totse.com | i will revert to christianity IF you answer these questions

princecharmant1980 · #1 2004-10-03, 02:27

1)Christians consider themselves monotheists

how can you be as such if you worship God his son and the holly spirit?

2)what is the holly spirit explain please ,i get different explanations from different christians?

3)if jesus is a GOD why did he dye since a GOD must be immortal ?

4)all relligions considers GOD as perfect so if GOD is perfect then he has no needs why would he need a son anyway ?

5)how can jesus be son of GOD and a GOD?

6)whay does churches discard other new testaments like the bernaba bible the first ethiopean bible and the pogmel bible all these bibles consider Jesus as a simple human being and a prophet and does not consider jesus as a god and does not believe in trinity that was created years after Jesus supposed death why only 4 are recognised while many other bibles exist.

here is the muslim version of jesus storry to understand why do i ask this:

God created humans and asked them to worship him humans after adam and eve continued to worship god then some generations worshiped planets,statutes and other stuffs GOd reminds humans to worship him alone so he sent messengers or prophets like Noah Abraham Moise etc...

God give his prophet miracles so that people will believe them

God sent Jesus to jews because they became very greedy and forgot GOd teachings

he was sent in a special way his mother was pregnant without a man (i think Christians consider Jesus the son of god because of this )

but in coran it says that God created Jesus

that's all in this special way since god can do anything GOD Is not his father but his creator even if it was done without a man

Jesus was sent to jews

GOd granted Jesus many miracles so people will believe him he could make blind see and treat lepper and even raise dead people ( this is another reason why christians think he is the son of GOD)all this miracles where actually done by GOD but with jesus hands it was a gift a miracle not Jesus real powers

Jews conspired to kill Jesus but the jew who betrayed him was punished(this is where muslims and christians differs)

GOD punished the traitor and gave him Jesus apearance and was crossed by romans instead of the real Jesus and that's what you are worshiping while GOD Raised te real Jesus to heaven where he is living in heaven and he will turn back to kill the antichrist (Dajal)

and will destroy crosses and tell people that only god should be worshiped and not him or the holly spirit he ill tell people i'm just a normal human being and i'm only a messenger my mirracles were all given to me by god i don't possess them and christians will then destory crosses and turn true monotheists (muslims)

theBishop · #2 2004-10-03, 02:41

I feel like saying fuck you for saying "reverting to christianity", but i'll answer your questions instead.

1) The difference between Christianity and Polytheistic religions is that all 3 elements of the trinity are in perfect harmony all the time. It's one Will working in 3 forms. Jesus won't disagree with the Holy spirit, which doesn't disagree with the father, God. Ever. However, i admit it's not as cleanly monotheistic as judaism or islam.

2) the holy spirit is the part of god that dwells inside the saved. When you accept Jesus, the holy spirit becomes a part of you.

3) God is immortal, Jesus was human. The whole point of Jesus' death was that there needed to be a perfect sacrifice to put an end to the imperfect blood sacrifices that took place in the Old Testament. Since God is perfect, he became human so that everyone can be saved.

4) This question makes no sense.

5) Again, the trinity. It's a difficult concept to understand, and even i don't claim to understand it fully. But Jesus (the son) and God (the father) are not the same phyiscal being, but christians worship the father, son, and holy spirit as one god because they all work together in one accord.

6) Because the other "bibles" are not "bibles". They are other documents. Why do churches discard the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy?

theBishop

Agnostic · #3 2004-10-03, 02:58

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

[BHitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy?

TheBishop[/b]

Ahh the Utimate question is above.

The anwser is 42.

Social Junker · #4 2004-10-03, 04:32

Prince, you seem pro-Muslim, so why even bother?

I really don't see why Muslims attack Christianity so strongly, considering there is evidence that Muhammad did not even correctly understand Christianity's teachings. I guess it's because the religion teaches against the Trinity.

Among the world religions, Islam specifically teaches against the Trinity. Chapter four of the Koran argues, "Say not 'Trinity': desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is One God: glory be to Him: (far Exalted is He) above having a son" (4:171). Although Muhammad seems to have wrongly believed that Christians taught that the Trinity consisted of God the Father, Mary the Mother, and Jesus the Son, they reject as sinful anything being made equivalent with Allah, especially Jesus.

Perhaps we should all read about the Council of Nicea, which dealt with the issue of the Trinity.

Hexadecimal · #5 2004-10-03, 07:02

Here is my understanding of the Trinity from what I have read. All three aspects of the trinity are one being; much like marraige is the supposed creation of one new spiritual being from the souls of two separate beings. God the Father is the creator aspect of the trinity; it is the aspect that is the beginning and end of all...it's the aspect that Muslims call Allah, and the aspect that Jews and Christians do not call by name out of a reverence for the holiness of the name (IHVH is the name, most often pronounced as Yahweh, though an imperfect pronunciation of it). It is one form that Yahweh takes. From the creator aspect comes the messenger aspect; Christians believe Yeshua to be the messenger not only inspired by the divine, but divine in and of himself. The messenger's purpose in the trinity is to introduce the Spirit to the sinning masses through a perfect sacrifice meant to wash away the stains of those who accept it. The final aspect is the Spirit (or Holy Spirit if you wish.) The Spirit is the message of the Christ, recieved through acceptance of the sacrifice. The Spirit is what cleanses the body of its sins. Through this cleansing of sins, the human spirit is brought back to the Creator aspect. All of the Creator's work is perfect, and the Creator will not be in the presence of any work which has tainted itself.

Essentially; Yahweh took three forms in order to restore a tainted creation to perfection so he can be whole again. (Human souls are a part of Yahweh, but since we are tainted we cannot assimilate with the whole at death.)

I'm an atheist by the way.

---Beany--- · #6 2004-10-03, 13:49

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by princecharmant1980:

i will revert to christianity IF you answer these questions

You need a wake-up slap.

xtreem5150ahm · #7 2004-10-03, 18:21

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Hexadecimal:

The final aspect is the Spirit (or Holy Spirit if you wish.) The Spirit is the message of the Christ, recieved through acceptance of the sacrifice. The Spirit is what cleanses the body of its sins.

Wow Hex, your post was great. You have a gift for simplifying some very complex principles and also doing it very succinct.

I do disagree with the part left in quote tags above.

Basically where you said "All three aspects of the trinity are one being; much like marraige is the supposed creation of one new spiritual being from the souls of two separate beings" applies. Among other things, The Holy Spirit is the person of the Trinity that marries us to God, after Messiah's blood made atonement for our sins.

But all in all, you clearly condensed a library of teaching and commentary into a paragraph... nice job for an atheist.

Which begs the question, with your understanding, what are the things that make you not believe?

theBishop · #8 2004-10-03, 18:28

His goldfish died.

Vindicatus · #9 2004-10-03, 19:28

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by princecharmant1980:

1)Christians consider themselves monotheists

how can you be as such if you worship God his son and the holly spirit?

2)what is the holly spirit explain please ,i get different explanations from different christians?

3)if jesus is a GOD why did he dye since a GOD must be immortal ?

4)all relligions considers GOD as perfect so if GOD is perfect then he has no needs why would he need a son anyway ?

5)how can jesus be son of GOD and a GOD?

6)whay does churches discard other new testaments like the bernaba bible the first ethiopean bible and the pogmel bible all these bibles consider Jesus as a simple human being and a prophet and does not consider jesus as a god and does not believe in trinity that was created years after Jesus supposed death why only 4 are recognised while many other bibles exist.

here is the muslim version of jesus storry to understand why do i ask this:

God created humans and asked them to worship him humans after adam and eve continued to worship god then some generations worshiped planets,statutes and other stuffs GOd reminds humans to worship him alone so he sent messengers or prophets like Noah Abraham Moise etc...

God give his prophet miracles so that people will believe them

God sent Jesus to jews because they became very greedy and forgot GOd teachings

he was sent in a special way his mother was pregnant without a man (i think Christians consider Jesus the son of god because of this )

but in coran it says that God created Jesus

that's all in this special way since god can do anything GOD Is not his father but his creator even if it was done without a man

Jesus was sent to jews

GOd granted Jesus many miracles so people will believe him he could make blind see and treat lepper and even raise dead people ( this is another reason why christians think he is the son of GOD)all this miracles where actually done by GOD but with jesus hands it was a gift a miracle not Jesus real powers

Jews conspired to kill Jesus but the jew who betrayed him was punished(this is where muslims and christians differs)

GOD punished the traitor and gave him Jesus apearance and was crossed by romans instead of the real Jesus and that's what you are worshiping while GOD Raised te real Jesus to heaven where he is living in heaven and he will turn back to kill the antichrist (Dajal)

and will destroy crosses and tell people that only god should be worshiped and not him or the holly spirit he ill tell people i'm just a normal human being and i'm only a messenger my mirracles were all given to me by god i don't possess them and christians will then destory crosses and turn true monotheists (muslims)

1)I consider God to be one entity that manifests himself in different ways depending on what he intends on accomplishing.

2) The holy spirit is divine inspiration. He is always speaking to your conscience leading you by a gentle touch. The holy spirit is a still small voice.

3) We are all God. Most of us just don't know it. He did die, then rose again on the third day after taking the keys of death from satan.

4) God didn't need a son; WE did. He was a perfect sacrafice designed to give us a way around original sin. Without him no man can enter the Kingdom of heaven.

5)See question one.

6) Seems like they undermind the message he had for the jews. Those books strip him of power unto salvation.

Hope that helps.

xtreem5150ahm · #10 2004-10-03, 19:39

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

His goldfish died.

LOL...ooops, i mean, sorry Hex.

xtreem5150ahm · #11 2004-10-03, 19:46

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by princecharmant1980:

6)whay does churches discard other new testaments like the bernaba bible the first ethiopean bible and the pogmel bible all these bibles consider Jesus as a simple human being and a prophet and does not consider jesus as a god and does not believe in trinity that was created years after Jesus supposed death why only 4 are recognised while many other bibles exist.

Because they dont agree with the OT.

LostCause · #12 2004-10-03, 23:00

You are dumb. You meant "convert" not "revert". "Convert" is when you become something different, "revert" is when you go back to being something you were before...

Oi vey...

Anyways...

1)Christians consider themselves monotheists

how can you be as such if you worship God his son and the holly spirit?

I'm not a christian, and I myself don't believe in this. But, the concept is that The Father, Son, and The Holy Spirit are all just facets of a one god.

But, you probably don't know what "facets" are... Why do I even bother?

2)what is the holly spirit explain please ,i get different explanations from different christians?

The Holy Spirit is the facet of god that is personal to each person. Like the customer service floor of a coorporate building. That's the one that communicates with peoples souls.

3)if jesus is a GOD why did he dye since a GOD must be immortal ?

Jesus was supposedly the son of god - therefore part of god - born of the flesh.

4)all relligions considers GOD as perfect so if GOD is perfect then he has no needs why would he need a son anyway ?

He didn't need a son. The story goes that he sacrificed his only son to save the human race from damnation. The Jews call Jesus "the walking Torah". He represented a perfect way of living your life - the way god intended, and the christians believe that he died for our sins as an example of true faith.

5)how can jesus be son of GOD and a GOD?

Well, I personally believe this is one of the mistranslations in the bible, but just to answer the question with an answer I suppose if your fathers last name is Smith, your last name is Smith, so you're both Smiths. So, Jesus' dad was God so he was Jesus of God. Also, in the middle east it is customary to call a person Whatever ben Whatever. For example, your name may be John Doe but in the middle east you would be John ben Doe ("ben" meaning "of"). So, Jesus would've been called Jesus of God, which could've easily been misunderstood by the northern Greco-Romans.

6)whay does churches discard other new testaments like the bernaba bible the first ethiopean bible and the pogmel bible all these bibles consider Jesus as a simple human being and a prophet and does not consider jesus as a god and does not believe in trinity that was created years after Jesus supposed death why only 4 are recognised while many other bibles exist.

Because they don't believe it. That's about it.

Cheers,

Lost

Hexadecimal · #13 2004-10-04, 00:30

"Which begs the question, with your understanding, what are the things that make you not believe?"

I'm sort of an atheist by nature. I've attempted to have faith, but it creates a cognitive dissonance that sorts itself out by eliminating either my doubt or my faith; the sorting out always results in the faith dying rather than the doubt. Simply put; I'm a skeptic when it comes to any issue I consider critical, especially when I don't have any evidence to examine.

screamOaddict · #14 2004-10-04, 01:06

princecharmant1980 = moron

xtreem5150ahm · #15 2004-10-04, 04:01

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Hexadecimal:

"Which begs the question, with your understanding, what are the things that make you not believe?"

I'm sort of an atheist by nature. I've attempted to have faith, but it creates a cognitive dissonance that sorts itself out by eliminating either my doubt or my faith; the sorting out always results in the faith dying rather than the doubt. Simply put; I'm a skeptic when it comes to any issue I consider critical, especially when I don't have any evidence to examine.

Thanks for the answer...sorta makes sense since it is (sorta) opposite of mine.

i am generally skeptical. i do try to see things from others POV. but unlike you, i see evidence of God and when i dont, i (try to) chuck my doubt rather than my faith.

Oh, by the way...sorry to hear of your goldfish.

Gillibiabtiag · #16 2004-10-04, 04:11

How about this:

I'll explain to you the mysteries of life, IF you learn to spell, use grammar, express yourself in a halfway coherent form, etc.

I_Like_Traffic_Lights · #17 2004-10-04, 04:25

Why would I care if you are christian or not?

Why do I bother posting a reply to a hostile style message from a person obviously set in thier ways and unmoving to any arguement?

Why do posts like this get the most responses despite the fact that it's been done to death?

Why am I still here posting when there's life to be lived?

inquisitor_11 · #18 2004-10-04, 08:41

mmm... could be wrong... but for a muslim "conversion" is seen as reversion- people are all created as Muslims, and to persue Islam is seen as a reversion.

I think.

theBishop · #19 2004-10-04, 15:23

Yeah, you know who else thinks that?: Mormons.

Snoopy · #20 2004-10-04, 15:41

This thread is stupid.

LostCause · #21 2004-10-04, 19:37

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by I_Like_Traffic_Lights:

Why would I care if you are christian or not?

Why do I bother posting a reply to a hostile style message from a person obviously set in thier ways and unmoving to any arguement?

Why do posts like this get the most responses despite the fact that it's been done to death?

Why am I still here posting when there's life to be lived?

Good question.

Cheers,

Lost

princecharmant1980 · #22 2004-10-04, 22:20

you don't even agree on the definition of trinity that's why i asked in the first place because every christian has a different definition of trinity and yes i'm a moron and i'm bad at grammar, english etc.... so what ?

at least i can communicate

princecharmant1980 · #23 2004-10-04, 22:33

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy:

This thread is stupid.

of course as usual you are the most intelligent and smart guy in TOTSE and you always regard others as stupid i think i'll better get used to it!

theBishop · #24 2004-10-04, 22:49

Who has a different definition? Everyone agrees that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are different facets of one god. Where we disagree is in how it actually works. That's part of the reason there are a lot of denominations. Either way, your salvation is not dependent on your interpretation of the trinity.

carbo · #25 2004-10-05, 01:43

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by princecharmant1980:

4)all relligions considers GOD as perfect so if GOD is perfect then he has no needs why would he need a son anyway ?

Although the Lord may be perfect, not all of his creations are. He sent his Son to die for our sins. If not for this, no mortal soul would ever have the chance to go to heaven. He died for our sake and for our salvation.

inquisitor_11 · #26 2004-10-05, 05:09

So are you going to revert now?

Snoopy · #27 2004-10-07, 18:03

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by princecharmant1980:

of course as usual you are the most intelligent and smart guy in TOTSE and you always regard others as stupid i think i'll better get used to it!

I'm 12 times bigger than God. Snoopy Akbar!

Mostasteless421 · #28 2004-10-07, 20:47

THE BIBLE explains pretty much everything.

Nescio · #29 2004-10-08, 01:16

Gods is laughing at you all. Every idea everyone has put forward is a human fabrication based on primitive monkey superstitions about a universe we cant possibly understand. God and religion in general are currently and have been for all of human history the X in an equation which only works because X is whatever it takes to balance the equation, much like 'dark matter' and Phlogiston.

blondlot · #30 2004-10-08, 09:40

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Nescio:

Gods is laughing at you all. Every idea everyone has put forward is a human fabrication based on primitive monkey superstitions about a universe we cant possibly understand. God and religion in general are currently and have been for all of human history the X in an equation which only works because X is whatever it takes to balance the equation, much like 'dark matter' and Phlogiston.

what sort of laugh does god have? Is it a deep belly laugh, a friendly chuckle, maybe a high pitched cackle? I think it might be one of those weird ones where he laughs through his nose so it doesn't make much noise.

i ate your family · #31 2004-10-08, 11:44

fuck religio-n that is a bunch of bull shit

bite_me · #32 2004-10-08, 12:16

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy:

I'm 12 times bigger than God. Snoopy Akbar!

haha

princecharmant1980 · #33 2004-10-08, 22:19

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy:

I'm 12 times bigger than God. Snoopy Akbar!

hahahahahahahaha

your not immortal i wonder what you will tell god while your burning in HELL

inquisitor_11 · #34 2004-10-09, 00:43

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by inquisitor_11:

So are you going to revert now?

*bump*

Shiantar · #35 2004-10-09, 01:25

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by inquisitor_11:

*bump*

I don't think he is.

First off, the questions he asked can't be answered to an arbitrary level of satisfaction so the exercise was rather meaningless.

Second of all, I recall that apostasy is punishable by death in Islam. We wouldn't want Prince to get himself killed, now would we?

princecharmant1980 · #36 2004-10-10, 23:26

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Shiantar:

I don't think he is.

First off, the questions he asked can't be answered to an arbitrary level of satisfaction so the exercise was rather meaningless.

Second of all, I recall that apostasy is punishable by death in Islam. We wouldn't want Prince to get himself killed, now would we?

some moroccans converted to christianity nd they are still living to bad Sharia is not aplied in morocco

inquisitor_11 · #37 2004-10-11, 01:17

Is sharia law actually fairly faithful to the Koran and the way that Islam has traditionally been understood (i.e. for all years <1900's)?

Edit: Left out question mark

[This message has been edited by inquisitor_11 (edited 10-11-2004).]

Viraljimmy · #38 2004-10-11, 12:58

Christianity is easy to understand once you realize it's all bullshit.

xtreem5150ahm · #39 2004-10-11, 13:25

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Viraljimmy:

Christianity is easy to understand once you realize it's all bullshit.

Lets start with the bible...show me contridictions. Prove to me that it is a lie.

Show me the bullshit.

Fanglekai · #40 2004-10-11, 19:06

http:../en/religion/chr.../contradk.html

shuu · #41 2004-10-12, 03:09

"The pious Dr. Parkhurst. . . proves, from the authority of Diodorus Siculus, Varro, St. Augustine, etc., that the Iao, Jehova, or ieue, or ie of the Jews was the Jove of the Latins and Etruscans..." "YHWH/IEUE was additionally the Egyptian Sun God Ra: Ra was the father in heaven, who has the title of 'Huhi' the eternal, from which the Hebrews derived the name 'Ihuh.'" "Jewish mystical tradition viewed the original Jehova as an androgyne, his/her name compounded as Jah (jod) and the pre-hebraic name of Eve, Havah, or Hawah, rendered he-vau-he in Hebrew letters. The four letters together made the sacred tetragrammaton, YHWH, the secret name of God..."

Zeus (jove) and promethius was a story of a rebellious god banned from heaven for bringing humanity knowledge.

"In spite of the monotheistic endeavors of the compilers and editors of the book of Genesis, struggling to proclaim faith in a sole diety in a world that in those days believed in many gods, there remain numerous slip-ups where the biblical narrative speaks of gods in the plural. The very term for 'diety,'%20%28when%20the%20lord%20is%20not%20specifically%20named%20as%20yaweh%29,%20is%20not%20the%20singular%20el%20but%20the%20plural%20elohim._25b2"

Good and evil duality is taken from Zoroastrianism. This is where the fundamentally vedic beleif of salvation sprung from, Ahura mazda for 'good' and Angra Manyu for evil, there is constant conflict between the two dieties like between 'jehova' and Satan.

Ahura Mazda had twin sons "Angra Manyu" (evil) and "Spenta Mainyu" (good). A trinity predating christianity.

Mithra was a savior, was announced by prophets, whose birth took place in a cave (many accounts of the birth of jebus claim that he also was born in a cave), and the appearance of an exceptional star. Mithra would later supplant Vishnu, who in pre-Zoroastrianism Vedism had been the world's savior.

The Atrahis story, the Enuma Elish, the flood epic of gilgamesh, are the stories genisis rips off which predate judeo/christianity by a thousand years or more.

The code of Hammurabi is what the ten commandments are stolen from.

The Un-Nammu code, the Hittite code, the Middle Assyrian code, the neo babylonian code, all predate judeao/christianity and resemble the ten commandments closely.

Proverbs is stolen from; the teachings of Ahiqur, The Teachings of Am-en-ern-ope, The Teachings of Ptah-Hotep, Ptah-Hotep also the basis for the book of eclesiastes and sirach. Egyptian Love Songs are what solomons love songs rip off. Genisis, Daniel and Kings steal from The Visions of Nefertiti.

The Story of Joseph and Potiphar's wife; Genesis Chapter 39, is stolen from The Story of Anubis and Bata.

birth of moses steals from

Birth of Sargon and Birth of Horus.

Psalms is a rip off of; The Hymn to the Aton, The Stories of Ba'al and Anat,The Lament for Ur. Joshua steals from The El Amarna Letters, The Stele of Merneptah. Stolen writings in the biblical book of judges are The Story of Aqhat

The Diary of Wen-Amon

The Gezer Almanac. Samuel and Kings contains the material of, The Mari Prophecies

The Stele of Mesha

The Karatepe Inscription

The Annals of Shalmaneser III

The Black Obelisk of Shalmaneser III

The Annals of Tiglath-Pileser III

The Annals of Sargon II

The Siloam Inscription

The Yavne-Yam Inscription

The Lachlish Letters

The Arad Ostraca

The Annals of Sennacherib

The Annals of Nebuchadnezzar II

Ezra and Nehemiah steals from The Cylinder of Cyrus.

stolen stories and writings in the biblical books of Job and Ecclesiastes:

The Story of Keret

The Sufferer and the Soul

The Farmer and the Courts

The Sufferer and the Friend

That's the old testament, I'll have a crack at the new testament later.