As most of you already know I am making Flash Powder, and I am just starting out.

I was wondering, if I put less AL and more perchlorate (lets say 80/20) would it make less noise, but still work ?

Im wondering this because I just lit off my first M-80 today (7 grams) and it was the loudest noise I have ever heard so close to me. My neighboors came out of there houses and started complaining and all, so I think I might need a quiter boom, with the same amount of flash.

Two more quick question.

If I took about a gram of flash and just put it out on a piece of paper and lit it, would it just flash ubruptly or what would happen ?

Also, if I just used AL in a M-80, would it make a boom, or just make a little pop ?

If you were to light a small pile of flash powder, it will just flash, but if you get larger amounts (I've heard as little as 50 grams or as much as 100 grams) it will explode. Aluminum powder itself will not explode or even ignite unless you have an extremely high heat, as in thousands of degrees so it wouldn't work in an m-80.

PS-the flash powder might make a woosh sound when lit off in a small pile, but nothing too big unless you use a lot

[This message has been edited by creepinghorseman (edited 07-25-2003).]

if you just used al all it will do is make a flash with white sparks.

quote:Originally posted by And1Drew:

Two more quick question.

If I took about a gram of flash and just put it out on a piece of paper and lit it, would it just flash ubruptly or what would happen ?



Flash powder, in small quantities, will flash with a blinding white light.

The critical mass (when it will explode unconfined) for high quality flash is ~50 grams.

Think about that before mixing another QP batch :/



Also, if I just used AL in a M-80, would it make a boom, or just make a little pop ?



Al by itself will not ignite contained and ignited with just a fuse. The KClO4 acts as an oxidizer in the reaction

(3)KClO4 + (8)Al => (4)Al2O3 + (3)KCl + ___kcal?

Yea thats what I assumed.

But about the less AL thing, what would using less AL affect ?

Edit* And yea I know that the perchlorate acts as a oxidiser, I just thought I read somewhere that AL will ignite or make a small pop by itself.

[This message has been edited by And1Drew (edited 07-25-2003).]

I don't know if this is possible where you live, but setting off explosives is something that should be done in a remote area. If it must be done in a populated area, it certainly shouldn't be done on your own property. If you do it often (and it sounds like you will) the police will show up sooner or later.

quote:Originally posted by And1Drew:

As most of you already know I am making Flash Powder, and I am just starting out.

I was wondering, if I put less AL and more perchlorate (lets say 80/20) would it make less noise, but still work ?



Don't increase the proportion of KClO4, the 'standard' 70/30 is slightly over-oxidized (if that is a word) as it is already.

Adding more KClO4 will just increase the waste in each product.

My suggestion is find a safer place to light salutes off, or pick up knitting or something.

Yea, I won't be doing the salutes on my property anymore... I had just made my first m-80 and I just had to test it out to see if it worked and all that.

So now that I know it is good, loud, and working properly (it did not just go pop), I can go out to remote areas, like the Valley to light them off.

If you're persistent on making smaller salutes, there are plenty of tubes lying around the house for use.

Find old dry cleaning coathangers with the cardboard tube, or empty saturn missle battery cakes. Be creative.

If you don't have any suitable tubes at your house, you can head down to the hardware store and buy a wooden dowel of your desired ID to roll your own tubes.

Simply cut up paper bags to the proper width and length, apply kraft glue, and roll to the desired thickness.

Allow the tubes to dry slowly in the house to avoid warping.

If you're too lazy for that, then you can simply add less 70/30 flash into your tubes.

Don't worry about the small amounts not igniting in the tube, the inherent 'side split' burn of american visco will ignite anything in the tube.

Yea that is what im most likley going to do, make some big, and make some smaller salutes.

The coat hanger is a great idea actually, and I can get like 5 tubes out of it.

And im thinking of just going down to the pond right near my house, and throwing them in there, I always loved anything that goes boom in the water

And underground is also another possibility for me. Im just worried the sound wont be muffled enough, but I will soon find out.

If you light a small amount of flashpowder on the ground it will make a really bright flash.

Burying the M-80 won't make it quieter, but it will make a cool effect by sending dirt everywhere. I once did this with a quarter stick (30-something grams of powder in a 3.5" tube) and it made a ditch about two feet wide. We did this in a remote area though, and we hid behind a dumpster. (Btw, if you throw an M-160 into an empty dumpster it makes it really loud and sends an awesome shockwave).

My friends duct-tape rocks to m80's with long fuses and throw them in shallow water. (is there anything duct tape CAN'T do?)

Be sure to add gobs of glue to the fusehole to ensure water doesn't seep in.

The water serves to muffle the report and send large plumes of water in the air if it's shallow enough.

You can feel a dull thud in a large radius from the salute.

Cool, in a few hours im going to try using a m-80 in a near by pond, and see how it does.

Just got finished making 5 of them with 25 grams flash (5 g. a peice).

What size tubes are you using for your M-80s?

I bought them from UN... the 1 3/4 size ones.

They are real thick and the perfect size.

Are you using their paper end plugs, or something else.

The best way IMO to plug the ends is to push the paper end plug concave first until there is about 1/4 inch space above it and fill it with glue (I prefer hot glue). They are much stronger than the paper end plugs and they are much smaller, so they allow more room for explosive.

durhams makes nice end plugs so does expoxy not really worth using though. it's expensive.

Yea I just use paper end plugs, and I need less room for flash lol.

I just lit off 3 5 gram M-80's and the things were soo loud.

And yea, I use hot glue to seal it after the end plugs are inserted (not like its needed thouhg).

Sorry about this thread crap but...

I've always used pill bottles. They've always worked fine for me and i happen to have a high supply of them. Do you think using tubes would make it a better use of flash/bp/whistle?

It depends on the thickness of the tube. Pill bottles work well anyway, and with some tape all around it they work even better.

I mean, nothing will beat the thick tubes you get from UN (1 3/4"), but yea... im sure the pill bottles work pretty good if wrapped with alot of duct or electrical tape.

quote:Originally posted by And1Drew:

As most of you already know I am making Flash Powder, and I am just starting out.

I was wondering, if I put less AL and more perchlorate (lets say 80/20) would it make less noise, but still work ?

Im wondering this because I just lit off my first M-80 today (7 grams) and it was the loudest noise I have ever heard so close to me. My neighboors came out of there houses and started complaining and all, so I think I might need a quiter boom, with the same amount of flash.

why not just use somekind of magnesium be it plated, ground, pellet, ect and just use a primitive fuse to light it this shows a very bright (and if enough is used) blinding flash, i suppose if you want to make a quick flash you could use powdered magnesium, flint, and black power, just enough to burn and light then magnesium with a little bit of an explosion, just to spred the flash over a larger area.

Yea but how do I get magnisium out of the fire starters ? I have one lying upstairs but I don't really understand how to extract the magnisium out of it. Is there a stip of it in the middle of the fire starter or what ? Or do I file all the stuff out, and get like 2 pounds of magnisium out of it (thats how much it wieghs abot)

A firestarter that weighs two pounds!? Where did you get yours, the ones I got from wal mart only weight about 35 grams.

Magnesium firestarters are pure magnesium, except for that peice of flint on them. I just take a hammer and beat down on it until it is thin enough to cut into small peice with heavy duty wire cutters. After thy are cut into small peices, just ball mill it for 2 or 3 weeks, making sure to open the ball mill every 12 hours to keep the magnesium from becoming pyrophoric and igniting when you first open the ball mill. After that you should have a high mesh magnesium powder.

i use a belt sander and attached a plastic bag at the end of the grinder to catch what was coming off (make sure you were a mask) i use a spray bottle to keep the dust down and then it leaves you with a descent amoung of Magnessium then i stick it under a heat lamp and rotate it every couple of minutes to dry it out nice and good once that it done toss it in the ball mill for about 12 hours and you got some good Magnessium