quote:Originally posted by Deceitful_Frank:

Well I have a long tongue and can breathe through my ears so thats not really a problem!

You'll still suffocate if she gets really excited...

ADP9, I'm in AP Chemistry right now, we get to get to synthesize aspirin from ASA and AA near the end of the year, but as far as i know, thats the only really "organic" lab.

I was going to post this last night, but my computer was/is being tempermental with some IP issue:

"RL, yeah i would go the nitrobenzene reduction pathway, but i don't have any benzene... Hmm... is there a way to demethylate trimethylbenzene?

I don't know... anyways, i finished my paper! Woot! Thats something."

Today in one of my classes i spent some time on wikipedia skimming through chemistry articles, and there is such a thing as demethylation, but i didn't see any procedure.

So what do all these crazy sand nigga terrorist use to blow them selfs up ? Semtex?

quote:Originally posted by Theboss:

So what do all these crazy sand nigga terrorist use to blow them selfs up ? Semtex?

Any crap they can pull together . Try not to be prejudice, well atleast not to any nice middle easterns . Fuck terrorist !

I want to make benzene like that ! I'm still not very good with stuff like that, but I still love that kind of stuff .

quote:Originally posted by asilentbob:

ADP9, I'm in AP Chemistry right now, we get to get to synthesize aspirin from ASA and AA near the end of the year, but as far as i know, thats the only really "organic" lab.

I was going to post this last night, but my computer was/is being tempermental with some IP issue:

"RL, yeah i would go the nitrobenzene reduction pathway, but i don't have any benzene... Hmm... is there a way to demethylate trimethylbenzene?

I don't know... anyways, i finished my paper! Woot! Thats something."

Today in one of my classes i spent some time on wikipedia skimming through chemistry articles, and there is such a thing as demethylation, but i didn't see any procedure.



umm dont' you mean synthesis of ASA from acetic anhydride and salycilic acid? IIRC, ASA is aspirin.

^^^ yeah that's what I thought.

That sounds pretty cool asilent, senior or junior?

Christ. There are like fifty fucking threads. USE THE PRRT. If your gonna make a thread make it a good one.

I just read something interesting. A member at sciencemaddness.org found out that Splenda, a non calorie sweetner, can be nitrated. Here's the original text:

quote:for a while ive been wondering about nitrateing Sucralose, aka splenda, its a non-calorie sweetner. its just sucrose with 4 Cls subsituteing for 4 of the OHs.

i took 3 packets of splenda, they each contain a gram of sucralose. i added them to 15ml of nitric acid and they disolved easily, then i put it in an ice bath and slowly added 30ml of sulfuric acid with stirring. it turned cloudy and there were chunks of product forming. after the addition i let it sit for a little while and then crashed it into some water and let it sit on my coffee machine hot plate while it settled. it was pretty liquidy on the bottom but i was able to get it all out and stuff. it looksl ike i have a good yield but its not weighed.

some of it actualy looked yellow, and some was green, but now sience they mixed when i fished it out its white, strange. this must have to do with the other things in the splenda.

it is alot more gooey than sucrose nitrate, its sticky. i burnt some and i could smell the chlorine. it burns more inconsistantly than sucrose nitrate because it cnat be over tetranitrate. this is also why its so gooey

the point of this was to make an explosive that released a toxic gas on decomposition, im going to set it off later.

Splenda contains: Dextrose, Maltodextrin, Sucralose.

quote:Originally posted by asilentbob:



"RL, yeah i would go the nitrobenzene reduction pathway, but i don't have any benzene... Hmm... is there a way to demethylate trimethylbenzene?



I'll look into it, but I'd just oxidize toluene, and then decarboxylate the benzoic acid.

well I haven't posted in a while and have nothing interestin to ask or say, other than Lacrima's AP reagent ratio 22:32 is excellent which I used in reacting 50ml CH3COCH3:72ml HOOH and then acid. and got a suprising great yield!... but not a block of AP as he does . I blame it on the home concentrated HOOH and the badly concentrated HCl.

I then proceeded to make a cap 10g for detting a APAN 30:20 50g charge

and put all this in a bucket to detonate by high resistance wire and two high amperage batteries connected in parallel. (sorry I had too it sounds cool )

and the story begins

My girlfriend was coming round and she was asking for ages to see some HEs

So



I put my polycarbonate garden table (with a 10mm by 30mm slit cut in it, so i can see) 5m away from the bucket which i filled with a dead rat my mother wanted buried and high density earth, I then proceeded to hide behind it with goggles, detting system and ear protection on (while girlfriend was ~30m away in a house)I flicked the switch and all went well except I was a tad bit close and got hit in the face with a tiny bit of earth...but here comes the funny part the window the the girlfriend was viewing from a (big one) had now been smeared with the rats guts and made a whole big blood splatter.

it's safe to say she looked a bit distraught after that

but an hour later she sorta saw the funny side.

oh and in case your wondering the rat was placed on top of the charge to seal it...

plus my wires used to det the cap were completely intact after ignition..which was quite odd to me..they weren't burned blown apart or anything just flung at the table. but didn't hit it..





[This message has been edited by delusional_reality (edited 11-18-2005).]

Its 22:34, and its 100%tone:27%H2O2, 31%HCl, if you dump a shitload of HCl in I imagine that a block would form a lot faster.

Yeah i meant SA...

Anyways... I don't even have any toluene... So sad... Thats changeable too though...

I went to a store yesterday and they had some 32?%HCl, acetone, and H2O2. ALL WITHIN 5ft OF EACH OTHER! IDK if its a trap or what, but I'm gana go there when I get some $$. I'm making a list and checking it twice. (Ive got about 10 things so far) Also, I got some spray foam for my volcano, It looks really good so far. (Pics soon)

quote:Originally posted by smokeymcpot420:

I went to a store yesterday and they had some 32?%HCl, acetone, and H2O2. ALL WITHIN 5ft OF EACH OTHER! IDK if its a trap or what, but I'm gana go there when I get some $$. I'm making a list and checking it twice. (Ive got about 10 things so far) Also, I got some spray foam for my volcano, It looks really good so far. (Pics soon)



If I was you id get them seperate its better to be safe than sorry.

whats the highest molar concentration of

HCl

HNO3

thanks

Ya, I dont get stuff for the same synth, at the same time. It'll be a few trips.

Well, i found a VERY informative thread on Sciencemadness on benzene and a few relatives:

Benzene Synthesis (http://sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=325&page=2)

Its kinda old, 5pgs. 2002-03ish, im only on page 2, but i don't know if ill finish reading it tonight or not.

P.S. Some KNO2 crystalized out of my solution this week, and i must say, the crystals were huge and beautiful.

damn, i renember #1 or #4 or something. Long way.

For those of you who have tried distilling nitric acid using this method http://www.geocities.com/brainfevert/hno3.html and were dissappointed with the fact that aluminum foil could not be used or had to be protected by something but the layer was crap I came up with this:

Take some aluminum foil and lay it flay on a surface, then lay some plastic rap on top . Then pick up the whole thing and try to keep them on each other flat . You then take a lighter and heat up the bottom causing the plastic wrap to melt and attach onto the foil . It should be able to handle some acids and other chemicals that aluminum foil can't . I plan on using it to make one of those stills in the link .

And now I'm going to sing a song . It is called "fuck flood control right in the ear" .

quote:Originally posted by AreteVeteran:

whats the highest molar concentration of

HCl

HNO3

thanks

Well, concentrated HCl is about 12M while Nitric can get up to 20M I guess, you usually see 16M. H2SO4 is 18M.

Now I know about H2SO4, feel free to correct me anyone.

Quick question, can ethanol detonate?

Sounds right.

I gave up on acetic anhydride production, though I am seriously reconsidering taking it up again.

EDIT: No, dont think it can. You can make some fun salts with it, I.E. fulimates, that will readily

[This message has been edited by Swany (edited 11-18-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by ADP9:

Well, concentrated HCl is about 12M while Nitric can get up to 20M I guess, you usually see 16M. H2SO4 is 18M.

Now I know about H2SO4, feel free to correct me anyone.

can you show your source or process of determining this?

quote:Originally posted by ADP9:

Quick question, can ethanol detonate?



I'm pretty sure it can if exposed to excessive UV rays. I remember someone talking about how isopropyl alcohol forms acetone if exposed to UV rays. I wouldnt' worry about it though, unless you keep your alcohol in a clear container on a windowsill.

quote:I gave up on acetic anhydride production, though I am seriously reconsidering taking it up again.

What have you been trying? I think the easiest way (if you have a distillation kit) is to use H2SO4 on sodium acetate & distill. I'm not sure of the reaction so I don't know the products, but I do think you need to distill your acetic andhydride to get it.

Arete, the maximum molarity is 12.39 for HCl, see the table at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrochloric_acid

it's quite useful.

I'm not sure on HNO3 though

***

In other news, I've been pondering inert atmospheres. I don't actually plan on doing this, since I don't need an inert atmosphere right now, but couldn't one form a relatively good inert atmosphere simply by removing oxygen from ordinary air? In theory, one would just have to ignite some substance and let it oxidize in a closed enviornment. Now I was thinking Mg, but then found out that Mg actually burns in the presence of Nitrogen (forming magnesium nitride), the desired gas. Interestingly enough, this might be why Mg flash is so much better than Al. THoughts? air is like 70% N , 19% oxygen, and then a tiny ammount of other stuff.

I have a scientific UV light, could that be used to convert isopropyl alcohol to acetone?

Also, what's the flash point for isopropyl alcohol?

this is the only post I'll be making in the first four pages of this PRRT.

ADIT:

We shouldn't have started a new one yet!

(whoever sees this, please post that I updated my post.)

[This message has been edited by Mokothar (edited 11-27-2005).]

Why, Moko? Too many noobish/kewl questions already for ya?

Sad to say, it does seem that this one has started off "badly", but we have 20 or so pages to turn it around.

And yes, isopropyl will convert to acetone in UV light, but a very small amount of it, only a few percent, I think, using a modest UV source (the sun, for example, emits UV light). I'll try googling for some info, but no promises.

We need a (OPRRT) Organic peroxide random related thread. With all these questions about AP and such. On another note: Moko you better post

What would be an additative like ethanol or petrol and conc. H2O2, that would add nice flames to an explosion like in the movies?

Whoa , My back yard is full of SOx .

SHIT!

The carbon filter worked, but as soon as ''i took it of...

I got a little carbon in it, is that ok ?

This is definately very pure . But I cracked a beaker . I tried adding the acid to a cool flask, it cracked and fumed like crazy . I'm so dumb .

my bedroom is full of sox. dirty sox

all jokes aside, cracking glass sucks. I'm at a bit of a loss as to what you were trying to synth...

***

For whoever wanted to know:

isopropyl's flash point is 12 C. Its autoignition temp is 425 C.

I don't suggest using UV rays as a method of producing acetone to use, but if you're just doing it for experimental value go ahead, I'd love to see the results. Stockpiling tanning lamps comes to mind. One could actually make a pretty good scientific UV machine with some tanning lamps and a variable resistor and a few basic calculations. If I had a good use for it, I'd make one.

Heheh, he was concentrating H2SO4. Glad to hear the filter worked, I wasn't sure if it would, wanted to make sure before I tried it. Sorry to hear about the glassware, and a bit of carbon shouldnt hurt, does it settle out? Or is it on top? If so you can skim/decant. For nitrations, don't worry.

sorry about not saying what I was doing .

I was boiling down H2SO4 .

I have atleast 95% maybe 98.5% even . But it now has a brown tint to it and its viscous . Better than liquid lightning so I'm happy .

Now I'm going to make some good NC for once . Finally .

EDIT:It stayed on top at first then sank and I poured it off into a sealable plastice bottle . Will a ritz seltzer bottle work for storage ? Didn't want to risk dropping a glass container full of acid .

It only has a brown tint, but it was used activated charcoal from my turtle tank filter, made it off color a little .

You bastard you had me test something for you ! Just kidding, glad if I helped . It worked good . A few clouds of fumes that had like no smell and thats it, but I filled my backyard with fumes when I took them off .





[This message has been edited by totaljackass (edited 11-19-2005).]

I have a bunch of invasive trees I need cleared, each about 2-6 cm in diameter. I tried drilling a hole and using a <1g AP cap, and it made a nice 12 cm crack, but the tree still holds up strong. What would you recommend to remove them?

Also, how do I tell when NG is done dessicating? It has cleared up, but now it has a yellow tint. How does it get a yellow tint from an AN nitration bath?

You should read more about it, man. Nitrite impurities often tint NG yellow. Add some urea to pull the crap out. :-).

Drill a hole in the tree with a drill, and fill it with 50g of kast ETN, and then det it...That would be fun.

If you do that. Vid PLEASE!

quote:Originally posted by lacrima97:

Drill a hole in the tree with a drill, and fill it with 50g of kast ETN, and then det it...That would be fun.



Oh...I was thinking something along the lines of a bow saw, but that works too.



***

Theodore gray is my new hero. I feel tempted to make my own collection of elements. Not going to happen for at least several years though...oh well.

Do you read his popsci articals? The one on casting iron with thermite was neat.

Try AN charges for youre blasting as that has a tendency to shatter the said object rather than just crack.

isnt one fo the reasons AN(fo) is used so much for that kinda stuff(trees, dirt, etx) due to its low VOD? i belive its like 900m/s, as oposed to somehting like ap which is over 6000m/s(only use ap becaus i know its vod, i know its too dangerus for comercial/practical use)

is there something with the energy moveing more slowly that causes more disterbance thus a bigger hole?

ive been intrested in why lower vod he's seem to move more earth than the high vod's do.

No. It's used because its low brisance, or shattering power. ANFO is generally closer to 3500-5000 m/s depending on density (not exact, I could be more specific if you wanted). AP's VoD isn't very high either, as it falls within that range, 5300 m/s at 1.18 g/cc.

I thought ANFO was about 3000m/s and AP was about 4500m/s?

I think ANFO is used due to ease of production.

Depends on density. I think it's somewhere around .9 g/cc. for ANFO, but AP has a VoD of 3750 m/s reported at .92 g/cc., and 5300 m/s at 1.18 g/cc. That's why Lacrima had such amazing results when he pressed his AP.

Amazing is right, I had no idea the density would make such a "huge" difference.

Well, i might synth trimethylbenzene today, but i got a whole lotta homework and a party to go to...

BP = 165C

I have been thinking of packing the exit tube on my retort with something to more efficiently condense solvent vapors, any suggestions? I was thinking mabey some strips of Al foil, very gradually twisted.

I'd use a water-cooled Graham (West) condenser.

A lot of us can't afford expensive equipment though RL, lol, you gotta remember some people are in school without a job.

That would be ideal if money wasn't a factor though.

[This message has been edited by lacrima97 (edited 11-19-2005).]

Yeah lol. That's all I can think of, though.

Yeah, i wish i had the glassware...

Edit: Very interesting idea by BromicAcid from sciencemadness:

"DMSO decarboxylates a number of compounds at very low temps (~30 - 50C), benzoic acid could be heated with DMSO and benzene would (in theory) continuously distill off, just add more benzoic acid when the distillation started to slack."

[This message has been edited by asilentbob (edited 11-19-2005).]

That does sound interesting, but CaO or a lye of one type or another might be cheaper.

I wish I had more decent glasware.

My glassware should be here soon

How long does UN take anyway ?

what did you get? im orderign soenew stuff from them because my old stuff was crap when i got it and still is.

I FINALLY FOUND H2SO4!

I love Ace hardware. But holy fuck is rooto expensive! 13 USD for two litres!

But the importaint part is that I got it. Man did that make my day. I can't wait to try NC.

While I was out, I made a stop at radioshack to pick up supplies for my magnetic stirrer. My only concern is whether I have the proper potentiometer (variable resistor). I got a 100k pot, and my power source is 12VDC at 700mA. I'm going to solder it up and see how it goes, more on that soon.

...unfortunatly, I don't actually have a stir bar, so I'll have to figure out how to work with that. hmmm....

In other news, I'm also going to give a pressure filtration system a try. Frogfot's got a page on it on his site, and it looks easy enough.

quote:Originally posted by Sentinel:



While I was out, I made a stop at radioshack to pick up supplies for my magnetic stirrer. My only concern is whether I have the proper potentiometer (variable resistor). I got a 100k pot, and my power source is 12VDC at 700mA. I'm going to solder it up and see how it goes, more on that soon.



I've been watching the DIY thread. Can't wait to hear results.

RL, yea, i keep forgeting to post my stirrer there, i think ill just get a few more projects done and post them all in one thread.

(cheapo slow stirrer, charcoal furnace, long PE/PVC watercooled condenser that never really worked, vacuume aspirator if i make one, etc...)

Nice. :-). Stirrer doesn't happen to be hotplate compatable, does it?

A few months ago I had found a synth for making NC using HCI in place of H2SO4.And now I can't find it for the life of me.Does anyone know where I can find it?

First of all it's HCl not HCI. And HCl won't work very well in a nitrocellulose synthesis.

quote:Originally posted by K9:

First of all it's HCl not HCI.

You might not believe how many times I correct that in BLTC. Fuck is that annoying.

Asilentbob, you aren't thinking about getting DMSO OTC, are you? I only have one real source, and a couple of hypotheticals.

Unfortunatly, my magnetic stirrer probably won't be hotplate-compatable. If I had a good heating element I might be able to accomplish it, but since my DIY hotplate failed (coffee pot heating element was WAY too weak) it probably won't happen. Perhaps in the spring, when I can procure some large coffee makers at garage sales. I've turned to the APC forum for my question on the potentiometer, since it seems there are few, if any, electronics experts here. Unfortunatly it seems like the electronics forum on APC isn't very frequently visited, so it could be some time before I get a good response. I may have to search for a real electronics forum.

quote:Originally posted by Sentinel:

it seems there are few, if any, electronics experts here.

I'm an electronics expert. What do you need?

quote:Originally posted by K9:

First of all it's HCl not HCI. And HCl won't work very well in a nitrocellulose synthesis.

I always thought it was an 'I'.I didn't think HCl would work well in the synth.I wanted to compare it to H2SO4 NC,and I'd like to see the NC white,instead of the odd yellowish colour.

It's not the H2SO4 that adds color, its the nitrite impurities. Try using HNO3 instead of nitrate salts.

quote:Originally posted by totaljackass:

My glassware should be here soon

How long does UN take anyway ?



It took me about two weeks or so to get the glassware from them. It took me about a month for the chems

Great site, though.

quote:Originally posted by Sentinel:

I love Ace hardware. But holy fuck is rooto expensive! 13 USD for two litres!

Expensive? You ungratefull son of a bitch! Where I live its $40 for 1 litre!

I know someone who might be studying to be an electrical engineer, but they haven't been on to post.

As I showed in that DIY thread my knowledge of electronics is minimal. Even just plain wrong sometimes. =/

All my knowledge comes from Electronics for Dummies and Teach Yourself Electronics. I know a bit, but wouldn't take my word as the final word.

I have a engineer as my sisters boyfriend though, so I'm sorted.

Im thinking of experimenting with Electronic Detonation. Although, I will try it with something like a LED instead of actual explosives the first few time. (i.e When the explosives WOULD detonate, the LED comes on...)

If I do I will do a write up, include parts/part numbers and also schematics.

I suppose you've got electronic detonation in mind??

I havn't tryed stirring with my hot plate or with any solvent other than water. So i don't know.

Well, chances are that ill need DMSO some day... I actually knew a place where i could get it (32 oz. ~$20 IIRC), but i think the store went out of business, but knowing the kind of merchendice that the store sold to a specific clientel, i should be able to find a few similar stores if i decide i need it. The way Bromic worded it, it sounds like the DMSO acts as a catalyst, if you bought the benzoic acid in bulk, this could be pretty damn cheap, then again, thats if you needed that much benzene... I don't...

Edit: Hmm they still come up on google local...

Edit2: Mabey it was 16 or 8 oz.

Edit3: For 1,3,5-trimethylbenzene, im going to use 20ml Acetone to 20ml H2SO4 (Hmm, should adjust a little, his was 98%, mine is ~93% i have heard, that would be near 21mls 93%, i should probably adjust for water content in acetone... oh well...) Assuming i have this much acetone left... i need to go get another gallon, my dad and i use it up cleaning shit pretty quick. Ill just Add the H2SO4 *slowly* to the acetone in a beaker and let it sit for 1 1/2 - 2 hours (covered), then pour it into my retort and distill.

Ratios from here:

Roguesci forum (http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/archive/index.php/t-364-p-4.html)

I think ill make some sodium acetate on the side for glacial acetic acid.

[This message has been edited by asilentbob (edited 11-20-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Spatula Tzar:

I'm an electronics expert.

Well, ive only added 5ml of H2SO4 and its already a nice deep orangeish reddish liquid, was pretty toasty too... I had to slow down acid addition so it didn't boil.

I couldn't find any reaction for this, RL? I need to make sure im using the right ammounts.

xC3H6O + xH2SO4 ---> x? + xC9H12

Edit: 10% acetic acid would be by mass i hope...

So, 60.06g HC2H3O2 is 1 mol, in a 10% solution i would need ~600g 10% to have one mol HC2H3O2 in soluiton, correct? I would need to react this with 84.01g NaHCO3 (1mol) for complete neutralization, yielding 82.04g NaC2H3O2 (1mol) + 1mol H2O + 1mol CO2. Then i need to react that with 98.09g H2SO4 (1mol) and distill to theoretically recover 60.06g HC2H3O2 (1mol)... theoretically...

(Back to talking about 1,3,5-trimethylbenzene)

And since the H2SO4 acts as a catalyst and dehydrating agent, i can understand them having alot, ok, that sorta clears it up, no reaction equation still though.

[This message has been edited by asilentbob (edited 11-20-2005).]

Sorry. Some of us sleep.



Anyways I've got a transformer that says it outputs 12VDC at 700mA. Now I want to hook that up to a DC motor that is designed to run at 12V, and I need a potentiometer to control its speed. I want to be able to set the motor (with load) at a minimum speed of ~80 RPM or so. The maximum isn't as importaint. Just last night I realized that I need to have the pot. in PARALLEL with the motor (but not before nearly starting it on fire when I tried it in series...oops). Right now I have a 100k pot, but I havn't the slightest as to if it's the right resistance needed.

It's not so much the resistance as the wattage.

12V * .7A = 8.4 Watts

To reduce the voltage to adjust the speed, much of this power is burned up in the resistor. To prevent fires and overheating, you must use a potentiometer rated to at least the maximum current draw of the motor. I'd find a 10 Watt one.

Larger potentiometers are often called rheostats, and can be found fairly cheaply as dimmer controls for lights.

As for resistance, a higher rating will give you more precise control, but pretty much all of them will give you a 0-max speed control on the motor.

Wire it in series. Parallel might look better for low wattage potentiometers, but series prevents it from creating a dead short accross the power terminals (a bad thing.)

Of course, burning up excess power is a terribly inneficient method. There are plenty of better speed control circuits out there if you care.

I havemine hooked up now without a Pot. It works fine, I just need a stiring magnet. Ive been using a magnet I got out of a moter. It works good, and makes a vortex(?) thing like halfway down to the magnet (Like 3-4").

I have calculated my theoretical yield of KNO2 from KNO3:

2KNO3 -(partial decomposition)-> 2KNO2 + O2

I started with 100g KNO3, if it all reacted perfectly i would theoretically produce 84.18g KNO2. I am still boiling off and drying my solution, and i believe that i will recover around 20-30g of crude product, pitiful... and thats crude, KNO2 will probably be around <70% of that... Yea... next time ill just do KNO3/C or do a nice sized smoke mix and try to recover as much KNO2 as i can from that.

My now neutral to wide range pH strips NaC2H3O2 solution is now ready to boil down and dry... I might wait a few days for the effervesence to pass...

Shit... i have home work...

quote:Originally posted by Spatula Tzar:

It's not so much the resistance as the wattage.

12V * .7A = 8.4 Watts

To reduce the voltage to adjust the speed, much of this power is burned up in the resistor. To prevent fires and overheating, you must use a potentiometer rated to at least the maximum current draw of the motor. I'd find a 10 Watt one.

Larger potentiometers are often called rheostats, and can be found fairly cheaply as dimmer controls for lights.

As for resistance, a higher rating will give you more precise control, but pretty much all of them will give you a 0-max speed control on the motor.

Wire it in series. Parallel might look better for low wattage potentiometers, but series prevents it from creating a dead short accross the power terminals (a bad thing.)

Of course, burning up excess power is a terribly inneficient method. There are plenty of better speed control circuits out there if you care.

hmm...that would explain my .25 W potentiometer starting on fire.... thanks for the help though.

Well, 11g of crude KNO2 so far, the rest is yet to come.

I just started boiling down my NaC2H3O2 solution, should be a while... I wish more of my beakers were freed up...

Ugh... now i remember that one beaker... way way back when i was trying to make boric acid... hmm... enviromentally friendly disposal method anyone? It has H2SO4 and borax in it? If i can neutralize the acid(s?) I can probably flush it...

I'm gana have to try some of this KNO2... I use a dimmer switch...

And smokey, what will you use this KNO2 for?

Ive got £200 spare in the bank im thinking of buying http://cgi .ebay.co.u k/LabGlass -24-40-COM PLETE-Dist illing-Dis tillation- Kit_W0QQit emZ7563835214QQcategoryZ26406QQssPageNameZWD2VQQrd Z1QQcmdZViewItem

Ive searched google and cannot find any where to get a distillation kit from in the UK lol so ill have to order from Ebay. I hate ebay ..... but id love a distillation kit.

[This message has been edited by hell fire (edited 11-21-2005).]

I wish I had that kind of cash. I would use it wisely hellfire, there are many things you can do with that money that are far better than the nitric acid you seek. I mean what can you really do with wfna? RDX?

quote:Originally posted by lacrima97:

I wish I had that kind of cash. I would use it wisely hellfire, there are many things you can do with that money that are far better than the nitric acid you seek. I mean what can you really do with wfna? RDX?

I was'nt thinking about nitric acid lol but that is also a factor.

*Cough distillation of essential oils cough*

I have my dreams lol.

A distillation kit would prove usefull for many things.

[This message has been edited by hell fire (edited 11-21-2005).]

Sorry hell fire, I forget energetic materials are not your only hobby...:-D

Yeah, when i get mine... someday... ill be using it for distillations, reflux with addition, etc... it will be great... Hell id be using it now for 1,3,5-trimethylbenzene instead of my retort. On that note, i hope i didn't allow the H2SO4 to react with the acetone for too long... Though it kinda has too now seeing as i have to much going on to sit around for a long while and moniter it while i distill it. Hopefully it will be ok.

Nitric isn't so much of a factor.

Over here in the UK the highest conc of HNO3 that I have seen that you can buy is 70%. I supose its ok but why settle for 70% when you can have WFNA.

quote:Originally posted by lacrima97:

And smokey, what will you use this KNO2 for?

Hm.... WTF do you think?

Getting cancer

quote:Originally posted by TheAlmightyVineMan:

Getting cancer

Nice.

It sounds like KNO2 could really fuck you up lol. http:/ /www.colep armer.com/ catalog/Msds/19480.htm (http: //www.cole parmer.com /catalog/M sds/19480. htm)

It doesnt say much about its Carcinogenicity tho.

Be carefull.

[This message has been edited by hell fire (edited 11-21-2005).]

Ya, OK......

quote:Originally posted by smokeymcpot420:

Hm.... WTF do you think?



Preventing botullism? Nitrous acid?

quote:Originally posted by smokeymcpot420:

Hm.... WTF do you think?

If I knew, I wouldn't ask.

I have a few concerns. In the archive BB is under weapons. We done really harm people so we shouldn't be under weapons. I mean, it gives the kewls ideas...

Also, We are into Chem but so are the Drugs lads. So perhaps we could have a Chem archive. You know, the best of both?

I know I don't want anything to do with drugs yet have found some of there chem resources really usefull.

Just some ideas.

So as a summary:

Have a pyrotechnics archive.

Have a chemistry archive.

Move all of the chemistry stuff from Drugs and Weapons to Chemistry archive.

I just think it will give a better view. It will also help newbies. (i.e I didnt think of looking in drugs for chem until someone linked to it.)

I believe those decisions are up to the administrators.

You're not the first to think of such things. As Lacrima said, it's up to the admins.

I think I figured out what is wrong with my E-det system, I think the wire might be too thin to let enough current through. I'm using the red and black (there was also yellow and green) wie from the inside of a phone line. Its awfully thin, could this be the problem?

I deicded to make a flare gun. Its going to use a star comp I made up. Its pretty nice when lit in a pile, shoots off lots of bright white sparks. It will be usd in a paper casing with some KMnO4/s prime and BP as the main propelent. The casing will be like a roman condle that goes into a larger barrel as a bullet of a sort. I hope it will work. Should I make the trigger electricly ignited or fuse? I don't think I'll be able to rig a hammer mechanism for a primer .

quote:Originally posted by totaljackass:

I think I figured out what is wrong with my E-det system, I think the wire might be too thin to let enough current through. I'm using the red and black (there was also yellow and green) wie from the inside of a phone line. Its awfully thin, could this be the problem?

I deicded to make a flare gun. Its going to use a star comp I made up. Its pretty nice when lit in a pile, shoots off lots of bright white sparks. It will be usd in a paper casing with some KMnO4/s prime and BP as the main propelent. The casing will be like a roman condle that goes into a larger barrel as a bullet of a sort. I hope it will work. Should I make the trigger electricly ignited or fuse? I don't think I'll be able to rig a hammer mechanism for a primer .

Yes that could concivably be a problem. Go to a home improvement store and buy a big ol' roll of really thick wire.

For your flare gun, first of all be SURE to test it SEVERAL times before you actually hold it in your hand. Secondly, KMnO4 as a primer is pushing it...I'd say it's too sensitive. Especially for something you'll be holding in your hand. What if you drop it?

I suggest you make the casing like a roman candle, but have the part of the gun that holds it be shorter than the casing. That way it'd be easy to pull out, plus it reduces fragmentation danger. Plus, a longer outer barrel won't do you any good; you need the original barrel size to do any good for lift/et cetera.

I'll ask my step dad. I know, I don't know much about electronics so this seems pretty pathetic, my step dads an electrician. I have all the wire I could ever want. Probally enough to safely detonate a charge of AN that weighs 50 pounds. Its a whole ware house full, just need to go to the ware house to get it so I used the phone cord.

Yeah thanks for the advice on the flare gun. I'll go for your idea. But the KMnO4 is not sensitive it seems. I just have no problems with it. Ever. I actually have a hard time lighting it sometimes, and its slow burning show the worst dropping could cause is it could shoot off. It will be small though. Like a roman candle that you can reload I figured. But maybe I'll find another primer. But I am dead serious I got the mix to ignite thermite. It was a small amount though. Maybe it didn't light and just got blown away. But that doesn't explain why it burnt so fast (it supposedly lit CuO/Mg thermite). The KMnO4/sulfur comp does not burn fast at all .

EDIT: I think I should trust you, but I'll run tests first. Impact, flame sensitivity, etc.



[This message has been edited by totaljackass (edited 11-22-2005).]

Resistance increases with wire distance, especially noticable with thin 26 AWG telephone wire. Use 18 gauge. If you're cheap, use two or three strands of telephone wire in parallel to create essentially one thicker wire.

What do you mean by the primary composition? What is it supposed to ignite? KMnO4 + S might not seem very sensetive, but some sulfur mixes become unstable over time.

The flare is essentially a rocket, so model the launcher after an RPG. Have a large diameter pipe with plenty of airspace for the barrel, so it won't break if the flare explodes.

Definately go for electrical ignition.

By primer I didn't mean primary, I meant priming composition. The star needs to be primed to go off right. I'm sure many priming comps will do. If any body would prefer me to use some priming comp you have then show it to me, maybe I'll look over a composition database and find another one .

I'm just going to go with some thicker wire. Make things easier.

I would not call this a rocket. Were talking about something like a star gun or roman candle. Its more of a gun than a rocket. I just like comets alot and I would like something smaller to mess with and test star comps maybe.

Well, i ended up distilling last night even though i originally decided against it... I didn't even add all of the H2SO4, but then again the H2SO4/acetone mix sat around for over 2 hours, i think it either decomposed some of the acetone further to carbonous goo or or made some much bigger compounds than the 1,3,5-trimethylbenzene, which was the goal...

It was very stinky, reminicent of natural gas, i have about 4ml total in 2 seperate distinct layers, top layer came over first, and it is yellowish and very thin (moves around fast as apposed to a thick liquid, i always screw up with the meaning of more or less viscous), the bottom layer seems thicker and slightly whiteish.

I don't think that ill try this again, but if i did i would make sure that i have dry acetone and have much less H2SO4, i would let it all react for a long while then distill, perhaps around 20:2 acetone:H2SO4.

Oh, and i crystalized out my second little crop of crude KNO2, i just need to scrape it out and dry all of it completely (batch 1+2) and weigh... I might also boil down and crystalize more from some paper towels i had to partly clean up with, but seeing as i doubt much of this crude KNO2 is really KNO2, im thinking ill just trash it... the soaking paper towels that is...

Totaljackass:

A telephone wires resistance is noted here: http://www.affordablephones.net/phoneline.htm You could, if I am not very much mistaken, use a bigger battery OR stick a capacitor before the wire. Therefore when you flick the switch more current is going through. So Resistance is less of a problem. You might want to look at Ohms law.

http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm <--Shows the resistance of a wire and its guage here.

Anyone make nitro starch? if so what did you think of it? Also does it det or DDT from flame? or does it need a det cap?

[This message has been edited by Pyrology (edited 11-22-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Modzilla:

Totaljackass:

You could, if I am not very much mistaken, use a bigger battery OR stick a capacitor before the wire. Therefore when you flick the switch more current is going through. So Resistance is less of a problem.

You are very much mistaken. A capacitor will not counteract resistance, it will merely allow current flow until the capacitor is filled, then stop it. Either use a higher voltage (two or more batteries in series), use thicker wire, or use four stands of telephone wire in parallel instead of two.

I've made nitrostarch before but I just let it burn. I don't know how easy it is to det since I never tried, but you'll need a primary charge. I do know that it is good for making a "nitrostarch dynamite" with AN.

[This message has been edited by K9 (edited 11-23-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Pyrology:

Anyone make nitro starch? if so what did you think of it? Also does it det or DDT from flame? or does it need a det cap?



Mokothar loves it.



Totaljackass, I've barely ever heard of anything other than BP being used to prime stars. Sometimes people will use a concotion of KNO3 and C if their stars have chlorates in them (sulfur + chlorate = possible autoignition, not good). Just taek a spray bottle and mist your stars a bit and sprinkle some BP on them. This is basically going to be a comet, but handheld, right? A comet is just a really big star.

Can anyone answer my questions on NS(starch)

Yeah maybe I'll put a good couple layers of BP/dextrin on it. Its hand held and will kind of shoot a comet, but this will be bigger than a star and smaller than a comet. I'm planning on like a 1 centimeter wide little ovals for size and shape.

I've always heard NS is like NC only powder. I also heard it deflags slower because its not fluffy. Its a good booster like NC it seems, so it needs a primary, but notr too much. I also heard it was used as a grenade filler, they probally just used it as an LE though. I'd either make the AN/NS mix, try NS/AP putty, or mix with NG or something like that. You think it disolves into a laquer like NC in moderately polar solvents?

yes, NS was used as grenade filler in WWI.

Should I get a new container for my rooto H2SO4, or will the original container work? The reason I worry is that it has a bag over it, which would lead me to believe that it could eat through its original container.

I would say the bag is used just for extra just-incase protection. I'd keep it in the original container unless you have something better, like a lab grade container for storing acids or something. Last time I tried storing H2SO4 it ate through the container so I use glass now because mine is boiled down so obviously can't go in the original container.

Sentinel, that plastic bottle is one of the best bottles you'll ever get, so I advise you hold on to it. I use it now to store nitromethane in, because it is the "ONLY" plastic bottle I can find that isn't eaten by nitromethane. It's a strong bottle, no need to switch out your chems.

Does AN usually take a long time to react with the sulfuric acid when one is making NC? I've got mine in an ice bath and its taking a looooong time......

It is almost impossible for it to fully dissolve cold like that. You will have to let it dissolve at room temp, and then cool.

thanks

EDIT:

I think this idea got in right before the close of PRRT 26, but what do you guys think about getting an inert enviornment by chemically stripping ordinary air of its oxygen? You'd get something on the order of 97% nitrogen and a bit of argon and other trace gasses. My only ideas so far have involved hot, active metals (like a hot Mg rod) in a sealed enviornment...does anyone know a simple, good, oxygen-consuming reaction that doesn't give off an 'active' gas?

EDIT II

white fumes are BAD, right?

[This message has been edited by Sentinel (edited 11-23-2005).]

White fumes is either N2O4 or HNO3 vapors.

quote:Originally posted by Sentinel:

Does AN usually take a long time to react with the sulfuric acid when one is making NC? I've got mine in an ice bath and its taking a looooong time......

I've noticed PN reacts faster then AN in an NC synth. Yeah just don't breath the fumes lol.



Also, check out this Nap fireball I did.

http://www.rctparadox.net/dreamoftheiris/

Filename: Nap_fireball_001.



[This message has been edited by Dream of the iris (edited 11-23-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Sentinel:

I think this idea got in right before the close of PRRT 26, but what do you guys think about getting an inert enviornment by chemically stripping ordinary air of its oxygen? You'd get something on the order of 97% nitrogen and a bit of argon and other trace gasses. My only ideas so far have involved hot, active metals (like a hot Mg rod) in a sealed enviornment...does anyone know a simple, good, oxygen-consuming reaction that doesn't give off an 'active' gas?



You can buy gases at welding shops. Argon would be your best bet. Nitrogen reacts at elevated temperatures with many chems like alkalies and magnesium. Helium often has oxygen in it to prevent asphyxiation from people playing with it.

yeah there's a welding shop close to me, I'll go there if I actually NEED some inert gas, but it was just an idea.

If I were to cut some KClO3 with ~30% KNO3, would that affect the FP?

Just trying to save some potassium chlorate.

it would probably negatively impact your ratios...if you really wanted to do that, you should mix two smaller portions of each FP, then mix them togeather. I don't recommend it though. Just make some more chlorate!

yeesh I just put my cotton in my nitrate mix. I'm giddy as a schoolgirl. I'm going to let it nitrate for perhaps an hour or so...I hope it works. There was a bit of AN left, but I didn't want to wait for too long.

quote:Originally posted by Spatula Tzar:

You are very much mistaken. A capacitor will not counteract resistance, it will merely allow current flow until the capacitor is filled, then stop it. Either use a higher voltage (two or more batteries in series), use thicker wire, or use four stands of telephone wire in parallel instead of two.

Ah, Sorry. In my understanding it wouldn't allow current to flow until its full then it would release a higher current then it received. Therefore boasting it, so resistance is less of a problem.

Hey everyone. How have you all been? Everyone still have all their arms and legs and fingers and staying out of jail I hope?

Sad to say I have yet to do pyro since the first month of school which was like 2-3 months ago. Im going to do some this xmas break when I go to florida so yea. Anything big happen? Like accidents or arrests? Ive lost my internet for the past month so thats why I haven't posted plus ive been so fucking busy with friends and work and just good times haha.

Sorry about the joke thread I was high as a kite and wanted to see what the noobs would say since I know most probably would think im some noob kewl since I havent been here in ages.



EDIT- DAMN I just looked at the title of this thread... FUCKING number 27. DAMN thats a lot of fucking threads, I can't belive how many PRRTs we have gone through, just realized its crazy since ive been here since number 2 wow so many posts so many random pyroshit.(No im not high today either lol)

[This message has been edited by AprenticeChemist (edited 11-23-2005).]

My magnetic stirrer LIVES!

check out the thread in DIY.

Last night I made my first-ever HE, nitrocellulose. Unfortunatly the cotton didn't fully nitrate, since some black crap remains when it is burned, but I learned a lot about nitrations and stuff. I had the entire thing in an ice bath, so that probably explained at least some of the poor nitration results. I know it DID work though, since I can clearly hear a "WHOOSH" going through the stuff when it's lit. next time I'm going to run my experiment a little hotter (I had it in an ice bath the WHOLE time) and I'm going to use my magnetic stirrer, assuming I can find a way to protect my makeshift "stir bar." I think I'll try drilling out the centre of a plastic rod.

YES! My package from UN came! I'm so happy.

What kind of alcohol can I use in the alcohol lamps thay sell. I have no methanol, I can get alot of 70% ethanol though. I want to use my big bottles of 91% isopropyl but I heard its a bad fuel.

What part of Florida are you going to AprenticeChemist? I live near Fort Lauderdale and I was just wondering.

I'mgoing away for a few days, so bye everyone.

EDIT amn somebody is a shit head. Two of the test tubes were chipped, stillusable but still. Then one was just cracked and needs to be thrown away(which I'll end up making into a glass pipe i had to convince this 9 year old kid he wasnt ready for pot so its not too bad ). Anybody else have this problem?

[This message has been edited by totaljackass (edited 11-23-2005).]

Denatured alcohol is used in alcohol lamps. You can find it Lowes or Home Depot



Check out my new vid! 70gs of AP in a VCR!

www.rctparadox.net/dreamoftheiris (http://www.rctparadox.net/dreamoftheiris)

[This message has been edited by Dream of the iris (edited 11-23-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Dream of the iris:

Check out my new vid! 70gs of AP in a VCR!

The director in me is screaming at you. Ever heard of a tripod?

But otherwise, nice.

Thanks I forgot completely about that. Its pretty pure, in bulk, and has the right alcohol in it. And every hardware store in the world has it. Thanks man.

Alrighty I'm leaving for the trip now, bye.

Well, I filmed it with a digital camera. BTW, I've found the longer you store NC the better it burns.

[This message has been edited by Dream of the iris (edited 11-23-2005).]

Well people generally don't let it completely dry before burning it, and usually when they "leave it longer" it just means it was left long enough to actually dry out. Though I don't know if that's what you were referring to.

well when I tested mine it had only been drying for 12 hours. Allegedly the "ideal" NC burns with a whoosh, leaves no residue, and gives off no visible smoke. Has anyone ever actually been able to accomplish this? I think I'm going to throw in a few strips of paper in my next batch so I can try out this "magician's flash paper" I've been reading about.

I randomly found a source of >99% isopropyl alcohol yesterday, at united nuclear on the cloud path thing page... Just throwing that out there... think isopropyl nitrite...

Anyways, i got some brass couplings and found an aquarium like filter pump. With a little modification to the pump i should have a decent pump for a condenser soon. Hopefully it is strong enough...

Oh, and i played XBL last night (halo 2) and came across some guy that had "WINTERmuteXXX", where the Xs are three numbers as his SN... freaky... no clue if its this wintermute or not though... Oh, and i should be on later tonight if any of you have XBL...

Im going to work on the pump right now.

You need a distillation setup in order to synth IN. Maybe that only applys to nitrate, though.

I've had my NC go off with almost no smoke and very little residue. But it has to be very dry for that.

Just thought of a possibly pretty good idea for those in high school/some colleges/universities. Most schools have a bin of broken or damaged beyond use glassware. I've noticed some of the stuff had small chips on the top (Erlenmayer and round-bottomed flasks, for example, there' one or two of each in there right now, or other kinds of damage that would not affect usability too much. I'm considering asking if I could have some of it for some experiments, or simply picking a few out of the bucket when no one is looking. Yes, it's mostly test tubes (useful all the same, but less so for pyro), but there are some nice pieces in there. If anyone is lacking in glassware, and looking for a cheap (free) source for substitute supplies, try the glassware bin, there's a few treasures in there once in a while. Also considering asking around the other chem classes.

Good idea, but there's a problem. Asking around would increase suspcion in the possiblity of you being involved in illegal activities.

My friend and I have been doing that ever since we were Freshmen

Yes, if you're one of the guys in class who's always walking about making a gasoline bomb, or smoking whatever he can find, etc. If you have an average rep with the teacher (normal kid, interested in science/chemistry), or are one of those chemistry obsessed guys (a lot of people here, myself a bit as well), then they should let you have a few pieces. Or be the last one out, or come by after class, talk to the teacher, leave, but put a shim in the door (if class has two doors), and come back later to get a few pieces when the teacher leaves, if simply asking would be that much of a problem. But that's a Bad Idea .

Or asking other science teachers around the school. Those grade 9's here are amazing at breaking/damaging things, I think I saw maybe 10 beakers or so broken or chipped when I was in grade 9, and a few less in grade 10.

Most places will probably give you stuff if you're polite, and show an interest in learning. My old highschool let me do whatever I wanted because I was incredibly polite, and all the rumors about me were ignored. Some of them were highly illegal, and well-founded.

Remember- don't apply vacuum to damaged glass.

Thats something wierd about my class. I'm the stoner and the science obsessed nerd. The teachers like me alot(most of them, science teacher icluded)but then I go smoke a bowl as soon as school gets out. If the teachers knew they would be like "what the fuck!" My science teacher would probally lend me some stuff, but I'm in middle school so I'm more equipped then my teachers supply closet.

Yay my step dad had a laptop in his truck, so I can pot and shit.

:-). I also talked about killing people all the time (burglars-type, not random people).

Talked about chemical agents and how easy school shootings/terrorist attacks/random mugging/etc. were due to a lack of people breaking concealed weapons laws (I'm a major weapon enthusiast).

My teacher wouldent give me anything if they wanted to. So, I have to pocket most things I "need".

Again today I synthed another 20g of AP with my teacher, and three other teachers watched it blow. You fellows must have really anal teachers.

Well, I doubt any of my former teachers would approve of synthing an organic peroxide. I have no problem with it Then again, I don't have a major in chemistry.

[This message has been edited by Dream of the iris (edited 11-24-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Sentinel:

well when I tested mine it had only been drying for 12 hours. Allegedly the "ideal" NC burns with a whoosh, leaves no residue, and gives off no visible smoke. Has anyone ever actually been able to accomplish this? I think I'm going to throw in a few strips of paper in my next batch so I can try out this "magician's flash paper" I've been reading about.

Ive had that result many times. Its easy to make NC good enough so it burns with no smoke/residue and a cool whoshy noise its just gotta be able to dry good enough. The best NC ive ever had was the stuff I made for my chem teacher using Nitric acid and sulfuric acid instead of a nitrate donor like KNO3 and sulfuric acid.

quote:Originally posted by tingtonger:

Again today I synthed another 20g of AP with my teacher, and three other teachers watched it blow. You fellows must have really anal teachers.

I still beat you. My supervisor lets me do whatever as long as I'm done with the work.

I am surprised your teacher isn't concerned about an organic peroxide, though. Have you checked the average bond enthalpy? Unnerving.

quote:Originally posted by tingtonger:

Again today I synthed another 20g of AP with my teacher, and three other teachers watched it blow. You fellows must have really anal teachers.

Can you smell something ? I can.

I find it hard to believe your teacher allowed you to make an unstable peroxide in school.

Yea I smell bull shit for the guy that said he made 20grams of AP in class more then once with OTHER teachers watching. I mean its hard enough to find one really cool chem teacher let alone 4 of them all in one spot. My teacher was cool as hell, I mean I made NI3, NC, was gonna make Silver acetylide(but I accidently screwed up and just decided to make somethign else but he gave me th estuff I needed and had made it at home before), and other stuff and gave me so much as most of you know. But he did have limits and such. I doubt that a teacher is going to let you synth that much AP, considering that is enough to screw your hand up REAL bad if it went off even unconfined.

My comment on warweed's thread: (yeah I know it was locked for a reason and I'm abusing the PRRT, so sorry)

Warweed and 30-06, you are both acting very childish. It's unnessesary and spliting the board, just forget about it.

Insomniac for mod (kidding)

A small note to the warring mods. Who oh-so-kindly close the thread every time they reply.

I think you're both acting like a bunch of fucking kids. You were appointed to keep the forum clean and REGULARLY bitch to other members on various "Off topic threads".

Not only is it hypocritical to fucking argue like a bunch of n00bs on said thread. But it's also pointless. Because you're not getting anywhere.

30-06 Stop being a punk ass little bitch and show some god damn respect. Now you can sit there and make pussy ass jokes about jail cell buddies but i don't see you sitting there with Criminal convictions on your ass. In fact what i see is carefree happy go lucky "I havn't been caught yet so i'm immune to everything" attitude and you're forgetting your fucking place. And when it's happening to you mate. It aint fucking funny or a joke believe me mate. When 15 armed guys are tearing your house apart then you can fucking lecture. Now weeds been here for a LONG time. As long as i can remember, and i've NEVER had any reason to get pissed off at the dude. He was a fucking awesome mod. He taught me a bunch of shit and man i feel like with all the police business the "old timers" are being phased out.

Now granted 30-06 you do a decent job of modding. But you're no warweed. And we already had extensive debate over the circumstances of your vote. Get off his back. It seems to me you're stirring shit up for no real reason. I don't blame him for not being around recently as i havn't been. We all have to keep a low profile sometimes. Totse is not his life i'm sure.

My $0.02

^^^Well put.

And also, it's about fucking time that RL has been apointed mod. Warweed, I have alot of respect for you. Your the second oldest member of the board (in terms of regestry date) and only exceded by static_firefly by a couple months. And you should know that there are other members who frequent and help this board alot more than you.

I'm not going to say anymore though, it's all up to you.

Sheesh. A few things:

a) Several of you need to seriously chill out. Barring the presence of kewls, this is usually one of most mellow places on totse.

b) settle your disputes somewhere that's not the prrt. No one wants to wade through this crap when they're browsing the archives.

anyways, back to PYRO RELATED STUFF:

it seems to me that the more someone knows about chemistry, the less they like organic peroxides. I seriously doubt any level-headed chemistry teacher would let even the most proficient of his or her students synthesize an organic peroxide in school. Sure, they could talk with you about it and stuff, but the safety issue is just too big to do in a school setting.

I have learned that my school's chemistry program blows Even the students in "advanced" chemistry don't do much more than neutralize vinegar with baking soda. On top of that, even the best students don't actually LEARN anything. They just 'learn by rote,' which is basically just read and repeat. I asked one of the best chem students how chlorates and perchlorates decomposed and he couldn't tell me. So anyways, what DO KClO3 and KClO4 decompose to?

^^ Never understood what a "kewl" was, would you <i>kindly</i> explain it to me?

quote:Originally posted by Sentinel:



it seems to me that the more someone knows about chemistry, the less they like organic peroxides. [...] So anyways, what DO KClO3 and KClO4 decompose to?

Very astute observation. KCl03 turns to KCl, and 02. KClO4 turns to KCl, and more O2.

Edit- a kewl is basically a destructive asshole who doesn't generally know much about pyro, nor respect it. They are usually related to anarchist 1337 bombz0r mailbox-exploding types.

And Resso, not trying to take sides, but seeing as how Warweed started with the sexual attacks first (as well as a verbal threat), it'd probably not be fair to yell at 30-06 after asking them to stop. I do agree with you that further discussion should be done through a different medium, but they seem to be taking care of that fine.

Edit2- Even I shouldn't really be talking about, so I'll shut up, but I understand if you want to post a defense of what you said, not that I intended to really attack it.



[This message has been edited by Random_Looney (edited 11-25-2005).]

I won't post a long ass defence of what i said. But i stand by it. You're entitled to your opinion and it seems we both agree; They are both being childish idiots. But what particularly narked me off was seeing a real vet member just being trashed like he's never given anything to any of us. And especially because it was with respect to his recent absence. Something believe he is well entitled to considering his recent legal troubles.

As i said before. Some of us should have some respect.

:-).

Anyone read any good books lately?

Edit- and Sentinel, that's why chlorates/perchlorates are generally considered better oxidizers, though their bond enthalpy is significantly lower, making them more sensitive.

[This message has been edited by Random_Looney (edited 11-25-2005).]

Here's an organic peroxide puzzle for you:

I tried my first synth of MEKP, but I forgot to freeze the H2O2. When I added salt water, I could see some oily drops and swirls on the top, but no definite layer. Not wanting to toss it out just yet, I let it sit for a few weeks.

I come back and see a thin crystal lattice 1-2 cm in diameter floating on top. I poked it, and it sunk, where there were a bunch of other transparent crystals. Extracting a few, I did a burn test, and it behaved just like AP. Note that the crystals had the consistency of sugar-water slurry, despite being completely dry.

What is this? A solid version of MEKP? I'll do a hammer test next.

Alright people, chill. I'm hoping this can be dealt with off the boards.



On a separate note, we've got a nice layer of snow here. The Canadian winter is in and should be done in oh...... 6 months or so. Hopefully . But the snow does present some fun.

It isn't packing snow yet so no snowmen but it will be soon enough. Always a fun thing to blow up. I'm hoping to get a vid of R-salt vs. a snowman this year.

quote:Originally posted by Spatula Tzar:



What is this? A solid version of MEKP? I'll do a hammer test next.

Could be AP. Forms when synthing MEKP, just as a biproduct. I wouldn't be surprised if it were fairly sensitive.

quote:Originally posted by K9:



It isn't packing snow yet so no snowmen but it will be soon enough. Always a fun thing to blow up. I'm hoping to get a vid of R-salt vs. a snowman this year.

Very cool.

There actually is a solid form of MEKP.

Ah, interesting. You're right- I didn't know that.

Edit- seems like it only would form at low temperatures, though, backed up by a madsci thread. You said you left it out? Refrigerated, or not?

[This message has been edited by Random_Looney (edited 11-25-2005).]

What causes it to be solid? Different process?

Lower temp and rapid acid neutralization seemed to be recommended in what I just read.

Cool.

The crystals are clear and look nothing like AP. I refrigerated it during the initial synthesis, then left it out after neutralizing.

I'm guessing it's an MEKP analog to AP dimmers and trimmers. Terribly low yield for my precious 30% H2O2 though.

Tried some ETN today. I used JDP's synth, but dissolving it in water lowered the yields to the point that there was little left! Well, actually, the first time I did it I didn't let it nitrate for very long so that might have been the problem. The second time I did it I just filtered and washed with sodium bicarb and water and I let some of it dissolve in water.

My question is what does ETN look like? It still looks like sugar to me, is it supposed to?

JDPs synth:

http://www.freewebs.com/john_doe_pyro/erythritoltetranitrateetn.htm

[This message has been edited by Dream of the iris (edited 11-25-2005).]

Granted I shouldn't of went off like that and I apoligize to Warweed and BB for what I said. But I still stand by my point that I was making, it was unfair of warweed to just disappear like that without letting me or K9 knowing what the go was, we have lives too and if this board and our lives are to run smoothly then every one needs to pull their weight.

And to Resso, get ya nickers out of a twist, just cause what I said hit a little close to home doesn't give you the right to jump down my throut....See me going nuts about the personal shit he said! Like about Cassie? No...

"But you're no warweed." ...Wouldn't wanna be.

Oh and to what you said about being carefree and all the other stuff...You haven't got the faintist idea about my life so keep those opinions to your self.

quote:Originally posted by AprenticeChemist:

Yea I smell bull shit for the guy that said he made 20grams of AP in class more then once with OTHER teachers watching. I mean its hard enough to find one really cool chem teacher let alone 4 of them all in one spot.

I guess I win then, don't I. :P

I'm thinking my teacher isn't completely versed with organic peroxides, because she doesn't seem to scared of them. The other three teachers watching weren't chemists, just appreciating the boom.

On another note, I'm getting mixed reactions about AP. I understand it's powerful and sensetive but if you're not an idiot with it and use it right away what can go wrong with it? The only things I can see accidentally setting it off is maybe water from the icebath getting in the jar and reacting with the acid and igniting the Ap, accidentally dropping it, and you could get hurt from standing too close to it while it dets and getting hit with shrapnel. Am I oblivious to something here, or am I right in saying if you do the procedure completely correctly AP will not hurt you?

[This message has been edited by tingtonger (edited 11-25-2005).]

No, you're right. AP is not as dangerous as people will tell you. There is a case where a member of BB (maybe just APC) detonated AP by breaking it up with a playing card, but I'm sure he must of done something wrong when synthing it. I don't know, all I know is that AP, as sensitive as it is, is still not NI3

Seriously though, AP is really only as dangerous as its user.

My teacher was drying some NI3 crystals in class the other day in the fumehood, and they blew up in the middle of a lecture :P

Nothing got out of the fumehood, but it was quite the shock.

quote:Originally posted by Dream of the iris:

No, you're right. AP is not as dangerous as people will tell you. There is a case where a member of BB (maybe just APC) detonated AP by breaking it up with a playing card, but I'm sure he must of done something wrong when synthing it. I don't know, all I know is that AP, as sensitive as it is, is still not NI3



It was budget pyro, 10g of AP made at room temp went off on him while it was still damp...He was gently spreading it with a card in his morta and pestle went it blew up.

quote:Seriously though, AP is really only as dangerous as its user.

He wasn't doing anything particuly dangerous other than synthesizing a highly volitile high explosive above the recommended tempreture then placing it in a solid shatterable container



[This message has been edited by 30-06 (edited 11-25-2005).]

Why on earth would you have AP in a mortar (or is it pestle... I can never remember which one's which) in the first place?

I saw those pictures, his hands didn't look too friendly. On the other hand though his hand was still there.

quote:Originally posted by tingtonger:

Why on earth would you have AP in a mortar (or is it pestle... I can never remember which one's which) in the first place?

I saw those pictures, his hands didn't look too friendly. On the other hand though his hand was still there.



Its a mortar and pestle. The mortar is what you put the substance in and the pestle it what you beat it with.

Apparently it hurt alot though mate. Its best to avoid stuff like burns. Although, I agree, he was very lucky.

quote:Originally posted by Dream of the iris:

Tried some ETN today. I used JDP's synth, but dissolving it in water lowered the yields to the point that there was little left! Well, actually, the first time I did it I didn't let it nitrate for very long so that might have been the problem. The second time I did it I just filtered and washed with sodium bicarb and water and I let some of it dissolve in water.

My question is what does ETN look like? It still looks like sugar to me, is it supposed to?

JDPs synth:

http:// www.freewebs.com/john_doe_pyro/erythritoltetranitrateetn.htm[/url]



I really don't like that synthesis very much. Its not detailed or anything. I personally would write the equation and write up my own or find a better one, which I can't seem to find at the moment.

quote:Originally posted by Modzilla:





Its a mortar and pestle. The mortar is what you put the substance in and the pestle it what you beat it with.

Apparently it hurt alot though mate. Its best to avoid stuff like burns. Although, I agree, he was very lucky.

Ok, so he put it in the mortar. And I really hope he didn't use the pestle.

quote:Originally posted by 30-06:

He wasn't doing anything particuly dangerous other than synthesizing a highly volitile high explosive above the recommended tempreture then placing it in a solid shatterable container





That and trying to break up clumps of it. If I remember correctly. It was a long time ago though. You may be able add " free flowing agents " to it so it won't clump up. They're in certain products. And I can't remmeber if it was cardboard or an actual card. I'm thinking cardboard.

Ya, Ya, we talk about AP too much, what is going on with that MEKP?

No one should really give a fuck about 30-06 vs Warweed as far as their person right now. Their standings as how well they moderate the board, and how often they are actually here should be looked at.

The problem is, whenever your supposed moderator is never around until the last minute, its time for something else to be done...(sorry for bringing this up)

I just, really dont give a shit.

quote:Originally posted by smokeymcpot420:

I just, really dont give a shit.

Same here. As long as neither quit or get de-modded, I'm happy.

And RL should be a co-mod or something.

Those who don't care, don't care about the quality and upkeep of this forum, and could care less if kewls posted nonstop, so that it would make them look great in comparison.

Well, I care, Its just like the constant bitching about how its moded. Its their form, Ok!

god lye burns are weird...

i got mabye .2ml on my pinky and now its spread to my index finger from touching it. thers even soem small spots on other parts of my hand from my finger tips touching it. it slowly hurts. like his nasty semi internal itching/pain. my index finger really hurts now. random seering internal pain. im afraid to do to sleep.... dont wanna wake up w/o a hand...

http://www.rctparadox.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/lyeb.JPG

index finger is alot whiter now.

I have yet to see the thread with the bickering mods but yea ill give my two cents on the mods. Random just because warweed has been here A LOT LOT LOT Longer and is one of the most respected members still around or at least at the time when I left he was doesnt mean he is infallible or so much better then 30-06. Warweed was one of my idols and the most respected member to me before but I mean no offense to him but he kind of had a falling off. What with the whole dipping his hands in acid, asking about possibility of having explosives run through his veins, his taking advantage of his respect by starting crappy topics that could use PRRT(personal threads or what ever), and being lazy at times with his posts and other stuff, so he is still a great member hes just fell off and went downhill sorta. Im not saying warweed doesn't deserve respect or anything because he is still a highly respected person in my book but what I AM saying is that he isn't infallible and saying that 30-06 wont ever be warweed is a big insult to 30-06 which is VERY unneccisary.



Now 30-06 is no perfect person either, I mean in retrospect to some members 30-06 is pretty new, I mean hes been here almost 2 years but compared to a bit of the members(maybe they dont post anymroe im not sure), thats not a whole lot, I mean ive only been here a little over 2 years but I remember when 30-06 was a noob. So I mean of course people are going to go with warweed right away because warweeds been here 5-7 years which is considerablly a lot mroe then barly 2 years. And 30-06 has his flaws and shit to.

Plus the fact that if they both were bitching and arguing on the board with each other they both are stupid, they should have taken it out of the board, I mean its bad enough if members fight on the board but they are mods they should be above and beyond the good poster. They should be showing a good example.

But long story short, you can't just go completly against one mod or the other because in my opinion they are about equal as far as stuff goes, and of course people probably have their personal prefernce but yea. And I tried to make my points about the mods as unbiased as possible.

Back to pyrotechnics, can one nitrate propylene glycol? It seems possible since ethylene glycol is nitrated to ethylene glycol dinitrate.

quote:Originally posted by ADP9:

Back to pyrotechnics, can one nitrate propylene glycol? It seems possible since ethylene glycol is nitrated to ethylene glycol dinitrate.

I think ive read somewhere that it is.

It's dinitratable.

Anybody have a good mixed acid ETN synth? iangutz@hotmail.com or post here.

lol yay my fingers arnt white this morning.

quote:Originally posted by AprenticeChemist:

Random just because warweed has been here A LOT LOT LOT Longer and is one of the most respected members still around or at least at the time when I left he was doesnt mean he is infallible or so much better then 30-06.

If you are talking to me, I never meant to imply, nor did I state either was better than the other. Hard to tell if you're saying random, or Random, as in Random_Looney.

Right, well, whatever... before we completly ruin this PRRT...

I got my fish tank pump adapted and ready to pump water as soon as i rig a condenser, i think i read somewhere on it that it can only pump water 20" high... could be pretty problematic... or i could just have the pump parralel to the condenser... As for the condenser, i have a pretty good piece of glass tubing, but i need to make it a little wider, mabey just in little areas, like an allihn bulb condenser, can i do this over the stove with a stopper for one end and tubing for the other to blow into like when you are bending glass tubing?

You rigging up a faucet-less aspirator?

Normal, or pyrex glass? I'm assuming normal. How hot does your stove get? I'm a little skeptical about the ability. You'd melt the plastic tubing and rubber stopper, my thoughts.

Dunno if this can help you, but when my physics teacher was making ethanol (yes, booze in class), and distilling it, he had the tap hooked up to the condenser. A constant supply of cold water that way, hose connected to the tap and the water exiting through a hose and down the drain. Could be an alternative if your pump doesn't work as well as needed.

I've been doing a lot of reading, and from what I see, RDX seems eerily and surprisingly easy, if slightly lenghty to synth. I have almost every chem needed here, AN, hexane fuel tablets, etc. but no nitric acid (but that can easily be made and concentrated). Sounds too good to be true, but I know how danherous such powerful HE's can be, so I'll do some batches of AP and some "safer" ones, of which you have to watch the temperature of, but aren't capable of sending your equipment through a wall at you when you run out of the room because a runaway reaction occured. Just getting some experience under my belt before tackling the "big boys" of pyro.

Hey fellas! I just moved ONCE AGAIN, but this time I got a year lease, and a nice big apartment all to myself, and it's very close to the library, so I can now feed my totse addiction once again. So without that nagging bitch anymore, I am finally free to do what I want as far as chem goes......



So, I have been in the research phase for a few things lately, gathering sources, and information resources, and such, and I ran into a bit of a wall, I can't seem to find a single fucking source for benzene. And the only references I found on producing it involved cracking coal gas, and the like.

So, if any of you american chemheads out there have any idea where to obtain some benzene OTC NOT FROM A CHEM HOUSE, then let me know. And if I have overlooked another method of production that is actually possible outside of a damn refinery then please point it out.

Oh yeah, hehehe, you guys are gonna like this one, a buddy of mine says he has an old car he wants me to blow up for him on a big chunk of land he owns..........

That's right, I said it, I get to blow up a fucking car!

Hehehe, so, anyone got any suggestions on what to use? I was gonna drill holes all over the motherfucker, and pack em with something good, and then wire it all together. I just haven't decided what to use....

I thought about some kind of ANFO type, or maybe something using NG, but now that I will be getting a new lab (YAY!) I could make anything I wanted I guess.

Oh yeah, one more thing, I am gonna drop about 200 bucks on a shitload of glassware at the end of the month. I was thinking of getting one of those full sets from UN, and then just supplimenting it with other things from the site, and maybe ebay. In any case, I am going to have a fully operational, functional, labratory in about a months time! No more using mason jars for synths!



So, about that benzene?

Pack the trunk full of something, see how far you can send it

SN, oxidize toluene with potassium permanganate, then decarboxylate the obtained benzoic acid with a hydroxide, calcium carbonate, a mix of the two, or even (recently suggested by asilentbob), DMSO.

Well this is just a shot in the dark, but wikipedia says "In 1833, the German chemist Eilhard Mitscherlich produced it via the distillation of benzoic acid (from gum benzoin) and lime." I think the benzoic acid is somehow reduced back to benzene (because it is industrially produced by partially oxidizing benzene). You can get ahold of Benzoin Resin from online incence suppliers and maybe even one of those catholic stores. If you're near a big city, they might have a 'church supply store' or something. Anyways Benzoin Resin is mainly constituted of benzoic acid. If you're out of any other options, I suppose its worth a shot.

Benzoic acid is decarboxylated, often in the presence of a strong base such as sodium/calcium/potassium hydroxide, potassium tert-butoxide... to benzene. Benzoic acid can easily be obtained from oxidized toluene. All of these materials are either attainable, or improvisable OTC.

Oh, and SN, if you go the hydroxide route (I suggest trying DMSO and reporting back so I can determine what's best for me), you run the risk of losing some flasks... almost a certainty. You could make a metalpipe setup for cheap, but I dunno if that's what you'd like.

Try lots of different effects on it. If the engine still works, add a bit of NG to the fuel line.

Get some bottled H2 & O2, then pressurize them into the same container. Start heating it up for a nice pure combustion DDT. Other fuels will make better fireballs.

Finish it off with RDX in the front, ANFO in the back.

Whatever you do, be sure to film it. (I trust you're smart enough to use a tripod...)

I'd add to the suggestions if i read what was said, but im pressed for time.

I found a car battery charger and im going to have another go at a chloride cell, i want to use an MnO2 anode, but i havn't been able to find any really useful info on how it is made, or if it is even possible at all, I have heard of thermal decomposition of manganese nitrate.. but thats all... any ideas? This would be an MnO2 on graphite anode, i really don't want to mess around with lead.

quote:Originally posted by stupid noob:

Oh yeah, one more thing, I am gonna drop about 200 bucks on a shitload of glassware at the end of the month. I was thinking of getting one of those full sets from UN, and then just supplimenting it with other things from the site, and maybe ebay. In any case, I am going to have a fully operational, functional, labratory in about a months time! No more using mason jars for synths!



i was thinkin this too, but if you look at it, alot of the glass is for tiny ammounts. honestly, how many reactions you gunna do in a 50ml beaker?

i priced out a buncha stuff, with the glass i wanted, and it really wasnt much more expensive. then just nab a few funnels and or grad. cyl.'s off ebay or somethin.

honestly... will you ever need 20 testtubes for pyro? lol. ive got like 8 and ive never even needed that many.

here is my spreadsheet(in html) of what i plan on getting.

http ://www.rct paradox.ne t/crap/Boo k1.htm (http: //www.rctp aradox.net /crap/Book 1.htm)



[This message has been edited by Lotek (edited 11-26-2005).]

Save it up and buy an organic kit like I did. Never been disappointed with it. I would be surprised if I ever am.

Whats wrong with mason jars?

Just a quick note on the situation involving me and warweed, and this is the last I want to see of it in BB!.

James and myself had a chat yesterday and sorted out our little problems, I told him what my beef was and my reasons for it and we'v sorted everything out. .. So lets all leave it and go on with pyro,

quote:Originally posted by tingtonger:

Again today I synthed another 20g of AP with my teacher, and three other teachers watched it blow. You fellows must have really anal teachers.

wait wtf are you serious?

i should try

my teach is pretty bad ass

hes laid back and all

i had him check my stoiochemistry(sp?) for making some AP and he looked at it and smiled and said good job thats right

hahaha

just thouhgt id share

~Arete

Hurray!

Ok, SN, while i was researching trimethylbenzene i came up with alot of differnt pages that you may find useful, ill edit this post and add the links in a little.

RL, I was planning to use the pump to conserve water, like place it in a salt-ice bath with the output going to the lowest end of the condenser, then at the top of the condenser the tube would go back to the salt-ice bath to re-cool and re-circulate. The inner condenser tube is a piece of glass tubing, not sure what type, but i can bend it after heating the area of the bend up for a little while. The outer tube that holds the water is polyethylene or some kind of plastic from a crappy glue/tube/thing... its about 6 or 7" long with around an inch ID. Im considering adding the "bulbs" like in an allihn condenser to increase surface area for the substance to condense on and decrease the weight of water that the pump has to pump. I still am slightly considering building an aspirator, but i think it woult be all brass... I don't know, i don't have much of a use for it just yet...

Oh, and i found a vacuume aspirator at a fish store today for ~$11, but you would need an adapter or 2, someone here might wanna look into that, it was for cleaning out crap from between the rocks. I can't remember what it was called.

Edit: Links:

mesitylene (http: //www.worl dwideschoo l.org/libr ary/books/ sci/chemis try/Organi cSynthesis /chap11.html)

benzene synthesis (http://sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=325)

Hmm thought i had alot more... well, the thread is pretty long as it is... sodium benzoate or benzoic acid can be found as a preservative, ex: sodium benzoate (http://candlemakers.zoovy.com/product/SADSODBENA?META=froogle-SADSODBENA)

[This message has been edited by asilentbob (edited 11-27-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by Spatula Tzar:

(I trust you're smart enough to use a tripod...)



I told you it was a digital camera! WTF do you want from me!

First Post, Long time lurker(A year and a half, with text files).

What is the best way to light thermite in the open? I know a sparkler works, but would I have to put the thermite in a container?

[This message has been edited by Bipolar Rocket (edited 11-27-2005).]

Magnesium ribbon.

No ideas on conductive and acid resistant binders?

quote:Originally posted by smokeymcpot420:

Whats wrong with mason jars?

It's not "professional".

Have a gander at this.

http://media.putfile.com/thermitef

[This message has been edited by Dream of the iris (edited 11-27-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by smokeymcpot420:

Whats wrong with mason jars?

They can't be heated like borosilicate.

quote:Originally posted by Dream of the iris:

I told you it was a digital camera! WTF do you want from me!

You're awfully cute when you're angry...

Well, it looks like my best bet is some kind of plastic/MnO2 or thermal decomposition of Mn(NO3)2 or MnSO4 on a suitable conductive substrate... I might just have to forget about it... it would be such a shame... i have so much MnO2...

quote:Originally posted by Dream of the iris:

It's not "professional".

Have a gander at this.

http://media.putfile.com/thermitef





WTF????How in hell is thermite going to be initiated with "touch paper", and why was their a pop when the thermite ignited????WTF? how is that gas tank going to explode in such a manner when there is no oxidizer supply???This movie is fucking retarted, no wonder they made a thread about its retartedness. What is the world coming to...

Darwin needs to pay them a visit.

"LETS MIX REALLY HOT STUFF WITH REALLY COLD STUFF!"

They're lucky it didnt explode from iron cooling into a casing.

Look, every idiot knows that gas explodes with a massive fireball when touched by a flame

I just wish they explained how the "touch paper" ignited the thermite.

And should I be offended or flattered by your comment, Tzar?



[This message has been edited by Dream of the iris (edited 11-27-2005).]

I need some input from you guys...

After studying energetic materials for quite some time, I have been thinking, was it really possible for both of the world trade center buildings to fall from airplane impact?

I mean, the buildings were made specifically to be strong against any airplanes that would hit it in the fog. I don't understand how the airplane could make it fall straight down, ironically not really messing up that many other buildings along the way.

I think its wierd that it dropped the same way that you see demolitions experts get rid of structures. It fell from the bottom and swiftly collapsed perfectly.

Does anyone else think that this dropping of this building might be rigged?

I watched them get hit live on TV, I have no doubts. The structural problems probably came from the giant heat coming from nearly full tanks of airplane fuel and the sheer size of the plane.

So you think that the heat melted the steel in the bottom of the building? It seems that maybe only the top of the building would have fallen due to heat.

You forget that alot of jet fuel was sent down elevator shafts.

I wouldn't say melted, but im sure the heat weakened the structure considerably.

Well, yeah, I suppose there could have been fires created in the lower sections as well. I suppose that fuel burns pretty hot anyway.

quote:Originally posted by asilentbob:



RL, I was planning to use the pump to conserve water, like place it in a salt-ice bath with the output going to the lowest end of the condenser, then at the top of the condenser the tube would go back to the salt-ice bath to re-cool and re-circulate.

Thought about as much. You can get a glass aspirator for 10-20 USD. Got mine.

As for the glass, that's interesting. Might work. Let me know if it does, and good luck.

Sodium benzoate/benzoic acid is good, but I don't think it's as cost-effective in bulk.



quote:Originally posted by Dream of the iris:



And should I be offended or flattered by your comment, Tzar?



Both, as long as you shower to rid yourself of the shame. Oh, and make it outside at least once today (I'm kidding! Don't hate me).

Here; you can make fun of me now.



Ladies and gentlemen, I bring you the truth (http://www.anarchistblackcross.org/abc/help.html).



May I recommend reading "Those Crazy Anarchists: Why those kids in black are your friends", and joining me in BI?

Edit-

quote:Originally posted by lacrima97:

I need some input from you guys...

After studying energetic materials for quite some time, I have been thinking, was it really possible for both of the world trade center buildings to fall from airplane impact?



Yes, possible. The two good men above summed it up nicely. The heat probably annealed the steel and all.

[This message has been edited by Random_Looney (edited 11-27-2005).]