When your Founding Hero is a Victim

[Tabiba]

I was brought up protestant, and currently live in a catholic society. So i hear a lot about jesus dying for my sins.

But what did his act of dying do for me? Was there some inca blood god who demanded the sacrifice of one prophet, or else he'd consume human lives for 2,000 years to follow?

So basically, according to christianity, jesus heard straight from his Father that he'd soon die in a horrible way.

Did he leave?

Did he go spread love elsewhere?

Did he live to fight another day?

No.

He allowed himself to be captured and totured and killed (not knowing that he would be risen from the grave after that, his Father kindly left that part out).

And so, although you could never call him a coward, Jesus was a Victim. And all of christianity is based on his act of martyrdom, throwing away his precious life for absolutely no good value.

We are supposed to respect this? What ever happened to being a fighter, a hero, one who values his life (and not the AFTERLIFE) above all else and is willing to fight for it?

He died for my sins? No, he just died, which to me, IS a sin.

i don't know but mabey it was that he had to accept the words of his father and know that god would do what's best for him in the end?

He was the 'sacrificial lamb' to atone for all of man's sins. But! if he came back to life, then what good did it do? And, if he died for my sins, and not loving Jesus is a sin, then even if I'm wrong about christianity, then I'm covered. The bible contradicts itself so damn much I don't see how people act like it's holy.

wtf?

Jesus had to scarifice himself for our sins. he rose from the dead because he conquered death. I dont think you need to be christian to go to heavn its just eaiser being chirstian but as long as you live a good life you shoudl be ok.

[SEN D-F]

Dying is a sin?

quote:Originally posted by Lucky:

Jesus had to scarifice himself for our sins. he rose from the dead because he conquered death. I dont think you need to be christian to go to heavn its just eaiser being chirstian but as long as you live a good life you shoudl be ok.

You just keep on thinking that. See you in hell (from heaven).

Yeah. No Christian today follows the actual teachings of Christ.

[Tyrant]

Agreed.

I agree with Tabiba. A person who did not value strength like a warrior should, who preached to be poor in spirit, to be chaste, to be a lamb without voice in the hands of executioners, is no icon or hero to me.

The fact that he did so only to escape death after three days only deepens my disrespect for Jesus. As the Voluspá states, "Many things are known by the Wise. They foresee many things: the decline of the world and the end of the Aesir." And as the words of Skirnir state, "The length of my life and the day of my death were fated long ago."

I would much rather (and, in fact, do) hail a warrior over a corpse any moment of the day.

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

Agreed.

I agree with Tabiba. A person who did not value strength like a warrior should, who preached to be poor in spirit, to be chaste, to be a lamb without voice in the hands of executioners, is no icon or hero to me.

The fact that he did so only to escape death after three days only deepens my disrespect for Jesus. As the Voluspá states, "Many things are known by the Wise. They foresee many things: the decline of the world and the end of the Aesir." And as the words of Skirnir state, "The length of my life and the day of my death were fated long ago."

I would much rather (and, in fact, do) hail a warrior over a corpse any moment of the day.

I appologize for any thread in which I called you a Christian, or ascribed to you one of their stereotypes. Well said.

quote:Originally posted by SARDONICPILLOW:

i don't know but mabey it was that he had to accept the words of his father and know that god would do what's best for him in the end?

MOTHERFUCKING YES! I HAVE BEEN UNBANNED FINALLY! MAN! MY GOD REALLY CAN BEAT THE PHECIES OUT OF YOURS!



[This message has been edited by UndefinedMinded (edited 04-03-2004).]

what do you have against me?

[Tyrant]

SurahAhriman:

Hahaha, no need for apologies, friend. And thank you kindly.

SST

[Tabiba]

quote:Originally posted by SEN D-F:

Dying is a sin?

No, but throwing your life away IS.

What kind of a father would send his son off to be brutally executed? One that loves His Creations more? (hmm, chosing work over family)

"Trust me Jesus, all you need to do is die."

And what's the point in creating a society with free will? So God can sit back with the popcorn and let the spectacle begin?

Christianity puts faith in god and in words. Whatever happened to having faith in yourself?

Judas was a bad guy because he was a realist ("Jesus take off, you are outnumbered! Dying will serve no purpose!") and doubting Thomas was looked down upon because he needed so see and feel for himself.

So what is the message in the religion? Faith is blind, and not only must you believe blindly, but don't try to reason it out!

right first of i dnt have faith ive just decided to argue in jesus's favour for once.

Jesus although the son of god was not just that. jesus was also 'god' not a personification of god or a messenger but god him/herself (hate being politically correct, i get an alergic reaction) so he knew he would be ressurected and knew what his death would achive (attonement for all sins). so he was only a victim in a very limited sense as he knew what his sacrifice would bring. another word for someone who sacrifices themself for the greater good is hero (or sucker depending on your general mood).

its about the symbolism of the event. pretty much everything christian is a symbol for something.

quote:Originally posted by Tabiba:

No, but throwing your life away IS.

What kind of a father would send his son off to be brutally executed? One that loves His Creations more? (hmm, chosing work over family)

"Trust me Jesus, all you need to do is die."

And what's the point in creating a society with free will? So God can sit back with the popcorn and let the spectacle begin?

Christianity puts faith in god and in words. Whatever happened to having faith in yourself?

Judas was a bad guy because he was a realist ("Jesus take off, you are outnumbered! Dying will serve no purpose!") and doubting Thomas was looked down upon because he needed so see and feel for himself.

So what is the message in the religion? Faith is blind, and not only must you believe blindly, but don't try to reason it out!

The lesson with Thomas was supposed to be that if you do doubt, you will find proof. He's an allegory to point at as precedent.