Ok so I finally got my Tubes and fuse in the mail from cannonfuse.com I quickly glued the end plugs in with wood glue and filled the tube all the way up with 3F Elephant black powder. I went outside to light it, but when it went off it just made a "pop" and the end plugs blew out. damnit! So, I'm thinking I either need to make better end plugs (how would I do this?) or buy some of the 7F blackpowder that is on: http://www.elephantblackpowder.com/Fireworks/fireworks.html

Has anyone tried the 7F Blackpowder, will it get the job done? Also does anyone know if they stock that stuff at stores or would I have to have my local gun shop order it?

I'm trying to avoid having to use flash powder because I don't really want to go through the hassle of making my own. Are there places that sell flash powder? If it comes down to having to make it, where is the best place to purchase the ingredients without hassle (want to pay by cash/MO, with no ID)

Thanks for any help!

The tubes from cannonfuse arent that good. I think the ones from UN are much better, and work much better with black powder.

Paper end plugs are meant for explosives that burn faster than black powder, so the paper ones are strong enough to hold before the walls of the tube rupture, which is what gives a loud noise. I prefer using epoxy or wood glue and saw dust end plugs, since they are much harder, and allow the tube to burst before blowing out. Just about any black powder will work in salutes if you know how to make them right, but the finer black powders work the best, so when buying your black powder, go for the finest powder. I like flash powder, since it works much better, and it is cheaper than buying black powder, but if you wanted to you could make your own black powder for 4 or 5 dollars a pound.

Your local gun shop *may* have it in stock. All I know about BP M-80s is that the plugs have to be really thick(best done with hot glue).

First of all, FFF black powder doesn't burn fast enough to be used in any normal paper casing. However it does work quite well with shell casing salutes, COBs, or steel pipes with endcaps. But beware of shrapnel when using any of those.

Second, tubes and plugs from cannonfuse.com are really shitty. The tubes are too big and you can't get the damn plugs in! The tubes might be ok if you made your own plugs, or used glue plugs. Try these sites for info on how to do this.

ICP's Method (http://www.geocities.com/tight_rappa2002/plugs.html)

Rat's Method (http://krimzonpyro.com/rat/casings&endplugs/endplug.html)

Even with good endplugs though, it's still recommended that you fill them with flash or something even faster burning. Black Powder can work in paper casings, but I've found it's much easier and cheaper to just make shell casing salutes. Pour some BP into an empty rifle shell casing, stick in a piece of visco fuse, and crimp the ends shut with a pair of plyers. The report is as loud if not louder than anything you could make with a paper casing, and it's realitively safe because brass doesn't appear to fragment like steel and aluminum do, so there isn't any flying shrapnel.

[This message has been edited by XTheWhitePonyX (edited 07-09-2003).]

Cannonfuse's tubes are too big. A true M80 is 1.5 inches long and 9/16 inches in diameter. It is filled with 2,916 milligrams of flash powder. This is a little less than 3 grams of flash. Flash powder is by far more powerful than any type of black powder there is out there. Black Powder has a deflagration velocity of around 300 meters per second, whilst flash is about 2300 meters per second... You do the math! I have heard bad things about Cannonfuse's tubes, but a true M80 is made with flash powder, and NOT BP. That's simply the way it goes. Although it is possible to create decent BP firecrackers, they no where near to compare to what a little KClO4/Al 7/3 Flash powder can do...

Thanks for the quick replies.

I don't really have any problem fitting the end plugs in. You just have to put them in at an angle and then push them back out to shape them to the tube.

But anyway I'm going to try putting a paper end plug in and then pouring a bunch of wood glue on the inside to try and make it stronger.

If I was you I'd use a hot glue gun...it's gonna be stronger and it's gonna be dry way before wet glue will.

Maybe you didn't give the glue enough time to dry? I use the tubes from UN and when I just started making M-80s, the glue didn't dry on one of the M-80s and it just made a small pop and the tube just uncurled a bit. But then I let the others dry for two days and the worked the right way. Also, I found that hot glue end plugs work A LOT better. They dry a lot faster and the plugs need a lot more force to be taken out.

The best report is going to come from flash. It's really damn easy to make, and I have a list of suppliers Here (http://www.krimzonpyro.com/david/suppliers.html).

Could he have used clay end plugs for a good salute? If not anyone want to buy 5 pounds of clay? I bought ten pounds of the stuff like 2 years ago and I can't remember why and I am thinking that I was really retarded back then to get that much.

Depending on the clay, it can make good end plugs or nozzles.

Ok, last night I put one end plug on a tube and then dropped a bunch of glue/sawdust down the tube until I couldn't see any part of the plug. I let the puddle of glue dry for about 10 hours (wasn't quite dry but I couldn't wait any longer) so I put tissue over it, poured in some BP and then stuck the other plug in and pushed it in so I could cover the outside of that plug with glue. Then I let that side dry for about 5 hours.

When I lit it the end plug with the glue on the outside blew off and the rest of the tube remained together. Atleast one stayed on!

Have patience - let it dry!

Since we're talking about black powder salutes, I have a question.

Does black powder perform better when it's packed into a casing, or when it's loose and the casing is only about 3/4 full?

With thinner cases (like 1/8) it works best to fill it up 3/4 full, or all the way full, but you need room for end plugs. For very thick cases (like 1/4 inch) it is ok to pack it, as long as the end plugs are thick and tightly gripping the inside of the tube. I just fill it 3/4 since it takes less time and powder, but if you have a thick enough case, packed black powder will work better than 3/4 full.

For rpliving, look for 5 minute epoxy at wal mart. It hardens after only 5 hours, but hardens even more after only an hour, so both plugs should dry after about 1 hour and 30 minutes, since after the five minutes is up on the first plug you can go ahead and finish up the salute. It is more expensive than wood glue and saw dust, but it drys hard as a rock. You should also try 1/2 inch thick hot glue plugs.

Alright I might just order some FP crap. Do you guys know if pyrotek.com will take cash or MO?

All these other places say you have to be 21 to place and order. Those people are fucked up.

[This message has been edited by rpliving (edited 07-10-2003).]

I think you can order from pyrotek with a money order. Other places to check out would be pyrostuff.com and pyrohobby.com, both are new so I don't know if they are any good, but it might be worth a try.

Ok I picked up some Epoxy from Wall Mart and made a test m-80 using it. I let the thing dry over night to be sure that the end plugs would stick real good. When I lit it, it was a little louder, but it still just blew off one of the end plugs. I picked up the left over tube and tried pushing the remaining end plug out with my finger, then a stick. That damn thing was cemented in there. I guess 3F BP just doesn't burn fast enough.

So later on in the day, I found a few paper firecrackers left from the 4th. I took them apart and poured the contents into a paper cup, trying my best to only poor in flash and not dirt or clay. I stuck that in a tube and there was about enough flash to fill up 3/4 of the tube. I then used wood glue on the end plugs, but I only let them dry for about 5 mins becuase it was starting to rain. I quickly ran outside lit the fuse, and KKAABOOOOMMMM damn that shit was loud! The tube was rip apart and a shatter blast echoed through my neighborhood. Damn.

Now, the bad part. My mom found my tubes and took most of them away from me. And even though I'm 18 she got mad and told me not to order anymore of this stuff. I don't know what her problem is, she lets me have an AK-47, but she takes my firecracker tubes away. WTF?

So now I don't know how the fuck I'm going to get flash.

You can easily make flash powder from chemicals at wal mart (KNO3 and magnesium). Its a lot more powerful than the stuff in blackcats.

How are you making your plugs? I found that the best way is to take a paper plug, press it in concave first into the tube, push it in about 1/4 inch, and fill them empty space with glue. Try making your plugs like that, and they never just blow out with me.

KNO3 is? They sell this stuff in bags or what?

No, in Wal-Mart it's sold as a stump remover. Grants or Green Light are the brands to use. DO NOT ask specifically for Potassium Nitrate or KNO3, because they will most likely start asking questions at that point.

quote:Originally posted by IcEColdPlaYA:

You can easily make flash powder from chemicals at wal mart (KNO3 and magnesium). Its a lot more powerful than the stuff in blackcats.



what ratio would u use for this?

it would be 50/50, just don't make big batches.

Ok, and magnesium is sold how?

u can get it at camping stores it's sold as a solid block and it's used for starting fires

Damnit, that's going to take forever to make into a powder.

They are sold as magnesium firestarters, and most wal marts carry it, but if not look at a camping store, or the camping section of another store.

Stump remover around here is pretty easy to find, so asking for some is just stupid, and will raise suspicions. Just go to the lawn and garden place, (where they sell fertilizers, pots, and seeds) and grab a bottle or two, and go to the cash register with the blond woman checking people out.

As for the magnesium, just hammer it flat, cut it into small peices, and run it in a ball mill for 3 weeks, and you will get 500+ mesh magnesium.

quote:Originally posted by IcEColdPlaYA:

Stump remover around here is pretty easy to find, so asking for some is just stupid, and will raise suspicions. Just go to the lawn and garden place, (where they sell fertilizers, pots, and seeds) and grab a bottle or two, and go to the cash register with the blond woman checking people out.

How long do you usually ball mill the KNO3 before using it for flash? Would it speed things up a bit if I crushed it up in a plastic bag by hitting it with a hammer before ball milling it?

rather than using a hammer use a rolling pin makes it easyier.

The stuff around here is already powdered, so I didnt have to ball mill it but I did for 12 hours just to make sure it was fine enough. I never seen prills, but you should ball mill it for about 24 hours.