i have heard alot of people say that anyone who commits suicide goes straight to hell, but then their daughter killed herself and they said "oh she had a disease she was depressed so she will be forgiven"

what do you think?

Sounds like fence-riding to me, you can't have it both ways. But then, I guess it's only human. We tend to want to rationalize that which we cannot accept.

quote:Originally posted by spaceMAN:

i have heard alot of people say that anyone who commits suicide goes straight to hell, but then their daughter killed herself and they said "oh she had a disease she was depressed so she will be forgiven"

what do you think?

I have spend my life studing religion, and i have came to an conclusion. Bud, there is no hell there is no satan, there is heaven, we are a part of god and god isnt going to destroy himself, even jesus said that

Bible doesn't really say suicide is a sin. It says murder is a sin, but it depends on whether killing yourself qualifies as murder. In my opinion, it doesn't...your body knows it will die if the action is taken, and so long as no offense is taken by yourself upon yourself, there's no unwillful part of yourself to really make a case for 'murder'.

The reason Christians consider suicide a sin (to my understanding), is because they believe your life is a gift from God, and only He has the right to take it away from you.

Helmsman is right, you can't have it both ways. Either everyone goes to Hell if they commit suicide (even if it is your daughter), or they don't.

The 'Christian' view isn't supported by the Bible though. Not a single passage considers not accepting or returning a gift from God a sin.

Regardless, sins are forgiven by accepting christ.

How do Hindus and Bhuddists view suicide?

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

Regardless, sins are forgiven by accepting christ.

I thought you needed to ask for forgiveness, how can you do that if you are dead?

^ Unlike the catholic doctrine of mortal sin, I get the distinct impression that eternal life/ God's forgiveness isn't contingent on dying with a clean slate.

quote:Originally posted by MasterPython:

I thought you needed to ask for forgiveness, how can you do that if you are dead?

i'm no theologist, but i think the christian view is that once you have accepted christ as your savior you are then forgiven for all sins. (past & future)

that may be just what i was taught though.

quote:Originally posted by 2lowfor0:

i'm no theologist, but i think the christian view is that once you have accepted christ as your savior you are then forgiven for all sins. (past & future)

that may be just what i was taught though.



I don't think thats how it is. I grew up and live in in a Christian house and went to church damn-near every week of my life. What I was taught was that when you accept Jesus he only forgives your sins if you ask him and truly mean it. Pretty hard to do that when you're dead, eh?

Anyway in response to this thread, I think that suicide is wrong and you will go to hell for it because it's basicly murder. Only God has the right to take your life. But thats just my opinion.



[This message has been edited by a fucking idiot (edited 12-16-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by inquisitor_11:

How do Hindus and Bhuddists view suicide?

The Buddhist view is not clear, in my opinion. My dad has been studying Buddhism for 30 years, and he still can't say for certain. Suicide would be considered bad karma, IMO, because it is causing others to suffer (your family, friends), it is a selfish act.

quote:Originally posted by Social Junker:

The Buddhist view is not clear, in my opinion. My dad has been studying Buddhism for 30 years, and he still can't say for certain. Suicide would be considered bad karma, IMO, because it is causing others to suffer (your family, friends), it is a selfish act.

Would there be a sense where it would be kinda like hiting the resest button, and having another crack at a different life?

quote:Originally posted by inquisitor_11:

Would there be a sense where it would be kinda like hiting the resest button, and having another crack at a different life?

Interesting way to look at it. I'm sure samurai would have agreed with you. Bushido prescribes seppuku or ritual suicide when one has been so dishonored that there is no choice but to hit the "reset" button and begin again.

Most samurai were Zen Buddhists, by the way.

How did that relate with the Shin Buddhism in fuedal Japan?

quote:Originally posted by Social Junker:

The Buddhist view is not clear, in my opinion. My dad has been studying Buddhism for 30 years, and he still can't say for certain. Suicide would be considered bad karma, IMO, because it is causing others to suffer (your family, friends), it is a selfish act.



I think suicide as a way out is generally looked down upon in most religions, but it's approved of if its for a cause. Even Buddhists have calmly immolated themselves in protest.

quote:Originally posted by spaceMAN:

i have heard alot of people say that anyone who commits suicide goes straight to hell, but then their daughter killed herself and they said "oh she had a disease she was depressed so she will be forgiven"

what do you think?

Sounds like all three of you are fucked.

quote:Originally posted by inquisitor_11:

How do Hindus and Bhuddists view suicide?

My guess, in reference to Buddhism, would be that it is wrong. As Social said, it is pretty selfish. Not only that, but you will still be trapped within samsara (cyclic existence) due to your ignorance and selfishness and be reborn again in another life so suicide is futile. You may digress from the problems in your current life, but you're only stirring up bad karma for a future life.

quote:Originally posted by inquisitor_11:

How do Hindus and Bhuddists view suicide?

Hindu Gurus depart this life deliberately thru a type of meditation called 'Samadhi', they will their spirit to leave the body when they feel their time is up(see "Autobiography of a Guru" Yoganada). Could that be called a suicide?

Buddhists believe that the attainment of a human life is the opportunity par excellence to escape samsara -- this life of karma and delusion. Karma is based firstly on intention, and depending on that, the resulting karma would determine the state of the next level of life. The intention of the person committing suicide could mean one would be reborn at a lower state of consciousness with less opportunity to advance and thus one would be condemning oneself to more of this life of suffering. That suggests that a suicide intended to escape suffering could in fact mean one will suffer more intensely with less chance of escape. On the other hand, if a suicide, as in the self immolation protests by buddhist monks as a protest intended to alleviate or highlight the suffering of others, could mean advancement to a higher level at the next rebirth, or perhaps if the intention were pure -- nirvana, never ending bliss!

Namaste

quote:Originally posted by undergoing_treatment:

I have spend my life studing religion, and i have came to an conclusion.

Perhaps time spent learning basic rules of grammar would be more productive.

Oh, and did I mention you're a moron?

im not a 100%, but i thought that it was a sin to kill yourself cos you could just go to confession after years of sinning then just kill yourself with a clean soul.