I've been reading the bible. I grew up in a christian home. I've decided to be open-minded, and give others the chance to explain, because I will not hesitate to ask questions of that which I do not understand. I'm not jumping into the waters with both feet either.

In Job, the first chapter, God is talking DIRECTLY to Satan. He says to him, "Meet Job, he is perfect and upright."

1. I thought that only Jesus was the perfect human ever.

2. I thought God couldn't be in the presence of evil?

Explain??

Every person who ever taught me in Church believed that God is "In all places at once" and "Knows all (Omniscient)". Normal logic would draw me to the conclusion:

God is always in the prescence of evil, for as long as Evil remains in his creation, then he is coexisting with it. God is Omnipotent, he can do whatever he wants. There are no "rules" on what he can and cannot do, so if he wanted to chill with Satan, then so be it! It is done!

As for that perfect part...it's odd. I just hope someone doesn't come on here and say "Well, what God MEANT was......". Thats what the Bible says, which is Gods word, directly. So who knows? I've personally never see this phrase, so someone else would be much more qualified to clarify your question.

Ah I know now. So I'm not worried about it. 'Perfect' was 'tam' in hebrew, translated as complete/whole. Here's where context clues comes in to play. In that chapter God also says that Job has everything. A loving wife, 5 sons and two daughters, land and what not. His life was perfect/complete/whole.

God isn't talking to Satan. He is talking to one of his angels who disagrees with God about Job.

Satan originally ment someone who opposed God (this could mean someone that disagreed or tried to prove God wrong), and the word has since been twisted into the horned god of darkness most christians think of today.

Sorry, Beta, but you are completely wrong.

OP - Can you please give me the specific scripture that says God tells Satan that Job is perfect ?

"And Jehovah said to Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a perfect and an upright man"

Job 1:8, King James Version.

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

"And Jehovah said to Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a perfect and an upright man"

Job 1:8, King James Version.

A contradiction in the bible; the infallible word of thy God?



The hell you say!

Wow, with such evidence presented, you are right, I must be wrong.

Ok, seriously, read the bible and learn the definitions of the hebrew words used.

quote:Originally posted by Krispy:

God is Omnipotent, he can do whatever he wants. There are no "rules" on what he can and cannot do, so if he wanted to chill with Satan, then so be it! It is done!



Could he take away the free will of a human being? And why hasn't he? It could have saved many inocent lives.

quote:Originally posted by MasterPython:

Could he take away the free will of a human being? And why hasn't he? It could have saved many inocent lives.



A possibly more pertinent question is why do we have one in the first place?

the bible was written by many people over a few centuries (or more). plus there are thousands of translations, each one adding its own little biases or rephrasing to reflect the translator's views. so? don't take that shit literally, or even read into the details that much. try to take away general ideas or concepts if you must.

Sorry, but you are wrong. The KJV clearly states that God is in satans presence. Which is fine. It's obviously a common misconception to think that God can not look upon sin, being that there is no scripture to support that assumption. If God couldn't look upon sin then he wouldn't have known we were sinners, and Jesus would have never been.

Understand the bible was translated. From one language to another it's hard to get the meaning exactly as it should be. Thus, some of it is lost in translation and to understand you must go to the root of it's meaning.

quote:Originally posted by WolfinSheepsClothing:

A contradiction in the bible; the infallible word of thy God?



The hell you say!

1. I don't like your sarcasm.

'Perfect' was 'tam' in hebrew, translated as complete/whole. Here's where context clues comes in to play. In that chapter God also says that Job has everything. A loving wife, 5 sons and two daughters, land and what not. His life was perfect/complete/whole.

It may appear as a contradiction, I thought so at first, but if you look into it's FIRST meaning then you know it isn't a contradiction.

quote:Originally posted by MasterPython:

Could he take away the free will of a human being? And why hasn't he? It could have saved many inocent lives.



The whole point of our creation was to have free will. God knows everything you'll be doing before you do it, but he can't make you do what's 'right'. If he were to then he would diminish the whole point of our creation. We were meant to choose to love him or hate him. He loves us so much he allows US to chose which master we will serve, from my understanding.

Here's a thought.

Would you rather someone love you because you force them to love you, or would you rather someone love you because they chose to love you?