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| My God Can Beat the Shit Out of Your God For discussing any and all religious viewpoints. Intolerance will not be tolerated. Keeping your sense of humor is required. Posting messages about theological paradoxes is encouraged. |
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# 1
2006-06-09, 02:21
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Quote:
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Do you think humans are the same as they were 10 000 years ago?
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She responded
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Yes. We are all unique individuals created by God. What else is really important? God made the people thousands of years ago - with unconditional love, and he creates us now - with the same unconditional love.
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And then another question by me
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So humans are in no way faster, stronger or smarter than they were 10 000 years ago?
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Quote:
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God created us with love - and a passion to learn. its not for me to decide whether God said "i want people today to be smarter, taller, better looking, and be faster runners". The only thing i can tell you is that He creates us with that love - willingness to return love, and a mind of our own so we can live an abundant life in Him. Theres no difference between Gods love for you, me, Einstein, and Hitler. He loves each person the same way - its our decision though whether we will experience that relaitonship and unconditional love he promises to us.
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My question is, why can't religious people answer a question without delving into some completely bullshit backing? I simply don't understand. Please, help me.. help
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# 2
2006-06-09, 04:35
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Stephanie:
Quote:
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I believe people are very similar generally in nature to how they were 10,000 years ago. I don't believe we are vastly different in the way we think and understand. Typically I believe underneath and in the most basic form we have the same motivations and desires and ways of persuing them.
We have new technology, new words, new concepts to mention, but underneath it all we're still human beings, and we like similar stuff.
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# 3
2006-06-09, 05:06
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It isn't religious people, it's just Christians. I saw a debate between a Christian and a Muslim, the Muslim put up some questions, the Christian avoided answering EVERY question. He babbled on about racism or something.....go figure.
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# 4
2006-06-16, 08:57
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What a t00l... He doesn't answer any of those...
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# 5
2006-06-16, 10:57
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Regular
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Napier, New Zealand
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I've never seen a christian win a religious argument... EVER. It's easy, just ask them questions like "are we perfect?" they will reply with "no" then ask "is god perfect?" and they will reply with "yes" then ask, "how could something imperfect come from something perfect?" and they're lost.
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# 6
2006-06-17, 12:18
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Hick's reformation of Irenaean Theodicy
Stated we are not created perfect, but we are on the way to perfection. This is because you cannot become truly perfect without virtue. ie living morally in a world of challenges.
Therefore God created us imperfect because he wanted us to attain perfection ourselves. This is because perfection acquired through virtue is greater than perfection created.
Further God can create the imperfect because we can. God is the ultimate being therefore he can do everything we can and more.
by the way I am not christian, im just saying some of the rare intelligent ones can argue
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# 7
2006-06-17, 13:50
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Aeroue:
Hick's reformation of Irenaean Theodicy
Stated we are not created perfect, but we are on the way to perfection. This is because you cannot become truly perfect without virtue. ie living morally in a world of challenges.
Therefore God created us imperfect because he wanted us to attain perfection ourselves. This is because perfection acquired through virtue is greater than perfection created.
Further God can create the imperfect because we can. God is the ultimate being therefore he can do everything we can and more.
by the way I am not christian, im just saying some of the rare intelligent ones can argue
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Perfect is a matter of opinion and personal perception. Everything is perfect, where are the glitches? Does your hand suddenly flicker and dissapear for no reason?
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# 8
2006-06-17, 14:39
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:
Perfect is a matter of opinion and personal perception. Everything is perfect, where are the glitches? Does your hand suddenly flicker and dissapear for no reason?
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Is that how you define perfect? As long as your hand doesn't dissapear?
The glitches you ask? How about human nature?
On the otherhand perception is everything.
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# 9
2006-06-17, 16:16
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Perfection is just a concept. Probably unobtainable. Surely you know what it means?
It is when there is nothing wrong with something.
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# 10
2006-06-18, 10:43
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Aeroue:
Perfection is just a concept. Probably unobtainable. Surely you know what it means?
It is when there is nothing wrong with something.
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I'm saying that nothing in Reality or this system is actually "imperfect" in the sense that everything is functioning smoothly, even a deformed child is "perfect" as it is existing and is part of the system operating smoothly. There are no glitches or errors or malfunctions which cause the whole of the system to encounter problems, so its all smooth always and perfect.
Then there is the "perfect behavior" concept which people say nobody is "perfect" in reference to behavior and its also not true as if you are able to perform the behavior and there are no glitches in the smoothness of the system then its still perfect.
But yes, some things are wrong in the sense that they can be bad for you, and some things are right in the sense that they can be good for you. Some things have more benefit for you some things have less. Some people choose to do things that are not beneficial to them and those people are wronging themselves. Does it make them "imperfect" depends on your definition of course, but I don't think people are imperfect because of their actions. Yes some people wrong themselves and do silly things, if they are able to do it and everything is running smoothly, everything is still perfect, but that doesnt mean they wont harm themselves.
Everyone and everything everywhere is absolutely perfect in that it exists, operates, functions, is part of the system and runs smoothly, dead or alive. There is no flashing glitch, malfunction, or error in the system. There is Benefit and Non Benefit, Temporary Gain and Long Term Gain, making the Right choices doesn't make you any more perfect, just might show your intelligence and will to personally benefit and make wise decisions.
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#11
2006-06-18, 11:00 |
Aeroue 
Regular
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Re: My talk with a religious person.
quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:
I'm saying that nothing in Reality or this system is actually "imperfect" in the sense that everything is functioning smoothly, even a deformed child is "perfect" as it is existing and is part of the system operating smoothly. There are no glitches or errors or malfunctions which cause the whole of the system to encounter problems, so its all smooth always and perfect.
Then there is the "perfect behavior" concept which people say nobody is "perfect" in reference to behavior and its also not true as if you are able to perform the behavior and there are no glitches in the smoothness of the system then its still perfect.
But yes, some things are wrong in the sense that they can be bad for you, and some things are right in the sense that they can be good for you. Some things have more benefit for you some things have less. Some people choose to do things that are not beneficial to them and those people are wronging themselves. Does it make them "imperfect" depends on your definition of course, but I don't think people are imperfect because of their actions. Yes some people wrong themselves and do silly things, if they are able to do it and everything is running smoothly, everything is still perfect, but that doesnt mean they wont harm themselves.
Everyone and everything everywhere is absolutely perfect in that it exists, operates, functions, is part of the system and runs smoothly, dead or alive. There is no flashing glitch, malfunction, or error in the system. There is Benefit and Non Benefit, Temporary Gain and Long Term Gain, making the Right choices doesn't make you any more perfect, just might show your intelligence and will to personally benefit and make wise decisions.
But what you are saying destroys the whole concept of perfect.
That baby is not perfect, in fact no baby is perfect, ever. Perfection is just an ideal.
The natural world does not have malfunctions and glitches, it has natural disasters, disease and genetic disorders.
Something is not perfect just because it works. Something is perfect when it can get no better and there is nothing wrong with it.
If we were perfect already why do we evolve?
If something is perfect because it works why do we strive to improve our technology?
How can perfection hold negative attributes?
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#12
2006-06-18, 14:21 |
Niceguy
Regular
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Re: My talk with a religious person.
with it's perfect little hands
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#13
2006-06-18, 15:03 |
Aft3r ImaGe
Regular
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Re: My talk with a religious person.
quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:
I'm saying that nothing in Reality or this system is actually "imperfect" in the sense that everything is functioning smoothly, even a deformed child is "perfect" as it is existing and is part of the system operating smoothly. There are no glitches or errors or malfunctions which cause the whole of the system to encounter problems, so its all smooth always and perfect.
This isn't the matrix.
quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:
Then there is the "perfect behavior" concept which people say nobody is "perfect" in reference to behavior and its also not true as if you are able to perform the behavior and there are no glitches in the smoothness of the system then its still perfect.
What your talking about is so random, your treating life like a computer. It is not.
quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:
But yes, some things are wrong in the sense that they can be bad for you, and some things are right in the sense that they can be good for you. Some things have more benefit for you some things have less. Some people choose to do things that are not beneficial to them and those people are wronging themselves. Does it make them "imperfect" depends on your definition of course, but I don't think people are imperfect because of their actions. Yes some people wrong themselves and do silly things, if they are able to do it and everything is running smoothly, everything is still perfect, but that doesnt mean they wont harm themselves.
Those are choices not perfection.
quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:
Everyone and everything everywhere is absolutely perfect in that it exists, operates, functions, is part of the system and runs smoothly, dead or alive. There is no flashing glitch, malfunction, or error in the system. There is Benefit and Non Benefit, Temporary Gain and Long Term Gain, making the Right choices doesn't make you any more perfect, just might show your intelligence and will to personally benefit and make wise decisions.
There is no system, stop treating life as a computer, the matrix isn't real, and if that is your religous belief, then I'm worried.
The universe isn't a computer or system.
At the most the universe is elegant, but humanity is in no way perfection.
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#14
2006-06-18, 19:16 |
Twiggy
Regular
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Re: My talk with a religious person.
I hate to break it to you, but modern humans and forms of culture were in existence 10,000 years ago. Next time use 250,000 years to enforce your point!
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