I have been toying with the idea of the substitution of Liquid Nitrogen instead of using NH3 in the lithium ephedrine mix. I am unsure of the reaction between the Lithium and Nitrogen. If I am understanding correctly the process is to liquify the lithium and ephedrine with a substance cold enough but non reactive to the lithium. Any thoughts?

[This message has been edited by Flare (edited 08-01-2003).]

a liquid is required to disolve the lithium/sodium metal,as such releasing the solvated electrons which then reduce the ephedrine molecule--there has been mention of other liquids that can do this but i have yet to find out what these are---the ammonia has no reaction on the ephedrine and is only there to disolve the lithium/sodium--i have no knowledge of what reaction will take place between lithium and liquid nitrogen or sodium and liquid nitrogen--but if you had some liquid nitrogen and wished to check--decant about 300mls and drop some lithium/sodium in it---if it turns royal blue--then you may well be in business--drop in 2or3 grams of eph mixed with your favourite solvent--stir for 20mins--evap off nitrogen--gas solvent and see what you have--when your putting the lithium/sodium into the liquid nitrogen id either do it with a 3 foot set of tongs--rig a device to do it--or get johnny fucknuckle doofus from down the road to do it--the reaction of lithium/sodium and liquid nitrogen may be explosive--good luck

Thank you for your reply. I had to laugh at the 3 foot metal tong comment, in this neck of the woods it is quite possible to find that ‘johnny fucknuckle doofus' to do what you suggest. Unfortunately I'm just not that trusting. The last thing I want however is a 5 foot fire ball shooting up into my face and removing my head from my charred body. Where I am located, liquid nitrogen is quite accessible with no questions asked, and the possibility of using something that didn't kill the local flora and fauna and stink to high heaven or possibly kill me peaked my interest. I do have my doubts however being that I haven't heard of it's use before. Particularly with the fact of the massive difference in temperatures between anhydrous amonia (approx -30) and liquid nitrogen (approx -300) and the possibility of condensation within the container. I suppose this would motivate most to stir quickly, but I'm not to sure I'm comfortable with that. (Heh a bit paranoid and quite partial to my limbs) I plan to try this in the near future, but will still be waiting to hear from others more educated than myself. I'll post the results should it work.

no problems flare--glad to help if i can--im pleased to see you know when not to take advice by not using fucknuckle to help--i wrote in a previous post that you must remain alone--watch your back--never drop your guard--be ready to drop and run at any time---and most times cops arrive on your doorstep, its for something else yourve done(or your friends have done) that has got nothing to do with lab work--if you can do all this you have a slim chance at not being bent over in the shower of your local penitentary good luck

not that this is relevant or you have the vacumn to do it--but i have a vague recollection of hydrogen gas in a rotational vacumn being able to disolve sodium and lithium as such allowing the solvated electrons to do there reduction--good luck

Heh nothing like my own personal hydrogen bomb to play with 'eh?

hmm--and what would you do with it--i know the vacumn rotator is about $18000us --my roto evaporator was about $14000 australian which is about $8000us

Well... if it weren't for me trying to get away from something that is going to blow me up or kill me... I'd almost be tempted...

Hmmm.. Can't honestly say as I have much use for hydrogen bomb right off hand... heheheh but given enough time... I'm sure I'd come up with something stupid!

Well it's getting past my bed time.. I should at least try to sleep before the new day begins... Have a good one!

damn!!!!! fuk liquid nitrogen jus use a fuckin windex bottle that says with ammounia.....get u some lye and pour it in shake the fuk out of it for 10 mins or sooo lol keep addin lye the lye will eat up the water after several mins you will have weak annie that will disolve strips =)....or u can jus take a gascan and add 2 cups of fertilizer nh4...........and some lye then a lil water shake the bitch for awhile have it connected to a cooler with 10lbs of dryice in it...n the middle of the cooler put a gatorade bottle and n 45 mins u will have a full gatorade bottle of some top notch annie without all the oils =)

Well I tried the liquid nitrogen with pretty disappointing results. The strip, didn't do shit! Just kind of sat there as the nitrogen evaporated off. Does anyone know what or why this may have occured? The whole point was to get away from using the annie and reducing the stench, risk, danger... etc. I suppose I should just be happy that the damned thing didn't blow up.

hi flare,ok so you did the deed and the strip just sat on the surface doing bugger all and you wonder why---i have read extensively on the reaction between annie and the metals that will disolve in her and why it is that only very few liquids have this property that allows the metal to turn to the desired solvated electron--but ill be buggered if i can remember--i assure you this has nothing to do with me being 42 or drug abuse,though my wife tends to feel its a male thing to have selective memory loss resulting in not doing exactly what she wants when she wants--none the less--if you go to your search engine and type in solvated electrons or sodium metal ammonia or lithium ammonia youll find a number of sites that will give you a mind numbing series of papers to read on the subject, these will describe the whys and wherefors--i highly recommend to all who ask (not that any do) that instead of playing lick the female groin in the chat rooms,that they research there chosen synthesis and get into the subject at a molecular level, i assure you that after only a few short hours of this study a whole new list of possibilities opens before you--at the very least youll find that youll fine tune your work --creating for yourself a product that is staggering in its quality--good luck and never lose the spark to enquire further

suttleila, you appear to be advising to purchase a windex bottle with ammonia on the label--and through the addition of lye--remove the water --and to keep on adding lye till only amm,onia is present-- and proceed with the birch from there---your message then goes on about creating ammonia through fertilizer--which i know very little about and do not wish to comment on--have you ever known of anyone to use this synthesis you speak of--i can assure you that there is no possibility that the lithium/sodium metal would disolve in what you propose--making said reduction another impossibility--it is not my place in this forum to advise respondants on there advice--but if the said advice is wrong it may send people down a road that could lead to death

Im not neccesarily saying suttlila is right

but I think he means windows cleaner with ammonium hydroxide. not simple ammoniua.

morgan, suttelia has proven himself to be a dumbass and has many times offered things that are downright dangerous or wont fuckin work or both. to all the regulars here he is mostly ignored as is lordalmighty and slim. personaly i think they are all the same people especially since the mods have matched the ip`s. who knows who cares lol

bottom line is hes a retard. i mean if it walks like a dumbass talks like a dumbass it must be a dumbass. treephrog on the other hand has much knowledge and in some wierd sorta way im starting to respect him some and sometimes he is funny as hell but he has an asshole streak that runs bone deep lol phrog reminds me of another of those college educated assholes that has much chem knowledge and knows how and why things work on a molecular level but in reality hasnt ever made a fuckin thing. i also get the impression he is still in school (college) so we have yet to see his assholism peak altho even then he still wont have produced a single molecule of dope just has the knowledge to do so. all that shit dont mean shit to me untill one has been down in the trenchs swirling a flask in one hand giving your buddy the fuck you sign with the other and both grinnin big cuz the dope show is fuckin on. im not knockin the college education dont get me wrong. but ive known MANYYY cooks in my day and i still have yet to meet one that has college chem under his belt and started cookin dope as a result of his education. our mod tryp is a highly educated man hell hes forgot more about chem shit than i will ever know but i dont think hes ever made any illegal product i could be wrong but thats the impression i get. i dont much care for the way he treats some people as i kno he himself was once just as green as the next guy but i do respect him and his knowledge just wish he was a lil more personable and would offer more of his knowledge rather than flaming people. i dont kno why people think one should go to school for 6 years to make a batch of meth. im like you morgan i will help anyone i can that needs it altho my knowledge base is far less than tryps. i can understand his impatience with questions being asked over and over again but when you are a moderator i think you have a duty to help and be patient instead of all that go search the threads bullshit especially since the search engine on totse SUCKS. the hives search engine now thats how it should work. no offense to tryp but his ego is out there at least thats how he comes across. i like him but just dont like the way he responds. if he is that miserable why be a mod? theres others that would take the job, sure with less knowledge but more apt to offer what they do know which would be of more help in my opinion

[This message has been edited by Wicked_Rain (edited 08-04-2003).]

thank you for the input wicked--ive taken what you say onboard---ive been around the block myself mate--tends to make cynics of us by 40---you watch so many associattes and friends go to the the cemetary or jail--here but for the grace of god go i---i dont know if i learnt from there mistakes--just downright good luck--or just the ability to win an oscar for best actor--theres no classes for being able to be who you arent--to keep that secret from so many people---to be able to keep together two completely different lives--to the point of being two completely different people--one persona is wife kids job and that side--the other is being enough of a predator to exist in the cocked up world that seems to surround the commercial aspect--you speak of the vibe in the lab with your mate when yourve got her a couple of hours from being ready--few things give you that--good luck in what you do--bye

quote:Originally posted by morgan:

thank you for the input wicked--ive taken what you say onboard---ive been around the block myself mate--tends to make cynics of us by 40---you watch so many associattes and friends go to the the cemetary or jail--here but for the grace of god go i---i dont know if i learnt from there mistakes--just downright good luck--or just the ability to win an oscar for best actor--theres no classes for being able to be who you arent--to keep that secret from so many people---to be able to keep together two completely different lives--to the point of being two completely different people--one persona is wife kids job and that side--the other is being enough of a predator to exist in the cocked up world that seems to surround the commercial aspect--you speak of the vibe in the lab with your mate when yourve got her a couple of hours from being ready--few things give you that--good luck in what you do--bye

well i lucked out in the aspect that i have no wife or kids. o kinda got the feeling you were pissed at me in your last statement. i hope thats not the case. i just tell it the way i see it and i dont much give a fuck who dont like it. everyone always wants to kill the messenger tho lol

Thanks for the information Morgan. I greatly appreciate your help and understand much more now that I have read the 'mind numbing' data sheets on Solvent Electron Tech. "Theoretically" I will have to stick with the old home brew of NH3. I don't see me able to get Liquid Helium any time soon as it seemed the only other viable alternative.

not all wicked--im thankfull for the input--sometimes you react to people in the wrong ways--and its nice to have insight into how to react to them--i disagree with allowing people to give wrong info in here--its alright for us--we know better and can ignore the fucker--yet the guy thats an hour away from beginning a reduction--who takes a wrong hint or follows a wrong road--may be in trouble--if your caught giving wrong information--your ip should be banned from the site--peace be with you and do eskimoes really share there women with you