Aren't the excuses that keep Christianity (and possibly other religions) mysterious and unquestionable a little too convenient to not be untrue?

Example: You can't explain God's powers/intentions/ideas in human terminology because it's not possible.

Wow. Really? Man, that sucks. I guess I'll just have to believe it.

I was going to have a hypothetical situation for you all, but I know at least 85% of you wouldn't even read it.

Comments?

No offense, but this thread is idiotic. You expect people to give you comments on a situation you were too lazy to type out. Fuck that.

You also could have fleshed out your little example(as shitty as it may be) a little more.

Honestly, I actually typed out about three REALLY long things, and deleted them all. I deleted them all because I saw a lot of "too long, didn't read" replies. I mean, they weren't what I would call long, but a lot of threads that say (really long) in the subject line take me MAYBE a minute to read. Considering any one of the three things I typed up would have taken me TWO minutes to read, I was pretty sure I was going to be the only one to read it. My bad.

And it's not like you can't still comment. It's not the end of the god damn world.

[This message has been edited by Penguins in the Desert (edited 07-20-2005).]

Post them anyway. Most people on MGCBtSOoYG tend to read the long and the short posts . And if you look, many of the responses get alittle lengthy too.

quote:Originally posted by Penguins in the Desert:

Honestly, I actually typed out about three REALLY long things, and deleted them all. I deleted them all because I saw a lot of "too long, didn't read" replies. I mean, they weren't what I would call long, but a lot of threads that say (really long) in the subject line take me MAYBE a minute to read. Considering any one of the three things I typed up would have taken me TWO minutes to read, I was pretty sure I was going to be the only one to read it. My bad.

And it's not like you can't still comment. It's not the end of the god damn world.



There is nothing to comment on though. That little example of yours is insanely biased and doesn't have nearly enough information.

Here's a different kind of example that I see a lot:

Brian has cancer. Brian is in the hospital, terminally ill. People pray for him. If...

Brian lives, cured of cancer -- people say "God answered our prayers!"

Brian dies from cancer -- people say "God took him home! Praise Jesus!"

Brian doesn't die, but is handicapped for life -- "It's all part of God's wonderful plan! Praise the Lord!"

etc., etc.

No matter what happens, the people will think that God did something, when in fact there's no reason to believe God did anything at all.

It's just an explanation device used for comfort.

It's not like they think God is doing it(if they do then they're fucking lunatics). I could understand if they were blaming God, but the vast majority of the time, it's just people putting something into more pleasant terms. Which sounds better. Little Jimmy died from Leukemia. Or. God took little Jimmy up to heaven where he will be happy for all eternity.

Why the fuck do you even care?

"Little Jimmy is now in a better place", could be a something said for comfort; I could buy that.

What I don't buy is the rest, which you conveniently decide to ignore; I'm assuming because you know the rest don't fit into that bullshit criteria of "explanation device used for comfort".

A big portion of Christians parade around success stories of prayer, while either completely ignoring when it fails, or using the convenient excuse [insert light bulb image here] that "It's all part of God's wonderful plan!" or "God works in mysterious ways".

Can a prayer fail?

Anyways. I think it applies as a comfort device if Jimmy lives or if he's cripple for life. If he survives, I agree that the family would simply harp the benefits of prayer/thank the doctor.

It'd be easier if the original poster gave a more detailed situation to work with, because the two so far offer nothing in terms of details. Just little exclamations of praise.

I also didn't "conveniently" ignore anything.

The two so far are perfect examples. You just claim that they are done for comfort... which does not refute them being convenient excuses!

Moreover, you are thinking the people who say "It's all part of god's plan" are comforting themselves for Jimmy's loss... who said that?

Countless Christians parade ssuccess stories of people they don't even know, and yet they then use these convenient excuses when other stories show how it has failed. How is that a comforting device if they would simply be making these convenient excuses to justify the failure (or "bad outcome" if you prefer that) of prayer and not because they lost someone; I mean, you could say that is the comfort (i.e. the justification) but then that just proves the initial post completely.

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

The two so far are perfect examples. You just claim that they are done for comfort... which does not refute them being convenient excuses!

Show that they're excuses then. That's the reason I want a better example so that I can see that those replies are being used as excuses.

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

Show that they're excuses then. That's the reason I want a better example so that I can see that those replies are being used as excuses.





If they claim prayer works, and then it does not, and they say that this is because it was part of God's plan for it to fail (not have a good outcome if you prefer to say that) then it's an excuse. Period. Whether that excuse is valid is another thing.

Ok, but I still need the "why?" to be highlighted to me, so I know why they're giving excuses.

Ii is impossible to say whether or not an excuse is valid based solely on a three sentence situation.

You're changing your story each time.

First, you wanted to know if they were excuses... "That's the reason I want a better example". Now it's to find out if it's valid...

Not only did I not create the topic, but I have no wish to play that game.

Feel free to up with a scenario where the above (i.e. What someone prayed for happened - god answered it / it didn't happen - it's part of god's plan) would make it a valid excuse or not, though. I'm genuinely curious.



[This message has been edited by Rust (edited 07-23-2005).]

I never changed a thing. If you actually read my post, you would have noticed that with the first word I agreed that you were right.

Wow......

Whether you agreed with me or not does not change the fact that you changed your reason.

Again, if now you want a better example to find out if it would be valid or not (which is different from finding out if it's an excuse or not), then I say it is up to you to find out if the excuse given previously would be acceptable in any possible example.

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

No offense, but this thread is idiotic. You expect people to give you comments on a situation you were too lazy to type out. Fuck that.

You also could have fleshed out your little example(as shitty as it may be) a little more.

If you would've taken the time to act out of intelligence instead of from haste then you'd know that there's NO NEED WHATSOEVER for him to give any FURTHER examples. The one he GAVE exemplary enough.

I understand what you're saying, entirely, Peng. Whatever/whenever Xians can't explain that's/what's in the bible or any of their unwritten, they come up with convinient excuses to make themselves exempt from actually answering question surrounding them.

They either say, 'it can't be explained/understood by humans', 'it's all apart of God's plan', 'God works in mysterious ways', 'it's in the bible', "God/the bible says/said...", or they change/twist the meanings of things in the bible to support their cause, when the bible blatantly says something else, or they simply choose not to acknowledge certain things altogether.

You call it/them 'Convinient Excuses', which is eloquent, and I like it, but I simply have and always will call it a 'cop out'.

quote:Rust

AHHHHHHHH!!! Rust......a Mod....WTF :CONFUSED:

No, congrats, I haven't been here in a while, so don't fire back with a "that's old news-esque"

type of thing, if it is.

A man lives in a valley. One day, someone drives past and says, "sir, this valley is going to be flooded in a few hours, come with me, I'll get you out." The man says, "No no no, my god will get me out of it." An hour later his house is flooded and he is sitting on the roof. A few swimmers come by and say, "jump in, we'll help you swim to safety." "No no no, my god will save me." An hour later his house is underwater, and he is struggling to swim. A boat comes by, the people in the boat say, "Jump in, we'll get you to safety." "No no no, my god will save me. They leave him there. He dies, and goes to Heaven. He says to God, "God, why didnt you save me?" God says, "But I tried to, I sent a driver, three swimmers, and a boat for you."

Sorry, I'm not a Christian but I love that story, hehehe.