Hey Guys,

Under no pretences I confess to being a newbie here. So G'day anyway! I have taken time to read a lot of posts and visit sites (Rhodium etc) and I have a couple of questions regaring extraction that I'm hoping someone here can help me with.

In theory, if someone were to obtain white 30mg psuedo's from a veternary source, what would the extraction process be, would these pills be any "cleaner" than most pharmacy brands?

pfunk, you need to list ALL the ingredients in the pills to get an accurate answer.

yes an ingredients list for these pills would be nice--if you cant get the list do you have enough to have a few plays before you wash up a couple of thousand--even the weight of the whole pill would tell us a bit about what to do--none the less ---try a mineral turpentine100% soak for 12 hours after finely crushing them in your coffee grinder--then filter--then a toluene wash--heat the toluene to 108c and hold for 8 mins--filter again--let pill mass cool--acetone wash--filter--now extract with prefered solvent(mine is methanol)--evaporate off methanol and see what you have--if it looks good then a/b it and your ready to reduce--if it doesnt then add another toluene wash(but no more than 3 all up)if this doesnt work get back to us with the ingredients and we can refine it to suit what you have--good luck

Thanks for the reply guys, (Morgan, good to see another fellow aussie here!)

re. the specific ingredients of the aforementioned pills, I have been told that label on the bottle simply reads "ephedrine hyrdochloride 30mg".

Would this change the extraction process posted by Morgan?

Also, I would be interested in hearing about Australian substitutes for ingredients used in a typical RP reduction. By the sound of it, Diggers have got the solvent side of things sorted.

Thanks again, peace, love and mung beans.

hi mate,type back with a brand name on those pills---most dreamers only work with the 60mg pills--when you have a pill size of .2 of a gram and what your looking for is .030 in that .2,your pushing shit up hill as you lose a lot in the multi washes--and quite a few of those 30mg pills in aust have gluten in them--and they require a times 3 hot acetone wash ---no matter how good you are in the kitchen---if you have the wrong pills--you myswell bash them up your bum as wash them for all the good your going to get out of them---get back to me and ill let you know what can be used and what cant down here--good luck

After the NP washes, is any further yield loss incurred by the a/b?

Thanks.

had a chance to grab a vets pharmacuetical manual--you may have pills with very little binder--as such an A/B extraction and youll be right to go----but youll soon tell either way--if the A/B turns to a solid mass or the eph wont kick out--then youll have to wash them further--remembering that what you used in the A/B is now effectively rooted----masa,two things---every wash,A/B included, will take 3% to 5% of the ephedrine in the pill mass--this is why im saying the chemical engineers in the pharmacuetical companies may well beat us in the end if they keep on introducing binders and fillers(and they will) that require more washes---the more washes we do--the more eph we lose---secondly---there is a situation called lye lock--thats where you add to much lye in the A/B extraction, and for reasons unknown by me this can lock in up to 30% of the eph in the water--as yet i havent worked out how to counter that--mind you im carefull during the A/B so it hasnt happened to me--good luck

Thanks Kirb, one more Q, if you don't mind..would a lye : pseudo ratio of 1:1 be ok? any help is much appreiciated.

[This message has been edited by Masahed (edited 08-06-2003).]

pfunk,when friends played in the lab,many years ago,which through age and a desire to raise there children and not see them once a week across a table, they stopped --they birched using sodium metal/ammonia--they never did the red/phos-iodine cook---i have noticed though--that the methods the yanks are describing hold true down here--there method for red/phos works with our matchbooks(though get the book matches with the fold over cover from FAL)---and there methods for iodine from tincture is equally effective from whats available here--the glassware is heavily red flagged so a three necked 4litre flask is a difficult item to acquire--as is the other glassware---a friendly glass blower would be handy--the method you propose has been widely police mentioned to the general public who will now report any smells--hint hint--moo moo--baa baa--farm life looks good--remembering we have whats called rural watch---and farmers are worse than anyone for being nosy--and if they see one empty container or any item that doesnt fit in--then off to the bin you go--good luck

hi masa,no it wouldnt--youd lock it--some theory--acids and alkalines---your psuedo is soluble in an alkaline---it is not soluble in an acid---so you get distilled water and mix in your psuedo stirring till its all disolved--then add about 300ml of hexane--distilled water is about 5.6 on the PH scale---now you add lye slowly--one third of a teaspoon at a time--raising the ph to above 12.8 but below 14---you are now making the water acidic--this will kick all the psuedo out of the water but leave all the crap in the water--this psuedo will form a white layer above the water and in the hexane but at the bottom of the hexane--you must drain off the water(every drop and i mean every drop)this leaves you with your eph in the hexane ready for reduction--good luck

Ta for that Kirb, just one thing, what is hexane, is it petrol? Is there another name for it?

EDIT: The a/b info I've seen thus far mentions the polar layer (d-h20), the NP layer (petrollium distillate,say lighter fluid),the pseudo, NaOh &, to 'unbase' it, the HCL.

You seem to know about this process, so, can it be accomplished using only the above?

Thanks.

[This message has been edited by Masahed (edited 08-06-2003).]

hi masa,i take it your a brit--got that from the UK you posted as location--smart arent i--in the states its hexane---in australia its shellite--what its called in the uk i dont know--but its a clear hydrocarbon liquid used in shellite/hexane stoves--like little cookers for the bush run on fuel---find a UK based search engine and type in hexane or shellite and see what bounces back--or post a heading asking what the brit name for hexane is--good luck

Thanks dude, will do that. Ta for the help. Mosr useful.

hi masa, for the A/B--distilled water--i use hexane but many use toluene--and lye(american name)or caustic soda(australian name)or its chemical name sodium hydroxide--glass jar and a spoon or separatory funnel--thats all you need

Yeah, we call it caustic soda as well. As far as I understand (although my entire chem knowlrge has been gained online), toulene is an NP, the same as lighter fluid...

So, would lighter fluid act as a substitute for toulene/hexane?

I understand most of what has been said so far, just this one I need to work out!

yes,ive heard mentioned that it would---though hexane and toluene are prefered--make the attempt to get those--try in every instance to always follow instructions to the letter as the most simple change can often send you down the road to bumfuck--goodluck

Excellent. Thanks again kirb.

Very much doubt it, but if you think I can help you out, please let me know.

Take care.

Peace.

Hexane(n-hexane, normal hexane, hexyl hydride) is a non polar(petroleum distillate)solvent, with a boiling point of 68C/154F. The fumes can cause nerve damage and/or paralysis.