I find it very amusing that 'they' have actually managed to convince the majority of humans that there is an invisible, all-knowing, all-powerful, omniprescent being who happens to love us (but doesn't mind sending us to a place of eternal suffering), and only demands that we worship him (for all eternity, in heaven...a place that would be free of all the humanly 'sins' that we all enjoy so much).

What's sad...yet still amazing is many of the people who believe this stuff are otherwise smart and logical individuals. Despite a shitload of plain and simple evidence right in front of them, they decide that the true answer is the one with pretty much zero evidence, and zero logic behind it.

Heh, and tell any of these people that you believe in goblins, or fairies, or elves, or zombies, and they'll look at you like your insane.

It's just amazing how Christianity has basically turned a large portion of people irrational, hypocritical fools (sometimes 'intelligent' fools!). I'm essentially an atheist, with some nihilistic philosophies, but I do give Christianity credit as being the biggest piece of bullshit in history.

(BTW, this isn't meant for this topic, but I would like to add that I think religions are necessary in a society to give the frightened masses hope. If everyone was enlightened to the reality that there is nothing else, then we'd probably have a shitload more of crazy people)

^ right on!

Your certainly biased here. Why are you saying that Christianity is the biggest lie? Why not Islam? (I mean after all they say that Allah is one person and he refers to himself as three... but i digress)

Why not just say all religion is stupid?

Quit being an idiot and use some form of logic when you post.

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Your certainly biased here. Why are you saying that Christianity is the biggest lie? Why not Islam? (I mean after all they say that Allah is one person and he refers to himself as three... but i digress)

Why not just say all religion is stupid?

Quit being an idiot and use some form of logic when you post.

Because most Muslim people do not receive the kind of education that most Christians receive?

I mean in countries like Middle East, education can only go so far.

quote:Originally posted by quasicurus:

Because most Muslim people do not receive the kind of education that most Christians receive?

I mean in countries like Middle East, education can only go so far.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with anything i said....

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Which has absolutely nothing to do with anything i said....

I was simply making a point, using Christianity (the most widespread,and historically...intense religion) as an example.

Instead of just trying to insult me and call me an idiot, why not focus on what I'm saying, or if you've heard it before, don't read it. I could have pointed out that all religions are ridiculous and that it's surprising how many people have been convinced to believe them, but I'm sure any half-intelligent person could figure out what I was saying even though I only used Christianity.

You're just being an asshat, now get the fuck out of my thread, or post something constructive.

EDIT: I'd also like to add that I used Christianity as an example because

1)I'm very familiar with it.

2)It's probably one of the more illogical religions in its demands of the follower.

3)(I already said this) It's the most widespread and most influential religion...though yes Islam comes close.

You need to chill the fuck out, though Argon, because you sound like a fucking baby.

[This message has been edited by TheDragon (edited 09-23-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

...they say that Allah is one person and he refers to himself as three...



Can you please show me where Allah refers to himself as three? I don't think you can find anything to back up your claim if you're talking about Tawheed. Tawheed is divided into three categories but do not confuse this as meanining God himself is divided into three like the Christian view of the holy trinity for example.

All throughout the Quran, Hadith, and almost every other Islamic text the authors (be it Allah himself or Muslim scholars) keep repeating the same idea of monotheism and I seriously doubt anybody who has studied the matter would think otherwise. After all the kalimah, or defining phrase of Islam is: There is no god other than God.

quote:Originally posted by TheDragon:

I was simply making a point, using Christianity (the most widespread,and historically...intense religion) as an example.

Instead of just trying to insult me and call me an idiot, why not focus on what I'm saying, or if you've heard it before, don't read it. I could have pointed out that all religions are ridiculous and that it's surprising how many people have been convinced to believe them, but I'm sure any half-intelligent person could figure out what I was saying even though I only used Christianity.

You're just being an asshat, now get the fuck out of my thread, or post something constructive.

EDIT: I'd also like to add that I used Christianity as an example because

1)I'm very familiar with it.

2)It's probably one of the more illogical religions in its demands of the follower.

3)(I already said this) It's the most widespread and most influential religion...though yes Islam comes close.

You need to chill the fuck out, though Argon, because you sound like a fucking baby.



So im a baby for pointing out that your babbling like an idiot?

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

Your certainly biased here. Why are you saying that Christianity is the biggest lie? Why not Islam? (I mean after all they say that Allah is one person and he refers to himself as three... but i digress)

Why not just say all religion is stupid?

Quit being an idiot and use some form of logic when you post.

quote:Originally posted by ArgonPlasma2000:

So im a baby for pointing out that your babbling like an idiot?

Speaking of being an idiot, it's "you're" and "I'm".

And yes, you're being a baby. Someone brings a valid, coherent observation/reflection to the table, and you feebly try to discredit him. So, please, if you have something you're arguing about here, I'd like some proof. Otherwise, you're just interfering with my thread, and making yourself look dumber by the moment.

it's all been said before

firstly, most christians don't take the bible literally, which i understand to be where most "evidence" against christianity comes from

and no, there's not a shitload of plain and simple evidence, most of the evidence against the bible relies on faith in scientific stuff that the average person doesn't fully understand or have any reason to believe either

and i really don't think christianity has turned anybody into a fool, either they were already, or they're intelligent enough to keep their beliefs about an afterworld and such separate from their beliefs in logic and science, as you said, many are intelligent, logical people

personally, i believe in a vaguely pantheistic god because it makes sense that there are things i understand, and things i don't understand, i don't have the arrogance to think that i, or anyybody on earth, can know everything about our world, including whether or not there's a god, so i go with my gut, and don't try to convert people or try to minimize their religion, you don't know anything more about god than they do

oh yeah, and, sure as hell not just christianity, religions were going on for thousands of years all over the world before christianity started, if you weren't so blatantly anti-xian, people might take you more seriously

[This message has been edited by crazygoatemonky (edited 09-24-2005).]

quote:Originally posted by TheDragon:

I find it very amusing that 'they' have actually managed to convince the majority of humans that there is an invisible, all-knowing, all-powerful, omniprescent being who happens to love us (but doesn't mind sending us to a place of eternal suffering), and only demands that we worship him (for all eternity, in heaven...a place that would be free of all the humanly 'sins' that we all enjoy so much).

What's sad...yet still amazing is many of the people who believe this stuff are otherwise smart and logical individuals. Despite a shitload of plain and simple evidence right in front of them, they decide that the true answer is the one with pretty much zero evidence, and zero logic behind it.

Heh, and tell any of these people that you believe in goblins, or fairies, or elves, or zombies, and they'll look at you like your insane.

It's just amazing how Christianity has basically turned a large portion of people irrational, hypocritical fools (sometimes 'intelligent' fools!). I'm essentially an atheist, with some nihilistic philosophies, but I do give Christianity credit as being the biggest piece of bullshit in history.

(BTW, this isn't meant for this topic, but I would like to add that I think religions are necessary in a society to give the frightened masses hope. If everyone was enlightened to the reality that there is nothing else, then we'd probably have a shitload more of crazy people)

If only everyone could know the truth like you...

quote:Originally posted by crazygoatemonky:

and no, there's not a shitload of plain and simple evidence, most of the evidence against the bible relies on faith in scientific stuff that the average person doesn't fully understand or have any reason to believe either





why do you say the average person cant understand science? im an average person, im not even university educated and i could explain how stars are formed, how dna works, how evolution works, how the planets go round the sun, how nuclear fission works, i mean its not that hard to understand.

maybe if you DID understand a bit more about the world around you you might not find it so easy to be duped into following some crap.

Pffft, I'm not even through highschool (only 15) and I could explain most of that shit you said Terminator.

quote:and no, there's not a shitload of plain and simple evidence, most of the evidence against the bible relies on faith in scientific stuff that the average person doesn't fully understand or have any reason to believe either

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science."

~ Charles Darwin

quote:Originally posted by TerminatorVinitiatoR:



why do you say the average person cant understand science? im an average person, im not even university educated and i could explain how stars are formed, how dna works, how evolution works, how the planets go round the sun, how nuclear fission works, i mean its not that hard to understand.

maybe if you DID understand a bit more about the world around you you might not find it so easy to be duped into following some crap.

Lay it on me then big guy.

Disprove the bible.

There is no evidence of Judeo-christian worship during the Paleolithic era which thereby proves that Yahweh was not the first God man worshipped which proves that the Bible is full of shit...

Q.E.D.

I'm only joking...

Well half joking anyways.

Its kind of hard to disprove the Bible same way its hard to disprove any other religious text of any other religion. They are all riddled with logical and historical inconsistencies yet somehow that never stops people from believing in them.

I have alot of respect for Christianity too, only for different reasons.

Them believing they will go to heaven while I go to hell doesn't disturb me. Me believing that they will die and just cease to exist like any other lower organism shouldn't disturb them either. We can only become rattled by other people's beliefs if we are able to find a shred of truth to them that frightens us into thinking: "What if I'm wrong, and they're right?"

If they can hold hope and compassion for non-believers, then I can muster up hope and compassion for them, in turn.

Because so many believers are tied to their morals based only on the premise of their religious faiths, then this world is not yet ready for a healthy society with very little emphasis on religion. It's been the crux of morality for so long now, most people would no longer be able to function without that supernatural *push* to guide them along and make them do the right thing unto others.

I guess I respect them for finding SOMETHING to latch onto that keeps them happy and full of humanity, if that's what it takes. If there were ever a major paradigm shift in society that prohibited religious practice, causing believers to be persecuted for holding theistic beliefs - I would be at the forefront of the movement trying to protect their rights to believe. I think finding a fair and balanced way to co-exist while still tolerating the other's lifestyle is what should be sought out.

The topicstarter's first post belies the title of the thread. Calling them fools, and all. Are little children fools for believing in the easter bunny or santa clause? We don't laugh at them, we encourage it because it reinforces positive thinking.

/disrespect

quote:Originally posted by TheDragon:

I was simply making a point, using Christianity (the most widespread,and historically...intense religion) as an example.

You make it appear now that you were simply making a point, but you were specifically targeting Christianity.

What point was it you were trying to make ? If it was about religion, then you shouldn't have focused on Christianity in particular. That's just elementary.

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

Lay it on me then big guy.

Disprove the bible.



And also, while he's at it, let him explain how stars are formed (without copy/pasting...).

quote:Originally posted by TerminatorVinitiatoR:



why do you say the average person cant understand science?

Notice that's not what he said. He said "doesn't fully understand...".

And I am being polite. Retorts such as yours (the occasional honest exception excepted) should be flamed out of existence.

quote:Originally posted by FunkyZombie:

There is no evidence of Judeo-christian worship during the Paleolithic era which thereby proves that Yahweh was not the first God man worshipped which proves that the Bible is full of shit...

Really ? How is that ? I think something "is full of shit" does not exactly denote what you are criticizing.

quote:Originally posted by TerminatorVinitiatoR:



why do you say the average person cant understand science? im an average person, im not even university educated and i could explain how stars are formed, how dna works, how evolution works, how the planets go round the sun, how nuclear fission works, i mean its not that hard to understand.

maybe if you DID understand a bit more about the world around you you might not find it so easy to be duped into following some crap.

pretty much what uncus said

but also, i'm not getting "duped into following some crap", i'm not following my parents religion or being a teenage atheist or satanist or anything, i read up on some major religions and decided on what i thought would work best for me, and not actually interefere in any way with logic and science, which i value, i'm not being duped

and you're probably further educated than me, but please, if it's so easy, explain to me exactly how stars form, and exactly how dna and nuclear fission work. if it's so simple, it shouldn't even take a very long explanation or anything, and certainly no copying and pasting

oh yeah, and @ terminator and paradise lost, yes, i can understand to a certain extent the stuff he said, but a poor urban kid probably wouldn't, i'm not arguing for christianity, i'm just saying that for some people it's all they know, or just what they know best, and in that person's eyes there's not much evidence against the bible

[This message has been edited by crazygoatemonky (edited 09-24-2005).]

I can explain how science tells me stars form (with the clouds of gas slowly condensing and all), but the problem is that I have to have faith that the astrophysicists and so forth are right about that, too. Until I become a physicist myself and can understand the math and method involved, I can't tell you for sure. However, everything else such scientists have told me seems to be true so far, so I'm inclined to trust them. Best of all, they don't require faith, and welcome reason.

quote:Originally posted by Uncus:

Really ? How is that ? I think something "is full of shit" does not exactly denote what you are criticizing.

Huh?

I'm not really clear on what your trying to say here.

Well I respect the golden rule ie. do onto others as you would have done unto you. but the myths and self contradictory drivel i can live without

quote:Originally posted by FunkyZombie:

Huh?

I'm not really clear on what your trying to say here.

That's what I meant too.

quote:Originally posted by Twisted_Ferret:

However, everything else such scientists have told me seems to be true so far, so I'm inclined to trust them. Best of all, they don't require faith, and welcome reason.

Don't be too confident of that. There is controversy among scientists, more than you probably imagine, and there would be yet more if so much didn't depend for them on search grants. Taken as one example the theory of the Big Bang.