totse.com | If God exists, could He be evil?

conjuror · #1 2006-09-13, 13:36

If God exists, could He be evil?

This is for religious people, especially. You worship God. God is all powerful. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

How do you know that your God has only pure intentions in mind?

~conjuror

free speech no catch

---Beany--- · #2 2006-09-13, 14:24

What is evil anyway?

I still doubt it even exists.

People do so called "Bad" things for many reasons. None of which I would say were evil.

Some people have messed up minds, people act out of fear, people act out of misunderstanding.

Life still goes on.

Martini · #3 2006-09-13, 14:41

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by ---Beany---:

People do so called "Bad" things for many reasons. None of which I would say were evil.

What would you say is evil?

MongolianThroatCancer · #4 2006-09-13, 14:43

no god is not evil, and there is no such thing as evil because god is everything. to be perfectly honest that was kind of a stupid question. god doesn't intervene in human affairs so the whole power thing is human created

Martini · #5 2006-09-13, 14:46

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by MongolianThroatCancer:

no god is not evil, and there is no such thing as evil because god is everything. to be perfectly honest that was kind of a stupid question. god doesn't intervene in human affairs so the whole power thing is human created

How do you know so much about the nature of God? How do you know that He doesn't intervene on human affairs?

Kallisti · #6 2006-09-13, 14:48

If we posit that a God exists and is all-powerful, then He must be the one who defines good and evil. Therefore, whatever God says is right is, and whatever God does is good because no one is in a position to say otherwise. Might makes right, pure as driven snow. Such a comforting thought to be the central tenant of a few major world religions.

---Beany--- · #7 2006-09-13, 14:51

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Martini:

What would you say is evil?

Nothing.

I don't believe anybody does anything with evil intentions.

Martini · #8 2006-09-13, 15:05

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by ---Beany---:

Nothing.

I don't believe anybody does anything with evil intentions.

What is your definition of an evil intention?

---Beany--- · #9 2006-09-13, 15:33

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Martini:

What is your definition of an evil intention?

hehe, well I don't have a definition. Maybe it's because I can't comprehend what "evil" is.

Perhaps evil could be something that has no positivity to it at all. It's negative in every possible way, but I don't see anything as absolutely negative.

What I see as so called "Evil" is the act of someone stepping on someone else to get closer to what they believe will bring them happiness, or less suffering. But then someone who does this could come under the category of "confused" or "Foolish", in which case their acts can be understood and forgiven.

Or perhaps evil could be seen as someone who causes someone suffering for the enjoyment of causing suffering, but does anyone ever really do that?

Martini · #10 2006-09-13, 16:05

If you don't have a definition for "evil" how can you say it doesn't exist?

Quote:

quote:What I see as so called "Evil" is the act of someone stepping on someone else to get closer to what they believe will bring them happiness

People do this. By your own definition some people do indeed have evil intentions. People actually do alot worse to people to get ahead.

---Beany--- · #11 2006-09-13, 16:31

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Martini:

People do this. By your own definition some people do indeed have evil intentions. People actually do alot worse to people to get ahead.

Actually this is what I presume to be other people's definition (Hence "So called"). I wouldn't call this evil myself.

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Martini:

People actually do alot worse to people to get ahead.

When I said "stepping on someone" I meant it figuratively, meaning "Acting towards someone in a harmful way" to reach a selfish goal.

Martini · #12 2006-09-13, 16:47

If you don't accept the common English defintions of "evil" (and why you wouldn't hasn't been explained) and don't even have your own definition, why the hell would you say that it doesn't exist? How can you make any claims about a word you have yet to define?

xray · #13 2006-09-13, 17:04

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by :---Beany---

Who knows geez? Who knows?

Uhh, Good answer, Beany.

xray · #14 2006-09-13, 17:05

He deleted it. Hee-Hee!

---Beany--- · #15 2006-09-13, 17:07

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Martini:

If you don't accept the common English defintions of "evil" (and why you wouldn't hasn't been explained) and don't even have your own definition, why the hell would you say that it doesn't exist? How can you make any claims about a word you have yet to define?

That's a good point, although since dictionary definitions refer to morals, and morals are subjective, how can an absolute definition of evil ever exist?

---Beany--- · #16 2006-09-13, 17:08

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by xray:

He deleted it. Hee-Hee!

Yes xray, I thought I'd continue the conversation after all.

Martini · #17 2006-09-13, 17:15

---Beany---, it doesn't matter if there is an absolute definition of any fucking word. You said you doubt it exists and that you don't believe that anybody does anything with evil intentions.

It's absolutely retarded to say that no one does something, if you refuse to have a definition for what that something is. This is the second thread I'm aware of where you are attempting to wiggle out of retarded statements playing the semantics game.

xray · #18 2006-09-13, 17:19

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by ---Beany---:

Or perhaps evil could be seen as someone who causes someone suffering for the enjoyment of causing suffering, but does anyone ever really do that?

Uhh, yeah. Do you not think there are people like that out there? Do you know anything about the world?

conjuror · #19 2006-09-13, 17:44

well, assuming God is all-knowing and all-powerful

1. He knew when He created us that the Holocaust would happen. He knew that His creations would ultimately lead to a Hitler.

It's like I create a robot with free-will, but I know full well that the robot is going to slaughter 6 million innocent people. I would consider that evil.

2. If God is all-powerful, even if he doesn't intervene in our lives, he has the power to. He could, in theory, have stopped Hitler, or made him good. He could have stopped the tsunami, or Hurrican Katrina. He could cure people when they were sick.

If I knew that someone was going to commit a terrorist attack, kill dozens of children, rape a child, rape their own child, wouldn't it be evil of me to just let it happen? Sit back and watch?

"A person may cause evil to others not only by his actions but by his inaction, and in either case he is justly accountable to them for the injury." --John Stuart Mill

If I knew that a child was being raped, and I had the power to stop it, and I didn't, I think that would make me an evil person. In theory, if God is all-knowing and all-powerful, He does this every day.

[This message has been edited by conjuror (edited 09-13-2006).]

ArmsMerchant · #20 2006-09-13, 18:24

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by MongolianThroatCancer:

no god is not evil, and there is no such thing as evil because god is everything. to be perfectly honest that was kind of a stupid question. god doesn't intervene in human affairs so the whole power thing is human created

Wonderful answer.

I would add that, at the highest metaphysical level, there is no difference between good and bad. Those words a are merely labels we place on things to indicate whether we approve or disapprove of them, they are not descriptive in any meaningful fashion.

Old Alaska saying-- "There is no such thing as bad weather, only inadequate gear."

---Beany--- · #21 2006-09-13, 18:33

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Martini:

---Beany---, it doesn't matter if there is an absolute definition of any fucking word. You said you doubt it exists and that you don't believe that anybody does anything with evil intentions.

It's absolutely retarded to say that no one does something, if you refuse to have a definition for what that something is. This is the second thread I'm aware of where you are attempting to wiggle out of retarded statements playing the semantics game.

No need to to get upset about it dude.

Maybe I'm just not great at expressing myself. Remember it was you who started asking me questions. So sometimes I don't have all the answers so I have to think up shit on the spot. Don't get bitchy just coz you don't like the answers.

Martini · #22 2006-09-13, 18:45

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:

Wonderful answer.

I would add that, at the highest metaphysical level, there is no difference between good and bad. Those words a are merely labels we place on things to indicate whether we approve or disapprove of them, they are not descriptive in any meaningful fashion.

Old Alaska saying-- "There is no such thing as bad weather, only inadequate gear."

There is no difference between good and bad? What language are you speaking? You said this in another thread:

"When I say God, I refer to what some people mean when they say Spirit, the Great Spirit, the Unified Field, the Universal Intelligence, the Force, or simply the Universe. It's all the same thing, and it's all good."

Why bother with that sentence if "good" is not a meaningful descriptor and means the same thing as "bad"? Your "metaphysical" bullshit talk is what has no meaning.

---Beany--- · #23 2006-09-13, 18:47

^Dude, how about you quit being a prick?

Martini · #24 2006-09-13, 18:50

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by ---Beany---:

^Dude, how about you quit being a prick?

If people are going to talk bullshit, I'm going to call them on it. You feel stupid because I showed you how stupid you are? Think before you post next time.

[This message has been edited by Martini (edited 09-14-2006).]

conjuror · #25 2006-09-13, 19:31

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Martini:

Why bother with that sentence if "good" is not a meaningful descriptor and means the same thing as "bad"? Your "metaphysical" bullshit talk is what has no meaning.

+1

I think we can agree that slaughtering an innocent family is "bad" and that rescuing a child in danger is "good."

I'm saying that God created people knowing full well that they would slaughter innocents, and he doesn't use his power to intervene when children are being kidnapped or raped. If you knew a child was being raped, and you had the power to stop it, and you didn't, I think that makes you evil.

I think even the most religious people have entertain the possibility that they could be worshipping an evil God.

MongolianThroatCancer · #26 2006-09-14, 02:11

god is everything, we are god, your desk is god, god is not evil, and no more bullshit on evil because thats just a word someone made up.

ps, i don't really believe that but i have done research on mysticism

Martini · #27 2006-09-14, 02:15

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by MongolianThroatCancer:

god is everything, we are god, your desk is god, god is not evil, and no more bullshit on evil because thats just a word someone made up.

ps, i don't really believe that but i have done research on mysticism

Huh? Are you saying you don't believe what you just wrote in the first paragraph, but you wrote it anyway? Is this a joke post? Please explain.

MongolianThroatCancer · #28 2006-09-14, 02:21

its what someone who believes in god would say since god is just a personification of reality

Martini · #29 2006-09-14, 02:30

There are many different gods that are believed in and many different things are believed about "Him", so no, not all people who beleive in God would say that.

Most people who beleive in God DO believe in evil. Saying that there should be no more talk about "evil" because it's just a word someone made up is beyond stupid. ALL words are made up, but they represent real things.

"Evil" has real meaning, whether or not you pick definition 1, definition 2, etc. What definition of "evil" are you talking about, so we can understand what you mean when you say it doesn't exist?

conjuror · #30 2006-09-14, 02:41

The "Our Father" even says, "deliver us from evil"

MongolianThroatCancer · #31 2006-09-14, 20:14

i just posted what i read in a book on jewsih mysticism

Martini · #32 2006-09-14, 21:32

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by MongolianThroatCancer:

i just posted what i read in a book on jewsih mysticism

You said in your first post in this thread that evil doesn't exist because God is everything and that the OP's question was stupid. Did you get all that from a book?

---Beany--- · #33 2006-09-14, 22:37

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Martini:

"Evil" has real meaning, whether or not you pick definition 1, definition 2, etc. What definition of "evil" are you talking about, so we can understand what you mean when you say it doesn't exist?

Seems like some stupid person got you thinking huh?

Entheogenic · #34 2006-09-14, 22:40

If he's evil, then he's not God--at least in the Christian sense. One of the three essential attributes is omnibenevolence.

Entheogenic

MongolianThroatCancer · #35 2006-09-14, 23:17

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Martini:

You said in your first post in this thread that evil doesn't exist because God is everything and that the OP's question was stupid. Did you get all that from a book?

yeah

Martini · #36 2006-09-14, 23:54

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by ---Beany---:

Seems like some stupid person got you thinking huh?

I can't take the idiocy anymore.

conjuror · #37 2006-09-15, 00:12

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Entheogenic:

If he's evil, then he's not God--at least in the Christian sense. One of the three essential attributes is omnibenevolence.

Entheogenic

In theory, God can make us think whatever He wants us to think about Him. He wants us to believe that he's all powerful, all knowing and all good.

But he could really just be an evil fucker, abusing our trust, and then when has complete control and trust, he rapes us, kind of like some of the priests did, or like some parents and relatives do.

I say it's impossible to be all those things with all the shit that's going on in the world, and I've basically explained why in my previous posts.

Don't you all agree with me?

MongolianThroatCancer · #38 2006-09-15, 00:31

god is just a personification of reality

Martini · #39 2006-09-15, 00:40

I don't mean to keep picking on you Mongolian, but what the hell does that mean?

MongolianThroatCancer · #40 2006-09-15, 05:52

i believe in the bible/torah it says god is one. therefore everything is god, therefore god in reality/existence

redzed · #41 2006-09-16, 06:23

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by conjuror:

If God exists, could He be evil?

This is for religious people, especially. You worship God. God is all powerful. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

How do you know that your God has only pure intentions in mind?

~conjuror

free speech no catch

Could an evil being be god? Depends on one's perspective does it not? What's evil anyway? Pain? Suffering? What is it? Masochists and sadists love pain and suffering how is it evil for them? Is it then one's perception? Is it like hot - cold? cold being the absence of heat, is evil like that? Not really existant, but seeming to exist as a result of not enough good?

Old chinese proverb: Farmer finds horse in field, neighbours say is good luck, now farmer can use a plough, grow more food, become rich. Farmer say: "who can tell if good or bad?". Next day farmers son falls off horse breaks leg, neighbours say horse turned out to be evil luck, farmer say "who can tell?" Next day army press gang arrive and take away all military age boys except farmers son.

My question, if god was evil/had less than pure intentions, how would one be able to discern that?

Namaste