Simply, if SWIM were to follow this hacked

together synth, how well would the end re-

sult be?

Thanks.

-----------------------

To a 500ml flask add in the following order:

50 ml of D-H20

5 g of Red Phosphorus

11 g of Iodine

Allow the mixture to react for 20 mins, add light heat if needed.

Add 2.7 g of Ephedrine

Fit flask with a reflux condenser.

Fit the reflux condenser with a length of tubing, and attach a balloon to the end of the tubing.

Reflux for 30 hours, then remove from heat.

Let sit for 12 hours, Dilute with twice the

volume of D-H20.

Workup as normal.

-----------------------

Eyeve found that:

15ml dh2o

5g rp

7g i2

makes enough 57% HI acid to fully reduce 4g of pseudoephedrine hcl after refluxing for 24 hours at 110`c

The ratios on wizardx's writeup use 3 moles of HI to 1 mole of starting material, 2 moles of HI will do the job.

Above ratios are around 2.2[HI] - 1[pseudo] molar ratio

SWIL would personally use the ratio of 5:6:7, RP:E:I2. He learned from the ratios 8:10:12, and it seems to work for him.

With 15 mls of dH2O, SWIL understands why it takes so much heat to fuel this reaction. SWIL usually uses the ratio of 1:1, Pseudo(g): dH2O(ml). But when using I2 from tincture, with every 4 grams of I2, he reduces the water by 1 ml, to account for damp I2.

In this reaction, SWIL would run it:

5:6:7 Rp:E:I2

Use 6 mls of dH2O

And run the RXN for 36 hours at 70 C.

Not fast, not hot, just a nice reflux. No tweaky side effects from the heat. Just get-up-n-go with long legs for the ride!

Lukky D

6ml is not enough h20, youl have a black goopy mess. Yeilds will suffer.

http://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/meth.hi-p.html



Swims reactions run crystal clear from start to finish, no teeth grinding, no butterflies in the tummy.

luk-with your ratios at 70c 36hr will be incomplete reaction

neversleep-the conc. of HI in this reaction is not that critical, 75%-57%

results can be near the same

no reason to make it a big deal

There is no such thing as 75% HI, 57% is the absalute highest concentration that can be obtained in h20.

Anything less than 52% will be too diluted for reducing.

actually 56.9 that is while boiling.

the over 57% represents excess iodine of the dry reaction yadda yadda yadda

these hydriod reactions are pretty forgiving and you people make such a big deal about it

specific best conditions do exist not one of you has offered real comparisons stats that show what they are these internet guys doing nothing but small hydriods all day seem to favor less h2o

around 1ml h2o per g I2 is close enough if i were to do it



[This message has been edited by theyarenothing (edited 06-28-2003).]

Passing 100% HI gas over pseudo would do nothing, h2o must be present to introduce the reducing properties of the HI to the starting material. Glacial acetic acid will help speed this process greatly.

Adding 1ml of h2o will give 1ml of 57% HI

Im sure cbb2k will disregard all the dry rxn hype.

no shit HI gas wouldn't work

youre hero wizardx is saying in his number 2 reaction to use:

6g e or .04mole

33.5g I2

15g red

150ml glacial acetic acid

thats to yield 88% of a lousey 6g e!!!

thats fucking insane!! he maybe a smart guy but he was high when this method was cooked up

GAA is to make acetic e ester insitu and its a wasted step its totally useless

some people don't use enough water but that reaction is way off. i had to read it three times to make sure .04mole wasn't a typo

you need to quit buying everything these guys are selling you its about 56.9% bullshit every fucking time i start reading these forums its worse

between guys trying to make a big name for themselves as a cook on the web and other guys leaving shit like that for you to read when they got to know it's all fucked up

i feel sorry for all of you you'd all do just as well without all of those bad asses

still reading this shit to be fair to wizard reaction 1 looks good. why 2 wasnt dumped i'll never know. the placebo one hour is a nightmare and that 1g hydriod might as well be shit canned fuck.

First of all its 8.07g of e. After reading it 3 times how can you mistake it for 6?

Second, he lets you know that it only takes 2 moles of HI to reduce 1 mole of e and that his 3 to 1 molar ratio is just to ensure a complete reduction.

Go read a few patents on reductions done with HI

This pointless argueing could go on for days but im not into that shit so im jumping out.

Goodluck cbb2k!

.04 mole of ephedrine hydrochloride weighs more than .04mole ephedrine it wouldn't take long

i'm the one out of here you dont deserve any help i'll stop by in a few years you might listen then

t.a.n.--

for a minute there, I thought placebo had come to crash the party. After reading a few more posts, I saw you bitch slap his super hot bullshit so maybe you are someone else. You're definitely a chem bee though. It doesn't matter, I'm gonna save this thread because of you. Pretty good stuff to think about.

cbb2k--

If you have a lot of experience, then these two guys probably have given you enough information to answer your question. If not, lets see what a plain ole dumbass can offer.

Sleepy is well known for insisting on too much water. Frying that shit at 110C will cause side reactions because it doesn't matter how good a job of cleaning your precursors, they will not be pure. Lower temps will help alleviate this. He probably does bigger reactions, who knows. That much water won't reduce nothing without a blast furnace under it. The preparation of the HI ahead of time is not really necessary, but some say it is. If you don't plan on precise measurement of the post reacted HI (prereacted pseudo) to insure proper concentration, why bother.

The internet guys dong hydroids all day said that these ratios will work, and it appears that the % yield is going to come out good as well. They say they know this works, cause they just wrapped the damn thing up an hour ago and are sittin' around the ole monitor huffin on some crystal clear, smooth burnin', no residue meth seein' what the other internet hydroid guy are doin'.

Ratios

E=1

I=1.3

RP=1

DH2O=same as Iodine. (whatever you decide)

temp=gradual to 90C over 3 hrs.

time=36 hrs. (or longer)

I2 is divided into three. Second part added at 12 hrs and third at 24 hrs.

No premixing of HI. All components, including material to be reduced, are added at the same time. Sleepy hates this, but this ain't no pharma lab, things work a bit different in your basement.

The bottom line is, nothing will work for you exactly how it works for someone else. Do a little of this and a little of that and find out what works best for you.

Gotta go, the hydroid guy are callin'. Its time to go do some more nanos all day.

See ya later placebo.(or similar)

PS-

Sleepy, the numbers that lukky gave will not make a "black goopy mess". Maybe that ephedra shit doesn't come out too clean after all. cbb2k--lukky's technique works best for no tweak dope. I just don't like no tweak dope. You gotta have SOME tweak to it or it just don't feel right.

Hi Everyone,

A good debate is alway fun to read. Thanks

for the information, SWIM will digest it

slowly and post what works well for him.

Thanks again.



[ Edit: Spelling ]



[This message has been edited by cbb2k (edited 06-28-2003).]

Gottagogo,

Would you recommend adding all the D-H20

used for the reaction at once, with the

first addition of I2.

Or, divide it into equal parts, adding

more with each addition of I2?

Thanks.

[This message has been edited by cbb2k (edited 06-28-2003).]

That depends on how long you are willing to go. Some do, some don't. Swigotta is cautious, so he holds back about 20% until the last I2 goes in. If NSleepy is correct, you will still achieve adequate HI% even if you add all of the water.

Your goal is to get enough DH2O in the reaction to sustain the loop, while making sure you don't add too much to bog it down and require the blast furnace of >100C. From a country boys point of view, "Ya gotta fanagle it a little at first til ya git the feel fer it."

Bottom line, hold of on the last 20% DH2O until 2/3 of the chosen time has expired and add it when you add the last of the I2. Then, document your observations and take it from there.

As I said before, everybody's technique is different and subtleties make a difference in the outcome. Little things that some take for granted are obvious to everyone, many times are not. I don't want to speculate on things I do not know or understand. My knowledge is 80% hands on (Swigotta's hands on. My pen and paper.)

The chemistry becomes important to me only when the eyes and lungs are at a loss of what to do.