Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Aeroue:
Abrahim your argument is still no good.
So you are saying that everything is dependent on this thing called reality, but this reality is not what most people actually comprehend as what reality is.
The universe and everything within it comes from reality.
This sounds identical to the theory that everything is dependent on this thing called God, which is a necessary being nothing could be without.
Stating universe and everything within it comes from God.
Where did reality come from? How can reality create? Reality is just a concept reality cannot live or make decisions.
For something to be a God it must have free will, we worship God because he made us.
How can we worship something like reality that is incapable of such choices?
How can something be a God if it not alive in some way?
|
Man, Reality didn't come from anywhere, its essentially all there is and every was, take away the universe, Reality was still there, Reality is what all things exist within.
"God is Reality. The Ultimate Reality. The Reality we exist within, interact with, are made of, where all possible perceptions of all possible things can occur, if the option for the thought is not available, you can't think it. The System is smooth, flawless, perfect, without Glitches.
People question the "control" of God without seeing how in fact they are completely limited and dependant on Reality. They look for something within Reality, when Reality itself is The Only God.
I don't only mean objective physical reality, I mean the subjective reality too, what we can think, a superimposed hallucinatory image, what matter is it made of? The actual image is not made of any matter, yet it is still an option within this Reality, or else you wouldn't be able to think it.
God is The Reality, there is no God but this. People say they will believe when they see some large being come down from the sky? Yet any large being that may come down from the sky is within reality, made of reality, limited by reality, thus Reality remains the True and Ultimate God.
The Ultimate Reality is where we exist, where this universe is, essentially it is the only thing, that ever was or will be.
Nothing does not exist, what I mean to say as, True, Absolute Nothing, does not exist, as something (this) can not come from Nothing. Nothing always remains as Nothing, it has no capability to manifest.
On the other hand, Ultimate Reality has always existed, there is nothing beyond it, it is all there is and ever was, it is the manifestor of all possibilities, all realities, including this one.
It is "alive" if it were dead, inactive, then so too would we be non active, incapable, non existant, All things are in motion constantly.
God is The Reality, all things are part of the Reality, made up of the Reality, dependant on the Reality. You can call it anything, from God, Allah, The Tao, The Force, The Brahman, its one thing, all of the above were words to describe it but some ended up humanizing it. It is not a human, it has no form, it is infinite, it has no limits, it is the only power, the ultimate power.
Why would one deny evolution and the processes of this universe? They are made manifest and clear. But to deny Reality would be the mistake, and Reality is the only God, the Ultimate God. The sustainer of Worlds, the Supreme "King", The Provider of all things.
Prove to me Reality does not exist? You can't without blatant denial of yourself and all that is within and without you. Reality is God, the Only God. We are all within it, and Nothing is without it.
quote:
Originally posted by truckfixr:
I can agree with you up to a point. Reality exists. Beyond that, you are stretching things a bit.
Reality is not a sentient being, thus it honestly cannot qualify as being a God. You're calling it so is based on your opinion/belief. Not on emperical evidence.
I'm not saying it is sentient in the way we are sentient:
Here is the definition from www.dictionary.com
sen·tient ( P ) Pronunciation Key (snshnt, -sh-nt)
adj.
Having sense perception; conscious: âThe living knew themselves just sentient puppets on God's stageâ (T.E. Lawrence).
Experiencing sensation or feeling.
____________________________________________
Everything is made of Reality, including our feelings, and our ability to be sentient. Everything is within Reality, everything is in constant motion. Reality is not "dead" or else that would mean it would be nothing and not exist at all, nor would any thing manifest, exist, or manipulate, or even have a plain on which to exist, nor would or could anything manifest, appear or even move.
Reality is "Alive"
a·live ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-lv)
adj.
Having life; living. See Synonyms at living.
In existence or operation; active: keep your hopes alive.
Full of living or moving things; abounding: a pool alive with trout.
Full of activity or animation; lively: a face alive with mischief.
Main Entry: alive
Pronunciation: &-'lIv
Function: adjective
: having life : not dead or inanimate
Clearly Reality is Animate, we and everything is proof of this.
Ultimate Reality is "Aware" of all things existing within it, the proof of this is in the manifestation of all the available possibilities for us and our ability to execute them, furthermore our personal Awareness being proof of "Reality posessing Awareness". Besides all that, if Reality were not "Aware" those things it is "Unaware" of would not exist.
Aware
adj 1: (sometimes followed by `of') having or showing realization
We and everything around us are the Realization of Reality.
re·al·i·za·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-l-zshn)
n.
The act of realizing or the condition of being realized.
The result of realizing.
Manifestation:
man·i·fes·ta·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mn-f-stshn)
n.
The act of manifesting.
The state of being manifested.
An indication of the existence, reality, or presence of something: A high fever is an early manifestation of the disease.
man·i·fes·ta·tion (mn-f-stshn)
n.
An indication of the existence, reality, or presence of something...
Main Entry: man·i·fes·ta·tion
Pronunciation: "man-&-f&-'stA-sh&n, -"fes-
Function: noun
: a perceptible, outward, or visible expression
There is your "Creation" The Manifestation of this Reality which is within Ultimate Reality, which is the Manifestor. To call it the "Manifestor" is not innacurate as clearly, we are manifest and here to prove it.
The funny thing is "We are witnesses unto ourselves" what I mean to say is "we are the proof against ourselves" So is everything else!
So to Recap, We and All that is, ever will be, ever was, ever can or will be, in this or any other reality, belongs within Ultimate Reality. Ultimate Reality is what we are "Manifest" within. There is no Diety or God greater or mightier than this, and it is not a humanoid or anything of the sort, nor does it operate or think like us, it is infinite, the proof of its life is in the movement of all things, the proof of its awareness is in our being manifest. If it did not "know" we would be "dead" or inactive in it. know ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n)
v. knew, (n, ny) known, (nn) know·ing, knows
v. tr.
To perceive directly; grasp in the mind with clarity or certainty.
To regard as true beyond doubt: I know she won't fail.
To have a practical understanding of, as through experience; be skilled in: knows how to cook.
dead ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dd)
adj. dead·er, dead·est
No longer in existence, use, or operation.
We are the proof amazingly, yet we look everywhere for something that doesn't exist, when "God" is right infront of us, we are operating through it. We are sufficient proof of it. The Ultimate Reality, we are within it, it is without us, self sufficient, be it that we exist or not, it is ever living, before and after. Call it what satisfies you, it is one undeniable thing, to deny it is to Deny the Truth, Yourselves, The Reality which you exist within.
ex·ist ( P ) Pronunciation Key (g-zst)
intr.v. ex·ist·ed, ex·ist·ing, ex·ists
To have actual being; be real.
It is one God that has appeared throughout history, constantly mutated by the minds of men which belong to it completely, for their form to the possible thoughts they can possibly think. Even the most ancient hunter gatherer societies have this most ancient concept ingrained into their personal religions, even so, athiests deny it due to their definitions of God which they base of the corruptions of humans. God is and has always been "The Ultimate Reality" Never has "God" been a man in the sky, some being with a form, or anything possible within Ultimate Reality because it, itself is Ultimate Reality and all things are within it, not without it.
Its been called many things, though it is one thing, and so too are we, who all belong in it and exist only within it and because of it, are one with it, yet we deem ourselves self sufficient, we are completely dependant. We are under its controls by its limitations. It is beneficent in its gamut of options which it has bestowed us, to do what we wish, and all things having their cause and effect.
People claim that this world is IMPERFECT, do they see glitches? Does your computer screen suddenly dissapear forever with no explanation right before your eyes? The System is Perfect, This Reality is Perfect, Ultimate Reality is Perfect, if it is incapable of one thing it is Imperfection, as Imperfection is Nothing, it can not manifest.
All Religions are an attempt to explain this truth in a way people can understand. Many get close. Christianity tries in its own way but its humanizations mislead.
The first beliefs understood this, it was understood all was a part of Reality, then each part, to explain the phenomena was accounted a spirit of action, originally accepted as part of the One, but later misrepresented through alagory and explanation as its own part, and all beliefs have this core, as does human existence, since it is undeniable.
Each Religion from the most ancient to the new says it in their own Way and tries to make the message clear. It is one Message. There is only One Religion.
The only dispute and matter of "Faith" should be in an afterlife or ressurection.
But even so, that concept is there, once again reflecting ultimate Truth, that to everything there is a Cycle, even so to this universe, it expands and will collapse and restart. The Night and the Day and the Night and the Day. The land grows dry and dead and then rains bring out the life again. A million metaphors to represent the ultimate cycles within Reality.
truckfixr
Moderator posted 05-27-2006 15:29
Merriam-Webster online:
Main Entry: re·al·i·ty
Pronunciation: rE-'a-l&-tE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ties
1 : the quality or state of being real
2 a (1) : a real event, entity, or state of affairs <his dream became a reality> (2) : the totality of real things and events <trying to escape from reality> b : something that is neither derivative nor dependent but exists necessarily
- in reality : in actual fact.
I assume that it wasn't intentional that you neglegted to provide the definition of reality, since you were so willing to provide so many other definitions.
You are giving the attributes of a living being being to that which is not. Simply because livings exist in reality, does not infer that reality is aware. Reality is not an entity.
Abrahim
Regular posted 05-27-2006 16:28
Reality is obviously not aware in the way we are but Reality is aware, the fact that we exist being that awareness manifest. If not we would not exist, but true that to us sounds humanization, but I don't mean it that way AT ALL.
en·ti·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nt-t)
n. pl. en·ti·ties
Something that exists as a particular and discrete unit: Persons and corporations are equivalent entities under the law.
The fact of existence; being.
The existence of something considered apart from its properties.
If anything, in that case, Reality would be the only Entity, what we all exist within, what only exists, what we are all made of. That would only be according to definition 2 of the word. In any case, everything is within and part of one thing, and that is Reality, it is infinite, essentially it is all there is.
in·fi·nite ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nf-nt)
adj.
Having no boundaries or limits.
Immeasurably great or large; boundless: infinite patience; a discovery of infinite importance.
Mathematics.
Existing beyond or being greater than any arbitrarily large value.
Unlimited in spatial extent: a line of infinite length.
Of or relating to a set capable of being put into one-to-one correspondence with a proper subset of itself.
FROM OTHER TOPICS RANDOM QUOTES:
Abrahim
Regular posted 05-21-2006 16:30
This was posted in another topic but is relevant here:
I will never believe in a God that is limited to a form or visible. Why? That would mean God is encompassed by Reality, that the possibilities of Reality allow the possibility of God to be visible and would be limited to a visual form. My God is Reality, what encompasses everything, what you and I are within, made of, interacting with. We "See" God and experience God every moment of our lives without realizing it. You are as much a part of God as Me, or the Air, the the tree, or a little grain of dust, or the universe. God is One, essentially God is All there is and Ever was. God is Reality, the Ultimate Reality. It is alive, conscious. How do we know it is alive, conscious? If it were "dead", or unconscious, not a single thing would happen, not a possibility could exist. We are active, alive, moving within Reality, utilizing Reality, everything is in constant motion, proof of its "life". It is surrounding us, encompassing us, the ultimate control, unescapable authority, yet we call other things, things within its realm "God" when it, and only it is The True God.
It is what makes all possibilities available to us, all the things we can possibly do or possibly think, all the things that can possibly exist within this reality are existant only because it has allowed it to exist and manifested those options. If the option didn't exist, we wouldnt be able to do it, or think it.
Reality is something often taken for granted, people look for Gods when God is always right infront of them, behind them, everywhere, but some don't comprehend.
Who knows how many possible realities, alternatives, different systems and physics may exist within Ultimate Reality, which encompasses all, we will never know other than our own Reality and its options. This is because our Reality can not process or acess any other Reality or system that does not posess the options that our reality has.
What I believe with certainty is there is No God other than Ultimate Reality, that everything we know, and what we don't know, all the possibilities performed and unperformed, that are available to us to do or think, were manifested by it. Reality is what has always existed, all things are in motion, it is "alive" in that sense. Not a single thing can come from absolute nothing, absolute nothing does not exist, nor has it ever existed, if it ever existed it would still exist and something can not come from absolute nothing, absolute nothing always remains absolute nothing. Ultimate Reality, the plain in which all things can exist, has always existed. All things exist within Ultimate Reality, including our Reality, our Universe, and all that is within it.
Submitting to Reality, attempting to at least grasp a little understanding of it, humbling oneself to the ultimate power, and living a life in congruency with what is best for you can be goals to attempt to achieve.
Can God communicate to mankind? How?
We do the thinking, the processing of information, the possibilities are all available provided by Reality. "Inspiration" is the form in which true prophets are said to recieve their information, this is that their conciousness becomes clear and understanding is granted.
I do not believe any true prophet sat there and thought out what they were going to say and then claim it was from God, but rather that their "Inspiration" was like an enlightenment of mind in which they recieved tremendous amounts of information and understood to some degree. The possibility for that to happen existed, their minds did the work and the processing, they spoke the words "God Inspired". A State of clear conciousness, to them it didn't feel like they were doing it or thinking those things, accessing knowledge which they did not posess, but the knowledge was there, their awareness was raised to a point of inspiration from "Reality" and that is the fashion in which God can communicate to people. It is still within the bounds of our understanding, inspiration never took the form of a series of numbers or digits which not even the Prophets could comprehend or see the relevance of.
There are no glitches in the system that we are aware of, no point in which suddenly this screen dissapears randomly, everything is smooth.
A short Recap of the Above Concepts:
God is not a form within Reality, but rather God is The Ultimate and Essential Reality, what everything exists within and is made of. I would resist anything within Reality, within the possibility of existing in Reality as God, knowing the Most Superior is what provides all the options, what everything exists within. Essentially, God is One, everything is a part of it, it is infinite, formless, beyond our Universe and Reality, it is the Ultimate Reality which only exists and encompasses all, all are made of it, existing because of it.
No matter what one might think, nothing is self sufficient, all things are completely dependant on reality, completely restrained by the gamut of options available to us.
Ultimate Reality is "Alive" its nature as living can be seen in our life, in the movement of all things, if it were dead, it would not exist, nor would anything, nothing would move, there would be no options, nothing would have ever been manifested in the first place and there would be no options to hold any possibilities.
God communicates to the prophets through "inspiration". I do not believe the Prophets were aware of their own minds activity in the process, but genuinely felt the clear consciosness and understanding of being "inspired". I do not believe they deliberately chose or carefully devised what they said, but were in a state of clearity, almost trance, when being inspired.
I agree with what agrees with me. I believe the prophets came to similar conclusions through inspiration, my conclusions are based on the revelations in the Qur'an. (This is discussed in my Islam Topic, you can read about it on the second to last post on the first page.)
Does Reality want us to be a certain way? Some things are clearly indicated and developed through natural processes provided by Reality. I do believe concepts of right action, being a "good human" came originally from these inspired states as they are part of being congruent with reality, doing what is intended, submitting ones will to Reality.
Is there judgement? I won't risk it as I have no knowledge of the future. I will do what is outlined in the revelation that was "inspired" and will hope to be rewarded, if there is absolutely nothing, then I will simply remain dead. I will not risk ultimate failure and loss on conjecture or belief in a future that I can not be certain of, I can not be certain that there is no Judgement no matter what anyone claims to its absurdity, and I will not gamble with such a risk, especially when the warning comes from a Book which has provided me my main concept, that God is Reality. I believe the message is true.
Feel free to ask questions in any of my three topics, "The True Religion", "What is God?", and "Interested in Islam?".
I apologize for the length of this post, I thank any of those who managed to read it, I am glad if anyone enjoyed it or gained insight from it.
The True God will never be limited to a form within Reality. Reality, what everything exists within including us is the only True God, provider, "controller", the Control and Provision is in the options it has provided which each play out every moment.
"
Switch to Linear Mode
Switch to Hybrid Mode
Threaded Mode
