wet reflux. Learn the dry hot later and use it only when you are in a pinch and using nano scale. It may be good if you run out and need some motivation for preparing the next serious run.

"the only iodine i could find was tincture w/ 2%(2oz=.84c)"

me too, except they are only 1 oz. bottles for $0.83. It's ok, though. Extract it and resublime it. Plenty good enough.

kman--

"Rhodium.ws has all the info you need in the chemistry section."

I can't say that I agree. Rhodium has a way of collecting stuff that is intentionally overcomplicated and not really good for newbees. There is also some things on his site that are crapola. Since everyone thinks that if its on Rhodium's site its the gospel, it can really mess you up. Go to the hive if you want to study. Just dream up some key words of interest and UTFSE (use the fucking search engine). You will find a wealth of information. CAUTION: Think long and hard before you post a question at the hive. They will rip you to shreds if you ask the kind of questions that we so patiently answer here. They do not tolerate unresearched newbee questions. Don't talk, read! I'm not sure when CH will be flowing again, but they will cerytainly be a good source of friendly information. A good place to go when you start figuring things out. As of late, this forum is beginning to have some decent archives.

OK pHrog--

"was just stating a fact that boiling hcl your a dummy....."

Why the hell is it so dumb? If it's because of toxic fumes, then who gives a fuck. Everything you boil in the lab gives off toxic fumes. Toxic fumes will put hair on your nuts. I guess it would be a bad thing if you like smooth, clean nuts.

"I will be the one with flaming shorts and 1st degree burns on the forehead standing there with a flask in my hand, See you Soon I hope, chili waitin."

Man, you guys have to see the humor in this. Froggy may be a mouthy little bitch, but there is a sense of humor in there as well.

Oh well. New guys, If you use the long, wet reflux and you plan on smoking the meth, make sure you get yourself a mini torch type lighter or some other kind of torch. You see, that iodometh and impurities will burn quick, but pure meth is gonna take a lot more heat to get it to melt. You'll need a torch.

gottagogo---thank you for the advice, as most people on here seem to be rather high strung as far as helping out ppl trying to learn the ropes...your help and advice is appreciated...

Hey Gogo, being sarcastic about Frig's statement above. Wanna flame me for not typing exothermic instead of endothermic?

Just a bit of sarcasm in semantics, that's all! Oh yes, make sure Bill you are not speaking chemically incorrect! I would have to ostracize you from this forum.

[This message has been edited by stillbill (edited 08-16-2003).]

Damn bill--

I thought you were gonna bust out with some cool electrochemistry shit or something.

venom, bowler--

read up and when you get stuck, come on in and ask some specific questions. I don't know much, by there are some guys here that do.

Gotta, Yes, I was reffering to post RXN ph-ing, and the fact that it has to be done slowly to be done right,because of the assasins they put in the pills these days, that are activated from PHing too quickly and/or incorrectly. (heads-up courtesy of AM)

I feel Ive got the post reaction work-up pretty well down, but I do some things different than the way a lot of people do from what I've read, some of the differences are from the lack of a seppratory funnel etc., which, I never wanted to ask before for fear of being ridiculed, I've read alot and looked at pictures, but I don't know how a propper sep funnel works or is used exactly, it must be some easy fundamental misunderstanding I have because there doesn't seem to be anything complicated about it in my readings.

But anyway, Gotta (or someone else I kind of trust) I'd appreciate a critique of my PR workup, its good to have a check-up once in a while to make sure your healthy.

Here's the run-down:

I take it off the heat and remove the quarter-mile of tape and remove the ballooned tubing (I have a Q at this point that I'll ask later). While it cools a bit (not too much) I prepare a fine gravity (my filter flask with buchner and hand pump is in the mail- praise the meth gods!) filter set-up by placing 1 (I don't like the 3-way) cotton ball firmly into the tip of a funnel and on top of that, 6 coffee filters pre-moistened with Dh2o, then I plave it on the rim of one of 2 mason jars. Next I add 4-5 times the volume of the RXN fluid (I know Geez says 3) of Dh2O, swirl to loosen the red and pour into filters. I do this a few times until I have crystal clear piss.

Next I add alittle more than an equal vollume of hot naptha, aggitate and drain off and repeat until naptha draws no color from RXN fluid, it usually doesn't the first time but I wash it twice anyway to be safe. While the second addition of hot naptha is setting, I prepare the standard 20% lye solution, add an eqal amount of naptha, and SLOWLY OVER AN HOUR- 45 MINUTES raise the ph until the bottom layer stays milky(white but sometimes dark colors that effect it no differently than when its white(?)) and I get the fishy smell, or until I'm sure I've reached or passed "14". Then I let it set a while with occasional stirring, then drain naptha into a 1 liter bottle, add a 2cnd equal amount of naptha to the mother jar, stir, wait, drain into bottle with first pull, add about 1/5 the amount of Dh2o, put on my trusty squirt top lid, voodoo shake (check the PH just to make sure its way high), and add drops of muriatic acid and voodoo shake and repeat until I get around 7 (6, 6.8 ,7.2, you know, close) Voodoo-super-shake and drain water into pan.

Tell me what you think so far, I "Gotta" stop...tired. I know this is badly formatted and sloppy, its not a write up and not for newbs, just a refferance for someone who knows what's up for critiquing.

(Additional reply typed before the above)

(Gotta) Where do you see humor in the illiterate amphibians rhetort? It must be the fire and burns stuff...cause of the hot RXN. Right? He still ain't funny, and I don't know what the fuck he's talking about because 90% of what he types is beyond mis-spelling, its not phrog language iether, its illiteracy.

I must say though, when I reread his post and reread my reply, I felt I had made a mistake, and felt bad, because it seemed he wasn't directly insulting me, but when I saw Wicked's and a couple of the other posts I realized he was a shittalker anyway so I made no attempt to apologize.

By the way...Even before recrystallization, which I sometimes have a hard time getting to because demand for my shit is so high, and even without an acetone rinse...my shit still demands a torch, still burns clean as a whistle and still tastes as smooth as silk. It is in fact the only powder most of my people will even smoke.

I guess after all the ranting raving and exchanging- not to mention the inclusion of sound scientific theories as well as facts and our personal opinions and assertions...What we can conclude from it all is this: excellent product can be achieved in a few short hours and if youve got plenty of time on your hands, it can also be achieved in 2 days. LOL! PEACE!

ill tell ya fellas, ive been hard at read and i must praise the gods in here because you guys have done some WICKED readin to know this stuff. i suppose in time i will get it, because ive never been know to be short of intelligence. MUCH RESPECT to the man with the plans. ive been broke as a joke and aint had a pff in close to a month now. ide hope im over the hump. but the next time i get ahold of some that slightly cloudy rock salt, whhoooopa! im gonna be fixin every broken ANYTHING from here to aFAGistan for 3 days!

i had a question to the smokers..do yall use water pipes too or just glass? i dig the hell out of a water huffer! "mountain do or champagne are my fav. fillers. if you havent done it, youre missin out! im here str8's land, and i dunno about you but the last i found was obviously usin some copper cuz that shit went like lime koolaid green @melt. i think i got the "chili" affect.r+i+E+lil dh20+perox.=chili. am i on the right track fellas? by the way, for yall huntin some pure "i go dine" crys. i just went on a camping trip and got some from hollow top dot com for water purification. it aint too cheap "12 for 3-4g" but the better the ingredients, the better the meal. ide think.

"12 for 3-4grams"

$12 could have bought 3 pints of 7% tincture [135grams]

Swim set his wetflux flask on a lava lamp base for 72hours and got back %60 meth so 96 should do next time.

This way swim can feel safe at work/sleep while it slo-cooks with a cute lil punchball balloon condenser tucked away in the closet next to the shroom tank.

You're getting a good deal on the 7% Sleepy.

These parts of the country charge 8 bucks

for 12 ozs.

[This message has been edited by stillbill (edited 08-17-2003).]

I order it online $3.50 / pint

google.com/ "7% tincture $ add to cart"

gotta shop around

quote:Originally posted by tReePHrOg:

AB will take care of your silly ass quicker than you can retort to arguing with me over something like an exothermic rxn.

Since when did the Aryan Brotherhood even know what the fuck an exothermic reaction is? I thought those guys stuck to 2-3 syllable religiously. Oh no! I better watch out!

Are you kidding, they write reaction schemes on each others heads so that they always have it right in front of them while they are working.

Shooter--

I'm working on the response, but I have to confer with shithead on a few things and figured I might as well make it newbee friendly while I'm at it. It'll be up tonight or 0400 by this clock.

Any of the arian brotherhood looking in, don't get your feathered ruffled, just a bit of humor. Besides, where I live, you don't.

Well, girls--It seems gogo shouldn't go to sleep. looks like ya'll been busy.

Alright. Hey shooter, this is one more long assed thread. I'm not sure if some of this stuff constitutes "on topic", but the topic opened itself up quite a bit early on. Maybe you should think of a broader title and rename it. Just a thought. This is going to be a hand cramper, but let me say something to ......I don't remember. Let me go see who it was.................OK, here it is

snake poison--

" i think i got the "chili" affect.r+i+E+lil dh20+perox.=chili."

You will learn (if you so desire) that H2O2, or hydrogen peroxide is an oxidizer. This is a reduction reaction which is the opposite of an oxidation reaction. I cannot, for the life of me, understand why it was ever written into curb's "get your feet wet" method. Anyway, don't use H2O2. You will never need it in this reaction.

Hello NSleepy--

I didn't even come up with a new nickname for you this time, sorry. Hadn't heard from ya for a while. I just wanted to say that Swigotta is running some of those really long refluxes and wanted to know-

What was the constant temp on the lava lamp base?

How much water did you have in the mix?

How much iodine?

Considering that about 85% is the max (unless you were stating yield in molar weight) 60% is pretty damn good.

You also hit on a very good point. The long, not so hot reflux requires less attention and is much safer. All newbs should take this very heavily into consideration.

OK, now first things first. A separatory funnel is one of those necessary pieces of equipment. Remember that in Texas all glasasware is considered illegal to own. All it does is serve as a container in which you can separate two liquids that are in some way immiscible with each other and do it completely without contaminating either one. It traditionally has a pear shape and the slender end has a stopcock which allows precise control over the draining of the bottom layer. The top is much broader and usually has a ground glass fitted stopper. After checking to insure that the stopcock is in the closed position, you simply pour your mixture, or each of the two components, into the top. Put the stopper in and either shake or swirl or glently invert, depending on what operation you are performing. After that, rest it on a ring on a ring stand and allow it to settle into two layers. Then remove the stopper and put a collection vessel underneath the stem. Slowly open the stopcock and drain the bottom layer until the interface (where the two layers come together) is right at the stopcock. Close it off and the layer you drained will be pure, uncontaminated. The remaining layer will still be slightly contaminated by what remains of the other layer. If the top layer is the one that you want to be pure, simply allow the interface to go throught the stopcock a bit. You will lose a drop or two of the top layer, but its a small price to pay for purity of the layer. As with anything else, there's more, but that's about the size of it. Sweigotta would be lost without it. There is a good ghetto funnel I made for him in case of emergency. He says its ghetto (which in his terminology means cheap or substandard) but I say maybe so, but its free.

Now, lets look at this post rxn, mid high pH activated gaak that I've heard about. If you are basing to the max (14) then you're missing the point. It seems that this stuff makes its appearance at about 13, so the supertweakers have devised a plan not to go to 13. You need to be at 12.5, or there about, in order to fully convert your product to the freebase. That doesn't leave much room for error. If you are slowly going up al the way to 14 and not seeing a problem, then you are not using supergaak pills. Even wally's new white 60 with trip doesn't have it. It's the 257 that replaced the P/8's that you can still get at the f. dollar. So, for those of you who do have the purple smoke or the orange supergaak, read up on some of the new things that are being used to base that are not as strongly basis as sodium hydroxide. A good search would be bases, basic, changing pH, raising pH,high pH chemicals, etc.

On to post rxn workup. Take it for what its worth. Now, as I have said before, I came up with a system for Swigotta that is designed for him and is not something that someone like the Geezmeister would advocate. Just the same, it works just fine and is as easy as it gets. Initially, its starts just like yours. Turn it off and let it rest for about 15-20 min.. (like you say, it takes that long to unwrap the joints.) While its cooling, a beaker of DH2O is heating and the lye solution (20% by weight/volume) has been mixed and is cooling. The gravity funnel is also set up using a loosely packed cotton ball in the neck and two thin coffee filters cut to size and prewetted. He prefers not to use vacuum here. I'll have to ask why. Then, hot DH2O is poured into the reaction vessel and swirled, then flushed into the funnel. The reaction vessel is rinsed until all is washed into the funnel, then the filter walls are carefully washed down so that all of the red is in one neat cake. The resulting fluid has been everything from (color/clarity) colorless/clear to pale yellow/clear to pale yellow/cloudy. There have also been notes of dark yellow/cloudy and yellow-orange/cloudy. Believe it or not, the dark yellow one had the best shit. So don't read much into what the post reaction diluted fluid should look like. (thats for newbs) The diluted fluid will be about 5X (and Geez advocates this) the original volume and is filtered directly into a large apple sauce jar. (the meth gods insist on apple sauce jars. I don't know why) Next, about 100mls. of xylene (naptha is sometimes used for this and is probably a better choice, but he has gotten used to the xylene) is added to the jar and it is slowly based (depending on if we have run out of stock or not) up to about 10 or so. A lot more xylene is added (probably 200 or 300 more mls. Actually, its measured as about 2 inches more in the jar) and it is put on the heat. Swigotta uses mantles with variacs so Iam unsure what the temp is. It is about 70C. The lid is put on loosly and it is allowed to heat for about an hour or so. Occasionally it is stirred. At the end of the heating, the pH is slowly brought up to 14 and a bunch of plain salt is added (maybe 50-60g. or 4-5 tablespoons) and stirred for a couple of minutes, not a couple of seconds. It really should be stirred for at least 3-4 timed minutes, not a guess. Longer is better. It is then allowed to cool for as long as we can handle. Ideally it cools for about 6-8 hours. When he returns, the jar is not disturbed any more than removing the lid. He has a cool suction rig attached to the vacuum system that allows him to insert a thin piece of tubing into the jar and carefully remove the top, or non polar, layer very close to the interface (which is mirrored now from the heating) without getting any of the bottom layer. Then he puts the goodie rich xylene in the sep funnel. The hcl is already mixed up ahead of time by pouring some DH2O in a 6 oz (180ml.) jar, pouring in some muriatic(31.45%) and stirring. How much? He don't care as long as its too much. (yes you read that right. It says, "as long as it IS too much) Lately he has been skimming tthe top off of the batch for us by putting 1ml. of muriatic with 20 or so mls. of DH2O, and running that first. This pulls the best gram that is in the funnel off first. I believe someone else calls it the "cream off the top".. Generally speaking, 1 drop of conc. hcl. will pull 1/10th of a gram of meth. So 3 drops of muriatic will do the same and 1 ml. of muriatic will pull 1 gram of meth. This idea has been posted recently so I won't get into it here, but the pH when titrating is not critical. So, Swigotta takes his little jar of dilute muriatic and pours about a quarter of it into the funnel, shakes like hell for three minutes while performing ritual to appease the meth gods, (newbs, 3 minutes means 180 seconds. Don't cheat.) Then he lets it separate and rest for at least 10 minutes, longer if he can. He drains the water (bottom) layer into a pie plate and lets it evap with a fan blowing across it. If he is impatient, he uses a small heater to speed up the drying. He never noticed any problems using this kind of heat. Some say it can burn off your meth, but that is not true. Just don't get it too hot. Damn electric heaters take a shitload of electricity. After its in the plate he just adds another quarter of the dilute hcl to the funnel and repeats the process. When the third plate is dry, he will see if there is enough meth on it to constitute pulling again with the last quarter. If not, and there usually isn't (unless he calculated the est. yield wrong), then he pours the left over xylene back into the jar, adds some more salt and heats it some more like before. Then does it all one more time. Only this time he only uses the dilute hcl once.

After all of this, he scrapes it all into a jar and does an acetone rinse and a dual solvent recrystallization as has been described in detali in a post to masahed.

Shooter, if you have been scraping the plate and bagging it up, your clients will shit eggrolls if they see the crystals from a Worlock dual solvent recrystllization.

Its a shame that Swigotta is so untrusting (well, maybe not. He sure the hell doesn't want to be roomies with gay bubba). It would be good to hook up and compare methodology.

Gogo, tell Swigotta not to use that small

electric heater anymore, it might cause a

BLACKOUT!! Those damn electric heaters.

[This message has been edited by stillbill (edited 08-18-2003).]

In keeping with the topic (and thereby eleminating virtually endless variables),"Lava lamp RXNs",are profoundly beneficial to comparative dicussions, profound because a huge variable is more effectively (but not necessarily of course)controlled. The heat is perhaps not universal, but it is constant, and as far as laymen such as ourselves, who are not in a laboratory, and only have each others word to represent the integrity of our "experiments",as far as accuracy in the temp. variable and comparative discussions...this method, if nothing else, in the corraling of that factor, has value, and isn't near as far away from universal as other conventional methods that leave this crucial variable to the integrity of each individuals gathering of temperature data, which is very accuracy sensitive and subject to many individual variables...We aint brain surgeons (Swiggs labotamy does not count gotta!) so ANY control of variables, espeacially big ones like this, helps us better complete what we are doing here, yammering mindlessly to each other so we can learn to get higher(lol).

Gotta, ....You dont do any NP washes before basifying? Mortal sin!

I've just recently played with xylene, and have found it to be an extremely powerful puller, very suitable for pre-base washes, it sucks trash out like a MOTHERFUCKER! Much, much stronger than naptha, in fact, way to strong of a puller after basifying, it greedily pulls in the dope and the trash, where as clean gentle naptha does not, espeacially when a xylene wash has already removed the hulk of trash, leaving a clean interface for the naptha and the goods.

Texas isn't quite as harsh as you're led to believe on glassware. We of course have Pyrex and Corningware cookware in abundance and assortment, and they even sell beakers at Fry's electronics. And the blackmarket thrives, and there doesn't appear to be any limitations on mail order, not that I or anyone I know of have encountered.

And I realize now the sep funnel is a way to keep from doing all the syphoning with 1/4" hose that I do, basically. Gotta go! PEACE and thanks for not renaming me semi-regularly, or even once that I know of!

quote:Originally posted by Str8_Shooter!:

After popping the top off and cleaning out the "lava" (All that pure P2P down the drain! lol)

All right, this phrase has been rattling around my empty head for a week now, so I gotta ask what ya meant by that, Shooter.

I think the closest thing to P2P in a lava lamp is benzyl alcohol, which has a long way to go before becoming P2P.



[This message has been edited by deadlycindy (edited 08-20-2003).]

There's not really any P2P in the "lava". Its one of those bullshit rumors that have circulated. Supposedly in certain lava lamps of a certain age.

Hell, It may have some truth to iy, but I aint fucking with it!

Damn, Shooter--

Now thats what I like to read. Something with a little meat on its bones. It's true, the savant doesn't do all of those washes. It's also true that he likes the way xylene pulls everything. The reason for this is he believes there are two schools of thought when it comes to cleanup. He began mulling over this idea when he read an exceptionally long, but well written post by the Geezer quite a while back that discussed and compared this dual methodology.

What I am speaking of is the preference of when to clean out the trash. When separating the pseudo from the PM (gaak city), old school would always hit it straight on, using extraction methods that would pull the maximum amount of pseudo, but would also pull a lot of junk too. Then they would systematically remove the impurities to finally achieve the quality sufficient for the reaction.

The Geezer has a different approach. He believes in removing as much trash as possible from the beginning, eliminating them one by one with the pseudo still in the PM. Either way is effective, but few are able to perfect and consistently utilize both methods.

Inevitably, you end up with two groups of people, the pre-decrappers and the post-decrappers (From now on you will see these phrases used universally to describe the new breed of debaters, virtually eliminatinmg the short hot-long wet debate. hahahaha)

So, with that said I would like to state that while I have always been an advocate of pre-decrapping modern day pill formulations, I support post-decrapping when it comes to the final product.

Although this is aimed at humor, the basic idea is true.

Shooter makes some of the best points I've heard in quite some time. Universally consistent temps when using standard type bulbs and identical wattages is profound since temp is one of the biggest factors in this reaction. Using the relative data can and will be very helpful for the person trying to render aid for the newbee in distress.

One more thing, just for clarafication. The naptha is most excellent when it comes to "internally cleaning up" a post reaction mix that has undergone not so favorable conditions that you suspect has a lot of damaged molecules in it. A good thick layer of naptha, when using the kerplunking method of batheing the molecules in a hot, slightly based reaction fluid, really helps to maximize return from an otherwise so-so batch.



This is a really good thread.

Kirby- sounds as if you've had some bad experiences w/ "lab bitches" in your day.

And although I agree in part to what you said, I had to reply in defense of myself as a woman and in defense of the few actual good women that are out there.

Not all women are turncoats. I "cook",I am also a woman w/ children, etc. I was busted, made no deals, lost my kids, home, etc. I did my time and am on parole for the next 5 yrs. My "lab bitch" was my old man, it was him that made the deal and got off scott-free. He now has my kids, home, car, etc. Where's the justice in that? Man or Woman, Who can you really trust? NO ONE BUT YOURSELF!!

OK, so there's pre-decrapping and post-decrapping. Say your a pre-decrapper, and John Doe is a post-decrapper.

I'm from the third school of decrapping, the one that asserts that to insure general cleanliness, regardless of countless variables and "conditions"...both washes should be done unconditionally. Common sense...Right? (Not trying to be a smart-ass...I wouldn't want to pop-off to one of the only modorators we've got here, Swigg'sta.)

Spuntmonkey,

Hello, Shooter here. I apologize for the "lab-bitches" remark, I regret my wording every time I see it in the post.

Its actually kind of an inside joke...A while back, someone started a thread on ideas for "alternative" lab locations. I suggested a basement lab with all the luxeries of a state of the art laboratory, and said it would not be complete (it was after all a "fantasy lab") without the inclusion of "scantily clad lab bitches".

Even then I wished I had worded it a little different (though I'm sure it woud have still been degrading to women by manys' standards), and was alluding to that post, in this post. At any rate, what you said is 100% true, but I'm not gonna just go str8 soft on what my boy said iether, technically women do fall into the anyone catagory of don't trust anyone...Not all black people eat chicken and watermellon iether......but a whooooole bunch of 'em do! I'm just kidding.

Seriously, I understand what you are saying, you are 100% correct and I apologize sincerely. I'm truly sorry about your situation you mentioned above, and I wish you the very best of luck.

Shooter

as i said in my post---ive met some women who wouldnt utter a word--and there the type to not show emotion when the guns or badges come out--tough hard nose women--and ive met to many men who roll at the first sign of a cell--but i stand by my post--do not involve your woman in the game

You're right Swigg 'ol boy, this is indeed a good thread, good in its synthesis relative subject matter, which of course includes everything that goes into the specific processes of production,thereby providing a place to present personal prefferances in the preparation of the precursers and procedures and variables specific to the particular synthesis.

We are all bound by the influence of personal experiences, that facilitate the formulation of opinions that are produced not by way of practical or logical deduction but by way of subjective, self-proppagating, subconcious induction.

The degree of an individuals concious recognition of this universal trait's subjective tendency and its domminance, governs the individuals abillity to be pro-selective and objective.

Your experiences, the data you've gathered the bi-products and free radicals you've observed, and the sub-par, "lacking in some way" characteristic, thats common to the processes you've concluded to be "inadequate", have, consequently, pushed you to the subjective conclusion that the particular processes produce negative side-effects and are not conducive to desirable yields or quality product.

However, the opinion you've subjected yourself to and standby fastiddeously are all failures. They all produced, FOR WHATEVER REASONS, DUE TO WHATEVER VARIABLE'S INFLUENCE, OR ITS EVEN MORE LIKELY, LACK THERE OF, SOMETHING IN YOUR "CONTROL" SET UP WASN'T CONTROLED, BECAUSE YOU'RE PRESENTING SPECIFIC EFFECTS AND THEIR CAUSES AS THOUGH THEY ARE "FACTS", CONCLUDED FROM A CONTROLLED SET-UP.

Iether "control" was insufficient in your C-set-up... or your experimental set-up used with the often overlooked and misused SCIENTIFIC METHOD(which everyone should view the deffinition of, even if you already know it, because its value to us, as we are truly SCIENTISTS, is fundamental and cannot be overstated) failed to systematically isolate the variable(s) responsible for the undesired results.

My reductions using what you describe as excessively heated, dry and of insufficient length RXN parameters consistently produce what are generally accepted as good results.

Swiss' is getting tired of typing but to address one of swigotta's primary subjective misconceptions or mistakes in setup, Is the idea that excessive heat produces biproducts or free-radicals or spinoffs and other results from a "dual-reaction".



OK...

Swiss is by no means a "masta chef", nor is he a newb or "your average dumbass".

He likes to think hes doing what it takes to insure that every process and/or action that goes into his work is THE best, however, he had been becoming complacent with the integrity of his oh-so-important E. He's been doing a custom (lazy) full turps cure, skipping the patience ladden boils, sometimes not recrystallizing etc. (That's how he did it up to about 10 minutes ago, before vowing improvement for if nothing else, improvement's sake.)

Anyway, (Damn! I'm starting to sound like you gotta.) (I say gotta because I've concluded that, although you both try to hide it, and do a decent enough job, well, I don't think reading is one of Swigotta's strong-points...he may be able to juggle and prioritize and easily organize the individual components of a time sensitive, in-depth, multi-faceted task...But Gotta does most of the reading and passes it on to him and he accepts the information and treats it as though he gathered it himself (he did in his mind.)

I clean(ed) my E with this method which is not the best, but produces better, cleaner results than most who follow similar techniques step by step to the end.

............And I use a loose description, subjected by you...DRY HOT RXN...THAT BY SCIENTIFIC LAWS GOVERNED BY PHYSICS- INEVITABLY PRODUCES UNDESIREABLE "ALIEN" ,"FORIEGN" INVADERS THAT ARE BORN OF THE EXCESSIVE HEAT.

Fuck this, I'm getting tired over lavish elaborations and anal analytical analogies...

I ,by the way, come from the school of -If there is post and pre decrapping- I'm not gonna pick one, I'm naturally gonna' do both,(I don't think this is helping my point, but it had to be reidderated.)

I have (oh yeah, this is where I assert that I'm not a pro yet not a newb) In my (relatively short- but like its been proven YOU can (and THEY, gotta) produce bad ass results in a short time) time as a practitioner of this fine craft have seen , encountered or otherwise learned about just about all manner of post RXN- Gaak; adluterants, the FDA's preffered embodiment inhibitors, PEG, PH sensitive assasins, and common emmulsions that can precipitate from just about anywhere.

I do a wishy-E-washy (per'se')

I cook the shit hot & dry(Per Se')

I get such little occurence of "bi-products" etc...If it werent for my very first VERY FIRST experements (that were still relative successes) and the research I do and learning to avoid these undesirables, I wouldn't know common trash and typical emmulsions existed, let alone the abbominations that are released upon the world that you mention...

I finished LAVA LAMP RXN #4 earlier this evening I'll let my complete lack of the abillity to stop yammering speak for its potency

40% return...most of you "big yielders", STOP LIEING! I know 40s good...for now, it only gets better historically.

PEACE GOTTA! (C'mon man, you really have to look up the deffinition of the scientific method, or the integrity of anyones opinion on this post or any other will be lost/!)

hi str8, how you doing mate,,,,i must say that your vernacular use of the english language is impressive---and as you said--your lavish elaborations and your anal analytical analogies leaves me stunned--how can a texan bovine raper have such a command of the queens language--your either doing a lot of pipes or your hiding your true literary talents from us your chemistry peers--good luck my friend and may your numbat eat all your whiteants

quote:Originally posted by kirby:

--how can a texan bovine raper have such a command of the queens language--your either doing a lot of pipes or your hiding your true literary talents from us your chemistry peers--

Hey Kirb,

The cattle here have been subjected to all manner of sweet-talk, therefore, it takes a true taleneted pillow-talker to be treated to the treasure that lies beneath thier tails.

All blacks don't eat chicken, steal or dance well. All women aren't crybabys that drop a dime at the drop of a hat.

All British people don't have fucked up teeth and shitty senses of humor.

All Texans don't fuck cows...some of us fuck sheep. Why do you think we were boots? So we can put thier back legs in the boots so they can't get away!

Actually, let my ellaborate wording be a testimonial to the potency of the shit produced by the title of this thread.

amen

hail to the chief.... ummmmm chef

[This message has been edited by Wicked_Rain (edited 08-26-2003).]

That was another good one W. Rain!!! Hey Buckshot! See what I mean, these guys are awesome! Start reading at the top of this three pager.

Sorry, I'm a little late this thread...

Gotta: I guess you could say SWIL is the exception to the rule, The Constant De-Crapper!

He has never had a system of de-crapping that really worked(Damn new GAKK's pop up quicker than strains of the West Nile Virus!), so it takes constant battering from the de-crapping crew, followed by the ultimate method of De-crapitization: Dual-Solvent Recrystalization.

In their own way, everyone probably has a little bit of both Pre and Post De-crapping in their style.

But like you said, Gotta, few can do it well.

In a constant state of de-crapitizing,

Lukky D

lol "de-crapitizing" a new word. i like it

shooter, could you give the exacts on your lamp. size(hxw) type of bulb and wattage. swirl is going shopping tonite. if this has been posted in this tread so far sorry, but swirl dosen't think missed it. swirl thinks 1st cook other than birch and nano in a salt shaker will be in a lava lamp.

LATER !!!! !!!!!!

I'm not sure about the dimensions, but I've used a couple of different sizes with the same success, I think the bulb is a 40 watter, they're all pretty much the same size, you'll figure it out when your in that section of the store, I think it'll all be self-evident, it was to me. Sorry I'm being so vague, but that's more support for the ease of this method. I know this is probably WaaaaY too late but you know what they say...

I was looking back over some older stuff and found Shooters response. Sorry its so late but-

Shooter--

I'm gonna keep it short.(I lied)

I, too, was extremely impressed with your choice of words. Anything that I have to go back and analyze the intended meaning of each word really excites me. Not with a boner, but more like a brain hard on. OK, here goes--

scientific- of or using methods based upon well-established facts and obeying well-established laws

Apparently you were thinking of some other definition because this one definitely does not support the method of which you employ. Well established laws state that matter can be neither created nor destroyed, yet stoichiometry requires much more water in the reaction to completely reduce a given amount of material than you are using. Stoichiometry is a well-established method of determining quantities of reactants both before and after the reaction by weight and volume.

You wrote--

"Your experiences, the data you've gathered the bi-products and free radicals you've observed, and the sub-par, "lacking in some way" characteristic, thats common to the processes you've concluded to be "inadequate", have, consequently, pushed you to the subjective conclusion that the particular processes produce negative side-effects and are not conducive to desirable yields or quality product."

WRONG. Posts that I have read by people who have proven their ability to analyze technical chemistry data is where the knowledge of side reacted byproducts originated. Swigotta has only proven them to be correct by his expereiments which were too many in number and too diverse in nature to coincidentally fail every time.

That's another thing. I have never stated that nothing was recovered. Nor have I ever said tat beautiful crystals were not produced. What I have said is-

Not once did this method produce the high quality, pure form, methamphetamine hydrocloride that has been experienced using the longer method with water much closer to stoichiometric amounts.

You said--

"However, the opinion you've subjected yourself to and standby fastiddeously are all failures. They all produced, FOR WHATEVER REASONS, DUE TO WHATEVER VARIABLE'S INFLUENCE, OR ITS EVEN MORE LIKELY, LACK THERE OF, SOMETHING IN YOUR "CONTROL" SET UP WASN'T CONTROLED, BECAUSE YOU'RE PRESENTING SPECIFIC EFFECTS AND THEIR CAUSES AS THOUGH THEY ARE "FACTS", CONCLUDED FROM A CONTROLLED SET-UP.

Iether "control" was insufficient in your C-set-up... or your experimental set-up used with the often overlooked and misused SCIENTIFIC METHOD(which everyone should view the deffinition of, even if you already know it, because its value to us, as we are truly SCIENTISTS, is fundamental and cannot be overstated) failed to systematically isolate the variable(s) responsible for the undesired results."

NO, NO, NO! Dude, do you seriously think that Swigotta is unable to produce exactly the same thing you can produce using the methodology you have outlined and the detailed writeup that Acidmelt has contributed? If so, your arrogance is getting in the way of your common sense.



"YOU'RE PRESENTING SPECIFIC EFFECTS AND THEIR CAUSES AS THOUGH THEY ARE "FACTS", CONCLUDED FROM A CONTROLLED SET-UP"

Yes, the "facts" are so striking when comparing the product from these methods, side by side, with people who don't even know they are participating in an experiment, all saying the same thing, yes, I believe that is fact enough for the scope of this debate.

"My reductions using what you describe as excessively heated, dry and of insufficient length RXN parameters consistently produce what are generally accepted as good results."

This is probably true since it probably IS the best dope they have ever had. Don't let them come around here or you will be in for a heap of shit when they find out what they've been missing all this time. Or actually what they've been gaining--accelerated years of their life.

Are you serious?--

"primary subjective misconceptions or mistakes in setup, Is the idea that excessive heat produces biproducts or free-radicals or spinoffs and other results from a "dual-reaction".

Make no mistake. Side reaction byproducts are absolutely, without a doubt, produced by the redox reaction. Even reactions containing very pure compounds under rigorous quality controlled standartds can easily produce undesirable reaction products due to variations in protocol. It is very widely accepted that this particular redox reaction does, in fact always produce side reaction byproducts. The quantity of these byproducts is the only thing in question.

"I've concluded that, although you both try to hide it, and do a decent enough job, well, I don't think reading is one of Swigotta's strong-points...he may be able to juggle and prioritize and easily organize the individual components of a time sensitive, in-depth, multi-faceted task...But Gotta does most of the reading and passes it on to him and he accepts the information and treats it as though he gathered it himself (he did in his mind.)"

If you are trying to say here that something is getting lost in the translation, then I've gotta tell you, you are way off. Sorry. No ticky, no laundry. Elvis has left the building.

Even the best isn't best--

" clean(ed) my E with this method which is not the best, but produces better, cleaner results than most who follow similar techniques step by step to the end.

............And I use a loose description, subjected by you...DRY HOT RXN...THAT BY SCIENTIFIC LAWS GOVERNED BY PHYSICS- INEVITABLY PRODUCES UNDESIREABLE "ALIEN" ,"FORIEGN" INVADERS THAT ARE BORN OF THE EXCESSIVE HEAT."

Once again, clean pseudo from pills cleaned by nonchemists in a basement clandestine environment? Oh yeah, they're clean. No fucking way. Subjected by me? No, by many, many bees who have a vast knowledge of chemistry. One holding the highest of positions in beeville. Some call him the chief.

Yes, yes, yes.

"THAT BY SCIENTIFIC LAWS GOVERNED BY PHYSICS- INEVITABLY PRODUCES UNDESIREABLE "ALIEN" ,"FORIEGN" INVADERS THAT ARE BORN OF THE EXCESSIVE HEAT."

I had to put this part down again by itself. Yes, by the laws of nature, this is exactly what does, and always will happen.

"I get such little occurence of "bi-products" etc..."

This is true if you consider methamphetamine hydrochloride a byproduct.

"I wouldn't know common trash and typical emmulsions existed, let alone the abbominations that are released upon the world that you mention..."

You see them every time you finish a batch.

Don't take me wrong, Shooter, I respect your mind and the way you express yourself. It shows your intelligence. Tweaky writing with elaborate sentence structure does not verify the purity of your product. I'm sure you can do the same when not under the influence of the drug. The difference is how your body reacts to it. You know that greasy sweat and that smell. Not regular sweat smell, crank sweat smell. I know for a fact that you've experienced it. Thats just one. I'm sure you know others.

Try making it the oter way. All of those body function nightmares will end. Have you been up and able to function using that shit for 30 days straight, 90, 180? I doubt it.

No disrespect to Shooter, but Gotta I do believe I have just read one of the best

posts ever. Bill believes Swigotta is a public speaker w/a degree in English and a

minor in eloquent writing. Also, Bill thinks

Swigotta is Clark Kent working at the Daily Planet.... hence, the reason Gotta has such a flare with the pen! Ever thought of writing a book? Seriously.

DAMN!!!! Shooter and Gotta, this is one of the best threads swirl has ever seen. As swirl is trying to perfect the rp/I method this has been more than helpful. between this thread and wicked's "all 3 here it is" dreamers willing to study and search to learn, could someday get those big cryst like gotta and shooter talk bout.

as of now swirl thinks his bigger dreams will still be of dancing with the "lady" and swirl will still stay with 7.6 in the lamp until further perfected.

Shooter, thanks; just wanted a little insight on bulb size and type as well if a big tall lamp or a short one. solved that one by going with a short (6")/40w incand for nano's and went ahead and got the tall/40w hal bulb when get the balls to try a big rxn.

THANKS !!!! !!!!!!

CLASSIC THREAD

I think I can speak for Gotta too when I say "No, Thank you"!

Agreed. Classic Thread indeed. <A HREF="http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/fingers/fing34.gif">http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/fingers/fing34.gif" width="90" height="90 (http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/fingers/fing34.gif" width="90" height="90)</A>

BUMP

WOW!!!! look 2 threads on the lava lamp oh so hard to find!!

So judging by the dates of the first initial post of the two Lavalamp/Punchbaloon Threads Str8_Shooter! is the one who patented this Synth.

And so Str8_Shooter! gets his name engraved on our Wall of Fame as this one became an instant classic man!!



His flask broke and this is the answer he came up for that having happened. Just brilliant if you ask me!

So having said that, all I got left to say is....

BUMP!! <A HREF="http://techhelpers.net/e4u/drink/trink15.gif">http://techhelpers.net/e4u/drink/trink15.gif" width="90" height="90 (http://techhelpers.net/e4u/drink/trink15.gif" width="90" height="90)</A>



Jam.

<A HREF="http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/music/musik29.gif">http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/music/musik29.gif" width="90" height="90 (http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/music/musik29.gif" width="90" height="90)</A>

this too