Now, ICP, I'd reeeeeally like to know how in the world you manage to pound magnesium flat. In my experience, it breaks or just refuses to flatten. Any tips? Any suggestions as to scraping off bits of Mg faster than a knife/file, as a backup idea?

Thanks in advance...

yes, yes please tell us,please. my mag bar is freaking crushed into medium sized pieces i almost cried, i spent about 6:50 on crushed usless metal.

i use one of those dremel tools for it

Ok ill try and explain a very good method... It used to have a link but ive long since forgotton it...

Ok you need a wide shallow tub of water(or any other safe liquid) in side this tub is a bar about 2 inches think cover or made out of some type of sanding material, this will be spinned by a fast drill or engine, from one side of the tub a 2 by 4 or any strong board will be fixed and on the other end a peice of mg or al will be affixed to the bottom, the metal should be directly above the spinning bar and weight will be place ontop of the bar to press the metal agaist the sanding bar... the powder with fall under water and then you can dry and filter it...

~H

i'd use alcohol for that though to make sure you are getting hte best quality mg and al because in a fine powder like that in the water it will oxidize

Where did you get those bars from???

Well, crap. That's not too useful. I was hoping to know how ICP gets his bars hammered down enough to be cut into strips for the ball mill....

quote:Originally posted by psykopyro666:

i use one of those dremel tools for it

What sort of bit and what exact method do you use?

the drum shaped bit with coarse sandpaper on it. i do it over newspaper and then i just pour the filings into a bottle. however i have never tried to just leave it working when i am gone. i just hold the dremel on it for a while.

be carful not to inhale magnesium dust i did this once with out a mask and was surprised ant how much magnesium was in my body i was blowing shiny snot for a couple of days



any way the way i do it is with a belt sander and a grocery bag i attach the bag at the bottom of the belt sander and near the top to make a catch bag sort to say .. then i sand the hell out of it then when the bar gets hot i dip it in cold water for a bit as im doing this i spary a little bit of water from a spary bottle lightly above the trrack and once on the track to keep the dust down plus it also makes the magnesium fill the pours in the sand paper and makes it less abbrasive ..

then once that is done and i accept my score i place it one a sheet of paper and spread it all out and dry it 2 inchs below a light bulb mayber 3 or 4 at most for about 15 minutes .. once that is done i mill it for about 6 hours... i really have no idea the mesh but it's more then i need ... i can tell that much oh and one thing i have found if you make standared kno3 magnesium flash due it before you use it beccause for some reason if you store it for more then a couple of days it starts giving off a smell like ammonia which i have not been able to figure out any insight on this elder chemists ?

I just hammer the firstarter down until its about 1/8-1/4 inch thick, and start cutting it into small peices. It is really hot down here (average 104, today its 102) so the magnesium doesnt shatter. I would like to try cooling it in the refridge or something, and giving it a good wack and see how small the peices get. Im sure if you cool it enough you can skip all the rest of the steps and it could be shattered small enough to be ball milled.

Like mentioned above, I could use a drimel to get a coarse powder, and ball mill it from there, but I dont have one so I will have to use my friends, but soft metals like magnesium and aluminum get stuck in the grits of the sander and is nearly impossible to get it out. Unless I want to spend money I dont have, I will just take the hard way.

[This message has been edited by IcEColdPlaYA (edited 08-01-2003).]

for the belt sander the belts that are like sander paper are good for filling down about 5 bars of magnessium once that is done you can buy a new belt for about .50 cents lol

so i like it

what about a liquid nitrogen / CO2 cooled ball mill ? it would keep the magnesium cold and brittle while milling it ? i could see this how about the rest of you ??

the only probelsm i could possibly forsee is the pressure of the liqud nitrogen or CO2 in the mill so maybe able to create some sort of one way valve with a filter ?

i dunno just a random brain storm

-warweed12

I was thinking about chilling the mg bar, and smashing it with a sledge hammer as hard as you could. Chilling the ball mill should work, but I would worry about the ball mill parts weakening due to the low temperature.

When I get my lab set up (yeah, I'm goin all out) I'm gonna get a pinch roller from a nearby jeweler's supply store. I'll be able to turn stock into wire, foil, or just streatch it. Cost, about $30. Another $8 for a wire mask.

quote:Originally posted by warweed12:

i can tell that much oh and one thing i have found if you make standared kno3 magnesium flash due it before you use it beccause for some reason if you store it for more then a couple of days it starts giving off a smell like ammonia which i have not been able to figure out any insight on this elder chemists ?

Here is a website that might help explain the ammonia smell http://my.noranda.com/Noranda/magnesium/Working+with+Magnesium/Safety/Magnesium+Reactivity/Nitrogen.htm It might be getting nitrogen from the potassium nitrate if any of it decomposes or from the air in the container. Then all it needs is moisture in the air and you'll get ammonia, although I doubt the potassium nitrate would decompose like that if it isn't getting heat. It might lose an oxygen to form kno2, but probably not break down completely, so the nitrogen is probably from the air. I get the same ammonia smell as well.

that was my though also about moisture and nitrogen from the air but i wasn't sure about thw whole thing NH3 isn't it ?? i fail see how this could happen but yet again anything is possible

Well magnesium will react with nitrogen in the air to form Mg3N2, but most of it will form MgO. Still there is a little bit so when the Mg3N2 comes in contact with moisture in the air, it forms ammonia fairly quickly. Maybe it being in a container with a limited oxygen supply will give the nitrogen a better chance to react forming more Mg3N2 than it normally would under an unlimited oxygen atmosphere. That would be my best guess, but whether if it is right or not, you won't find me trying to smell it.

I guess I'm just not doing it right.... I should leave the Mg bars in the sun/in a greenhouse type thing and then hammer them, I suppose. I've already gotten one flat, but it was more trouble than it was worth, heating it with a propane torch.

Edit: I tried using a dremel tool to grind the bar down, but it took too long, and it threw Mg powder everywhere....

[This message has been edited by Third_Rail (edited 08-02-2003).]

quote:Originally posted by Third_Rail:

Edit: I tried using a dremel tool to grind the bar down, but it took too long, and it threw Mg powder everywhere...

Try using a cutting bit and hold it over a sheet of spread out newspaper.



[This message has been edited by XTheWhitePonyX (edited 08-02-2003).]

quote:Originally posted by XTheWhitePonyX:

Try using a cutting bit and hold it over a sheet of spread out newspaper.

Cutting bit as in an engraving bit??

Another method I like is to take a 1/4 inch drill bit, and drill through the bar multiple times, collect the shavings, and ball mill them.

alright gentlement i have found a good method. you need a big sheet of aluminum or tin sheet metal. some strapping tape.

smash your mag bar into about 25 pieces then add the chunks in the middle of the sheet metal.

fold the sheet in half and fold all the sides so that none of the chunks can fall out then add about 2 layers of strapping tape on the sides and such.

then take a hammer to it for about an 30-60 minutes.

it's a lengthy process but it works good. unwrap the tape and pour out the mag pieces some will be powder some will be about this big: (). just good enough to ball mill.

You should probably put a layer of cloth in between the foil and the tape, since I think the sharp edges of the magnesium metal is enough to cut through the tape and foil. You could also leave it in the freezer for an hour or so, making it brittle and easier to shatter.

Damn this is a lot of trouble to go through just to get some powder for flash.

quote:Originally posted by XTheWhitePonyX:

Damn this is a lot of trouble to go through just to get some powder for flash.

But think how hard it is for people in foriegn countries. The hard way out is the only way for most of them.

or for people in the state like me and duck, we can't order supplies and chems our parents would know and ground us until the next presidental election. i might attemp to buy some fuse though.

we have a hrd enough time making flash and such with our parents around.