Which side are you on? Why?

I am on evolution's side, since I trust scientists who have provided much evidence and facts to convince me that evolution probably does exist more than people saying that creationism is true since it says so in a book written by people who thought the sun was magic.

Note, I didn't come up with the sun was magic bit, I heard it somewhere else, don't remember where.

And Mike Tyson delivers a knockout blow 33 seconds into the match...

I know evolution* to be true because I have personally examined the evidence and personally done calculations that take into account both a young earth and an old earth. Although the theory of evolution** doesn't explain everything, our observations are consistent with it's predictions.

*The fact that animals evolved from one-celled organisms into the multicellular ones we see today

**The means by which these creatures evolved

wasn't this covered in the origins and civil liberties topic?

I'm with these (http://tinyurl.com/o83vf) guys. You know, the millions of scientists from across the world who also support evolution after examining the evidence available.

There is no battle, anymore than Astrology vs Astronomy.

Those that like to repeat things like "teach the debate" normally have no clue what they are talking about or lie through their teeth. Like our president.

I believe in evolution. It makes total sense to me. Scientists over the years have explained almost everything in the universe and I believe it all. But why is everything so orderly and why does it work so well? I believe that a higher power planned out evolution and how everything should work then started the ball rolling via The Big Bang.

I believe in evolution 100%

Definately evolution. It makes sense.

People who don't agree usually are (a) ignorant or (b) sheep that know nothing else but following.

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

I'm with these (http://tinyurl.com/o83vf) guys. You know, the millions of scientists from across the world who also support evolution after examining the evidence available.

Agreed.

Obviously evolution.

I am with evolution.

Scientists have proven time after time that some things are just to significant to be an coincidence. You can't blame anyone for believing anything though, some people are brought up to believe something while everyone has to be brought up in school where evolution an science is taught.

The thing that perplexes me, is the fact that the universe is infinity in size. My human brain is too simple to comprehend this fact. If I did find out just how big infinity is, it would be possible that my head would explode!

As far as I'm concerned there's no contest.

Evolution is the best explanation.

Though I don't suppose there's going to much of a battle here. Can't see too many people arguing the side of Creationism here.

Jx

Not sure if battle is the right word here, the people I have met who support creationism generally refuse to argue. Anyhow, evolution can't really lose to a book of 10th hand bar stories.

Damn, I was really hoping to piss off some hardcore Christians.

And they can't coexist because...?

quote:Originally posted by King_Cotton:

And they can't coexist because...?

The Bible keeps detailed geneologies. So detailed that you can add up the ages of everyone from Jesus to Adam and Eve. Thus a literal interpretation of the Bible mandates an Earth that was created 6,000 years ago. Furthermore, according to the bible, God created today's animals in their current form (it should be noted that he did this before he created humans according to Genesis 1, but after he created humans according to Genesis 2). He did not create a bunch of primordial slime that eventually evolved into complex lifeforms as evolution suggests.

The genealogies aren't that exact and the date can vary based on a number of assumptions. I've seen calculations from 12,000 to 6,000 and in-between. The most famous is by ussher and is normally what most people get their date from.

You should also add that a literal interpretation of the bible and evolution can't coexist. (Just like a literal interpretation of the bible and the solar system have problems getting along with each other.) But a non-literal view can.

Unfortunately, most people who believe in the bible take it quite literally.

quote:Originally posted by ParkedCar:

I believe in evolution. It makes total sense to me. Scientists over the years have explained almost everything in the universe and I believe it all. But why is everything so orderly and why does it work so well? I believe that a higher power planned out evolution and how everything should work then started the ball rolling via The Big Bang.

It's not orderly though. My biology teacher last year had a good point; if god created everything, why are there such disgusting creatures as leeches, lampreys, guinea worms, loa loa worms, fleas, and ticks? Also, things like trilobites. Why create them just for them to become extinct for no apparent reason? I think we're just here by somewhat random (and lucky) chance, and if it wasn't mammals that had become so advanced, it would be reptiles. Or birds, who knows.

But anyway. I don't know, I have a vague belief in a god but I definitely believe in evolution 100%.

I feel this argument is far too one-sided, making it boring as hell.

therefor, placing my complete support of evolution and the scientific method aside....

The existence of a god, even just the possablity for any being which is not regulated by laws or physics as almost everything in this universe is (exception: singularities?) completely disrupts scintific thinking.

If god exists and does not need to follow the path of logic, all things are then possible, Everything.

Therefor creation would be a possible occurence. Hell, anything would, including north being a shade lighter than pink.

quote:Originally posted by Niceguy:

The existence of a god completely disrupts scintific thinking.

If god exists and does not need to follow the path of logic, all things are then possible, Everything.



lol GOD INVENTED "The Path of Logic" and Manifested the Scientific Laws which govern all things...God also manifested the system of evolution, why don't Creationists just say that!?

the basic unit of autonymous life is the cell. To have replicating life we need.

A code-eg DNA

A means of reading the code- eg RNA + ribosomes

A translated product versitile enough to fulfil structural, enzymatic, receptor and messenger roles-ie protein

An energy transducer- eg chlorophil

Everything on this list has to be bound up together. It is no use having them apart.

So Where did the first cell come from?

Suppose we have a DNA strand coding for ribosomes, chlorophil, cell membrane proteins respiratory enzymes, mitochondria etc. It could not reproduce. It would need these things to be able to read its code.

Catch-22. How can our DNA strand code for these things if it needs these things to code?

P.S> I have heard of the anthropic principle. I do know the universe is a big place and has been there for a long time. The Odds against strands of DNA randomly forming and bumping into randomly formed molecules that read DNA is rather slender dont you think?

The base unit is not a cell, RNA is closer to a 'base' unit of all life.

Who said things happen randomly? If your mom dropped you as a baby, what is the chance you will hit the ground? Is it a purely random chance?

I have to take a moderate position. I belive the Lord has created the beings we see today. I belive that god created the bases of life and helped guide the way things unfold. Things may evolve, yet the lord created the originating animal from which it came.

basically:

-God created many primordial beings...

-God let them evolve into what we see today...

-Evolution exists yet is influenced ocasionally by god...

-unexpected events [satan's involvement, ect...] throws off evolution and the devolopment of the world.

quote:I have to take a moderate position. I belive the Lord has created the beings we see today. I belive that god created the bases of life and helped guide the way things unfold. Things may evolve, yet the lord created the originating animal from which it came.

basically:

-God created many primordial beings...

-God let them evolve into what we see today...

-Evolution exists yet is influenced ocasionally by god...

-unexpected events [satan's involvement, ect...] throws off evolution and the devolopment of the world.

Wow, now thats a good explanation. It makes a lot of sense.

quote:Originally posted by doctor drunk:



Catch-22. How can our DNA strand code for these things if it needs these things to code?

P.S> I have heard of the anthropic principle. I do know the universe is a big place and has been there for a long time. The Odds against strands of DNA randomly forming and bumping into randomly formed molecules that read DNA is rather slender dont you think?

The relationship between DNA/RNA is hardly random or spontaneous. DNA replication, RNA synthesis and protein synthesis are complex processes and are not a result of two molecules bumping together and thinking 'Holy Crap! I can code for me and you can help me replicate! What a coincidence!' (The fact that there are more molecule than DNA and RNA, such as enzymes, involved in DNA replication show that its not that simple)

It is quite possible that the relationship between DNA/RNA/proteins has changed since the very first organism (or even molecule of that type.) It may be that one of the other were originally able to synthesise themselves and catalyse their own reactions and that this more dependent relationship came to exist because it was of lower energy or advantageous in some way.



I think you all guessed I'm not a creationist.



EDIT: Ohh, someone agrees with me! http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/News/2005/October/12100502.asp



[This message has been edited by flatplat (edited 06-30-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Mr. McBee III:

I have to take a moderate position. I belive the Lord has created the beings we see today. I belive that god created the bases of life and helped guide the way things unfold. Things may evolve, yet the lord created the originating animal from which it came.

basically:

-God created many primordial beings...

-God let them evolve into what we see today...

-Evolution exists yet is influenced ocasionally by god...

-unexpected events [satan's involvement, ect...] throws off evolution and the devolopment of the world.

I don't agree with some of what you said:

I believe the story is the same, the basis of life and the first single cell type organism evolving from nutrient rich carbon matter or mud in a primordial pool under the right conditions, and that in the oldest religious stories trying to explain that.

I believe that God is active in everything, and that you are completely dependant on God every moment, in everything you do: from the thoughts you can possibly think, to the possible actions you can take, nothing would be able to happen without God, so in that sense, the Evolution, the birth of the universe, and everything has to do with God, God is what allows it to happen, created the systems for this reality, and allows them to run, they can not run without God, nothing can, because God is what they exist within.

I don't agree with the "Influenced Occasionally" statement, as it seems to somehow sound like a humanization of God: God is the only influence essentially in everything, but I believe the systems are allowed to run and nothing can happen without God.

"-unexpected events [satan's involvement, ect...] throws off evolution and the devolopment of the world."

I don't agree with that, I don't believe anything is unexpected, that life isn't for God to see but rather for Us to see, furthermore that Satan isn't an enemy of God but an enemy to us, that nothing can throw off evolution and the development of the world, that everything is running its course. Satans influence being a minimal force in existance (a description of negativity, negative suggestion), human beings having the full responsibility over their actions.

quote:Originally posted by jsaxton14:

(it should be noted that he did this before he created humans according to Genesis 1, but after he created humans according to Genesis 2)

It should also be noted that the Bible is a Faith Book, not a History book, and should be interpreted as such (i.e. contextually, not literally).

What about both?

First, evolution came as far as chimpansees and stuff.

and then, aliens recreated ape DNA to make humans?



I don't say this is true, but it's definately possible.