The Banana Argument

[IanBoyd3]

I don't know why, it's probably just me, but over the last few days I've seen the banana argument all over the place. In case you haven't if can be summed up as follows:

The banana is curved perfectly to fit the human hand. The outside changes colors to indicate when the inside is ready to be eaten. It has a tab to allow you to open it. The edges are perforated. Etc etc..

This is supposedly evidence of the fact that God created the world specifically for humans.

Well, when I first saw this I laughed out loud at the irony and saw a key twist that I'm surprised I haven't seen anywhere else.

Reason through it with me.

Ok, so the banana appears to be designed for humans. However, I see a big problem. Bananas grow on trees. You have to climb the trees. Humans aren't made for climbing trees. We have difficulty doing it, and doesn't it seem inconsistent that God would make this fruit so perfectly for us then put it out of our reach? I mean, if the theory is that the apparent design of the fruit which makes it accessible to humans proves that it was designed for us, then it would have to be falsified by proof that the banana wasn't, in fact, perfectly designed for humans.

What, then? What could the banana have been 'designed' for?

Well, let's see. It would have to be an animal with tree climbing abilities for one. It would also have to have a similar hand to the human one.

Hmm, what animal has fingers, opposable thumbs, and climbs trees well?

I'll give you a hint.

http://tinyurl.com/hzfbc

And you know what?

Evolution has been saying that the whole time.

That makes sense, but also, humans CAN climb trees well. Have you seen the kids that climb trees for coconuts? And there are still people that get bananas by climbing.

I don't really see it as evidence for anything though, lol.

The World was made for Monkeyz!

[IanBoyd3]

quote:Originally posted by potentgirt:

That makes sense, but also, humans CAN climb trees well. Have you seen the kids that climb trees for coconuts? And there are still people that get bananas by climbing.

I don't really see it as evidence for anything though, lol.

yes but...they aren't designed to, and the fact that they are out of our natural reach and it is difficult is direct evidence against bananas being divinely designed just for us...which was the point.

And ok...it's evidence against that creationist argument which constitutes something...so I don't really know what you mean by that.

quote:Originally posted by IanBoyd3:

yes but...they aren't designed to, and the fact that they are out of our natural reach and it is difficult is direct evidence against bananas being divinely designed just for us...which was the point.

And ok...it's evidence against that creationist argument which constitutes something...so I don't really know what you mean by that.

Just because it is against one thing, doesn't automatically make the other true...

[IanBoyd3]

The banana argument is an argument for creation.

I just showed how it was wrong.

What's the problem?

[This message has been edited by IanBoyd3 (edited 07-05-2006).]

I guess I misunderstood "which constitutes as something"

I was reading some threads on the Raving Atheist forums and someone said that the modern day banana comes from a mutated strain of plantain invented somewhere in Jamaica. I can not find anything to support this though so I don't know if this is bullshit, if I'm a dumbass, of if this is true. I also came across this image.

http:../../i6.tinypic.com/1z1zers.gif

[---Beany---]

Maybe it was the coconut that was designed for humans.

Joke.

[Slave of the Beast]

God also made the human foreskin, so we could move it up and down the head of the penis with relative ease, thereby encouraging us to play with ourselves.

Clearly, God wants us to masturbate.

quote:Originally posted by Slave of the Beast:

God also made the human foreskin, so we could move it up and down the head of the penis with relative ease, thereby encouraging us to play with ourselves.

Clearly, God wants us to masturbate.

Dis man speaks da trute: Dis statement was typed wit one hand ok?

[Forgotten]

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

Dis man speaks da trute: Dis statement was typed wit one hand ok?

One should NOT establish a persona of honesty and seriousness and then make a joke which seems like it should be sarcastic.

Because now I’m confused as all hell in regards to whether or not I was designed by god to masturbate.



[This message has been edited by Forgotten (edited 07-05-2006).]

[rodrat16]

most fit individuals are quite adept to climbing a tree

its just the fat ones that cant

quote:Originally posted by Slave of the Beast:

God also made the human foreskin, so we could move it up and down the head of the penis with relative ease, thereby encouraging us to play with ourselves.

Clearly, God wants us to masturbate.

But God also demands that we cut off our foreskins as a sign of a covenant between us.

[Rust]

If bananas are an example of "design", then poisonous berries are an example of god being either an utter asshole, or a total moron.



P.S. Bananas don't grow on trees; you really don't have to climb the plant in order to get bananas. Not that it makes the argument for design any less idiotic.

[This message has been edited by Rust (edited 07-06-2006).]

God made the dodo bird fearless of people flightless and apparently good tasting, God clearly wanted the Dutch to kill and eat every last one of them



[This message has been edited by Q777 (edited 07-07-2006).]

[among_the_living]

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

If bananas are an example of "design", then poisonous berries are an example of god being either an utter asshole, or a total moron.



P.S. Bananas don't grow on trees; you really don't have to climb the plant in order to get bananas. Not that it makes the argument for design any less idiotic.

QFT

If the world was made for humans then why in the hell are there so many little things that can kill us, "we will make a world for humans! but! we will also make man eating animals! great idea!"

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

The World was made for Monkeyz!

We are monkeys!

quote:Originally posted by ate:



We are monkeys!

No. We aren't.

[IanBoyd3]

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

If bananas are an example of "design", then poisonous berries are an example of god being either an utter asshole, or a total moron.



P.S. Bananas don't grow on trees; you really don't have to climb the plant in order to get bananas. Not that it makes the argument for design any less idiotic.

Good point.

By the way, I don't mean humans can't get the bananas, but they are out of our reach and clearly not evolved for us, specifically, but for apes and monkeys and the like.

It's just very ironic that creationists would use an object actually 'designed' (by evolution) for an ape to try and show how humans are not descended from apes.

[truckfixr]

quote:Originally posted by niggersexual:

No. We aren't.

You're right. We're not monkeys. But considering that we share common ancestors with them , we're practically their cousins.

Well, I suppose that we're also practically bears' cousins. We share a common ancestor. I'm pretty sure we also share a common ancestor with trees. Are we their cousins as well?

[IanBoyd3]

quote:Originally posted by niggersexual:

Well, I suppose that we're also practically bears' cousins. We share a common ancestor. I'm pretty sure we also share a common ancestor with trees. Are we their cousins as well?

I'm not sure why you would choose to debate this, or why you would use this issue to make a fool of yourself.

You have a common ancestor with your great great grand parents' brothers great great grand children. Does that mean you guys are cousins?

Maybe monkeys were the original humans... they didnt complain, and deny gods existence. They were dumb enough to pick the fruit off the damn tree in the first place.

[prozak_jack]

quote:Originally posted by Slave of the Beast:

God also made the human foreskin, so we could move it up and down the head of the penis with relative ease, thereby encouraging us to play with ourselves.

Clearly, God wants us to masturbate.

Get it right pal, God made the foreskin so that it can get chopped off.

The purpose this serves? None, except for the fact that he's the boss, and we can get fucked by him.

[Fate]

The bananna is a non argument.

The creationist would say that the bananna was made for man to eat it, and probably existed in the gardnen of Eden or what have you. Banannas have all the features listed and they're tasty to boot. God must have designed them for man to eat, right?

The evolutionist would say that the bananna evloved as most fruit so that animals would spread its seeds and it could reproduce over a wider area. Plants can't move (or can't move very well - I'm perfectly aware of tumbleweed and venus fly traps) so it stands to reason that the plants that had fruit and seeds that animals that can move like to eat managed to reproduce over a wider area and became the norm.

The bananna was not created for man to eat it, but it did develop into something he was meant to eat. And hopefully leave the peel lying around with the seed still lying in the bottom of it, wherein it has a chance to sprout somewhere other than in the shade of its parent.

Or maybe just leave that peel lying in the path of the next creationist who walks by...

quote:Originally posted by IanBoyd3:

I'm not sure why you would choose to debate this, or why you would use this issue to make a fool of yourself.

You have a common ancestor with your great great grand parents' brothers great great grand children. Does that mean you guys are cousins?

Yeah. That was kind of my point.

[IanBoyd3]

quote:Originally posted by niggersexual:

Yeah. That was kind of my point.

Oh. Sarcasm doesn't go over so well on the internet.

The banana arguements isnt valid because there are a plethora of fruits in existence. The reason the banana is so popular is due to its shape and taste. Some plantains aren't so easy to manage as the banana. How many fruits don't have the same qualities that make the banana so easy to eat? Very few. So because one particular fruit is so wonderful is proof of god's existence? Even if a god did create the world for human's, how do you know you believe in the right god? Wouldn't it make god mad to worship anything but the right god? So save yourself some trouble and don't worship anything.

I think fruit wasn't MEANT to be eaten, but it just so happens that they contain nutrients that animals need to live. We are only around if the conditions are right to keep us around.

If the conditions change, people will start dying until only people with the beneficial variation are left. So if only a certain group of people could climb to get the bananas, only they would survive and have kids. Just an example.

Does this sound right to anyone?

[This message has been edited by smallpox champion (edited 07-08-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by smallpox champion:

I think fruit wasn't MEANT to be eaten, but it just so happens that they contain nutrients that animals need to live.

That statement does not make sence from either a creationist or evolutionary perspective. One say fruit was made by God to be eaten so peaople and animals can live and the other said fruit was made by plants to be eaten so the seeds can be spread.

The other part of your post is a corect example of natural selection.

[Rust]

Well, the problem is you're using the word "made" as if the plant was conscious and actually made the decision to make nutritious fruits; though that's probably not your intention.

Natural selection would favor any mechanism that would increase the chances of spreading out fertile seeds. Having these seeds stored in a nutrient rich enviornment (the fruit itself) increases these chances, as well as having animals indavertedly spread them around when they eat them.

[Slave of the Beast]

quote:Originally posted by prozak_jack:

Get it right pal, God made the foreskin so that it can get chopped off.

The purpose this serves? None, except for the fact that he's the boss, and we can get fucked by him.

quote:Originally posted by niggersexual:

But God also demands that we cut off our foreskins as a sign of a covenant between us.

Jews.

Why not make it so that man didn't even need a banana in the first place?

I don't believe in God, but at the same time I wonder why plants decided to grow these perfectly edible fruits for some other creature's indulgence. Yes, theres the explanation that it is "spreading seeds", but wouldn't most plants find an alternate, more efficient way of doing so? When I eat a peach, I'm sure to throw that seed away, not shit it out. Maybe nature just doesn't like trash cans. Either way, If humans wanted to adapt to climbing trees like our short, hairy friends (primates), then we could in a couple thousand years of climbing and trying.. eventually evolve to become magnificant tree-climbers. We've just let technology (ladders, ropes) take over for our human abilities, using our mind to work out these problems.

All in all, my point is if we wanted to roam the earth freely, we should all get running now, so that in a couple thousand years we will all be agile runners.

quote:Originally posted by Slave of the Beast:

Jews.

Jesus never told us that we could stop doing it.

[Slave of the Beast]

quote:Originally posted by niggersexual:

Jesus never told us that we could stop doing it.

Galatians 5:2-6: "Pay close attention to me, Paul, when I tell you that if you have yourselves circumcised, Christ will be of no use to you. I point out once more to all who receive circumcision that they are bound to the law in its entirety. Any of you who seek your justification in the law have severed yourselves from Christ and fallen from God’s favor! It is in the spirit that we eagerly await the justification we hope for, and only faith can yield it. In Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor the lack of it counts for anything; only faith, which expresses itself through love."

You vs. St Paul

Guess who wins?