Well I am pretty new to the pyro world, sure I have the little fireworks that you buy at phantom and all that stuff, but I want something bigger. Thats what brought me to surfing the web and finding out how to make my own fireworks and M-80's and all that kind of stuff.

So I have been looking around for a few days and I found some places to buy all the stuff needed to make M-80's and cherry bombs (just starting out with these). I bought 2lbs of 600 Mesh Aluminum powder from www.pyrohobby.com (http://www.pyrohobby.com), and 4lbs of Potassium Perchlorate from www.pyrostuff.com (http://www.pyrostuff.com) (for flash powder), along with Sulfur, potassium nitrate, and charcole air float (for black powder). And I actually tried buying those new plastic 7/8" ball shells from www.cannonfuse.com (http://www.cannonfuse.com), and the waterproof visco fuse from them as well.

Anyway I was wondering about actual construction of the M-80's and the flash powder/black powder. Sure I know how to make them/it but is there any kind of tips to making these safley and effective? Like what is your best advice on mixing the chemicals (the potassium perchlorate, and the aluminum powder), (and the sulfur, charcole, and nitrate)? Should I use a plastic bowl and a plastic spoon, or a plastic zip lock back, or both??

And also, when making the flash powder, I read that you can use a 2 to 1 ratio... exe. 2 cups of perchlorate and 1 cup aluminum powder. What I want to know if this will work to the best calaber or not?

And when making the black powder, I read that you should use a 7 to 5 ratio... exe 5 cups sulfur and charcole and 7 cups nitrate. Will this work well too, or is there a diffrent ratio to follow there? And should I mix this the same way as I would the flash powder?

Thanks in advance!

Edit* I keep editing it to find out how the HTML works here.

[Links fixed - DTP]

[This message has been edited by DavidThePyro (edited 07-17-2003).]

You have a nice array of chemicals.

Never mix composistions buy volume. Always do it buy weight. The best way to mix i think is putting the chems on a peice of newspaper and lifting the cornersso it folds teh chems togther. keep doing this until its uniform.

to learn how to do the link thing click here: http://www.totse.com/bbs/ubbcode.html

Rule of thumb...mesurements are always by weight and not by volume unless sepecifically stated. Also, since your new, start out with small batches.

An easy method of mixing flash is mesuring out a 7:3 ratio of KClO4 and Al, putting it in a large ziplock bag, spraying it with static gaurd, and shaking until uniform.

As for the Blackpowder, the general formula is 75% KNO3, 15% charcoal, and 5% sulfer, by weight. For best methods, ball mill these chemicals together for around 3-24 hours, or use the CIA percepitation method.

quote:Originally posted by Wozzles:

An easy method of mixing flash is mesuring out a 7:3 ratio of KClO4 and Al, putting it in a large ziplock bag, spraying it with static gaurd, and shaking until uniform.

If your perchlorate gets kinda chunky, run it through a fine screen or make sure it's fine, otherwise your flash won't do too well. As for BP, look here (http://www.wecreate4u.net/dwilliams/projects.html).

K thanks alot for the information, and thanks DTP for fixing my links

But about the flash powder, 7:3 ration would be like 7oz'z of potassium perchlorate and 3oz's of aluminum powder right (just making absolute sure)? I was never very good with ratios in math so I don't really know how to weigh that out lol.

And should I spray the plastic bag before i put the chemicals in, or after I put them in (over the chemicals)?

Hey maybe if I get the rigth chemiclas i cna do this: http://216.40.249.192/s/contrib/edoom/Wizard.gif (http://216.40.249.192/s/contrib/edoom/Wizard.gif)

You really shouldnt even be messing with flash powder OR M-80s, since you have very little knowledge of anything involving pyrotechnics. You really should start out making smoke bombs, and black powder salutes.

Before you mix the aluminum and KClO4 (potassium perchlorate) mix in a few grams of aluminum before mixing it all in, and press the lumps out. Its a lot faster, cheaper, and easier than a screen. Then you cam mix all them chemicals together.

Im against the diaper and baggie method. I dont trust that static stuff, so I just put the chemicals in a bowl, and mix them with a 3 foot long wooden dowel. If you plan on mixing with the baggie or diaper method, mix no more than 100 grams of flash at a time, and if you are mixing with at least a 3 foot long pole, you can go ahead and mix a MAXIMUM of 200 grams. Either way, static guard is a good idea, and leather gloves, long sleeve cotton shirts, and sunglasses are a must, since 1/8 teaspoon of flash powder is enough to damage your eyes, even a couple of feet away.

quote:Originally posted by Wozzles:



As for the Blackpowder, the general formula is 75% KNO3, 15% charcoal, and 5% sulfer, by weight. For best methods, ball mill these chemicals together for around 3-24 hours, or use the CIA percepitation method.

uhhh isnt that 75% nitrate, 15% charcoal, and 10% sulfur?

Yea I know I am a begginer and don't know much at all about this, but I have to start somewhere, so I figured this would be a easy place to start.

But yea, when using the static guard spray, should i just spray it all over the chemicals, or what?

And since I am the newb that I am, could you explain what a dowl is? I am assuming it is a long wooden or plastic pole used for mixing things, but I am not sure.

quote:Originally posted by IcEColdPlaYA:

You really shouldnt even be messing with flash powder OR M-80s, since you have very little knowledge of anything involving pyrotechnics. You really should start out making smoke bombs, and black powder salutes.

IMHO, black powder salutes are often more dangerous than flash. M-80's have paper endcaps, BP salutes have hard endcaps that arent fragmented by the blast, just thrown really far, and would really hurt if someone were hit.

quote:Originally posted by great glavin:

uhhh isnt that 75% nitrate, 15% charcoal, and 10% sulfur?

yes it is...i was tired...

Ok about the static guard... I just went to home depot and could not find it... does anyone know where to get it (stores in the USA) ??

And when using it, do I spray it on the chemicals themselves or just on the plastic bag/plastic containter ??

You do not need static guard for smoke bombs...

I got my static guard at Radio Shack,kinda expensive. But I heard it can be found at the laundry section of almost any grocery store. I was too lazy to search so I went to the electronics store instead, wasted a good bit of money.

quote:Originally posted by And1Drew:

Ok about the static guard... I just went to home depot and could not find it... does anyone know where to get it (stores in the USA) ??

And when using it, do I spray it on the chemicals themselves or just on the plastic bag/plastic containter ??

Static gaurd can be found at almost any grocery story by the laundry soaps. usually around $3 for a can that will last a long time. When making flash, I usually spray the desk top down first. Then I put the Al in a bag and spray around the bag and then just a tiny shot inside the bag before adding the perch...Don't go nuts with the stactic gaurd though...one application lasts all day.

Ohh I get it now.

Thanks for that info, I will pick some up tommaro.

But honestly, is making flash powder/M-80's really that hard for a begginer, who aced chem in highschool ???

I mean as long as I have the right materials and equipment, shouldn't I be fine making this stuff ???

Yes, you will need the equipment,materials, and most importantly, common sense.

I got my Static Gaurd at CVS/Pharmacy.

A dowel is a wooden round wooden stick, usally bought in 3 foot lenghths. They come in many different diameters. It's main pyro uses are rolling tubes,ramming nozzles,end plugs,etc.,and making paper end plugs.

When you make flash you spray the Static Gaurd on any nearby(like right next to where your mixing it) sources of static electricity.

K thanks.

I actually went and picked up a dowl earlier today at Home Depot... I figured out what they were before

And for making flash powder, should I use a ball mill, or is that just for makeing BP ??

quote:Originally posted by And1Drew:

And for making flash powder, should I use a ball mill, or is that just for makeing BP ??



Okay, what happened to reading up on these things?! Flash powder is an IMPACT SENSITIVE low explosive. That means that if you load it into a ball mill, be prepared to die when you turn it on.

Well, it's a good thing you asked that, or else you'd have destroyed your mill. That's assuming you plug it in via a long extention cord.

lol im a moron... I actually knew the answer to that question, just was not thinking when i asked it. Sry for the completley idiotic and stupid question, I know that flash powder is a very sesative and friction sesative composition.

When people warn you about not making salutes for your first project - they don't think youre incapable of mixing two chemicals together and gluing it together in a tube.

They're concerned about you not treating flash powder (a VERY SENSITIVE LE) with respect.

With flash, there is very little room for error, and by starting 'small' with black powder, you can learn proper safety procedure in mixing chemicals.

I believe that if you treat flash with respect, you can get away with it being one of your first projects.

ALWAYS use non-sparking materials when weighing or mixing flash.

Wear cotton clothing and either ground yourself or liberally spray yourself with static guard.



If your potassium perchlorate came chunky,

(like from the cheap bastards at UN that already gouged your eyes out with their prices)

press it through a kitchen sieve SEPARATELY, or just break the larger chunks with a plastic/wooden dowel.

The SAFEST way to mix flash is with the diaper method.

(If you're really concerned about safety, there's no reason to take a risk and use the easy way out with baggie mixing - no matter how small the risk.)

Weigh out your KClO4 and Al powder, and place them on a large sheet of newspaper.

Raise the corners and let the flash 'tumble' and mix until uniform.

You SHOULD spend about 10 minutes to fully mix the two, but I usually spend around 5 minutes mixing after I got the hang of the technique.

As long as you put safety as your #1 priority, salutes can be a very rewarding investment

quote:Originally posted by IcEColdPlaYA:



Im against the diaper and baggie method. I dont trust that static stuff, so I just put the chemicals in a bowl, and mix them with a 3 foot long wooden dowel.

Mixing flash with a wooden pole poses a HUGE friction risk compared to the diaper method's almost nonexistent static/friction risk.

If you're that mistrusting about the diaper method's static risk, how do you funnel your flash into tubes? With a PLASTIC funnel?

quote:sunglasses are a must, since 1/8 teaspoon of flash powder is enough to damage your eyes, even a couple of feet away.

If there's 200 grams of flash going off and you're anywhere close to it, I think there's a lot of other parts of your body you'd be worrying about instead of just your eyes.



[This message has been edited by orangejuice (edited 07-18-2003).]

Ok about the mixing method... Why would mixing the AL and the perchlorate in a plastic bowl with a 4 foot long wooden dowl be a bad idea ? Given if you spray static gaurd all around the plastic bowl, there really should not be a problem, or would there ?

If my memory serves me correctly, wood does not make or conduct static electricity, so wouldn't wood be a fine thing to use when mixing these chemcials ??

Also, when using the diaper method, should you just lay out one layer of AL and then pour on one layer of perchlorate (over the AL) ?? And then left the corners, or should you lay out half of the newspaper with AL and half of the news paper with perchlorate?

The problem with mixing with a wooden dowel isn't a static risk-it's the same reason why you don't mill flash- the friction.

For the diaper method, just dump all of both chemicals in the middle of the sheet of paper.

Take one corner and raise it up, letting the composition tumble down.

Take two corners and center the powder so it doesn't come off the edge.

Take another corner up and let the powder roll down, ad infinitum.

Talk to Boris. You might change your mind on using the diaper method.

Even though he was mixing a very large amount of flash powder, even the diaper method is dangerous, and there is always a risk of flash powder igniting, no matter if you use the diaper or baggie method, or even using static guard, and im sure that everyonce else here DOES NOT wasnt nearly half a pound of any explosive going off in their face, or while they are holding it. When mixing it with a dowel and a plastic bowl, it might increase the friction, but unless the dowel is on fire, the chance is still very low of 7/3 flash powder ignting, and even if it did, you might get a minor flash burn, a small amount of eye damage, compared to missing arms and 90 percent of your body being burned (which can very quickly lead to death). I take that chance to save my ass, so those of you who worry about that small amount of frition, go ahead and use the baggie or diaper method...

Yea after carfull consideration I have decided to go with the dowl method.

Mainly becasue I have a 5X4' piece of wood and a 4 foot long dowl to do the stiring with. If it does happen to explode it will maybe graze my hand or something, but I will be behind a giant board, so no major damage will happen (most likley).

And I will sand out a paddle like appearance at the end of the dowl, so it will stir easier, and possibly with less friction.