Remember in the simpsons, when homer is high, and asks ned, "Could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot he wouldn't be able to eat it?" Well....how does something like that work?

Jesus didn't have a microwave.

can god make something so heavy even he cant lift it?

no.

[This message has been edited by TwistdSoul (edited 01-30-2006).]

I've asked people this question before, it went something like this:

Them: Yes, he's God, he can do anything.

Me: Explain?

Them: He's God.

Me: That doesn't explain how though?

Them: It does he's God!

Me: *Starts Stranggling them*

Do it like this:

You: Can God stop me from punching you in the face?

Them: Yes.

* You punch them in the face.

* Them bleed.

It doesn't prove anything, but you get to punch people.

If you replace 'can' with 'will' you it does.

If he could he still wouldn't give it to me. Dammit Jesus.

Like many paradoxes, the problem lies in an ambiguous definition. For example: "If a tree falls in the forest question and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" The paradox is the result of an ambiguous definition of "sound." If sound is only the sensory stimulation in the process of hearing, then no, it doesn't make any sound. If sound is a compression-decompression wave, as it usually is described in physics, then the answer would be "yes."

In the case of Jesus and his burrito, it's the definition of omnipotence that is put into question. If omnipotence includes the ability to do logically contradictive (i.e. "impossible") things, then Jesus can heat a burrito so hot he wouldn't be able to eat it. Of course, it makes no sense since it would seem to disprove his omnipotence if true, and therefore be impossible, but this is something that many Christians believe is possible for God to do. They think that God must be "above logic" and therefore the contradiction doesn't affect his omnipotence.

Another more reasonable approach is that God's omnipotence means he can do anything that is possible, but not logically contradictive things. In which case, a Christian could break the question down into two parts:

Can Jesus microwave a burrito to any temperature?

Yes

Can Jesus eat a burrito at any temperature?

Yes

Of course, you have the problem of the burrito not being a burrito anymore after you microwave it above a certain temperature, but it will remain a burrito if that is Jesus' will.

quote:Originally posted by Fundokiller:

If you replace 'can' with 'will' you it does.

No, I suggest you physically do that then repeat the sentence and imagine the possibilities.

Can God create a rock so heavy that he can't lift it?

If the answer is yes, then he is not all-powerful, as he can not lift the rock.

If the answer is no, then he is not all-powerful, as he can not create the rock.

This is assuming the Christian believes that God can do anything.

Notably, all methods I've seen used against this question have resulted in making an unfalsifiable hypothesis, or a multiple-out.

I really wish people would read the "Field Guide to Critical Thinking" in the FAQ...

quote:Originally posted by Inti:

Can God create a rock so heavy that he can't lift it?

If the answer is yes, then he is not all-powerful, as he can not lift the rock.

If the answer is no, then he is not all-powerful, as he can not create the rock.

This is assuming the Christian believes that God can do anything.

Notably, all methods I've seen used against this question have resulted in making an unfalsifiable hypothesis, or a multiple-out.

I really wish people would read the "Field Guide to Critical Thinking" in the FAQ...

If you're going by the definition that omnipotence means God can do logically contradictory things, then it really doesn't matter what you point out about God since Christians are throwing logic out the window when it comes to questioning him.

If, however, you are going by the definition of omnipotence where God can do anything that is possible:

God can create a rock of any weight.

God can lift a rock of any weight.

And no, God cannot create a rock so large that he cannot lift it if he is omnipotent, since this would be logically contradictory and therefore impossible.

Edit: Think of it this way: the question is disguising an impossibility as a possibility. You can tell this by comparing "God can lift a rock of any weight" to "God cannot lift a rock of a certain weight." This is assuming that God remains omnipotent. For those not satisfied, I think the response I made below this post answers the question well enough for any simpleton to understand.



[This message has been edited by Clarphimous (edited 01-31-2006).]

Okay, how about this? God is omnipotent, therefore he can purposely lose his omnipotence for whatever reason. And therefore he can cause himself to be unable to lift the rock. Happy?

No, i'm not happy. That is saying that god CHOOSES not to lift the rock, while at anytime he could just make himself able to lift it again. And the ability to be able to lift it is the same as being able to lift it.

quote:Originally posted by TwistdSoul:

No, i'm not happy. That is saying that god CHOOSES not to lift the rock, while at anytime he could just make himself able to lift it again. And the ability to be able to lift it is the same as being able to lift it.

Hypothetical situation.

Assumed:

God is currently omnipotent.

So:

1. God creates a very heavy rock.

2. God gives up his omnipotence permanently, including his ability to lift rocks of that size.

3. God can no longer lift the rock.

Therefore, God has made a rock that he cannot lift. He can no longer choose to lift it. And it is okay that he loses his omnipotence, because all that is assumed is that he starts out as omnipotent.

I would suggest not trying to make sense of the argument any other way than this, if you're trying to get a solution and not just playing with logic. It would seem that the logic extends forever for other possible solutions. I almost fried my brain trying.

[This message has been edited by Clarphimous (edited 01-31-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Clarphimous:

Hypothetical situation.

Assumed:

God is currently omnipotent.

So:

1. God creates a very heavy rock.

2. God gives up his omnipotence permanently, including his ability to lift rocks of that size.

3. God can no longer lift the rock.

Therefore, God has made a rock that he cannot lift. He can no longer choose to lift it. And it is okay that he loses his omnipotence, because all that is assumed is that he starts out as omnipotent.

Ok, i'll buy that. Before when you said give up his omnipotence i thought you meant temporarily. I guess if god is willing to give up his omnipotence permanently, i'll let him not pick up a rock.

God could create a rock so heavy that even he could not lift it because he can do anything since he's omnipotent. It doesn't matter that he can't lift it even though he can lift anything because God is omnipotent and can therefore do anything.

quote:Originally posted by niggersexual:

God could create a rock so heavy that even he could not lift it because he can do anything since he's omnipotent. It doesn't matter that he can't lift it even though he can lift anything because God is omnipotent and can therefore do anything.

My thoughts exactly

...but then he's not omnipotent because he can't lift it...

basically, unless you throw all logic out the window (which, sadly, many people have), theres no way an omnipotent being can exist.

there is no logical fallacy here. logically no being exists which is omnipotent, there is no such thing as an omnipotent being.

the answer is "no" jesus couldn't.

Of course you could look at your question except as it pertains to a different subject.

According to most, God created Man/Woman in his image, therefore having free will. We are then creations of an "Omnipotent" being yet we cannot be forced to either love our'creator', worship him, or even acknowledge that "GOD" even exists.

The story of Job highlights this as do many others. Surely we "COULD" be forced to do something but there would always remain the question of why we are doing it.

Fear? I know it's a slight stretch from the burrito subject, but any theoretical question still brings us to the whys of the reasoning to do something,,,i.e.--purpose.

And of course you would still have to define the realms of the question by your own defintion of 'HOT' since this is what we would be able to relate to.

As we cannot relate to a perfect being or an "Omnipotent" force, the parameters would still be beyond the understanding and comprehension of our restricted brainpower & knowledge.

Not really an answer, huh?

Sure is fun going round and round about nothing though. :> )

quote:Originally posted by TwistdSoul:

...but then he's not omnipotent because he can't lift it...

I was just being sarcastic when I agreed with niggersexual. I doubt he was serious either.

quote:Originally posted by Clarphimous:



2. God gives up his omnipotence permanently, including his ability to lift rocks of that size.



I don't know why, but i found that really funny.

quote:Originally posted by TwistdSoul:

...but then he's not omnipotent because he can't lift it...

basically, unless you throw all logic out the window (which, sadly, many people have), theres no way an omnipotent being can exist.

Omnipotent beings have to exist outside of logic. If you read the book of Job you would know that God explicitly says we aren't supposed to try and understand him...omnipotence exists out of our realm of thought.

EDIT: String theory says we have 10 spacetime dimensions. That seems pretty illogical and incomprehensible to me, but it may in fact exist.

[This message has been edited by Skankinsasquatch (edited 02-02-2006).]

got can create 'this' rock: granted



but can also create force which would give quality to that which makes it heavy, namely gravity, which is a magnetive force which is not found in space and so the idea of God being questioned,

can you form into the position of attempting such logic?



--------------------------------------------

Qoute-

Inti



Can God create a rock so heavy that he can't lift it?

If the answer is yes, then he is not all-powerful, as he can not lift the rock.

If the answer is no, then he is not all-powerful, as he can not create the rock.



Thump up!

--------------------------------------------

is pushed toward -

the rock is a singular arrangement of matter. This matter takes on weight only when in weighted balance, as such, by another singular arrangement of matter. This is a simple way of explaining gravity.

So,

God would need to take on form on earth, for instance, in order to carry out this task.

However,

in order to creat such a pull of gravity God would need to recreate the universe and change much of which is physical law, also creating a planet much larger than earth probably beyond our "imaginative conception".

Stop using words to justify cause

Pure gibberish. If you can't bother to make a coherent argument, I won't bother to interpret what you're saying.